John Waite is not a Journey fan....

[TageRyche]

He's entitled to his opinion, but as someone who liked what he did with the Bad English album, I'm a bit upset at being insulted for liking the work.

[Andrew]

JW is an ass. Trust me on that. But he's my kind of asshole. Still love his music, and he is a very underrated writer.

[texafana]

I guess not enough peeps are missing you JW. I know I ain't missing you at all.....

[Navarro]

JW is a great musician. Love his voice, love his lyrics and I absolutely adore the two BE albums. Besides, without knowing him personally and just reading his interviews for the last decades, I remember several remarks over the years, when he has not been very diplomatic. I also remember a lot interviews of musicians, who worked with him. It seems the one half rather enjoyed working with with him, whereas the other half did not seem to be too fond of him. If I were a hardcore JOURNEY fan - which I am not, although I like the band and possess several albums (Time3 is great!) - I would not put too much in this interview. Maybe he had a bad day. One thing is sure: He does not miss a chance for years now to mention that he does not care for his hair/arena rock days.
Personally I think, it is a pity, because he had some of his strongest moments in those days and I would love to hear all the unreleased stuff he recorded with people like Mandy Meyer, Adrian Vandenberg, Mark Spiro and with his former fellows of BE.

Great musician, my ass. He is a mediocre, boring, vanilla singer with an average range and decent songwriter. Completely forgettable for the most part. Michael Jackson, Stevie Wonder, these were/are examples of great pop singers, not John Waite. Waite's picture is beside the word average in the dictionary.

[Eric]

If he lacks respect so much for Journey, why did he open for them (and Frampton) on the Arrival tour.

Was it for the money? Hmmmm...kinda contradicts what he claims to be about then.

I still say...Fuck him.

[AR]

John Waite has also made donations to anti Journey causes and eats at Chick-Fil-A.

[def]

JW is a great musician. Love his voice, love his lyrics and I absolutely adore the two BE albums. Besides, without knowing him personally and just reading his interviews for the last decades, I remember several remarks over the years, when he has not been very diplomatic. I also remember a lot interviews of musicians, who worked with him. It seems the one half rather enjoyed working with with him, whereas the other half did not seem to be too fond of him. If I were a hardcore JOURNEY fan - which I am not, although I like the band and possess several albums (Time3 is great!) - I would not put too much in this interview. Maybe he had a bad day. One thing is sure: He does not miss a chance for years now to mention that he does not care for his hair/arena rock days.
Personally I think, it is a pity, because he had some of his strongest moments in those days and I would love to hear all the unreleased stuff he recorded with people like Mandy Meyer, Adrian Vandenberg, Mark Spiro and with his former fellows of BE.

Great musician, my ass. He is a mediocre, boring, vanilla singer with an average range and decent songwriter. Completely forgettable for the most part. Michael Jackson, Stevie Wonder, these were/are examples of great pop singers, not John Waite. Waite's picture is beside the word average in the dictionary.

So, now after JW felt free to deliver his opinion on Journey and BE, after I felt free to share my opinion and after you finally added your salt to the soup, we all should feel quite relieved. At least I do and exit the holy grounds of this forum. I have a better understanding what all this talk about the Journey forum is about.
By the way: I actually saw Journey live with Steve Augeri, but I missed all the rare JW concerts on the old continent. I liked the gig!

[Yoda]

What if you're super green?

[tater1977]

From an interview with Gerri Gittelson:
. “It’s for super white people listening to super white music. Fuck that. I’d rather shoot myself.”

http://www.metalsludge.tv/home/index.ph ... &Itemid=38

Ummm...last time I looked @ JW ...he was white....?

I guess we could give him Barney Fife's 1 bullet?

& Who is holding his feet to the fire...to listen to them???

[Michigan Girl]

John Waite has also made donations to anti Journey causes and eats at Chick-Fil-A.

lol ...

Geeeezuz, this place is starting to look like plokkerville where all opinions must
match ...

and yes, as Jubilee said, Journey's audience was super~white. I guess JW
hasn't been to a show lately. But, they are still singing the same super~white songs...
they just don't have the soul/depth they used to have.

[FamilyMan]

What do we expect from a guy who called Cain's piano intro to Open Arms "sentimental rubbish"?

Nah, he was on the mark with that one. I love JC, but Open Arms is trite as hell. Arnel manages to bring some power to an otherwise powerless ballad.

Woa, Nellie. Are you suggesting Arnel brings more power to Open Arms than Steve Perry? I'm no Perry apologist, but c'mon man.

[Don]

Mariah Carey brings more power to Open Arms than Perry or Pineda. The song still sucks though.

