You singers on Arnel's current condition

[Eric]

I found some info

1998= 59 shows from oct10-dec 31
1999=60 shows from june 2-sept 6
2000=15 shows (could not find any info on a summer tour) the 15 shows were mostly abroad
2001=55 shows from june 2-aug 18
2002-48 shows from april 20-sept 29
2003=60 shows from april 26-oct 4
2004 from june11-sept 18 (could not find the tour dates)
2005=54 shows from june26-dec 1

I'd guess about 60 for the 2004 tour.

The 2001 tour got extended well into September. The 55 was the official Arrival tour schedule.

[brywool]

Bry, I'm not anti-Pineda by any means, I just call it like I see it. (Or in this case, hear it.)

He doesn't sound good to me at all on Separate Ways in either the Crossroads or Japan clip. My friend pointed out that Arnel's posture might have something to do with the obvious strain; when he lifts his chin off his chest and lengthens his throat, he seems to have a much easier time with the money notes.

Faithfully also sounds rough. I'm not saying he's at Augeri levels, he's clearly got a stronger voice than Augeri ever did, but this is not the same guy I heard in 2008.

I'd like to reply more... but I think Slucero's avs, etc. are going to get me fired!
His posture and his delivery of the Journey songs has changed a lot. That's what I was saying, his Rascal Flatts songs are GREAT. When he sings the Journey stuff though, he completely changes his vocal approach and delivery and just how he sings. It's really odd and I'm not understanding it. It doesn't sound like strain to me. It sounds like a stylistic choice. I've never been on a major tour, so I can't really comment, but I think a lot of singers at some point have to do what they can to get through the gig. He seems to be a pretty sensitive dude, so maybe it's nerves. I remember for a long time Ann Wilson (The greatest woman rock vocalist ever in my opinion) could hardly sing all due to stage fright that she developed later in her career. I don't think he sounds "bad" on the songs you mentioned, but he does sound different. I prefer a more open sound from him. I think he may be getting advice from a new teacher or something.

[brywool]

I hear ya.

Arnel probably does have better pitch, vocal technique, etc. But, as talented as he is in that department, I prefer Augeri...Augeri (for me) had better vibe and presence. Listening to Arnel live, it may as well have been a keyboard...he was hitting most of the notes, but it was kinda lifeless...not an ounce of "rock and roll" in him.

But again, that's just me...a lot of people obviously like him and he's very talented...it just leaves me cold. It's like some of these kids I see on the American Idol commercials...they're hitting the notes...but it's so colorless and bland that it doesn't matter.

These kind of statements leave me shaking my head. Augeri sounded like someone struggling to me. He still does, and I hate to say it but he does.

[slucero]

I hear ya.

Arnel probably does have better pitch, vocal technique, etc. But, as talented as he is in that department, I prefer Augeri...Augeri (for me) had better vibe and presence. Listening to Arnel live, it may as well have been a keyboard...he was hitting most of the notes, but it was kinda lifeless...not an ounce of "rock and roll" in him.

But again, that's just me...a lot of people obviously like him and he's very talented...it just leaves me cold. It's like some of these kids I see on the American Idol commercials...they're hitting the notes...but it's so colorless and bland that it doesn't matter.

These kind of statements leave me shaking my head. Augeri sounded like someone struggling to me. He still does, and I hate to say it but he does.

I saw Augi when he 1st joined and he sounded AMAZING.. he had a swagger onstage that was palpable.

[Pelata]

I hear ya.

Arnel probably does have better pitch, vocal technique, etc. But, as talented as he is in that department, I prefer Augeri...Augeri (for me) had better vibe and presence. Listening to Arnel live, it may as well have been a keyboard...he was hitting most of the notes, but it was kinda lifeless...not an ounce of "rock and roll" in him.

But again, that's just me...a lot of people obviously like him and he's very talented...it just leaves me cold. It's like some of these kids I see on the American Idol commercials...they're hitting the notes...but it's so colorless and bland that it doesn't matter.

