Amazing

[JRNYMAN]

I've been pondering the nature of Jon and Neal's personal and professional relationship for some time.
Seems like Neal, who is all smiles and swagger on stage, ignores Cain despite Cain's attempts to work the stage and jam with him. I remember when Neal was on Facebook prior to the Salahi scandal and he posted pictures of a sweet guitar Jon got for him for his birthday.

Anyway, I wonder why Jon, who's probably a multi- multi- millionaire is even bothering if he's so bored.

I honestly believe Jon's respect and deep sentiment for what "Journey" represents as a whole is sincere and for that reason he feels he owes the machine that is Journey a debt of gratitude - enough so that he will see it through to the very end. He is, after all, the one who made the statements, "It's (Journey) bigger than any one of us alone." and "It provided the soundtrack to people's lives." And he was also the one who, after the last show before the breakup, (Anchorage or Fairbanks... can't remember at the moment... wasn't Juno...) stayed and signed autographs and hung out with the fans until the very last one had left and then broke into tears because he knew it was over. And although he is directly responsible in large part for the success of Journey via the blockbuster mega-hits he wrote, it was Journey that made him wealthy beyond anything he ever imagined and he respects that fact. Just my personal thoughts and feelings but....

[slucero]

IMHO... Jons favorite time in the band was when Perry was in it.. Perry was his main writing partner, someone who could sing Jon's melodies. Neals contribution was also important.. but I always got the impression that Jon and Perry had a lot more in common musically.

[JRNYMAN]

IMHO... Jons favorite time in the band was when Perry was in it.. Perry was his main writing partner, someone who could sing Jon's melodies. Neals contribution was also important.. but I always got the impression that Jon and Perry had a lot more in common musically.

Ditto.

[musicfan17]

For me...I'd like to see one more classic sounding Journey record before they hang it up. The only way I would go see them on tour live anymore is if they did a true farewell tour and/or by divine intervention got SP to join them onstage for a few gigs. Beyond that, I'm done paying for tickets to the same old tired *ss show.

[Eric]

What bothers me is they were still a creative band up until 2 years ago. 2009 had great setlists (new songs and the tweaked extended versions of hits) and they were playing some solo long shows and then created a new great energy album in Eclipse after that.

Then...2 straight years of GH on a triple bill??????

This year seems aimless.

[Lerxst101]

IMHO... Jons favorite time in the band was when Perry was in it.. Perry was his main writing partner, someone who could sing Jon's melodies. Neals contribution was also important.. but I always got the impression that Jon and Perry had a lot more in common musically.

Ditto.

I agree as well. I know it's a pipe-dream, but I always thought that Jon and Neal should set up some secret meetings with Steve to try and write again. Of course, the goal would be to create some great new Journey music, but I'd be happy if the material was used for a side project -- to take the pressure off of the songs having to be "Journey" songs (though what else could they be?...). Neal may have had the chance when he worked with Steve Smith -- perhaps a call to Perry to see if they could come up with something. Or at least get him involved in some way. I think one of Perry's greatest strengths was taking the ideas they came up with and meld them into a great song. The post-Perry Journey had some wonderful songs, but I have a strong feeling that if Steve could have put his hands on them (restructure, suggest better hooks, etc.), he could have brought them to another level. There was no strong voice to say, "Hey, a heavy or progressive song doesn't have to be long -- it has to be good!" But at the same time, I recognize that Perry's solo work plainly suffered a bit without Jon and/or Neal's input. Albeit, there were some great, soulful songs on Street Talk. But as Cain noted, the sum of the Journey parts is greater than the individuals. When the three of them got together, they really created magic. I hope there is still some chance that that could happen again.

[hoagiepete]

Agreeing with much of what is being said. I have seen the band (including all 4 singers) dozens of times since 1980 and too, tire of the dirty dozen and the band going through the motions, and still can't fully appreciate Arnel.

Having said that, the masses have not seen them 30 times, do not visit fan websites, and are not aware of the behind the scenes happenings of the band. Those of us here are an extremely small percentage of the Journey marketplace.

