WHO's primarily in charge of setlist decisions?

[Red13JoePa]

Eclipse blows, that's why it didn't sell. It's not the 'lack of promotion' it's just a shitty record.

I just don't get some of you people. How can anyone say Eclipse blows?

You know why.

Because of ex singers.

[SF-Dano]

I don't think I have ever seen a fan base pigeonhole a band quite like Journey's does. They try to give something new and slightly different and it is blasted and/or ignored. Then they go out and play the same old same old, and guess what..........the fan base blasts them for it.

Eclipse was a damn good album. Maybe not the Journey you want to hear (pigeonholed), but there is nothing wrong with the musicianship on that record. Not saying everyone has to like it, surely not. But to be so persistent in constantly ripping this band and the album is ridiculous and a waste of time. It is not our (fans) band. It is their band, and I for one am glad they reached just a little bit to do something just a little different.

[slucero]

sonically... its a great album....

musically... not so great.

[jestor92]

Here's my rundown on the album:

City of Hope: Good song musically, the lyrics try to have an anthem sound to it, but it doesn't go anywhere because the chorus is terrible. Then they decided to bring the Soul SirkUS song "Praise" into it. Totally disjointed and way to long. Sadly IMO one of the better tracks on the album.

Edge Of the Moment: Another good song musically, I don't like Arnel's vocal delivery on the song and the lyrics are at best OK.

Chain Of Love: Best song of the album, best song they've put out with Arnel as the vocalist.

Tantra: Just plain outright bad attempt at mixing poetry with music. The music sucks and the lyrics aren't good at all. It to me sounds like they were trying to create a religious Open Arms.

Anything Is Possible: Generic by the books Journey song that would be better if it had better lyrics. Song is about 2 minutes too long.

Resonate: I actually kind of like the way Arnel sounds on this track because he's not trying to hard to give the fans the Perry sound vocally because he's singing in a natural lower key. The chorus lyrics are awful, musically it's alright.

She's A Mystery: It's a different song that has grown on me. When I first heard it I hated the first 4 mins of the song, now I kind of like the song. I don't like Arnel's vocal work for the first 4 mins of the song until it gets to the rocking part because in the first part of the song his vocals sound forced, while in the rocking section of the song he let's it rip and it sounds natural and great (Arnel's forced sounding vocals are one of the main reasons I haven't liked the last two records...the other reason is because Cain's lyrics have sucked).

Human Feel: Just totally sucks, lyrically and musically just horrible.

Ritual: Another song that is weak musically and the lyrics...suck (Seeing a trend). Oh and I don't like Arnel's vocals on this.

To Whom It May Concern: Hahahaha Arnel writes HAHAHAHA this is bad. This song sounds like something a high school band would write to try to sound like Journey and get laid. I don't want to say anything else because I don't want to get flamed to badly.

Someone: By the time I've gotten down this far in the album, I've usually just switched albums to something good. Another generic boring by the books Journey song with shitty lyrics.

Venus: They should've swapped the running order of To Whom It May Concern and Someone and tacked this on the end of TWIMC as a coda or something. Just Journey trying to add some time to a shitty album.

Final run down:

Solid tracks: Chain Of Love
Average Tracks: Resonate, Edge of the Moment, She's A Mystery, City Of Hope, Venus
Below Average Tracks: Anything Is Possible, Someone, Ritual
Butterfly Area of Shit: Tantra, To Whom It May Concern, Human Feel

I give this cd some props because musically it's a helleva lot better than Revelation, but lyrically this cd makes Revelation look like Shakespearean literature. It's nice to see the band trying to expand their wings and write something that's not a cookie cutter song (Anything is Possible), but it sucks for the band because they tried and the results are shitty. I mean they used to be able to write rocking songs that didn't have love lyrics written into them, but Cain seems to think if his lyrics don't have anything to do with faith, grace, or love then they're shitty lyrics. Schon guitar wanks over a few of the tracks to much which hurts them. As a fan I really wanted to like this cd much like I really wanted to like Revelation, but I just can't because they both suck.

[Rockindeano]

It has sold 70,000 records. That's pathetic. I heard this turd of a record recently, and I disagree with you- there are NO good songs on it.

Didn't you give the half-assed "Generations" an A+?

Yes I did. I was obviously drinking heavily at the time and was a much bigger Journey fan at that time(I am not even a fan now). I will say I have the right to change my mind BUT before I do that, I will say, that the better songs on Generations, are better than the best on Revelations AND Eclipse. FITH, TPITH, Better Life, OOHW and Beyond the Clouds are solid tunes. I can't think of ONE song on Eclipse better than FITH or TPIYH(fast songs). The fact that Augeri "sang" them brings the score down for me, but he did sing them in studio, and they do sound solid. I'll take Schons melodic playing on TPIYH over any of his "deeper guitar driven bullshit" on Eclipse. It's true as one poster said, you can't have Schons deeper axe intermingled with Frigas poetic wedding verbiage. Ridiculous. If Journey were going to actually be proud of releasing a "rock record" with deep guitar and deep lyrics, then Jon Cain should have recused himself from the songwriting process. Faded Photographs and lost in twilight don't mix well with Schons guitar heavy theme.