These kind of statements leave me shaking my head. Augeri sounded like someone struggling to me. He still does, and I hate to say it but he does.

I saw Augi when he 1st joined and he sounded AMAZING.. he had a swagger onstage that was palpable.

Yup...I'm sure he struggled later on...but he certainly wasn't struggling when I saw him...

Arnel was struggling a bit when I saw him last year...all singers can struggle at any given time live.

[yulog]

in various places on the net it wasn't on one page , i had to type in each year and then search through a plethera of pages for each one. i think at one time i saw a grid like you have for perry and augeri but i can't remember where i saw it.

I get mine from here: http://www.journey-tribute.com/journey/ ... _past.html

and Wikipedia

98 and 99 came from the same site there was a way to manipulate that site to give me the stats about those 2 years but not any of the others

[yulog]

I[b] saw Augi when he 1st joined and he sounded AMAZING.. he had a swagger onstage that was palpable.

I saw him several times during his tenure including right in the beginning and he sounded great ,matter of fact the only time i heard him struggling was the last time i saw him which was the year they did the 3 hr + shows , i think that was 2005. oddly enough that was the year some here said he was lipping which did not make any sense at all, if he was lipping a previous show, why would they use a show where he actually was having difficulty throughout the night.

[Pelata]

in various places on the net it wasn't on one page , i had to type in each year and then search through a plethera of pages for each one. i think at one time i saw a grid like you have for perry and augeri but i can't remember where i saw it.

I get mine from here: http://www.journey-tribute.com/journey/ ... _past.html

and Wikipedia

98 and 99 came from the same site there was a way to manipulate that site to give me the stats about those 2 years but not any of the others

I don't know if that site is 100% comprehensive...only reason I say that is because I know Bad English and Whitesnake played in Greensboro NC, but that date is not listed. If they missed that date, they probably missed others.

[tater1977]

Don't know if this will help or not..


http://www.journey-tribute.com/journey/ ... _past.html

This I use a lot..but it does have a few missing dates...


https://www.facebook.com/notes/steve-pe ... 5673998760


This has a couple missing...


http://www.angelfire.com/music/collections/index2.htm

& this just kind of a cross reference between all 3 of them...

[slucero]

kool... thanks!

[slucero]

AP is outpacing SA...

[Yoda]

For those of you who sing professionally (Pelata, Jeremey, Slucero?, etc.), is Arnel's voice toast at this point? It's pitchy as hell; not quite at Augeri levels, but I'm curious what you all think can be done (if anything).

Augeri was WAY worse live and much sooner. His pitch and power was a constant issue from day 1. Sorry, but it's a fact. I always say after making statements like that how much I liked the guy. His recorded stuff was great with Journey. Live, I didn't think he had the stamina.

I know I'm repeating myself, but when I saw Augeri in '98 and '99 he was dead on and damn near perfect all night. In '98, they played 20+ songs and even at the end of the encore he was kicking ass.

So, I don't know how accurate "Day 1" is...I do know he hit a wall afterwards...which sucks AND which I think could have been avoided or corrected without kicking him to the curb...but I digress.

I saw Journey in 1998, and Steve Augeri was right on the money the night I saw them! They had no opening act, it was just them. Awesome concert!

[LookthruGlass]

Wow Steveo, you compare Paul to Arnel? First off Paul was the original singer. Arnel is suppose to sound like the original singer and DOES NOT and NEVER WILL.

Get my drift ?

LMAO over here !!!!

[Gideon]

Slucero, how many shows a week should Arnel do, what should the length of setlists be, and in original key or not?

[Don]

I can't imagine the songs going back to original key anymore. Even Arnel had alluded to the fact (in his shoutbox appearances) that it's getting harder for him vocally since he started in 2008.

Journey could do less shows but then it's harder to get a good opening act. Openers make less anyway but at least with 60 to 70 shows, it can be worthwhile.
They could go with local openers on a shorter tour but that would mean for longer setlists. With Jon and Deen already having to spell Pineda on a already short setlist, not too sure how feasible it would be to add five or six more songs.