I write this because just this week my sister called to ask if I heard that Journey was coming to Kansas in August. She was so excited she could hardly stand it. She and her friends are pumped about the concert and will be thrilled hearing the DD. THAT is the majority of their market.

Well, I ended up buying tickets. Got great seats!. I will entertain a group of "40-something" ladies (not including my wife who is concerted out) and enjoy an evening of great music while watching the fans eat up one of the best bands ever, DD and all.

It would be nice to throw a couple of nuggets to the diehards, but I understand why they do what they do.

[Don]

What bothers me is they were still a creative band up until 2 years ago. 2009 had great setlists (new songs and the tweaked extended versions of hits) and they were playing some solo long shows and then created a new great energy album in Eclipse after that.

Then...2 straight years of GH on a triple bill??????

This year seems aimless.

I would say that 2008 was their pinnacle as far as touring with Arnel. He was a bit rough still but sounded better than he does today.They had a lively setlist, and the whole band looked happy to be there. I suckered myself into going again in 2011 thinking they might play AIP, as it was charting at the time. Four months after their new album was released and they played one track (COH). I knew then that would be my last show. 30 years forward and I was basically getting the same setlist I heard in 1982 and 83 (except now, it was downtuned).
If Journey had never released another album after ROR, I could have accepted it but simply acting as if that the last five albums don't exist is mind boggling. There are exceptions; I've seen bands like the Moody Blues who play their own dirty dozen but then again they don't have the amount of album releases post 2000 that Journey has. When the Moodies released their last album (December) in 2003, they played four songs from it in a 21 song setlist. And they played a song from the album prior to that release too (English Sunset). Not a well known song but at least something for the fans who had purchased Strange Times a few years prior.
For Journey, it's as if nothing exists post 1986 and it's a sad shame.

[musicfan17]

Don I agree with your post...where are the tunes off TBF, Arrival, Revelation and Eclipse...give me a couple of songs of of each of those albums and drop a couple of GH/DD tunes and then you'd have an updated setlist.

It's obvious now that all the energy and fire is gone....they really do seem to be just going through the motions lately.

[FamilyMan]

I've been pondering the nature of Jon and Neal's personal and professional relationship for some time.
Seems like Neal, who is all smiles and swagger on stage, ignores Cain despite Cain's attempts to work the stage and jam with him. I remember when Neal was on Facebook prior to the Salahi scandal and he posted pictures of a sweet guitar Jon got for him for his birthday.

Anyway, I wonder why Jon, who's probably a multi- multi- millionaire is even bothering if he's so bored.

To be fair, if you go back and look at the Escape or Frontiers tour footage, Jon was never Angus Young onstage. He always appeared somewhat aloof during his performances. It's his style. The alternative was that embarrassing Keytar phase he was in for ROR. I'll take the Jon we get today vs. that anyday!

[Don]

I've been pondering the nature of Jon and Neal's personal and professional relationship for some time.
Seems like Neal, who is all smiles and swagger on stage, ignores Cain despite Cain's attempts to work the stage and jam with him. I remember when Neal was on Facebook prior to the Salahi scandal and he posted pictures of a sweet guitar Jon got for him for his birthday.

Anyway, I wonder why Jon, who's probably a multi- multi- millionaire is even bothering if he's so bored.

To be fair, if you go back and look at the Escape or Frontiers tour footage, Jon was never Angus Young onstage. He always appeared somewhat aloof during his performances. It's his style. The alternative was that embarrassing Keytar phase he was in for ROR. I'll take the Jon we get today vs. that anyday!

I was sitting behind the stage in 1982 (back when arenas had that kind of seating) and Jon was always clapping towards us or fist pumping so I think it's fair to say he wasn't always like he is now. I can't say how he was in 1983 as I was really just too far away at the JFK concert but for both shows I saw during the Escape tour, he seemed happy to be there.

[jrny84]

IMHO... Jons favorite time in the band was when Perry was in it.. Perry was his main writing partner, someone who could sing Jon's melodies. Neals contribution was also important.. but I always got the impression that Jon and Perry had a lot more in common musically.

