Who Made Steve Perry Not Feel A Part Of Journey?

[scarab]

Perry sang just fine in the two shows I went to solo. Yes he did sound bad during the Billy Graham show. But not singing for probably months on end did not help it.
I am sure his voice did not hold him back from touring on TBF.
It would be very hard fo "fake" a hip replacement.
He sounded just fine on "I Stand Alone", so obviously he could still sing in the late 90s.

[Monker]

Perry sang just fine in the two shows I went to solo. Yes he did sound bad during the Billy Graham show. But not singing for probably months on end did not help it.
I am sure his voice did not hold him back from touring on TBF.
It would be very hard fo "fake" a hip replacement.
He sounded just fine on "I Stand Alone", so obviously he could still sing in the late 90s.

Sorry, but all of that is opinion.

The fact is he bailed on the second ROR tour.
He started canceling numerous dates toward the end of FTLOSM tour.
So, really, he hasn't been able to tour extensively without vocal issues since the Frontiers tour in 1984.
The fact is he had to lower the songs on the Bill Graham tribute down two full steps.

"I Stand Alone" may have sounded 'just fine' to YOU, but IMO, it sounded like he struggled through the whole song to hold his voice together and not crack. His voice sounded very 'rough'. It was no where near 'effortless' as it used to be prior to ROR. That song would have soared into something special in 1983...but it just didn't do that.

So, yes, Herbie had a LOT of reasons to believe Perry would not tour for the reunion. I remember back then there were a few months of no news about the reunion...and then Perry had an interview where HE said there was a debate whether to tour first, or record first...and that is why there was the delay. It would be nice to know who was on what side of that debate...and I wonder what Azoff and Sony wanted.

[slucero]

Perry sang just fine in the two shows I went to solo. Yes he did sound bad during the Billy Graham show. But not singing for probably months on end did not help it.
I am sure his voice did not hold him back from touring on TBF.
It would be very hard fo "fake" a hip replacement.
He sounded just fine on "I Stand Alone", so obviously he could still sing in the late 90s.

Sorry, but all of that is opinion.

The fact is he bailed on the second ROR tour.
He started canceling numerous dates toward the end of FTLOSM tour.
So, really, he hasn't been able to tour extensively without vocal issues since the Frontiers tour in 1984.
The fact is he had to lower the songs on the Bill Graham tribute down two full steps.

"I Stand Alone" may have sounded 'just fine' to YOU, but IMO, it sounded like he struggled through the whole song to hold his voice together and not crack. His voice sounded very 'rough'. It was no where near 'effortless' as it used to be prior to ROR. That song would have soared into something special in 1983...but it just didn't do that.

So, yes, Herbie had a LOT of reasons to believe Perry would not tour for the reunion. I remember back then there were a few months of no news about the reunion...and then Perry had an interview where HE said there was a debate whether to tour first, or record first...and that is why there was the delay. It would be nice to know who was on what side of that debate...and I wonder what Azoff and Sony wanted.

odd thing is now there are modern medical techniques that can reverse some of the physical damage done to a voice (although the effect of aging cannot be reversed)..

John Meyer is a good example of this.

I wonder if Perry has availed himself of voice docs and the latest in medical advances...


That IS, of course, if he ever really intended to sing professionally again..

[Aaron]

Steve Perry and no one else. The dude was the king and muscled his way to run that band. If he didn't feel part of the band after all of that he needs to look in the mirror and ask himself why he didn't drive more of a concensus with the band on big decisions. I'm not a fan of victim syndrome. The dude is Christ on a Mic but to think he was not calling all of the shots in the end is utter bullshit. If he didn't feel part of the band he need to works harder and take the other members input into the decision making process. Anyone who has the influence to fire Steve Smith and Ross Valory and doesn't feel part of the band is playing the victim card and I'm not biting.

Steve Perry, THE BEST VOCALIST ON THE PLANET, drop the emotional, teenage drama bullshit, victim card player player, and go forward taking responsibility for what happened, own it as a leader, and fix it. You have the keys, you always have. The only person to blame in Journey not currently having your voice is the person you see in the mirror.

Man up, lead it, call Schon, Rolie and Cain up, man up to your mistakes, ask them to participate in going another round and make it happen before we're all dead. Leaders have to man up, admit their mistakes, and put the first pole in the water on moving forward.

[steveo777]

Steve Perry and no one else. The dude was the king and muscled his way to run that band. If he didn't feel part of the band after all of that he needs to look in the mirror and ask himself why he didn't drive more of a concensus with the band on big decisions. I'm not a fan of victim syndrome. The dude is Christ on a Mic but to think he was not calling all of the shots in the end is utter bullshit. If he didn't feel part of the band he need to works harder and take the other members input into the decision making process. Anyone who has the influence to fire Steve Smith and Ross Valory and doesn't feel part of the band is playing the victim card and I'm not biting.

Steve Perry, THE BEST VOCALIST ON THE PLANET, drop the emotional, teenage drama bullshit, victim card player player, and go forward taking responsibility for what happened, own it as a leader, and fix it. You have the keys, you always have. The only person to blame in Journey not currently having your voice is the person you see in the mirror.

Man up, lead it, call Schon, Rolie and Cain up, man up to your mistakes, ask them to participate in going another round and make it happen before we're all dead. Leaders have to man up, admit their mistakes, and put the first pole in the water on moving forward.

Fuck an A, did you say it! Last part, though, I think Steve could do all of it, except sing. The writing process should still be possible and Arnel could handle the vocals or they could trade off when the notes get too high....then there's always a carrier in Deen. It could work.