I think in the end, they play more casinos from here on out. Less ticket sales overall but you don't have to worry necessarily about an opener nor the length of the setlist.

[Gideon]

I'm personally tired of the triple bills; get one good opener. They should throw Deen a couple of songs and do the duets with Jon. The last two times I saw them, people weren't really exuberant unless it was DSB, Open Arms, Faithfully, etc. A lot of the dirty dozen and Escape cuts fell somewhat flat. With that in mind, you might as well spam the set list with Eclipse, Revelation tunes and deeper cuts.

[Voyager]

I can only judge him on the stuff that is his, not the karaoke tribute act he and Augeri had to partake in every show to make their paychecks.

Amen. That's all it is... a karaoke tribute act.

Everybody is piting Pineda and Augeri against Perry, which is like pitting Elvis impersonators against Elvis. Nothing can ever top the original, because it was that original chemistry that made the hits.

I laugh when I read people say that Pineda is better than Perry. That is like saying an Elvis impersonator is better than Elvis.

[steveo777]

I can only judge him on the stuff that is his, not the karaoke tribute act he and Augeri had to partake in every show to make their paychecks.

Amen. That's all it is... a karaoke tribute act.

Everybody is piting Pineda and Augeri against Perry, which is like pitting Elvis impersonators against Elvis. Nothing can ever top the original, because it was that original chemistry that made the hits.

I laugh when I read people say that Pineda is better than Perry. That is like saying an Elvis impersonator is better than Elvis.

Too bad somewhere out of all this a great band can't be formed, where Arnel can just be Arnel. I think with the right elements Arnel can still find his way to greatness. He has a great voice, but he's been a chameleon for so long, sometimes I wonder what the real Arnel sounds like. Ya ya, some will probably say that if he were going to make something of himself, outside of Journey, he would have already done so. I can't help but think Neal and Deen have plans for Arnel down the road, post Journey.

[Voyager]

I can't help but think Neal and Deen have plans for Arnel down the road, post Journey.

No doubt... he will be pushing their wheelchairs around for them in the assisted living center. If not, he will lose his paycheck and Neal will find a replacement on YouTube... or Craigslist.

[Voyager]

AP is outpacing SA...

Perry whooped all their asses. What an insult to even compare Augeri or Pineda to Perry. He is the Voice, they are the impersonators. That is not an insult... just the facts. If it weren't for Perry, Journey wouldn't have needed to hire an impersonator to begin with.

(Not saying they did a bad job hiring impersonators. They aren't easy shoes to fill.)

[slucero]

Perry quit touring Journey songs at age 37, and effectively quit singing period at age 47 with TBF
Augeri quit touring Journey song at age 47

When comparing # of shows vs. age (I've inserted their ages), it's clear Arnels show count is already falling... and he is in that age range (for Journey singers) that is historically the "endpoint" fort their days touring Journey songs.

[Eric]

Just for record sake...JSS did aroudn 20 shows in 2007, too.

[slucero]

Just for record sake...JSS did aroudn 20 shows in 2007, too.

ya.. I took him out because he really wasn't relevant to the topic..

[yulog]

AP is outpacing SA...

He should be , he doesn't sing in the original key, hell he should almost be outpacing perry for that reason alone.

[Yoda]

It's amazing how singing these songs kills a voice. I'm still wondering how some of these guys like Mickey Thomas or Dennis DeYoung have been able to maintain strong live vocals?

[slucero]

It's amazing how singing these songs kills a voice. I'm still wondering how some of these guys like Mickey Thomas or Dennis DeYoung have been able to maintain strong live vocals?

Listen to their voices..

They are both high male tenors.. (as was Perry). If you have the time this is pretty good read; http://www.fabricationshq.com/steve-per ... ebook.html

Most of the singers who've replaced Perry are lower register male tenors..

The material that Mickey Thomas and Dennis DeYoung have had to sing over the course of their careers is also not as strenuous as the DD.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Just for the sake of meaningless accuracy, the 2004 tour was called the "Detour" tour.