Ditto.

I agree as well. I know it's a pipe-dream, but I always thought that Jon and Neal should set up some secret meetings with Steve to try and write again. Of course, the goal would be to create some great new Journey music, but I'd be happy if the material was used for a side project -- to take the pressure off of the songs having to be "Journey" songs (though what else could they be?...). Neal may have had the chance when he worked with Steve Smith -- perhaps a call to Perry to see if they could come up with something. Or at least get him involved in some way. I think one of Perry's greatest strengths was taking the ideas they came up with and meld them into a great song. The post-Perry Journey had some wonderful songs, but I have a strong feeling that if Steve could have put his hands on them (restructure, suggest better hooks, etc.), he could have brought them to another level. There was no strong voice to say, "Hey, a heavy or progressive song doesn't have to be long -- it has to be good!" But at the same time, I recognize that Perry's solo work plainly suffered a bit without Jon and/or Neal's input. Albeit, there were some great, soulful songs on Street Talk. But as Cain noted, the sum of the Journey parts is greater than the individuals. When the three of them got together, they really created magic. I hope there is still some chance that that could happen again.

I agree here too. I have become bored with the Arnel fronted band, just not the same Journey. I like Arnel and feel he is a great singer, but I cant help myself yearning for the Perry fronted Journey and all the chemistry and friction that made this band a huge success. What Cain, Perry, and Schon did musically together is something that just cant be replicated and anything else seems like a cheap spinoff. I have enjoyed some of the post Perry albums such as Arrival and Revelation, but at this point I only really have interest in experiencing the magic of Cain, Perry, and Schon. The best thing Journey could do now is try and get a reunion/farewell tour going with Perry, Schon, Valory, and Smith. I know its a pipe dream, but thats where I am right now. I crave to see these guys together and truly watch how they feed off eachother. This band just seems like its missing one of its main parts and without that part, the machine just doesn't run to its full working potential.

You know it says alot when Ann Wilson on there last tour with Journey in an article said how the concert experience would be totally complete if Steve Perry was along for the ride.

[slucero]

This pretty much explains now much Perry meant to Cains writing.... (credit to Jeremey Hunsicker: http://www.jeremeyhunsicker.com/this-co ... #more-1109 )

...Cain, who is telling a story about the recording session for “Faithfully,” one of the biggest selling hits of Journey’s career …

“Perry wouldn’t let me in the studio while he was recording,” he says, referring to the band’s reclusive ex-lead singer.

“So we had the whole song finished. We had all recorded our parts, and I had done a demo vocal for the melody … but you know, it was just my melody … the notes I wrote on the piano …… and Steve said he really wanted to do something special with the song.”

Cain is a quiet dude – but he’s passionate about music – he wears his heart on his sleeve.

He sets down his fork and lays his hands down in his lap.

“The very last day, Steve brings me into the studio, and they play me the song with his vocal. And I just sat there stunned … and when it was over, I start bawling like a little baby.”

“It was like – he had taken this simple melody I had written and he just …”

… His voice lowers and for a moment he seems at a loss for words.

“He just took it to a higher place.

I mean … it just soared.”

[JRNYMAN]

You know it says alot when Ann Wilson on there last tour with Journey in an article said how the concert experience would be totally complete if Steve Perry was along for the ride.

And she says that not having ever toured with Perry. From what has been said by band members and especially Herbie, He's the worst person to tour with. So irritable and whiny and complains, complains, complains. Knowing what we do about his prima dona mindset I really don't think I'd want to have to deal with him 24/7 for 6, 8, 10 months.

[Don]

You know it says alot when Ann Wilson on there last tour with Journey in an article said how the concert experience would be totally complete if Steve Perry was along for the ride.

And she says that not having ever toured with Perry. From what has been said by band members and especially Herbie, He's the worst person to tour with. So irritable and whiny and complains, complains, complains. Knowing what we do about his prima dona mindset I really don't think I'd want to have to deal with him 24/7 for 6, 8, 10 months.

