Generations

[Monker]

There are only 3 songs off Generations that I like.

Faith in the heartland
The place in your heart
Knowing that you love me

Two of those I prefer sung by a different vocalist.

THEY WANA BEWIEVE SOMEFIN WEEL

STEEL DEYRE SIRCHING

KEEPIN THE FAIT IN THE HAHTWAND TONIGHT

I agree...Augeri sounds far better...even with the horrible recording, I still prefer his version.

[Red13JoePa]

There are only 3 songs off Generations that I like.

Faith in the heartland
The place in your heart
Knowing that you love me

Two of those I prefer sung by a different vocalist.

THEY WANA BEWIEVE SOMEFIN WEEL

STEEL DEYRE SIRCHING

KEEPIN THE FAIT IN THE HAHTWAND TONIGHT

Nice total exaggeration.

Come on.

[Rick]

Some good songs, but sonically it sounds like it was recorded in a bathroom. I have audience recorded bootlegs that sound clearer.

It's not as bad as all that, IMO...I've never had any complaints about the sound.

Coming from a musician, such as yourself, that's a statement I didn't expect. I think that album sounds very muddy and one dimensional. I love quite a few tracks on it though.

[slucero]

Some good songs, but sonically it sounds like it was recorded in a bathroom. I have audience recorded bootlegs that sound clearer.

It's not as bad as all that, IMO...I've never had any complaints about the sound.

Yes it is. The way they produced this album makes it unlistenable for me. If it had better production, I'd like it a LOT more. It is the worst produced album Journey has ever released.

I think the production is ok.. the MIX however - sucks donkey gonads..

The vocals sounds like they were phoned in. By phoned in I mean he called up Neal and played a cassette over the phone and Neal held the phone up to another recorder. There is so much hiss and crap that it's pathetic.

Whether that is the mix or production, or whatever....it sounds horrible.

It's not "whatever" dude... if i you don't understand the recording process... making stupid fucking generalizations only makes you sound stupid. People work REALLY hard at doing this and still fuck it up.

production = tracking, and no band of Journey's caliber will track shitty... tracking is all about getting the source sound recorded as it sounds FROM THE SOURCE, as sonically accurate as possible... There is no permanently affecting the sound at all in tracking - no reverb, delays, or EQ.. that is all done during the mixing stage.

mixing = mixing is likely where the problems happened... likely because the mix environment was not accurate... so what they heard as they mixed is not "true". The likely culprit is a un-tuned mixing environment.

mastering = is another whole mixing process in and of itself... for which the mixing definition also applies...


Neal's even commented on how the Generations mix got away from them...

[Pelata]

Some good songs, but sonically it sounds like it was recorded in a bathroom. I have audience recorded bootlegs that sound clearer.

It's not as bad as all that, IMO...I've never had any complaints about the sound.

Coming from a musician, such as yourself, that's a statement I didn't expect. I think that album sounds very muddy and one dimensional. I love quite a few tracks on it though.

I guess it's a perspective thing. When I get a new record, I pay attention to the songs/melodies, etc. That's why I buy the albums. I don't buy them because I am a fan of brilliant production.

I see so many opinions online when it comes to the sound of albums. Present company excluded (so I don't get lynched ), most of them have no idea what they're talking about. I've been making albums and writing songs since I was 20 years old. I've made records that sound bad and records that sound good. I know when something sounds amazing, when it sounds decent, and when it sounds bad (personal taste aside...sometimes I think a record sounds good but don't like the drum tones or something for example).

I see people make comments like "unlistenable" and "pure shit" about records that, honestly, sound good. They may not sound amazing or mind blowing, but they sound good. Records like What If..., Worlds Collide, Generations & several others just get ram-rodded because of how they sound and, to put it bluntly, I just think some people need something to complain about. Most of the time, it would be better to just stop at "I don't like it" because, in reality, that's all they know. They don't know why, they have never made a record, they don't know what goes into it.

They don't have to like it, that's personal perogative and you can't please everybody. But when it turns into "sounds like shit", "the mix is muddy", "unlistenable", "I could mix a better album coming in off the street" (I've seen that one), I just have to laugh. That's like me walking into a house, and then making comments about how the construction of the house was shitty just because I did not like the paint color. All I know is I don't like the paint, I don't know a thing about construction. Would I not sound silly making that comment?