[The_Noble_Cause]

EXACTLY....this Jonathan quote is being taken completely out of context. Again, for the billionth time, Journey was set to continue on without Perry and with Gregg and Kevin Chalfant in the band. They had a band meeting on one of the canceled FTLOSM tour dates to decide the bands future...what the lineup was going to be. Essentially, Journey was together, writing and making a new future. Perry was out recording and touring solo....until Sony starts throwing "reunion" money into the mix and wanting Perry back. STEVE PERRY demanded the firing of Herbie, Gregg Rolie, and of Chalfant.

So, from the band meeting, they took the reunion money and brought Perry back...and the casualties of that were Herbie, Rolie, and Chalfant. Herbie's reaction (in the Castle's Burning interview) was to warn Neal that there would never be a tour. He KNEW Perry's voice was gone. If failed during the ROR tour. It failed again during the FTLOSM tour...and it sounded like shit during the Bill Graham tribute. So, STEVE PERRY completely screwed the band, Herbie, and Sony, too. And, left the band in the situation of starting completely over with replacing him...but this time without Herbie, and Gregg and Chalfant being alienated.

Even if you don't believe Herbie and what he says about Perry having NO intention of touring...Perry is still an asshole for demanding the firing of Journey's life long manager, and a founding member. That is just a fact.

IMO (OPNION), the entire scenario above is the start of the trend of Neal and the band caring more about the $'s then about the camaraderie of the band itself. There is something to be said about a true band of brothers who WANT to work together, instead of a band smashed together by the label to try to replicate the Eagles "Hell Freezes Over" success...which is what they tried to do. Journey could have had a bright future with Herbie, Gregg, and Chalfant...but they traded that slow and steady future for a one off check and then uncertainty. And, they did it again with the Wal-Mart deal and 'legacy sound' crap that Neal was never into...and then turning their back on that with Eclipse. But, all of the money grabbing greed started with the TBF reunion that didn't have to happen.

So, "you have to let us go." Yeah, Herbie had to let them go...because the band and Sony wanted a reunion paycheck, and Steve Perry DEMANDED that Herbie leave or he wouldn't join. And, Herbie's response to that was, "it was the last act of love that I could give to them." So, the reality is, Herbie is the only one of this crazy crowd, Perry, the rest of the band, Sony, Kalodner, etc who was NOT acting like a greedy and demanding asshole. Well, OK, Gregg and Chalfant too...but they didn't have much choice.

Herbie is smart..and experienced. IMO, he KNEW this was a no win situation. He could have fought it, refused to leave, tried to get the lineup he wanted. But, to what end? A pissed off label that wouldn't support the album? A pissed off band that felt they missed out on their big paycheck? The winning move was to not play the damn game any longer, walk away and tell them all they are a bunch of fucking whining idiots who deserve the crazy dysfunctional future they were about to enter. He didn't need to do it any longer either.

Great re-cap.

[BRETT5150]

He comes over as being a whiner I think, and he wanted too many things his way. That's how he comes across....

[Rick]

Nobody but Steve Perry made him feel that way. He had total control and yet he made a statement like that.

Have to agree. Being a perfectionist is a lonely road.

Seems like so many bands have that perfectionist.

[Rick]

Steve Perry and no one else. He called all of the shots and wasn't part of the band? That would suggest lack of leadership skills.

Do you mean "lack of leadership skills" like those CEOs that do not necessarily fraternize with the common folks, but still manage to run the company.

That want to be "jam band" made his life unhappy, but they were so kind to Steve A, who obeyed their every "lipping" demand, weren' they......

Can you stop posting, please? Because you're an idiot.

[Kor'n]

Steve Perry and no one else. He called all of the shots and wasn't part of the band? That would suggest lack of leadership skills.

Do you mean "lack of leadership skills" like those CEOs that do not necessarily fraternize with the common folks, but still manage to run the company.

That want to be "jam band" made his life unhappy, but they were so kind to Steve A, who obeyed their every "lipping" demand, weren' they......

Can you stop posting, please? Because you're an idiot.

Oh Gee!!! Looks like we got another TNC. Surprising coming from you, for I would have thought you had better sense than going the name calling route; guess I was wrong, but guess that's how it goes when you have NOTHING else logical to say.... You should know by now that does NOT faze me a bit, and that kinda name calling is not in my repertoire, for I can rip (rein in people) without it. By the way, who died an appointed you Chairman of the Board.... Take your own advice!!!

[Kor'n]

He comes over as being a whiner I think, and he wanted too many things his way. That's how he comes across....

Do you mean like Greg Rollie whining 30 years later about "Steve Perry did not like me singing."... Seems NO one else at the shop was beating down doors to get Greg to the mic. Guess they knew what "buttered their biscuit," after all they are karaoking it today.

There is a word called "NO" that those greedy original band starters could have used anytime, if they felt the guy who took them to the top was asking too much.

[The_Noble_Cause]

There is a word called "NO" that those greedy original band starters could have used anytime, if they felt the guy who took them to the top was asking too much.

They did. They picked up the phone and told Perry, "No, we can't wait for you any longer." Go butter that biscuit, ass troll.

[Kor'n]

There is a word called "NO" that those greedy original band starters could have used anytime, if they felt the guy who took them to the top was asking too much.

They did. They picked up the phone and told Perry, "No, we can't wait for you any longer." Go butter that biscuit, ass troll.

Cain "picked" up the phone and told Perry they "were rehearsing others singers and there were big shoes to fill" while Neal listened on the other end. Your "biscuit is buttered."

[Kor'n]

Perry wouldn't have BEEN in Journey if it wasnt' for Herbie.. Everything else happened as a consequence of that.

As much as we all know you hate it.. even your endless revisionist comments can't change that one simple fact.

Steve Perry would NOT have been in Journey if Sony had NOT sent over his demos to Herbie. Like Herbie said he had been hearing about SP "in and out." Something to that effect, so what is your point... You speak as though Herbie wanted to do him a favor. Herbie was just trying to "save his own skin." He would have been kicked out along with the band.