People said the same thing about Pat Benatar but i didn't hear any complaints from Journey's last tour. Never read anything from Greg Kihn, Loverboy, Glass Tiger or any band Journey toured with about any of the Journey band members being assholes or prima donnas. Probably because there was nothing to complain about. Different buses, different rooms, different everything except the same stage.
As for Herbie, we've heard from the other band members how Perry was the only one with the balls to go up against him when HH tried to get a larger percentage of the band's gross profits.
Is it any wonder then that El Blimpo has an axe to grind?

[jrny84]

You know it says alot when Ann Wilson on there last tour with Journey in an article said how the concert experience would be totally complete if Steve Perry was along for the ride.

And she says that not having ever toured with Perry. From what has been said by band members and especially Herbie, He's the worst person to tour with. So irritable and whiny and complains, complains, complains. Knowing what we do about his prima dona mindset I really don't think I'd want to have to deal with him 24/7 for 6, 8, 10 months.

Ill take my chances. Neal running around the United States with the white house crasher is any better? Talk about drama 101. At least Perry isn't that stupid. That whole thing was a joke.

You know it says alot when Ann Wilson on there last tour with Journey in an article said how the concert experience would be totally complete if Steve Perry was along for the ride.

And she says that not having ever toured with Perry. From what has been said by band members and especially Herbie, He's the worst person to tour with. So irritable and whiny and complains, complains, complains. Knowing what we do about his prima dona mindset I really don't think I'd want to have to deal with him 24/7 for 6, 8, 10 months.

People said the same thing about Pat Benatar but i didn't hear any complaints from Journey's last tour. Never read anything from Greg Kihn, Loverboy, Glass Tiger or any band Journey toured with about any of the Journey band members being assholes or prima donnas. Probably because there was nothing to complain about. Different buses, different rooms, different everything except the same stage.
As for Herbie, we've heard from the other band members how Perry was the only one with the balls to go up against him when HH tried to get a larger percentage of the band's gross profits.
Is it any wonder then that El Blimpo has an axe to grind?

Exactly. Its alot of hear say too. You know how many times I have heard that same story about a front man in Band X? Most of these guys are pre maddonnas and pretty spoiled...Take your pick.

[The_Noble_Cause]

As for Herbie, we've heard from the other band members how Perry was the only one with the balls to go up against him when HH tried to get a larger percentage of the band's gross profits.
Is it any wonder then that El Blimpo has an axe to grind?

Why wouldn't the manager take a larger cut of the profits, especially one as hands-on as HH? He did everything, booking venues, wheeling and dealing w/ promoters, even helping to design the LP cover art and sequence the albums. Without him, the band is/was lost. The years 1998-now, show what happens when you have a hands-off manager who simply doesn't give a damn.

[Don]

As for Herbie, we've heard from the other band members how Perry was the only one with the balls to go up against him when HH tried to get a larger percentage of the band's gross profits.
Is it any wonder then that El Blimpo has an axe to grind?

Why wouldn't the manager take a larger cut of the profits, especially one as hands-on as HH? He did everything, booking venues, wheeling and dealing w/ promoters, even helping to design the LP cover art and sequence the albums. Without him, the band is/was lost. The years 1998-now, show what happens when you have a hands-off manager who simply doesn't give a damn.

He was already getting a bigger cut, that's what managers do. It's a percentage; the band made more money, he made more money. Why should they have let him add to that?

[annie89509]

You know it says alot when Ann Wilson on there last tour with Journey in an article said how the concert experience would be totally complete if Steve Perry was along for the ride.

And she says that not having ever toured with Perry. From what has been said by band members and especially Herbie, He's the worst person to tour with. So irritable and whiny and complains, complains, complains. Knowing what we do about his prima dona mindset I really don't think I'd want to have to deal with him 24/7 for 6, 8, 10 months.

People said the same thing about Pat Benatar but i didn't hear any complaints from Journey's last tour. Never read anything from Greg Kihn, Loverboy, Glass Tiger or any band Journey toured with about any of the Journey band members being assholes or prima donnas. Probably because there was nothing to complain about. Different buses, different rooms, different everything except the same stage.
As for Herbie, we've heard from the other band members how Perry was the only one with the balls to go up against him when HH tried to get a larger percentage of the band's gross profits.
Is it any wonder then that El Blimpo has an axe to grind?

