Not so fast Mr. Cain!

[The_Noble_Cause]

You vilify me for insight into Cains motives yet you do the same...you simply don't know that.. yet claim it as credible.. LMAO

It's a logical assumption. At least a helluva alot more logical than your own bad impersonation of Madame Cleo with a cracked crystal ball. Why would Cain help reform the band and write new music if he didn't think it was a good idea in the first place? Neal and Jon were writing Journey tunes even while Perry was MIA. So your just ridiculously offbase.

By any measure, Eclipse was total fucking FAILURE.. 100,000 sold means about 10 Eclipse fans per show.. that you can't accept the fact that they are now on DD autopilot can only stem from you being fixated on the scent of Cains nuts as they hang over your eyes..

New to this forum, are we? Every album the band has released since 1998 has been a sales flop. If Eclipse debuting at #13 is a "FAILURE", what does that make Generations debuting just shy of #200? Given that all of your posts serve as a rusty trombone recital to Perry's chunky o-ring, it doesn't surprise me in the least that your favorite bottled fragrance is Eau De Cain's Testes. You're obviously one depraved fuck and I, for one, am glad that you do not count yourself among the band's fans.

[FamilyMan]

You vilify me for insight into Cains motives yet you do the same...you simply don't know that.. yet claim it as credible.. LMAO

It's a logical assumption. At least a helluva alot more logical than your own bad impersonation of Madame Cleo with a cracked crystal ball. Why would Cain help reform the band and write new music if he didn't think it was a good idea in the first place? Neal and Jon were writing Journey tunes even while Perry was MIA. So your just ridiculously offbase.

By any measure, Eclipse was total fucking FAILURE.. 100,000 sold means about 10 Eclipse fans per show.. that you can't accept the fact that they are now on DD autopilot can only stem from you being fixated on the scent of Cains nuts as they hang over your eyes..

New to this forum, are we? Every album the band has released since 1998 has been a sales flop. If Eclipse debuting at #13 is a "FAILURE", what does that make Generations debuting just shy of #200? Given that all of your posts serve as a rusty trombone recital to Perry's chunky o-ring, it doesn't surprise me in the least that your favorite bottled fragrance is Eau De Cain's Testes. You're obviously one depraved fuck and I, for one, am glad that you do not count yourself among the band's fans.

Don't have the data in front of me, but Revelation didn't flop.

[brywool]

I can't believe that anyone here expects a JOURNEY album to sell in the bazillions. You can't be serious. Perry or no Perry, this band is an old band whose best times were between 80-83 (you can stretch that to 86 I guess, but ROR was considered a flop by 35C4p3 and Frontiers standards). Journey had a VERY limited time at the top. The fact that they're still able to tour THE WORLD 30 years after their heyday is a pretty freaking amazing feat. The naysayers on this forum are ridiculous. They're still selling out shows and doing big business. I'm not sure what you guys expect out of them. Even U2s last album was a flop, but it didn't stop them from being the biggest band in the world at the time. Journey always was a touring band. That's how they made it. The fact that Escape and Frontiers sold tons of records was more the exception, not the rule. Albums prior to those weren't huge sellers.

I think for a non-promoted, poorly released album, that 100,000 in sales is pretty darned good. I think that Cain needs to realize that the world has moved on and it's not 1983. They either do this cuz they love it and can make money, or they realize that they're not getting any joy out of it. If you look at the Neal and Arnel interviews of late, looks like they're having a ball. Only Cain seems disgruntled. Um... is that new or something? Nope.

Edit: One more thing- look at the ABSOLUTE GARBAGE that sells albums these days. I'll take Eclipse any day over what people call "hit records" any day of the week.

[Eric]

I think for a non-promoted, poorly released album, that 100,000 in sales is pretty darned good. I think that Cain needs to realize that the world has moved on and it's not 1983. They either do this cuz they love it and can make money, or they realize that they're not getting any joy out of it. If you look at the Neal and Arnel interviews of late, looks like they're having a ball. Only Cain seems disgruntled. Um... is that new or something? Nope.

You know...I'm glad someone said that. Why is 100k in 2013 for a Walmart only release that bad? I'm not saying its not mildly disappointing...but geez.

[slucero]

wow.. you really popped a hemorrhoid didn't ya..

You vilify me for insight into Cains motives yet you do the same...you simply don't know that.. yet claim it as credible.. LMAO

It's a logical assumption. At least a helluva alot more logical than your own bad impersonation of Madame Cleo with a cracked crystal ball. Why would Cain help reform the band and write new music if he didn't think it was a good idea in the first place? Neal and Jon were writing Journey tunes even while Perry was MIA. So your just ridiculously offbase.