Now, I realize that there are people in the world who are audio-engineers with ultra-perfect pitch and work in acoustically perfect rooms with pristine million dollar gear. Then they go home and listen to music on CD through Bose surround sound systems in their acoustically tuned home theaters and can detect the slightest fluxuation in tone or sound or tune...and I'd hate to be one of those people. I would think that would affect my enjoyment of music because I would always be obsessing about the EQ of the keyboards or that it rose 2db in the verse or that I didn't like the "S" sound in the vocals. That's the kind of guy you want producing you, but not reviewing an album.

Most people, however, are not that. They're regular people who know what they like and don't like. The internet, however, has turned us all into "armchair engineers" and rock critics. We like to pick apart things we know nothing about. Just say you don't like it. That cannot be contested and nobody can fault that.

That said, while the sound on Generations might be a little rough around the edges, it's certainly worlds away from "unlistenable shit". That is just ludicrous. If your ears are that sensitive, then you have my sympathy...I don't know how you enjoy anything. The instruments are audible, nothing too loud or too low, a large chunk of it sounds almost live, it's got good, warm "thump" in the car...I'm puzzled. It's OK that others don't like the sound, I just don't get what's not to like. It's not perfect, but it's not basement, jambox, cassette demo either.

[kgdjpubs]

Some good songs, but sonically it sounds like it was recorded in a bathroom. I have audience recorded bootlegs that sound clearer.

It's not as bad as all that, IMO...I've never had any complaints about the sound.

Coming from a musician, such as yourself, that's a statement I didn't expect. I think that album sounds very muddy and one dimensional. I love quite a few tracks on it though.

I guess it's a perspective thing. When I get a new record, I pay attention to the songs/melodies, etc. That's why I buy the albums. I don't buy them because I am a fan of brilliant production.

I see so many opinions online when it comes to the sound of albums. Present company excluded (so I don't get lynched ), most of them have no idea what they're talking about. I've been making albums and writing songs since I was 20 years old. I've made records that sound bad and records that sound good. I know when something sounds amazing, when it sounds decent, and when it sounds bad (personal taste aside...sometimes I think a record sounds good but don't like the drum tones or something for example).

I see people make comments like "unlistenable" and "pure shit" about records that, honestly, sound good. They may not sound amazing or mind blowing, but they sound good. Records like What If..., Worlds Collide, Generations & several others just get ram-rodded because of how they sound and, to put it bluntly, I just think some people need something to complain about. Most of the time, it would be better to just stop at "I don't like it" because, in reality, that's all they know. They don't know why, they have never made a record, they don't know what goes into it.

They don't have to like it, that's personal perogative and you can't please everybody. But when it turns into "sounds like shit", "the mix is muddy", "unlistenable", "I could mix a better album coming in off the street" (I've seen that one), I just have to laugh. That's like me walking into a house, and then making comments about how the construction of the house was shitty just because I did not like the paint color. All I know is I don't like the paint, I don't know a thing about construction. Would I not sound silly making that comment?

Now, I realize that there are people in the world who are audio-engineers with ultra-perfect pitch and work in acoustically perfect rooms with pristine million dollar gear. Then they go home and listen to music on CD through Bose surround sound systems in their acoustically tuned home theaters and can detect the slightest fluxuation in tone or sound or tune...and I'd hate to be one of those people. I would think that would affect my enjoyment of music because I would always be obsessing about the EQ of the keyboards or that it rose 2db in the verse or that I didn't like the "S" sound in the vocals. That's the kind of guy you want producing you, but not reviewing an album.

Most people, however, are not that. They're regular people who know what they like and don't like. The internet, however, has turned us all into "armchair engineers" and rock critics. We like to pick apart things we know nothing about. Just say you don't like it. That cannot be contested and nobody can fault that.

That said, while the sound on Generations might be a little rough around the edges, it's certainly worlds away from "unlistenable shit". That is just ludicrous. If your ears are that sensitive, then you have my sympathy...I don't know how you enjoy anything. The instruments are audible, nothing too loud or too low, a large chunk of it sounds almost live, it's got good, warm "thump" in the car...I'm puzzled. It's OK that others don't like the sound, I just don't get what's not to like. It's not perfect, but it's not basement, jambox, cassette demo either.