"As much as [i] 'know you hate it.. even your endless revisionist comments can't change that one simple fact."

It's pretty clear that Herbie was trying to save all their skins.

..and LMFAO... kicked out by whom?

Journey was incorporated... and since Herbie was manager and 1/6th owner.. the only way Herbie could have been "kicked out" was for the Board of Journey (the band plus Herbie) to vote to fire him as manager... (nice that you forgot it was Perry who engineered Herbie's "departure")

Herbie would STILL have been an owner. He'd have to AGREE to his share being bought out...

They were all in it together... and in Herbie's role as their manager he made the business decisions.. the band made the music.

The direction the label wanted was a band with a front man... they tried Fleischman, then Perry...

EXACTLY....this Jonathan quote is being taken completely out of context. Again, for the billionth time, Journey was set to continue on without Perry and with Gregg and Kevin Chalfant in the band. They had a band meeting on one of the canceled FTLOSM tour dates to decide the bands future...what the lineup was going to be. Essentially, Journey was together, writing and making a new future. Perry was out recording and touring solo....until Sony starts throwing "reunion" money into the mix and wanting Perry back. STEVE PERRY demanded the firing of Herbie, Gregg Rolie, and of Chalfant.

And NONE of that matters. Cain to Herbie "You got to let us go" - did not feel he was that valuable. Steve Perry did NOT start the band and did NOT put a gun to any heads. If those greedy guys in the band did not like what was going on or what Sony was doing, the sign above the door reads "EXIT."

So, from the band meeting, they took the reunion money and brought Perry back...and the casualties of that were Herbie, Rolie, and Chalfant. Herbie's reaction (in the Castle's Burning interview) was to warn Neal that there would never be a tour. He KNEW Perry's voice was gone. If failed during the ROR tour. It failed again during the FTLOSM tour...and it sounded like shit during the Bill Graham tribute. So, STEVE PERRY completely screwed the band, Herbie, and Sony, too. And, left the band in the situation of starting completely over with replacing him...but this time without Herbie, and Gregg and Chalfant being alienated.

You speak as though Herbie was so privy to "Revelations" that NO one else could have possibly known. Are you calling Neal and Jon stupid or greedy or both? Steve Perry sounded just fine at that Bill Graham tribute, and Rolling Stone has posted that performance several times. Just because you are preset as to how Journey should sound does not mean that everyone else must oblige. Voices do change.

Steve Perry toured heavily from 1978 to Frontiers then with ROR and all you and others know to do his bash him. He put them on the map, seemingly at his expense, and they are karaoking today; so there is no reason for complaint about Steve Perry. The voice is not like the fingers. "I want to be what the fans want me to be." SP 2008

Herbie, Gregg nor Chalfant are with the band today, and they all are either griping about Steve Perry and/or starting their own karaoke show like Chalfant. Did I read earlier that karaoke Chalfant is starting to sing the Journey tunes. All trying to make a living off of aping or bashing Steve Perry. SP should have patented his voice.

Even if you don't believe Herbie and what he says about Perry having NO intention of touring...Perry is still an asshole for demanding the firing of Journey's life long manager, and a founding member. That is just a fact.

Steve Perry toured enough and that "unabashed capitalists" - "would not let up on scheduling." (SP/2012) And, where is the smoking gun that he used in his "demanding the firing of Journey's life long" self-proclaimed "unabashed capitalist.".... If he did demand such, the others could have overruled him if they felt Herbie ("like a father to Neal" and the one who orchestrated loading tour buses and big wheelers) was an invaluable asset to them. "That is just a fact."

IMO (OPNION), the entire scenario above is the start of the trend of Neal and the band caring more about the $'s then about the camaraderie of the band itself. There is something to be said about a true band of brothers who WANT to work together, instead of a band smashed together by the label to try to replicate the Eagles "Hell Freezes Over" success...which is what they tried to do. Journey could have had a bright future with Herbie, Gregg, and Chalfant...but they traded that slow and steady future for a one off check and then uncertainty. And, they did it again with the Wal-Mart deal and 'legacy sound' crap that Neal was never into...and then turning their back on that with Eclipse. But, all of the money grabbing greed started with the TBF reunion that didn't have to happen.

"IMO (OPNION)", [sic] there is probably not much to that "true band of brothers who WANT TO work together" and maybe it does not matter. Look at how big the "Eagles" are and wasn't "Hell Freezes Over" in reference to their relationship at one point, and they are still making big millions today, and their 2007 album sold millions without karaoke re-recording.

Journey would have gone straight downhill with "Herbie, Gregg and Chalfant" and the label knew and had ZERO interest in it. Karaoke Steve A. was not exactly a slouch, and there was JSS, but they have gone bonafide insulting karaoke today. Journey could have not toured so much and still had Steve Perry with them today with label interest, but now they only have the road with Sony and no one else having ZERO interest in them. Time has shown that Journey went no where before Steve Perry and are going no where after him.

Neal, who has ZERO pull power, has been at it since 15 and has never achieved the stardom, he HIMSELF, thinks he deserve and he NEVER will so he knows the routes (Santana reunion, etc.) he has to take to stay somewhat afloat till the end. "Turning their back" on anything different from karaoke is what they will do till the end. Unlike, Eclipse, TBF went platinum and Sony was a happy camper, unlike Walmart.

So, "you have to let us go." Yeah, Herbie had to let them go...because the band and Sony wanted a reunion paycheck, and Steve Perry DEMANDED that Herbie leave or he wouldn't join. And, Herbie's response to that was, "it was the last act of love that I could give to them." So, the reality is, Herbie is the only one of this crazy crowd, Perry, the rest of the band, Sony, Kalodner, etc who was NOT acting like a greedy and demanding asshole. Well, OK, Gregg and Chalfant too...but they didn't have much choice.