I haven't a clue why Cain would reform the band.. but since you apparently have some deeper, telepathic insight, along with a Schon-level Napoleonic superiority complex... why don't you pull your crystal ball out of your uterus and edumacate all of po' ignant fans..

By any measure, Eclipse was total fucking FAILURE.. 100,000 sold means about 10 Eclipse fans per show.. that you can't accept the fact that they are now on DD autopilot can only stem from you being fixated on the scent of Cains nuts as they hang over your eyes..

New to this forum, are we? Every album the band has released since 1998 has been a sales flop. If Eclipse debuting at #13 is a "FAILURE", what does that make Generations debuting just shy of #200? Given that all of your posts serve as a rusty trombone recital to Perry's chunky o-ring, it doesn't surprise me in the least that your favorite bottled fragrance is Eau De Cain's Testes. You're obviously one depraved fuck and I, for one, am glad that you do not count yourself among the band's fans.

au contraire Ignoble Clod.. been around fo' long time..


hows the air down there little man?

[Andrew]

I think for a non-promoted, poorly released album, that 100,000 in sales is pretty darned good. I think that Cain needs to realize that the world has moved on and it's not 1983. They either do this cuz they love it and can make money, or they realize that they're not getting any joy out of it. If you look at the Neal and Arnel interviews of late, looks like they're having a ball. Only Cain seems disgruntled. Um... is that new or something? Nope.

You know...I'm glad someone said that. Why is 100k in 2013 for a Walmart only release that bad? I'm not saying its not mildly disappointing...but geez.

It's as good as most other tier bands out there for sure.

NOT a flop.

[steveo777]

I think for a non-promoted, poorly released album, that 100,000 in sales is pretty darned good. I think that Cain needs to realize that the world has moved on and it's not 1983. They either do this cuz they love it and can make money, or they realize that they're not getting any joy out of it. If you look at the Neal and Arnel interviews of late, looks like they're having a ball. Only Cain seems disgruntled. Um... is that new or something? Nope.

You know...I'm glad someone said that. Why is 100k in 2013 for a Walmart only release that bad? I'm not saying its not mildly disappointing...but geez.

It's as good as most other tier bands out there for sure.

NOT a flop.

Exactly. The music is good and from that perspective it's not a flop. The sales were not great, but I don't consider the album a failure at all. Too bad it wasn't promoted better. I guess it will remain a little treasure that not many folks know about. There are many albums like that, where once you listen, you are blown away.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Don't have the data in front of me, but Revelation didn't flop.

Don't be so damn literal. Every album of original material has flopped. Take away the re-done hits and Revelation would've had the sales life of a Menudo covers album as sung by Ruben Studdard. Let's get real. Some rock bands (like Rush) create because they intrinsically want to create. Other bands (like Jon Cain's idea of Journey) fret over dollars and cents and decimal figures. Be a band. Make new music (even if it's just Itunes like Augeri is doing) or call it a day.

[efrasjourney]

Where's the like button in this forum...

I think for a non-promoted, poorly released album, that 100,000 in sales is pretty darned good. I think that Cain needs to realize that the world has moved on and it's not 1983. They either do this cuz they love it and can make money, or they realize that they're not getting any joy out of it. If you look at the Neal and Arnel interviews of late, looks like they're having a ball. Only Cain seems disgruntled. Um... is that new or something? Nope.

You know...I'm glad someone said that. Why is 100k in 2013 for a Walmart only release that bad? I'm not saying its not mildly disappointing...but geez.

It's as good as most other tier bands out there for sure.

NOT a flop.

[Eric]

Some rock bands (like Rush) create because they intrinsically want to create. Other bands (like Jon Cain's idea of Journey) fret over dollars and cents and decimal figures. Be a band. Make new music (even if it's just Itunes like Augeri is doing) or call it a day.

Perfectly said...and I will be stealing this for future use on other forums!

[brywool]

Rush sells albums and concert tickets. Rush's albums aren't big chart toppers, but they sell. I wish Journey and Styx could be satisfied with that kind of deal. I think that once you've been on top and sold tons of records, that anything else feels like failure.

[musicfan17]

I'd like to see one more classic sounding Journey album with one or two "twist" songs thrown in. But while were on the subject, who says Cain can't be part of the writing process even if he is not a full part of the recording process? Neal and Jon could write new songs for an album together and that doesn't mean Jon has to be part of the recording process at all. With the songs written you could bring in any number of good keyboardists to record with. Like say...Gregg Rollie to guest record (I know wishful thinking).

My point is that another Journey record doesn't have to go the traditional route in terms of being written and recorded.