Agreed. There are FAR worse albums out there. Try being a Magnum fan and listening to singer Bob Catley's Spirit of Man album if you want to listen to an album ruined by the production. That's one album where you have a legit complaint, and the sad thing is that the songs are pretty decent. The majority of the other albums, you may not like the way they sound, but they are certainly not butchered by any chance of the word.

for your audio "enjoyment"...
Bob Catley - Heart of Stone (opening track from Spirit of Man) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u56CFCVzAco

here endeth the lesson!

[AR]

As listeners, not musicians, both my brother and I had the same opinion of Generations. It sounds muffled.

[yandtguy]

There are only 4 songs I like on the album:
Faith In The Heartland (even though the vocal phrasing in the chorus is annoying)
A Better Life
Knowing That You Love Me
Never Too Late To Change

The rest is filler at best. Also, by this point, I had developed Steve Augeri fatigue. Deen out sung him at every opportunity.

Greg

[Pelata]

There are only 4 songs I like on the album:
Faith In The Heartland (even though the vocal phrasing in the chorus is annoying)
A Better Life
Knowing That You Love Me
Never Too Late To Change

The rest is filler at best. Also, by this point, I had developed Steve Augeri fatigue. Deen out sung him at every opportunity.

Greg

Wow. No accounting for personal taste, I guess. I do agree that Deen sounds fantastic and I love it when he sings. But I definitely do NOT agree that he "out sung" Steve Augeri. Steve sounded great on Generations. I also don't agree that there was that much filler...the only real and true filler to me was Ross' tune...that could have been left off and nobody's feelings would have been hurt.

[Archetype]

The sonic quality of Generations is acceptable. If you want "unlistenable shit" listen to Metallica's St. Anger.

[Monker]

Some good songs, but sonically it sounds like it was recorded in a bathroom. I have audience recorded bootlegs that sound clearer.

It's not as bad as all that, IMO...I've never had any complaints about the sound.

Yes it is. The way they produced this album makes it unlistenable for me. If it had better production, I'd like it a LOT more. It is the worst produced album Journey has ever released.

I think the production is ok.. the MIX however - sucks donkey gonads..

The vocals sounds like they were phoned in. By phoned in I mean he called up Neal and played a cassette over the phone and Neal held the phone up to another recorder. There is so much hiss and crap that it's pathetic.

Whether that is the mix or production, or whatever....it sounds horrible.

It's not "whatever" dude... if i you don't understand the recording process... making stupid fucking generalizations only makes you sound stupid. People work REALLY hard at doing this and still fuck it up.

Yes, it is 'whatever' because I didn't want to get into that argument about WHY.

production = tracking, and no band of Journey's caliber will track shitty... tracking is all about getting the source sound recorded as it sounds FROM THE SOURCE, as sonically accurate as possible... There is no permanently affecting the sound at all in tracking - no reverb, delays, or EQ.. that is all done during the mixing stage.

And, that is what I am saying. The vocals sound like they were dubbed on analog tape 10 times and have all of that funky degradation that goes along with it. It does NOT sound like they were taken from a first generation source....AT ALL.

[Greg]

The sonic quality of Generations is acceptable. If you want "unlistenable shit" listen to Metallica's St. Anger.

When I first got St. Anger, I was pretty pissed off at Metallica. The drums sounded like Lars hitting on oil pans, and the guitar riffs just seemed like a bunch of loops hooked together - kind of like something you could do in some cheap audio software. The more I listened to it, the more I started liking the title track and the song Frantic. The rest of it I can care less for.

But, as far as production wise, they really missed the boat on Death Magnetic. GREAT, GREAT album, minus the Unforgiven III, but the production stinks.

[ForceInfinity]

My big beef with Generations aside from the sound seeming muffled, muddy, etc had to do with "A Better Life" For some reason, it seemed like on the CD I had, there were a couple weird skips that took place on the song. I thought, "okay, I somehow scratched the CD". Girlfriend had a CD of her own, played the same song and heard the skip at the exact same place. Not sure if it was an issue with the Reno/Tahoe batch or whatever.

As to the songs off of Generations, it begins to lose me as soon as we get to Butterfly and Believe. And from the Red 13 CD, I absolutely hated Time. It has a really annoying chorus that I found as grating as Frontiers (another song by Journey I just cannot stand).

Faith in the Heartland, well I like the Revelation version just a bit better though I liked the soaring guitars after the last chorus from Generations better.