Where is the gun that Steve Perry used when he "DEMANDED."... They got rid of the one they felt was least valuable. Herbie is the self-proclaimed "unabashed capitalists" whom they felt was not an invaluable asset and to his dismay, they ended his reign and he has NOT returned. He is bitter and bickering just like Gregg ("SP did not like me singing.") how many years later, and Steve Perry seemingly NEVER utters bad words of them. He keeps his distance with silence of the bitter times he experienced when "he never really felt like he was a part of the band." He realizes that "life goes on" if you let go of the past and let it. "There is more to life than singing and touring." SP 9/2013

Herbie is smart..and experienced. IMO, he KNEW this was a no win situation. He could have fought it, refused to leave, tried to get the lineup he wanted. But, to what end? A pissed off label that wouldn't support the album? A pissed off band that felt they missed out on their big paycheck? The winning move was to not play the damn game any longer, walk away and tell them all they are a bunch of fucking whining idiots who deserve the crazy dysfunctional future they were about to enter. He didn't need to do it any longer either.

Sony was/is the big dog and after Steve Perry hit the scene and took the band to unbelievable heights, Sony was NOT interested in Herbie's thoughts of the "lineup he wanted." He had his chance from 1973 - 1978 pre-Perry to deliver and he FAILED! The "crazy dysfunctional" one ended his reign with an interview called "Castles Burning."

"They can get people to sound like Steve Perry, but they are not Steve Perry that intangible they have been missing since his departure 1998." 2010

[slucero]

lmao....

Even Perry would tell you to get over it.

[Kor'n]

lmao....

Even Perry would tell you to get over it.

Maybe, but would have to know what to get over.

Is this a board of what....

Any more comments!

"lm[ ]o"

[Monker]

There is a word called "NO" that those greedy original band starters could have used anytime, if they felt the guy who took them to the top was asking too much.

They did. They picked up the phone and told Perry, "No, we can't wait for you any longer." Go butter that biscuit, ass troll.

And, Perry didn't take them to the top....Herbie did. It was Herbie's leadership that led them to the success of Escape and Frontiers.

Perry's leadership took them to the toilet with ROR, a ten year absense, then a reunion that stalled and went nowhere, in the end.

[Monker]

There is a word called "NO" that those greedy original band starters could have used anytime, if they felt the guy who took them to the top was asking too much.

They did. They picked up the phone and told Perry, "No, we can't wait for you any longer." Go butter that biscuit, ass troll.

Cain "picked" up the phone and told Perry they "were rehearsing others singers and there were big shoes to fill" while Neal listened on the other end. Your "biscuit is buttered."

It doesn't really matter because Steve Perry never felt like part of the band anyway.

[Monker]

EXACTLY....this Jonathan quote is being taken completely out of context. Again, for the billionth time, Journey was set to continue on without Perry and with Gregg and Kevin Chalfant in the band. They had a band meeting on one of the canceled FTLOSM tour dates to decide the bands future...what the lineup was going to be. Essentially, Journey was together, writing and making a new future. Perry was out recording and touring solo....until Sony starts throwing "reunion" money into the mix and wanting Perry back. STEVE PERRY demanded the firing of Herbie, Gregg Rolie, and of Chalfant.

And NONE of that matters. Cain to Herbie "You got to let us go" - did not feel he was that valuable. Steve Perry did NOT start the band and did NOT put a gun to any heads. If those greedy guys in the band did not like what was going on or what Sony was doing, the sign above the door reads "EXIT."

It doesn't matter only if you want to deny reality.

Steve Perry fired Ross Valory, Steve Smith, would not rejoin the band unless they hired a new manager, and they kicked out Gregg Rolie.

Yeah, the band acted like greedy assholes. Steve Perry just acted like an asshole.

You speak as though Herbie was so privy to "Revelations" that NO one else could have possibly known. Are you calling Neal and Jon stupid or greedy or both? Steve Perry sounded just fine at that Bill Graham tribute, and Rolling Stone has posted that performance several times. Just because you are preset as to how Journey should sound does not mean that everyone else must oblige. Voices do change.

I'm calling Neal and Jon short sighted and greedy.

I had the Bill Graham tribute on tape shortly after the show happened, and he sounded horrible then, and it still does. Has he hacked up his hairball yet? Did someone tell him the words to Faithfully? The only bit I ever liked about that performance was the intro to Lights.

And, I knew. I was arguing about Perry NOT joining the band long before the reunion was even talked about. From ROR on, he was nothing but a bad influence.

Steve Perry toured heavily from 1978 to Frontiers then with ROR and all you and others know to do his bash him. He put them on the map, seemingly at his expense, and they are karaoking today; so there is no reason for complaint about Steve Perry. The voice is not like the fingers. "I want to be what the fans want me to be." SP 2008

JOURNEY toured heavily from 1978 - 1984. JOURNEY, and Herbie, put Journey on the map...not just one person.

Herbie, Gregg nor Chalfant are with the band today, and they all are either griping about Steve Perry and/or starting their own karaoke show like Chalfant. Did I read earlier that karaoke Chalfant is starting to sing the Journey tunes. All trying to make a living off of aping or bashing Steve Perry. SP should have patented his voice.

So what? At least they are all working, or like Herbie, officially retired and enjoying life.

"IMO (OPNION)", [sic] there is probably not much to that "true band of brothers who WANT TO work together" and maybe it does not matter. Look at how big the "Eagles" are and wasn't "Hell Freezes Over" in reference to their relationship at one point, and they are still making big millions today, and their 2007 album sold millions without karaoke re-recording.

Geez, Rick is right...you are an idiot.