I also believe this would be a great time to get former Journey members to guest on what may likely be the last Journey studio album. Think Journey All-Star Members approach. As mentioned above, Rollie, Smith, Dunbar, Jackson, Augeri are all musicians that could be asked to be part of a song or two since they seem amicable with the band. (Yes, I'd love to see Perry involved in some way as well...but the rational side of me says that will never happen. Even on a studio project.)

I know the second half of my post is wishful thinking, but it would be a great way to record a final Journey studio album, then the current lineup could sail off into the sunset.

[jrnyman28]

I think if Jon were to write something for Journey he would want to be a part of bringing it to fruition. He want to have a certain amount of control over the finished product...

[Don]

Rush sells albums and concert tickets. Rush's albums aren't big chart toppers, but they sell. I wish Journey and Styx could be satisfied with that kind of deal. I think that once you've been on top and sold tons of records, that anything else feels like failure.

Not necessarily.

(2002) Vapor Trails #6 Billboard 200
(2004) Feedback (a covers album) #19 Billboard 200
(2007) Snakes and Arrows #3 Billboard 200
(2012) Clockwork Angels #2 Billboard 200

[brywool]

Rush sells albums and concert tickets. Rush's albums aren't big chart toppers, but they sell. I wish Journey and Styx could be satisfied with that kind of deal. I think that once you've been on top and sold tons of records, that anything else feels like failure.

Not necessarily.

(2002) Vapor Trails #6 Billboard 200
(2004) Feedback (a covers album) #19 Billboard 200
(2007) Snakes and Arrows #3 Billboard 200
(2012) Clockwork Angels #2 Billboard 200

I stand corrected, but keep in mind, a #2 album today isn't what it was in the 80s.
By the way, Rush's latest album's great.

[Don]

Rush sells albums and concert tickets. Rush's albums aren't big chart toppers, but they sell. I wish Journey and Styx could be satisfied with that kind of deal. I think that once you've been on top and sold tons of records, that anything else feels like failure.

Not necessarily.

(2002) Vapor Trails #6 Billboard 200
(2004) Feedback (a covers album) #19 Billboard 200
(2007) Snakes and Arrows #3 Billboard 200
(2012) Clockwork Angels #2 Billboard 200

I stand corrected, but keep in mind, a #2 album today isn't what it was in the 80s.
By the way, Rush's latest album's great.

Well there you have it. Revelation sold 880,000 copies. Jon and Neal don't seem to want to believe that it's probably because of the DVD and Greatest Hits pack-in, all for $12.99 and Arnel's story being a great promotional piece also.
Revelation sold steadily for six months. it was a super great bargain and new fans got to hear songs they were familiar with already.

Eclipse was one disc for $3.00 less. No DVD. I f you are a new fan, you want the second album to sound a little like the first one, that's only natural. For long time fans, the change is okay or expected but for new fans it wasn't.
If the band wanted to keep those fans hooked, Eclipse should have been one more album later, after you've established Arnel as the band's vocalist. Also, $7.99 price or even $6.99 special wouldn't have hurt either, considering you are only getting one third of what you got with Revelation (not to mention the cheap ass case Eclipse was packaged in).

[Andrew]

Rush are a different beast alltogether. Their fan base LIKES being challenged by what the band offers and each subsequent tour the fans DEMAND the band plays new tracks! What a concept!

[Gideon]

Rush are a different beast alltogether. Their fan base LIKES being challenged by what the band offers and each subsequent tour the fans DEMAND the band plays new tracks! What a concept!

You must despise the avg. Journey fan.

[Andrew]

Rush are a different beast alltogether. Their fan base LIKES being challenged by what the band offers and each subsequent tour the fans DEMAND the band plays new tracks! What a concept!

You must despise the avg. Journey fan.

I love Rush

[Monker]

Cain probably made his "No more albums" comment after Arrival because he realized the the writing dynamic had changed, and it would likely never result in what he considered (or fans would accept) as Journey quality material (which it hasn't).

Cain made that comment in reference to Arrival's low sales numbers. Much the same way he has now expressed similar thoughts regarding Eclipse's low numbers. There is no "probably" about anything. Go read the interview(s). Way to twist things around to vindicate your own agenda. Next you'll be telling me that Cain never wanted to fracture the stone.

He also made it in reference to Arrival being on Napster...why buy it when you can just download it? So, I guess his thought was if that's the attitude, why even record an album in the first place?

[Monker]

I think for a non-promoted, poorly released album, that 100,000 in sales is pretty darned good. I think that Cain needs to realize that the world has moved on and it's not 1983. They either do this cuz they love it and can make money, or they realize that they're not getting any joy out of it. If you look at the Neal and Arnel interviews of late, looks like they're having a ball. Only Cain seems disgruntled. Um... is that new or something? Nope.