[Greg]

My big beef with Generations aside from the sound seeming muffled, muddy, etc had to do with "A Better Life" For some reason, it seemed like on the CD I had, there were a couple weird skips that took place on the song. I thought, "okay, I somehow scratched the CD". Girlfriend had a CD of her own, played the same song and heard the skip at the exact same place. Not sure if it was an issue with the Reno/Tahoe batch or whatever.

As to the songs off of Generations, it begins to lose me as soon as we get to Butterfly and Believe. And from the Red 13 CD, I absolutely hated Time. It has a really annoying chorus that I found as grating as Frontiers (another song by Journey I just cannot stand).

Faith in the Heartland, well I like the Revelation version just a bit better though I liked the soaring guitars after the last chorus from Generations better.

You guys that are talking about the muffled, muddy sound, did you all get your CDs from the concerts? I got mine from the store (probably Wal-Mart) and there's nothing wrong with the production at all. In fact, sonically wise, it sounds better than my Arrival CD. I'm not playing it on any big, overly expensive stereo system either. I haven't heard any weird skips on A Better Life. I'm listening to the album as we speak (because I want to see if I can hear these "skips" you speak of.) I'm just wondering if the CDs that were passed out at the concerts were "demo" copies, kind of like what Evanescence sold at their concerts?

Have to disagree with you on a couple of points. I love the Frontiers song. Maybe it's more because of the nostalgic feeling I get listening to that song (because it reminds me of 1980's technology for some strange reason) but I absolutely love that song! Love the chorus, love everything about the song. Of course, like most people know, the Frontiers album is what got me into Journey in the first place. Also, on "Faith", I think the original version of the song is much better than the remake on Revelations. That repetitive guitar riff Schon had on the Revelation version is down right annoying to me. His original riff flowed through the song much smoother IMO. Also, while I did like the last part where Arnel took it up on the "Give me something to believe in", over all, I didn't like his version at all.

[The_Noble_Cause]

My big beef with Generations aside from the sound seeming muffled, muddy, etc had to do with "A Better Life" For some reason, it seemed like on the CD I had, there were a couple weird skips that took place on the song.

Never had that problem. My complaint about "A Better Life" is that it's too long - and not in a twisty, turny, ambitious Eclipse sorta way. It just sorta outstays its welcome for a minute or so. This is where a good producer comes in. I know Elson was involved in Escape, but by the time of Generations, it seems he was past his prime.

[Red13JoePa]

Arrival sounds more muffled to me than Generations.

[Eric]

Arrival sounds more muffled to me than Generations.

The bass is really muddy on Arrival, but the vocals are phoned in on Generations. Most of these things are mostly only noticeable on better audio systems. I can tell you that Eclipse sounds amazing on my good system, but in a typical car stereo its really no different than anything else.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Arrival sounds more muffled to me than Generations.

Same here. Interestingly, World Gone Wild, which was recorded later and added to Arrival, sounds a little more sharp than some of the tracks. TBF and Revelation sound pretty good. Gotta give Shirley credit for that.

[Saint John]

TBF and Revelation sound pretty good. Gotta give Shirley credit for that.

I'm with you on TBF, but I found revelation a little lacking. I wish Kalmusky would have help produce Revelation and given it Eclipse's sonic. What do you think of Eclipse's sonic?

[The_Noble_Cause]

TBF and Revelation sound pretty good. Gotta give Shirley credit for that.

I'm with you on TBF, but I found revelation a little lacking. I wish Kalmusky would have help produce Revelation and given it Eclipse's sonic. What do you think of Eclipse's sonic?

Best produced cd since TBF. Wish they had taken even more time to work on it, but I can't complain.

[slucero]

Some good songs, but sonically it sounds like it was recorded in a bathroom. I have audience recorded bootlegs that sound clearer.

It's not as bad as all that, IMO...I've never had any complaints about the sound.

Yes it is. The way they produced this album makes it unlistenable for me. If it had better production, I'd like it a LOT more. It is the worst produced album Journey has ever released.

I think the production is ok.. the MIX however - sucks donkey gonads..

The vocals sounds like they were phoned in. By phoned in I mean he called up Neal and played a cassette over the phone and Neal held the phone up to another recorder. There is so much hiss and crap that it's pathetic.

Whether that is the mix or production, or whatever....it sounds horrible.

It's not "whatever" dude... if i you don't understand the recording process... making stupid fucking generalizations only makes you sound stupid. People work REALLY hard at doing this and still fuck it up.