The historical fact is, Journey did not tour for TBF, the Eagles did for their reunion. TBF fell flat after being SHIPPED platinum. Hell Freezes Over became a HUGE release. After TBF, Journey was WORSE off then they were before. After Hell Freezes Over, the Eagles were an established band with huge popularity. If Journey had stuck with their original plans with Herbie, Chalfant, and Rolie they may not have had the huge initial hit album, but they could have gained a new foothold as an established band, especially with Herbie as their manager.

Journey would have gone straight downhill with "Herbie, Gregg and Chalfant" and the label knew and had ZERO interest in it.

There is absolutely no proof nor evidence of that.

Journey could have not toured so much and still had Steve Perry with them today with label interest, but now they only have the road with Sony and no one else having ZERO interest in them.

There is also absolutely NO proof of that...and the fact that Perry has had no interest in touring nor recording, the evidence is against it.

Time has shown that Journey went no where before Steve Perry and are going no where after him.

Not true. Arrival had some single success. In fact, i was hearing "Higher Place" on the radio up until Augeri's last tour. Whether anybody likes it or not, "Revelation" sold and also had some single success. So, they did continue on in the public arena without Perry. Again, it's an undeniable FACT...unless you deny reality.

Prior to Perry, there was a steady build up. Three albums later, they needed to move into a new era, and they did. But, the success Journey is known for did not happen until Perry ALSO had three albums, a live album, and an import movie soundtrack. Even the Robyn Flans book describes Journey as a 'fledging rock band" prior to Escape. The mega success did not happen until Escape - and that is what they are really remembered for, not Infinity, not Evolution, and not Departure...and actually, not ROR or TBF either.

Neal, who has ZERO pull power, has been at it since 15 and has never achieved the stardom, he HIMSELF, thinks he deserve and he NEVER will so he knows the routes (Santana reunion, etc.) he has to take to stay somewhat afloat till the end. "Turning their back" on anything different from karaoke is what they will do till the end. Unlike, Eclipse, TBF went platinum and Sony was a happy camper, unlike Walmart.

TBF didn't 'go platinum'. TBF was SHIPPED platinum...which is how they counted it back then...NOT by sales. So, TBF is just as "artificially" platinum as Revolation. And, frankly, Eclipse is a better album then both of those...and IMO, Arrival is a better album then Eclipse, TBF, and ROR.

Where is the gun that Steve Perry used when he "DEMANDED."...

The 'gun' is a big reunion check that Perry was holding hostage by refusing the reunion unless his wishes were granted.

They got rid of the one they felt was least valuable. Herbie is the self-proclaimed "unabashed capitalists" whom they felt was not an invaluable asset and to his dismay, they ended his reign and he has NOT returned.

Dude! Herbie is retired and doesn't need to return! Why would he return to a bunch of dysfunctional idiots anyway? LOL...too funny. Even when it was rumored here in this forum that Herbie would start being involved...I laughed it off...he's too smart for that!

He is bitter and bickering just like Gregg ("SP did not like me singing.") how many years later, and Steve Perry seemingly NEVER utters bad words of them.

LOL...poor Steve Perry needs you to come to rescue him from his persecutors. He is such a victim :'(

Sony was/is the big dog and after Steve Perry hit the scene and took the band to unbelievable heights, Sony was NOT interested in Herbie's thoughts of the "lineup he wanted."

The FACT is, they were interested enough in a Perryless Journey to release Arrival. So, I don't see why they would not be interested in it before TBF.

He had his chance from 1973 - 1978 pre-Perry to deliver and he FAILED! The "crazy dysfunctional" one ended his reign with an interview called "Castles Burning."

Herbie is the only one in this crowd who walked away without all the drama. You just don't like it because he told it like it is in his interview. Again, the fact is, dysfunctional people HIDE the truth and keep secrets. And, they are paranoid about others revealing things they don't want talked about. Herbie definitely doesn't do that...but some of the others do.

"They can get people to sound like Steve Perry, but they are not Steve Perry that intangible they have been missing since his departure 1998." 2010

And, Steve Perry hasn't sounded like "Steve Perry" since 1986...so your argument above is redundant and irrelevant.

[Monker]

lmao....

Even Perry would tell you to get over it.

I don't.

I think Steve Perry would run the other direction.

[slucero]

lmao....

Even Perry would tell you to get over it.

I don't.

I think Steve Perry would run the other direction.

HAHAH... true....

[Kor'n]

EXACTLY....this Jonathan quote is being taken completely out of context. Again, for the billionth time, Journey was set to continue on without Perry and with Gregg and Kevin Chalfant in the band. They had a band meeting on one of the canceled FTLOSM tour dates to decide the bands future...what the lineup was going to be. Essentially, Journey was together, writing and making a new future. Perry was out recording and touring solo....until Sony starts throwing "reunion" money into the mix and wanting Perry back. STEVE PERRY demanded the firing of Herbie, Gregg Rolie, and of Chalfant.

And NONE of that matters. Cain to Herbie "You got to let us go" - did not feel he was that valuable. Steve Perry did NOT start the band and did NOT put a gun to any heads. If those greedy guys in the band did not like what was going on or what Sony was doing, the sign above the door reads "EXIT."

It doesn't matter only if you want to deny reality.

Steve Perry fired Ross Valory, Steve Smith, would not rejoin the band unless they hired a new manager, and they kicked out Gregg Rolie.

Yeah, the band acted like greedy assholes. Steve Perry just acted like an asshole.

And whose band was it? The band is not saying Steve Perry fired those guys, for they were now trying to pretend he was just a hired hand.