You know...I'm glad someone said that. Why is 100k in 2013 for a Walmart only release that bad? I'm not saying its not mildly disappointing...but geez.

The fact is Arrival was not promoted any better, was also "poorly released", and sold three times as well as Eclipse. So, if Eclipse sales were pretty darned good, Arrival must be on the level of Escape.

Eclipse was a flop, if you care about sales. There is no denying that...especially considering the bloated outspoken
expectations of some fans. If there was any "100,000 in sales is pretty good" there would be no debate in the band about another album....they would be recording one right now.

[Monker]

I think for a non-promoted, poorly released album, that 100,000 in sales is pretty darned good. I think that Cain needs to realize that the world has moved on and it's not 1983. They either do this cuz they love it and can make money, or they realize that they're not getting any joy out of it. If you look at the Neal and Arnel interviews of late, looks like they're having a ball. Only Cain seems disgruntled. Um... is that new or something? Nope.

You know...I'm glad someone said that. Why is 100k in 2013 for a Walmart only release that bad? I'm not saying its not mildly disappointing...but geez.

It's as good as most other tier bands out there for sure.

NOT a flop.

I think Walmart would disagree...pretty strongly, too.

[steveo777]

There is nothing wrong with Journey's new music. Anyone marketing the band ought to be immediately fired!

[Rick]

There is nothing wrong with Journey's new music. Anyone marketing the band ought to be immediately fired!

It wasn't promoted because it wasn't a radio friendly album, and all of that is due to the lengths of the songs. They didn't make 3 and a half minute versions of any of them, either. A label would be crazy to promote something that isn't marketable.

They have done some double talking in regards to Eclipse. At the onset they commented that it was going to be a record of stuff they wanted to do, so they did it. Good for them, other bands have done the same. Then they say that due to that album's disappointing sales, they're thinking of not making another one?

[The_Noble_Cause]

It wasn't promoted because it wasn't a radio friendly album, and all of that is due to the lengths of the songs.

Please. Even if the songs were two minutes long, no radio station would touch it.

[Rick]

It wasn't promoted because it wasn't a radio friendly album, and all of that is due to the lengths of the songs.

Please. Even if the songs were two minutes long, no radio station would touch it.

Probably true too.

[steveo777]

It wasn't promoted because it wasn't a radio friendly album, and all of that is due to the lengths of the songs.

Please. Even if the songs were two minutes long, no radio station would touch it.

Okay...let's go there! The radio stations are pissed that Journey moved on without Perry. That is never gonna change. Whether that is deserved or not lies in the eye of the beholder, but that's their stance. Journey, at this point, could come up with music that blows all previous songs away, as a scenario, but they are not getting back on the radio no matter what they do. The great wheel in the sky just won't allow it.

[Andrew]

I think for a non-promoted, poorly released album, that 100,000 in sales is pretty darned good. I think that Cain needs to realize that the world has moved on and it's not 1983. They either do this cuz they love it and can make money, or they realize that they're not getting any joy out of it. If you look at the Neal and Arnel interviews of late, looks like they're having a ball. Only Cain seems disgruntled. Um... is that new or something? Nope.

You know...I'm glad someone said that. Why is 100k in 2013 for a Walmart only release that bad? I'm not saying its not mildly disappointing...but geez.

It's as good as most other tier bands out there for sure.

NOT a flop.

I think Walmart would disagree...pretty strongly, too.

I don't think so. 100k of ANY media product in this day is good.

[Liam]

Rush sells albums and concert tickets. Rush's albums aren't big chart toppers, but they sell. I wish Journey and Styx could be satisfied with that kind of deal. I think that once you've been on top and sold tons of records, that anything else feels like failure.

Not necessarily.

(2002) Vapor Trails #6 Billboard 200
(2004) Feedback (a covers album) #19 Billboard 200
(2007) Snakes and Arrows #3 Billboard 200
(2012) Clockwork Angels #2 Billboard 200

Wasn't it beautiful to see CA get to #2?

[JohnH]

I think for a non-promoted, poorly released album, that 100,000 in sales is pretty darned good. I think that Cain needs to realize that the world has moved on and it's not 1983. They either do this cuz they love it and can make money, or they realize that they're not getting any joy out of it. If you look at the Neal and Arnel interviews of late, looks like they're having a ball. Only Cain seems disgruntled. Um... is that new or something? Nope.

You know...I'm glad someone said that. Why is 100k in 2013 for a Walmart only release that bad? I'm not saying its not mildly disappointing...but geez.

It's as good as most other tier bands out there for sure.

NOT a flop.

Agree. I think Eclipse is great .