Yes, it is 'whatever' because I didn't want to get into that argument about WHY.

production = tracking, and no band of Journey's caliber will track shitty... tracking is all about getting the source sound recorded as it sounds FROM THE SOURCE, as sonically accurate as possible... There is no permanently affecting the sound at all in tracking - no reverb, delays, or EQ.. that is all done during the mixing stage.

And, that is what I am saying. The vocals sound like they were dubbed on analog tape 10 times and have all of that funky degradation that goes along with it. It does NOT sound like they were taken from a first generation source....AT ALL.

Then you simply must like making yourself look like a fucking idiot on purpose... so go on with your tard self then...


Your reference point, what you hear, is the mix. That very mix is where a pristine, "first generation source" can get fucked up beyond belief... and you, the end listener, would never fucking know.. because all you hear is the end result.

Which is why posted (and as Neal alluded to)... it likely got fucked up in the mix...

The mix.

[FishinMagician]

What the heck? A couple years ago, nobody would touch Generations with a 10 foot pole. Now every either likes it minus a few tracks or likes it but isn't thrilled witht the sound quality but still likes it overall.

[Ritchie]

What the heck? A couple years ago, nobody would touch Generations with a 10 foot pole. Now every either likes it minus a few tracks or likes it but isn't thrilled witht the sound quality but still likes it overall.

They all suffer from PTED(Post Traumatic Eclipse Disorder).

[Gideon]

A couple years ago, nobody would touch Generations with a 10 foot pole.

I'd kindly ask you to leave my penis out of this.

[yulog]

What the heck? A couple years ago, nobody would touch Generations with a 10 foot pole. Now every either likes it minus a few tracks or likes it but isn't thrilled witht the sound quality but still likes it overall.

Its always been like this , you just had a few here campaign that it was bad because it represented the time when Augeri was replaced. It's just like Eclipse, you have the same 10 people putting it up on a pedestal so if you were to go into a post about eclipse you would think that everyone loves it , until you realize that its the same 10 people that are the only ones who keep saying the cd is great.(which really doesn't carry as much weight). The sound quality was the only real issue with this cd , as soon as you turn it up it quickly distorts. Aside from that there are some great songs on this cd.

I don't get why some people say their cds don't have the sound problem, were they all not made from the same source? How could a store bought from walmart or frontiers sound any better than the freebie?

[The_Noble_Cause]

The sound quality was the only real issue with this cd , as soon as you turn it up it quickly distorts. Aside from that there are some great songs on this cd.

So, Ross singing a ZZ Top tune is not an issue? Easily the most dismal release of the post-Perry era. Some good tracks, but Neal was mostly MIA and it shows. The feedback toward Generations was scathing in large part because fans had waited so long for a proper follow-up to Arrival. They wouldn't get one until Revelation.

And why on earth would they leave "Never Too Late" off the initial pressing of the cd? What a killer tune. Dumb, dumb, dumb.

[yulog]

The sound quality was the only real issue with this cd , as soon as you turn it up it quickly distorts. Aside from that there are some great songs on this cd.

So, Ross singing a ZZ Top tune is not an issue? Easily the most dismal release of the post-Perry era. Some good tracks, but Neal was mostly MIA and it shows. The feedback toward Generations was scathing in large part because fans had waited so long for a proper follow-up to Arrival. They wouldn't get one until Revelation.

And why on earth would they leave "Never Too Late" off the initial pressing of the cd? What a killer tune. Dumb, dumb, dumb.

Sure there were issues with the cd . There are issues with each cd post Perry, and some with Perry, but at least half the songs on Generations are solid songs, and have replay value to them, which can't be said for Eclipse. Considering Augeri didn't get to sing on 4-5 songs on the cd and Pineda got to sing on all of the songs on his cd thats pretty impressive. 5 of the 8 songs by Augeri are keepers , both of Deans songs are keepers, and the rest are a wash , 7 out of 13 is a good cd, some may agree its better than good.

[The_Noble_Cause]

...but at least half the songs on Generations are solid songs, and have replay value to them, which can't be said for Eclipse.

Not even in the same class. Generations is a throwaway album, which is best left forgotten. Eclipse is solid from start to finish.

[slucero]

one suffers from poorly mixed songs... one from poorly written songs...

[yulog]

one suffers from poorly mixed songs... one from poorly written songs...

Thats a more fair assessment, still I can listen to the better written songs on Generations easier than the poorly written songs that sonically are better on Eclipse.