"Steve Perry was dismissed." Deen 2012
"We ousted Steve Perry." Neal 2012

But seem to be changing tune again. Not hearing from that woman beating drummer, Deen, and Neal tells us now that "Steve Perry opted to leave." Neal even invited SP to his Winter "Blunderland" (Thanks FF!) and wished him a happy BD. What a difference fan bashing, a downhill spiral from 2008, needed publicity, a flop album, no more Oprah, Today Show or CBS and losing steam "DSB" will make... Think now you have to catch'em on PBS instead of CBS.

You speak as though Herbie was so privy to "Revelations" that NO one else could have possibly known. Are you calling Neal and Jon stupid or greedy or both? Steve Perry sounded just fine at that Bill Graham tribute, and Rolling Stone has posted that performance several times. Just because you are preset as to how Journey should sound does not mean that everyone else must oblige. Voices do change.

I'm calling Neal and Jon short sighted and greedy.

I had the Bill Graham tribute on tape shortly after the show happened, and he sounded horrible then, and it still does. Has he hacked up his hairball yet? Did someone tell him the words to Faithfully? The only bit I ever liked about that performance was the intro to Lights.

And, I knew. I was arguing about Perry NOT joining the band long before the reunion was even talked about. From ROR on, he was nothing but a bad influence.

SP's voice on the legacy has helped move over 50m, and Steve Perry's solo has sold more than Journey has without him. Guess Sony and rest liked that "bad influence." Guess Pineda's "influence" just "eclipse" it all. Jon and Neal are still karaoking Steve Perry today with ZERO interest in Kevin Chalfant even after TBF tour did not materialize.

His singing at the tribute was just fine. He does NOT have to be perfect. Check out Van Halen, Fleetwood Mac, Bruce S., Paul McCarthy's touring dollars (WOW!!!). Those guys are no where near perfection.

Steve Perry toured heavily from 1978 to Frontiers then with ROR and all you and others know to do his bash him. He put them on the map, seemingly at his expense, and they are karaoking today; so there is no reason for complaint about Steve Perry. The voice is not like the fingers. "I want to be what the fans want me to be." SP 2008

JOURNEY toured heavily from 1978 - 1984. JOURNEY, and Herbie, put Journey on the map...not just one person.

Journey toured heavily from 1973 - 1978 pre-Steve Perry, but Sony was about to kick out band and Herbie too.

Herbie, Gregg nor Chalfant are with the band today, and they all are either griping about Steve Perry and/or starting their own karaoke show like Chalfant. Did I read earlier that karaoke Chalfant is starting to sing the Journey tunes. All trying to make a living off of aping or bashing Steve Perry. SP should have patented his voice.

So what? At least they are all working, or like Herbie, officially retired and enjoying life.

Seems Steve Perry is "officially retired and enjoying life" without the griping and karaoking.

"IMO (OPNION)", [sic] there is probably not much to that "true band of brothers who WANT TO work together" and maybe it does not matter. Look at how big the "Eagles" are and wasn't "Hell Freezes Over" in reference to their relationship at one point, and they are still making big millions today, and their 2007 album sold millions without karaoke re-recording.

Geez, Rick is right...you are an idiot.

Guess there is nothing like wasting your time responding to an "idiot" huh.....

"If you call a crazy person crazy, he will stand there and argue his case with you till the end, but if the person is not crazy, he will just smile and move on......"

The historical fact is, Journey did not tour for TBF, the Eagles did for their reunion. TBF fell flat after being SHIPPED platinum. Hell Freezes Over became a HUGE release. After TBF, Journey was WORSE off then they were before. After Hell Freezes Over, the Eagles were an established band with huge popularity. If Journey had stuck with their original plans with Herbie, Chalfant, and Rolie they may not have had the huge initial hit album, but they could have gained a new foothold as an established band, especially with Herbie as their manager.

Yep, that's my point, Eagles were successful despite being in a "Hell Freezes Over" relationship, not so much a "band of brothers" as your proclamation, not repeated here, said was needed. Journey, along with Herbie, was about to be kicked out prior to Steve Perry joining.

If Journey "was WORSE off" their returning to "Herbie, Chalfant and Rolie" did not seem to play into their plans or Sony's. Sony did NOT want them to go on without Steve Perry, and since the band has NOT done squat but Steve Perry karaoke since he left, guess Sony is saying - told you so. And, Chalfant says he is now karaoking the tunes... Guess it just goes "on and on."

Journey would have gone straight downhill with "Herbie, Gregg and Chalfant" and the label knew and had ZERO interest in it.

There is absolutely no proof nor evidence of that.

"There is absolutely no proof nor evidence of" it going differently. At least Sony did not think so, and the band NEVER revisited that; but went on with Steve A., so guess no confidence in Herbie's "lineup." Seemingly just interested in that "Steve Perry with a perm." Deen/VH1 2001.

Journey could have not toured so much and still had Steve Perry with them today with label interest, but now they only have the road with Sony and no one else having ZERO interest in them.

There is also absolutely NO proof of that...and the fact that Perry has had no interest in touring nor recording, the evidence is against it.

The band to this day just tours and tours. Guess they are in fear of disappearing, since pretty much non-existent when not touring. AC/DC has not toured in about 4 years and are coming out this year, think, with new album. Guess you can do that, like the Eagles too, when you're huge and have your original voice at the helm. Journey not as huge, but could have done that with SP (look -"ten year absence" then back with hit song, grammy nod and platinum album in TBF.)

Just imagine if Steve Perry had been with them when "DSB" hit big in 2009... Sony would have been "pushing them like a baby in a stroller." But, with the big flop of Eclipse, downhill is the "name of the game." Journey w/o Steve Perry must do HUGE numbers, touring and musically, which they have not and CANNOT do, and would NOT have done with Herbie's "lineup." If they're gonna be so/so, better be so/so with SP whose Voice is all over their legacy that still sells today.