Or Bryan Adams. Someone asked him once what it was like touring and opening for Journey (in the early '80s), when he was just starting out, trying to make a name for himself. Bryan was very complimentary, said he learned a lot, and remembered SP as a class act. The two, being singers, had something in common.

[jrny84]

Or Bryan Adams. Someone asked him once what it was like touring and opening for Journey (in the early '80s), when he was just starting out, trying to make a name for himself. Bryan was very complimentary, said he learned a lot, and remembered SP as a class act. The two, being singers, had something in common.

Good point. Bryan Adams refuses to tour with Journey, because Steve Perry is no longer the frontman. If Steve was that bad to tour with, why would Bryan Adams only tour with Journey if its with Perry?

[Eric]

Or Bryan Adams. Someone asked him once what it was like touring and opening for Journey (in the early '80s), when he was just starting out, trying to make a name for himself. Bryan was very complimentary, said he learned a lot, and remembered SP as a class act. The two, being singers, had something in common.

Good point. Bryan Adams refuses to tour with Journey, because Steve Perry is no longer the frontman. If Steve was that bad to tour with, why would Bryan Adams only tour with Journey if its with Perry?

HOOOH! I hope that's not true! He's an opener for Journey no matter the singer.

[Eric]

Agreeing with much of what is being said. I have seen the band (including all 4 singers) dozens of times since 1980 and too, tire of the dirty dozen and the band going through the motions, and still can't fully appreciate Arnel.

Having said that, the masses have not seen them 30 times, do not visit fan websites, and are not aware of the behind the scenes happenings of the band. Those of us here are an extremely small percentage of the Journey marketplace.

I write this because just this week my sister called to ask if I heard that Journey was coming to Kansas in August. She was so excited she could hardly stand it. She and her friends are pumped about the concert and will be thrilled hearing the DD. THAT is the majority of their market.

Well, I ended up buying tickets. Got great seats!. I will entertain a group of "40-something" ladies (not including my wife who is concerted out) and enjoy an evening of great music while watching the fans eat up one of the best bands ever, DD and all.

It would be nice to throw a couple of nuggets to the diehards, but I understand why they do what they do.

You're 100% right and its a good reminder for us hardcore to hear.

However, this still doesn't explain playing Dead or Alive instead of something new. OR, the band lacking energy that bei g creative gives them.

[RPM]

Journey is on tour. And there is absolutely no buzz on this forum about anything beyond a set list.
What is the world coming to? Is this the end?

The end happened many years ago...................................

[Kor'n]

As for Herbie, we've heard from the other band members how Perry was the only one with the balls to go up against him when HH tried to get a larger percentage of the band's gross profits.
Is it any wonder then that El Blimpo has an axe to grind?

Why wouldn't the manager take a larger cut of the profits, especially one as hands-on as HH? He did everything, booking venues, wheeling and dealing w/ promoters, even helping to design the LP cover art and sequence the albums. Without him, the band is/was lost. The years 1998-now, show what happens when you have a hands-off manager who simply doesn't give a damn.

"With him" the band was lost from 73-78 until Perry came along. Sony was going to kick out him along with the rest b/c he could NOT deliver. Seems Santana got rid of that useless bag of wind, then came Journey, and Sony was about to do the same. Managers suppose to do those things, but not rip off clients while doing. Perry has been gone since 1998. If Perry had stayed along with Azoff - look at the Eagles, Van Halen, Fleetwood Mac. They don't hogged the road and travel in packages with a karaoke singer.

"Herbie you got to let us go." 1995/Cain/Behind the Music

Now that's no way to talk to the man who "did everything", but maybe it was just easy to find a man that could orchestrate loading equipment on tour buses or big wheelers while "taking a larger cut of the profits," excessively "hands on" maybe....