[hoagiepete]

Crap. Now I have to wonder if I'm SUPER white, or simply white. More political correctness to worry about.

By the way, how would he define his fanbase?

[scarygirl]

I think John should record his next album as "The Baby."

[mrsromek]

Never saw John live with the Babys or Bad English. Only saw him once, acoustic, when he did a small Borders tour for the Hard Way album. IMO he sounded good and was nice with the fans after the show. I did find it odd he wanted to personalize everything, which I did not mind, but I know for a fact there is not a huge want out there for JW signed stuff. Nonetheless, let him say what he wants in 2012 about the late 70's, 80's and 1991. I think he made a nice buck in Bad English (I'm guessing), and it's easy to bitch and moan and throw former bandmates under the bus after the fact...what 19 years later? Bottom line is he's still playing gigs, and making a nice buck for what, an hour and 15 minutes of performing? Must be rough...

[Andrew]

Mariah Carey brings more power to Open Arms than Perry or Pineda. The song still sucks though.

God, her version of Screaching Dying Cat Arms was HORRIBLE!!!!!!!!

[Gideon]

What do we expect from a guy who called Cain's piano intro to Open Arms "sentimental rubbish"?

Nah, he was on the mark with that one. I love JC, but Open Arms is trite as hell. Arnel manages to bring some power to an otherwise powerless ballad.

Woa, Nellie. Are you suggesting Arnel brings more power to Open Arms than Steve Perry?

Yep.

[slucero]

What do we expect from a guy who called Cain's piano intro to Open Arms "sentimental rubbish"?

Nah, he was on the mark with that one. I love JC, but Open Arms is trite as hell. Arnel manages to bring some power to an otherwise powerless ballad.

Woa, Nellie. Are you suggesting Arnel brings more power to Open Arms than Steve Perry?

Yep.

The interpretation of vocal "power" can be deceiving... In purely technical terms the perceived "power" of sound is called "Amplitude" - which is:

the objective measurement of the degree of change (positive or negative) in atmospheric pressure (the compression and rarefaction of air molecules) caused by sound waves.

Imagine sound as waves... the lower frequency (bass) waves are larger and roll longer.. the higher frequency waves (treble) are smaller and roll shorter. The same applies for the amplitude.... you will hear sound as perceptibly louder (more powerful) the longer the bass sound is present.. so the longer a singer stays "on the mic", not pulling the mic away... the more powerful the vocal can appear to sound.

This is called "proximity effect":

- an increase in bass or low frequency response when a sound source is close to a microphone

This is why some singers pull the mic away for when they increase their singing volume.. the further the mic is pulled away the less proximity effect there is and the less "Bass-y" the voice sounds... Some use it because their voices are are excessively bass-y, some for effect.. some for both..

Perry used this technique, it was part of how he expressively sang... I've not seen Arnel use it. It doesn't mean Arnel is singing WRONG.. it does mean that what one hears and perceives as "power" can also be caused by simple proximity of the voice to the mic.

The only true way to compare vocal power (amplitude) would be to have both singers, sing the same thing, into the same mic, from he same distance.. as loud as they each can.

From a purely physical standpoint.. folks may perceive Arnel to have a more "powerful" voice. (I remember stories of him blowing up PA systems in Asia). This is likely due to how he learned to sing.. which means as LOUD as he can, because he likely had a hard time hearing himself on crappy PA systems. So, Arnels "gift" is not just his larynx, but also the lungs to push that air through it.


This is why I REALLY wish Arnel would train with someone like Perry.. Arnel is a "bull in a china shop" as a singer... more power than expression, and an uncontrolled vibrato.... and he could learn so much about vibrato & expression from SP (JSS too), who used not only power, but vibrato and expression as part if his technique. Listen to a song like "Good Morning Girl"... the lilting expression with vibrato AND amplitude control is amazing... I'd LOVE for Arnel to learn this.

[Rick]

What do we expect from a guy who called Cain's piano intro to Open Arms "sentimental rubbish"?

Nah, he was on the mark with that one. I love JC, but Open Arms is trite as hell. Arnel manages to bring some power to an otherwise powerless ballad.

Woa, Nellie. Are you suggesting Arnel brings more power to Open Arms than Steve Perry?

Yep.

The interpretation of vocal "power" can be deceiving... In purely technical terms the perceived "power" of sound is called "Amplitude" - which is:

the objective measurement of the degree of change (positive or negative) in atmospheric pressure (the compression and rarefaction of air molecules) caused by sound waves.

Imagine sound as waves... the lower frequency (bass) waves are larger and roll longer.. the higher frequency waves (treble) are smaller and roll shorter. The same applies for the amplitude.... you will hear sound as perceptibly louder (more powerful) the longer the bass sound is present.. so the longer a singer stays "on the mic", not pulling the mic away... the more powerful the vocal can appear to sound.