Time has shown that Journey went no where before Steve Perry and are going no where after him.

Not true. Arrival had some single success. In fact, i was hearing "Higher Place" on the radio up until Augeri's last tour. Whether anybody likes it or not, "Revelation" sold and also had some single success. So, they did continue on in the public arena without Perry. Again, it's an undeniable FACT...unless you deny reality.

"REALITY." - Sony (with the legacy music) nor any label of status is interested in current Journey. Sadly for them, since DSB had come back with such a bliss... Revelation was one sale two counts with karaoke Greatest Hits, and you may have heard those songs back then, but they are "dead to the world now," including the band's world. Those songs hit the AC Chart, but none hit the Hot 100 Chart that matters, and they would have needed to hit way inside the top 40. Steve Perry for his solo albums had many songs to actually hit the Hot 100 Chart, but only two today (OH Sherry and Foolish Heart) are played on radio ALL the time. Must have staying power to build "your own legacy."

Having Glee make "DSB" so huge for the band in 2009 was kinda like the band having a hit song, but look at them now, not going up the hill, but steadily downward. Just where are they to go but downward since they could not really capitalize on the huge surge of "DSB" to the point of fans grabbing up the band and buying everything (new) as they did in the Steve Perry era. As Perry would say back in the day, "You're as big as your next hit." Guess "DSB" was not really a hit for this current gig.

Yep, "so, they did continue on in the public arena without Perry." Thanks hugely to Sopranos and a super duper thanks to Glee, for in 2008, 35 million touring and in 2009 18 million, then pulled in 2010. Just that quickly was going downhill before "Glee with DSB." And you and I will talk of doing another album before they will (scared of another huge flop). May Neal continue on chasing Santana's tail.....

Prior to Perry, there was a steady build up. Three albums later, they needed to move into a new era, and they did. But, the success Journey is known for did not happen until Perry ALSO had three albums, a live album, and an import movie soundtrack. Even the Robyn Flans book describes Journey as a 'fledging rock band" prior to Escape. The mega success did not happen until Escape - and that is what they are really remembered for, not Infinity, not Evolution, and not Departure...and actually, not ROR or TBF either.

The first three w/o Perry were not building up fast enough for Sony - 300k + in five years.... Itunes writing and others speak of the band having much success before Escape. Sony was a happy camper. Heard recently on radio about bands hitting big- "The songs that turned nobody into somebody" and LTS was the song played for Journey. Lights and WITS did not hit in the top 40 but are major radio and concert staples along with AWYWI, just like songs from Escape. AWYWI was #4 on top driving list with DSB barely being #1.

As UCR would say, SP made his presence felt immediately. The biggy is SONY was happy with them because they were selling millions and they could have continued on with Sony selling millions, but not 100k. Sony was happy with ROR and TBF and did NOT want Perry to go. There is NOTHING like having a MAJOR label's support.

Neal, who has ZERO pull power, has been at it since 15 and has never achieved the stardom, he HIMSELF, thinks he deserve and he NEVER will so he knows the routes (Santana reunion, etc.) he has to take to stay somewhat afloat till the end. "Turning their back" on anything different from karaoke is what they will do till the end. Unlike, Eclipse, TBF went platinum and Sony was a happy camper, unlike Walmart.

TBF didn't 'go platinum'. TBF was SHIPPED platinum...which is how they counted it back then...NOT by sales. So, TBF is just as "artificially" platinum as Revolation. And, frankly, Eclipse is a better album then both of those...and IMO, Arrival is a better album then Eclipse, TBF, and ROR.

TBF sold a million and was certified platinum, no double album, no one sale two counts, and Sony was happy camper, and has the catalog with SP all over it. "All Steve Perry's albums are platinum." Revelation has karaoke Greatest Hits (what Walmart wanted) so the band had to sell big with Eclipse that flopped and Walmart "sent them on the merry way." Guess not many thought "Eclipse is a better album" than TBF and ROR that went plat/multi-platinum.

Where is the gun that Steve Perry used when he "DEMANDED."...

The 'gun' is a big reunion check that Perry was holding hostage by refusing the reunion unless his wishes were granted.

That's no gun! That is GREED of their own choosing!

He should have held them "hostage by refusing" all that touring that possibly ended his career earlier than it should have.

They got rid of the one they felt was least valuable. Herbie is the self-proclaimed "unabashed capitalists" whom they felt was not an invaluable asset and to his dismay, they ended his reign and he has NOT returned.

Dude! Herbie is retired and doesn't need to return! Why would he return to a bunch of dysfunctional idiots anyway? LOL...too funny. Even when it was rumored here in this forum that Herbie would start being involved...I laughed it off...he's too smart for that!

Sure, I just know they were "beating down his door" to get him to return.

Azoff is the big dog that have always managed the big dog "Eagles." He can open doors for them that Herbie could NOT possibly reach.....

He is bitter and bickering just like Gregg ("SP did not like me singing.") how many years later, and Steve Perry seemingly NEVER utters bad words of them.

LOL...poor Steve Perry needs you to come to rescue him from his persecutors. He is such a victim :'(

Thank you, but don't think so. That guy seems fine..... Eclipse flopped you know (last hope), so there are no successful selling albums that do not bear the name of Steve Perry, and the SP legacy "goes on and on." Their efforts to diminish seemed to have FAILED...again

Sony was/is the big dog and after Steve Perry hit the scene and took the band to unbelievable heights, Sony was NOT interested in Herbie's thoughts of the "lineup he wanted."

The FACT is, they were interested enough in a Perryless Journey to release Arrival. So, I don't see why they would not be interested in it before TBF.

I believe that was the album with soundalike "Steve Perry with a perm." ..... And, the "lineup before TBF would not have had that.....