Read one year (2010/11) at Billboard that Azoff was the top dog in the field. Where is Herbie? Maybe vacationing, but surely not with Perry, hopefully, or watch out for the dagger, Perry.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Seems Santana got rid of that useless bag of wind, then came Journey, and Sony was about to do the same.

Herbie was not Santana's manager. Spare us the history lessons, if you don't know the history.

Read one year (2010/11) at Billboard that Azoff was the top dog in the field.

Big difference between being profitable and creating a legacy. The reason this forum has such passionate fans is because of Herbie's efforts.

[slucero]

No Herbie = No Journey

nuff said.

[SusieP]

As you know the Perry fronted Band only came to the UK once, and I was too young to attend.
They did come here with SA and JSS, and now Arnel.
I'm not interested in seeing the Arnel fronted band either, and so I haven't. I did buy the album Arnel debuted on but to this day I have not played the re recorded CD that came with it. I thought the album was ok but not spectacular and I haven't spent money on anything else Journey related since.

I'm posting because, a young lady I know went to see their recent show in Nottingham.
And she told me that Journey closed the show and that a large section of the audience left the arena after Whitesnake had done and didn't wait to even hear Journey.

She and her boyfriend stayed to watch - but they are young and are only really familiar with Don't Stop Believing, so they watched the Band with unbiased eyes and ears.
Her take........
the lead singer looks about twenty years old and the rest of the Band look like elderly waxworks creaking about on stage with him. They look ridiculous and should call it a day.

Strangely, she didn't think that about David Coverdale! She did say he kept grabbing his crotch though which was 'UGH!'



I still have respect for the guys' musical talent, and thank them all for giving me so many years of enjoyable music, but I still hate how they shafted JSS and how they let SA's voice get ruined etc.

If Mr Perry was to get his arse back on stage and sing live [in the UK] I'd probably pay to see it, but unless that happens, I won't be bothering.

And now Neal has associated himself with a 'reality tv' personality who seems to feed on being in the tabloids and trash magazines etc, my respect for him is fading further and further away.

I'm starting to think, great guitarist but......so what. Who cares.

[scarygirl]

The new Ms. Yoko Skanko.

nd now Neal has associated himself with a 'reality tv' personality who seems to feed on being in the tabloids and trash magazines etc, my respect for him is fading further and further away.

[Kor'n]

Seems Santana got rid of that useless bag of wind, then came Journey, and Sony was about to do the same.

Herbie was not Santana's manager. Spare us the history lessons, if you don't know the history.

I know "the history" as well as "The Noble" Contender. Read up on it....

Read one year (2010/11) at Billboard that Azoff was the top dog in the field.

Big difference between being profitable and creating a legacy. The reason this forum has such passionate fans is because of Herbie's efforts.....

"Big difference between being profitable and creating a legacy" with bands (Eagles, Van Halen, Fleetwood Mack) that maintained their status quo by not going karaoke. "The reason [Steve Perry halted all that touring] is because of Herbie's efforts." Take Steve Perry out of the mix, and old Herbie would have been kicked out by Sony with the rest. Check out the debut of Lights and "WITS" and tell us again how your "Herbie worked hard to get radio play." They toured onward like crazy, and your Herbie was upset when Perry wanted to stop. "Don't know why they could not tour after Frontiers," according to your Herbie.

Like I said, guess it was easy to find someone to orchestrate loading your tour vans, buses or big wheelers.

"Herbie, you got to let us go." Cain

No Herbie = No Journey

nuff said.

"Journey believin with the Filipino Steve Perry sound-alike." RS 2008

"If a band sticks around long enough it turns into a tribute band. For years Journey has logged around the oldies circuit with a rotating cast of singers trying to impersonate Steve Perry....." RS 2008

Not a bad set list...for a cover band.

[slucero]

Dude.. since you claim to know your Journey history.. then you'd also know that Herbie pretty much invented point of sale marketing at record stores, along with pre-show promotions like radio, tv and record store appearances..

The band were the music-makers

Herbie was the music-marketer, and the the Journey marketing machine was all orchestrated by Herbie, 24/7/365...

Ask Lora or Cyndy.. they were right in the middle of it.