This is called "proximity effect":

- an increase in bass or low frequency response when a sound source is close to a microphone

This is why some singers pull the mic away for when they increase their singing volume.. the further the mic is pulled away the less proximity effect there is and the less "Bass-y" the voice sounds... Some use it because their voices are are excessively bass-y, some for effect.. some for both..

Perry used this technique, it was part of how he expressively sang... I've not seen Arnel use it. It doesn't mean Arnel is singing WRONG.. it does mean that what one hears and perceives as "power" can also be caused by simple proximity of the voice to the mic.

The only true way to compare vocal power (amplitude) would be to have both singers, sing the same thing, into the same mic, from he same distance.. as loud as they each can.

From a purely physical standpoint.. folks may perceive Arnel to have a more "powerful" voice. (I remember stories of him blowing up PA systems in Asia). This is likely due to how he learned to sing.. which means as LOUD as he can, because he likely had a hard time hearing himself on crappy PA systems. So, Arnels "gift" is not just his larynx, but also the lungs to push that air through it.


This is why I REALLY wish Arnel would train with someone like Perry.. Arnel is a "bull in a china shop" as a singer... more power than expression, and an uncontrolled vibrato.... and he could learn so much about vibrato & expression from SP (JSS too), who used not only power, but vibrato and expression as part if his technique. Listen to a song like "Good Morning Girl"... the lilting expression with vibrato AND amplitude control is amazing... I'd LOVE for Arnel to learn this.

That's great information, thanks. I'm sure John Waite keeps the mic smashed firmly against his cocksucker, because he has zero power and no bass at all.

[Gideon]

Nice post Slucero. Yeah, my use of power was meant to reference amplification. I don't doubt that Perry could have rattled the walls as well as Pineda, but he never did to me on that song. It's an issue of delicacy vs. power and I prefer the latter for OA.

[slucero]

Nice post Slucero. Yeah, my use of power was meant to reference amplification. I don't doubt that Perry could have rattled the walls as well as Pineda, but he never did to me on that song. It's an issue of delicacy vs. power and I prefer the latter for OA.

I think SP never sang that way (rattling the walls) intentionally, his way of singing made use of more expression and dynamics.. Nelly more or less just belts it..

..nothing wrong with that.

[Idiosyncrasy]

And yet he still performs 'When I See You Smile' live.

Any respect for John Waite = Gone.

[Michigan Girl]

Mariah Carey brings more power to Open Arms than Perry or Pineda. The song still sucks though.

God, her version of Screaching Dying Cat Arms was HORRIBLE!!!!!!!!

It's moments like these^^^that make me think of (and miss) 78 ... he so
loved MC's version ...over the top rollercoaster vox while trying to emulate
emotion.

No one has been able to sing OA (shitty song or not) with just the right
amount of power, depth and emotion since Perry ...power and vocal
gymnastics < emotional heartfelt delivery with just the right amount of power.

[Don]

Mariah Carey brings more power to Open Arms than Perry or Pineda. The song still sucks though.

God, her version of Screaching Dying Cat Arms was HORRIBLE!!!!!!!!

It's moments like these^^^that make me think of (and miss) 78 ... he so
loved MC's version ...over the top rollercoaster vox while trying to emulate
emotion.

No one has been able to sing OA (shitty song or not) with just the right
amount of power, depth and emotion since Perry ...power and vocal
gymnastics < emotional heartfelt delivery with just the right amount of power.

Yeah, I miss '78 too. Wonder if he went down to Cabo San Lucas, him being a big Sammy fan and also a lover of Mexican food /beer and women.

[Michigan Girl]

JW is a great musician. Love his voice, love his lyrics and I absolutely adore the two BE albums. Besides, without knowing him personally and just reading his interviews for the last decades, I remember several remarks over the years, when he has not been very diplomatic. I also remember a lot interviews of musicians, who worked with him. It seems the one half rather enjoyed working with with him, whereas the other half did not seem to be too fond of him. If I were a hardcore JOURNEY fan - which I am not, although I like the band and possess several albums (Time3 is great!) - I would not put too much in this interview. Maybe he had a bad day. One thing is sure: He does not miss a chance for years now to mention that he does not care for his hair/arena rock days.
Personally I think, it is a pity, because he had some of his strongest moments in those days and I would love to hear all the unreleased stuff he recorded with people like Mandy Meyer, Adrian Vandenberg, Mark Spiro and with his former fellows of BE.