I get what TNC is trying to say here- that we should embrace something different other than poppy love song album, but like I just said, I don't think Cains lyrics can marry Schons gfuitar in a deeper musical release. And what about Pineda? I thought this guy was a great songwriter, and would bring songwriting skills to the table. I told anyone here who would listen, Pineda cannot write and guess what? he can't. So he is a waste of time. How about Schon himself? I know his grammar is horrible and he can't fucking read, but can't he at least hum words along with his guitar? Does Cain have to be the only guy who can form lyrics? Hell, I can write lyrics. Don and TNC can write. Why not ask the Board to send in lyrics? It can't be any worse than Eclipse's, or Revelation for that matter.

[Don]

Generations sold a little over 20,000 copies in Japan. Throw in the discs given out with the stateside ticket packages and it's very conceivable that there are many more copies of that album floating about out there than there are Eclipse CDs.

[Don]

I wonder if Arnel being Asian actually hinders the band's album sales in Japan. I've always thought a lot of Western music sales in that country had more to do with exoticism of owning foreign music. When the singer of an American band is Asian, does it cheapen the brand in those particular countries?

[Rockindeano]

Generations sold a little over 20,000 copies in Japan. Throw in the discs given out with the stateside ticket packages and it's very conceivable that there are many more copies of that album floating about out there than there are Eclipse CDs.

Oh it's not even close. I am willing to bet that there is more than double the number of Generations discs "out there" than Eclipse. too bad the majority are no doubt on the nations' landfills.

There's probably as many Generations discs as there are Revelations.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Here's my rundown on the album:

City of Hope: Good song musically, the lyrics try to have an anthem sound to it, but it doesn't go anywhere because the chorus is terrible. Then they decided to bring the Soul SirkUS song "Praise" into it. Totally disjointed and way to long. Sadly IMO one of the better tracks on the album.

Edge Of the Moment: Another good song musically, I don't like Arnel's vocal delivery on the song and the lyrics are at best OK.

Chain Of Love: Best song of the album, best song they've put out with Arnel as the vocalist.

Tantra: Just plain outright bad attempt at mixing poetry with music. The music sucks and the lyrics aren't good at all. It to me sounds like they were trying to create a religious Open Arms.

Anything Is Possible: Generic by the books Journey song that would be better if it had better lyrics. Song is about 2 minutes too long.

Resonate: I actually kind of like the way Arnel sounds on this track because he's not trying to hard to give the fans the Perry sound vocally because he's singing in a natural lower key. The chorus lyrics are awful, musically it's alright.

She's A Mystery: It's a different song that has grown on me. When I first heard it I hated the first 4 mins of the song, now I kind of like the song. I don't like Arnel's vocal work for the first 4 mins of the song until it gets to the rocking part because in the first part of the song his vocals sound forced, while in the rocking section of the song he let's it rip and it sounds natural and great (Arnel's forced sounding vocals are one of the main reasons I haven't liked the last two records...the other reason is because Cain's lyrics have sucked).

Human Feel: Just totally sucks, lyrically and musically just horrible.

Ritual: Another song that is weak musically and the lyrics...suck (Seeing a trend). Oh and I don't like Arnel's vocals on this.

To Whom It May Concern: Hahahaha Arnel writes HAHAHAHA this is bad. This song sounds like something a high school band would write to try to sound like Journey and get laid. I don't want to say anything else because I don't want to get flamed to badly.

Someone: By the time I've gotten down this far in the album, I've usually just switched albums to something good. Another generic boring by the books Journey song with shitty lyrics.

Venus: They should've swapped the running order of To Whom It May Concern and Someone and tacked this on the end of TWIMC as a coda or something. Just Journey trying to add some time to a shitty album.

Final run down:

Solid tracks: Chain Of Love
Average Tracks: Resonate, Edge of the Moment, She's A Mystery, City Of Hope, Venus
Below Average Tracks: Anything Is Possible, Someone, Ritual
Butterfly Area of Shit: Tantra, To Whom It May Concern, Human Feel

I give this cd some props because musically it's a helleva lot better than Revelation, but lyrically this cd makes Revelation look like Shakespearean literature. It's nice to see the band trying to expand their wings and write something that's not a cookie cutter song (Anything is Possible), but it sucks for the band because they tried and the results are shitty. I mean they used to be able to write rocking songs that didn't have love lyrics written into them, but Cain seems to think if his lyrics don't have anything to do with faith, grace, or love then they're shitty lyrics. Schon guitar wanks over a few of the tracks to much which hurts them. As a fan I really wanted to like this cd much like I really wanted to like Revelation, but I just can't because they both suck.

I think the rose-colored glasses ur wearing to look at past albums are one very strong prescription. The lyrics on Eclipse are not a huge drop in quality at all. Ever hear "Homemade Love" or hell, even "Escape"? Cheese has been the order of the day for a very long time.

[The_Noble_Cause]

And what about Pineda? I thought this guy was a great songwriter, and would bring songwriting skills to the table.

I dunno. I think TWIMC is a great Journey ballad. Bonus points for it not being about weddings or love or any of the usual Journey cliches.

[The_Noble_Cause]

I can't think of ONE song on Eclipse better than FITH or TPIYH(fast songs).

I don't know about better, but "Someone", and "Anything Is Possible" and "Chain of Love" are just as strong imo. COL is one of their best rockers in ages.

[Deb]

I will say, that the better songs on Generations, are better than the best on Revelations AND Eclipse. FITH, TPITH, Better Life, OOHW and Beyond the Clouds are solid tunes.

Love that one.