Great musician, my ass. He is a mediocre, boring, vanilla singer with an average range and decent songwriter. Completely forgettable for the most part. Michael Jackson, Stevie Wonder, these were/are examples of great pop singers, not John Waite. Waite's picture is beside the word average in the dictionary.

Average range, perhaps, and perhaps he lacked a great amount of power ...he made up for that
w/his delivery ...great delivery. He may be an ass as Andrew stated and he may be boring to you,
but he isn't not talented.

[Navarro]

JW is a great musician. Love his voice, love his lyrics and I absolutely adore the two BE albums. Besides, without knowing him personally and just reading his interviews for the last decades, I remember several remarks over the years, when he has not been very diplomatic. I also remember a lot interviews of musicians, who worked with him. It seems the one half rather enjoyed working with with him, whereas the other half did not seem to be too fond of him. If I were a hardcore JOURNEY fan - which I am not, although I like the band and possess several albums (Time3 is great!) - I would not put too much in this interview. Maybe he had a bad day. One thing is sure: He does not miss a chance for years now to mention that he does not care for his hair/arena rock days.
Personally I think, it is a pity, because he had some of his strongest moments in those days and I would love to hear all the unreleased stuff he recorded with people like Mandy Meyer, Adrian Vandenberg, Mark Spiro and with his former fellows of BE.

Great musician, my ass. He is a mediocre, boring, vanilla singer with an average range and decent songwriter. Completely forgettable for the most part. Michael Jackson, Stevie Wonder, these were/are examples of great pop singers, not John Waite. Waite's picture is beside the word average in the dictionary.

Average range, perhaps, and perhaps he lacked a great amount of power ...he made up for that
w/his delivery ...great delivery. He may be an ass as Andrew stated and he may be boring to you,
but he isn't not talented.

Hi MG-Perhaps, but being talented and being GREAT are two very different things. There are many, many talented musicians, but few great ones.

[Michigan Girl]

JW is a great musician. Love his voice, love his lyrics and I absolutely adore the two BE albums. Besides, without knowing him personally and just reading his interviews for the last decades, I remember several remarks over the years, when he has not been very diplomatic. I also remember a lot interviews of musicians, who worked with him. It seems the one half rather enjoyed working with with him, whereas the other half did not seem to be too fond of him. If I were a hardcore JOURNEY fan - which I am not, although I like the band and possess several albums (Time3 is great!) - I would not put too much in this interview. Maybe he had a bad day. One thing is sure: He does not miss a chance for years now to mention that he does not care for his hair/arena rock days.
Personally I think, it is a pity, because he had some of his strongest moments in those days and I would love to hear all the unreleased stuff he recorded with people like Mandy Meyer, Adrian Vandenberg, Mark Spiro and with his former fellows of BE.

Great musician, my ass. He is a mediocre, boring, vanilla singer with an average range and decent songwriter. Completely forgettable for the most part. Michael Jackson, Stevie Wonder, these were/are examples of great pop singers, not John Waite. Waite's picture is beside the word average in the dictionary.

Average range, perhaps, and perhaps he lacked a great amount of power ...he made up for that
w/his delivery ...great delivery. He may be an ass as Andrew stated and he may be boring to you,
but he isn't not talented.

Hi MG-Perhaps, but being talented and being GREAT are two very different things. There are many, many talented musicians, but few great ones.

Absolutely ...

[wastingbeerz]

wow...his comments (if they are legit) definitely surprise me...thought he had more class than that, but also, maybe he's plugging into something I've never thought of when I think of Journey... White people music...hahaha, it definitely didn't bother Randy Jackson

I've always thought of them as rock / pop with elements of progressive / jazz. Color inspecific...but also Steve Perry, I mean come-on, one of the most soulful singers of all time. Guess it's easy for people to dismiss something on facets of taste, rather than substance.

Randy is white so why would it bother him? "Yo Dawg" does not a brother make.

that was almost too easy...and he plays bass whiter than Ross...Just sayin'

Haha... plays bass whiter than Ross... that had me rolling on the floor... LOL!!!

[georgethree33]

They are practically the same band, I'm calling sour grapes.

Bad English was:
Neal Schon
Jonathan Cain
Ricky Phillips
Deen Castronovo
John Waite

Journey is:
Neal Schon
Ross Valory
Jonathan Cain
Deen Castronovo
Arnel Pineda

I love both bands, but I'm guessing he's pissed he didn't get the chance that Deen did to transition to Journey. Waite would give his left nut to be the vocalist in Journey and play for the Super White folks again.

[steveo777]

Mariah Carey brings more power to Open Arms than Perry or Pineda. The song still sucks though.

God, her version of Screaching Dying Cat Arms was HORRIBLE!!!!!!!!

This is the 2nd best delivery of OA ever.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUi41Itj ... re=related