Guess Sony's greed goes with the flow until failure then - outta here.....like Walmart.. What did Arrival sell? Gosh, you would have thought Sony would have at least given them one more chance since they hung in for a while with their first three flops, but there was NO SP in the mix.

He had his chance from 1973 - 1978 pre-Perry to deliver and he FAILED! The "crazy dysfunctional" one ended his reign with an interview called "Castles Burning."

Herbie is the only one in this crowd who walked away without all the drama. You just don't like it because he told it like it is in his interview. Again, the fact is, dysfunctional people HIDE the truth and keep secrets. And, they are paranoid about others revealing things they don't want talked about. Herbie definitely doesn't do that...but some of the others do.

"The fact is" that Herbie is bitter, and "he told it like [he saw] it in his interview." "The fact is" that Steve Perry stays away from press and badmouthing of any of those guys. Neal was supposedly "like a son" to Herbie, yet did not fight to keep him, but Herbie and you blame Steve Perry for Neal's greed and gutlessness. And to add "insult to injury," Neal had Cain call Herbie ("You got to let us go.") as he did with Steve Perry, then supposedly listened on other line with call to SP.

They can get people to sound like Steve Perry, but they are not Steve Perry that intangible they have been missing since his departure 1998." 2010

And, Steve Perry hasn't sounded like "Steve Perry" since 1986...so your argument above is redundant and irrelevant.

But he is Steve Perry, that intangible, star power that was in the band. The one Neal was hoping would turn up at his Winter "Blunderland" and throw some huge publicity and sales his way. Karoake was there, but the YT story is dead.

Nor has DLR "sounded like" DLR, but Valen Halen's tour with Roth brought in over 40m/41 shows with K&G opening...(huh), while Journey's 39m/73 shows with Pat Benatar (loads of hits), named as one of the top 25 ladies of Rock, and course, Loverboy (hits too).

The legacy may be kinda watered down and tarnished now, so hopefully they are happy touring soundalike till the end...... And Mr. Monker, you may want to go back and read your post of their getting someone to sound like Steve Perry did back then..... And, of course, your infamous saying after the flop of Eclipse in 2011...... "They are screwed now."

Are we done.....

[Kor'n]

lmao....

Even Perry would tell you to get over it.

I don't.

I think Steve Perry would run the other direction.

But Chalfant would run your way, for you were/are one of VERY FEW cheering for his entrance into the band...

Still need to know what to get over....

Is this a board or what...of what....

[slucero]

Chalfant has about as much a chance of joining the band now as Perry does of rejoining it...


and what you need to get over is your "Perry obsession"...


...ever wonder why even Lora doesn't defend you?...

[annie89509]

Monker has followed the band from the beginning, I think…could be called an historian. But no one is immune to bias, muddling “the facts” to booster his arguments. He says Sony thought enough of a “perryless” Journey to bankroll and release Arrival. My understanding of that part of history (just from reading all the fan forums starting when I took special interest in the band in 2005) was that the parties had entered into a negotiated “reunion” contract whereby Journey would give Sony 3 new albums in spread-out years. There was a lot of upfront money involved.

TBF was to be the big Reunion album and contractually obligated for 2 more. SP and fellow Bandmembers had their big blowup – can’t work together anymore. What’re they gonna do?! The solution worked out was for Journey and SP to split the “2nd” album – which turned out to be Journey GH Live & SP GH + 5Unreleased (both came out in 1998). With SA, Journey made and recorded the “3rd” – Arrival (released in 2001).

To the consternation of long-time Journey loyalists (I followed all this drama in retrospective online bantering, for which there were quite a bit of heated battles during the SA years, much more so than today!), Sony did not put much effort into publicizing the release of Arrival --little, if any, fanfare. Neal complained about Napster leak…people able to get free downloads without having to buy the record. And, it was Journey management and Bandmembers who did all the promotions…secured an HBO live airing of a concert in L.V. Also, a CBS Morning special.

To make matters worse, Sony acted counter-intuitive by packaging and releasing (old) SP-related material right on top of the (new) SA-stuff. Journey Essentials (2-cd set) in 2002 … knocked Arrival right out of the water…sold more copies by a 3-to-1 ratio. Journey GH 1978-1996 dvd against Arrival dvd (GH dvd didn’t come out until 2005)…but, again, no contest. Old Journey proves it is more popular than New Journey time and time again. Sony dropped the band after both parties fulfilled the “contractually obligated” release of Arrival.

Look, everybody has an opinion and is entitled to express it. But to say Journey coulda- shoulda gone with the Herbie/Gregg/KC lineup, ignored SP, and woulda been fine is plain illogical. Say what you will about the “degradation” of SP’s voice from ’86 on, the fact of the matter is it was his singing on all those songs on the radio. Nobody – not Sony, not the music-buying public – would have been interested in a Journey “reunion” without The Man himself. Now, that is a “fact” and I’m sticking to it….

[The_Noble_Cause]

EXACTLY....this Jonathan quote is being taken completely out of context. Again, for the billionth time, Journey was set to continue on without Perry and with Gregg and Kevin Chalfant in the band. They had a band meeting on one of the canceled FTLOSM tour dates to decide the bands future...what the lineup was going to be. Essentially, Journey was together, writing and making a new future. Perry was out recording and touring solo....until Sony starts throwing "reunion" money into the mix and wanting Perry back. STEVE PERRY demanded the firing of Herbie, Gregg Rolie, and of Chalfant.

And NONE of that matters. Cain to Herbie "You got to let us go" - did not feel he was that valuable. Steve Perry did NOT start the band and did NOT put a gun to any heads. If those greedy guys in the band did not like what was going on or what Sony was doing, the sign above the door reads "EXIT."

It doesn't matter only if you want to deny reality.

Steve Perry fired Ross Valory, Steve Smith, would not rejoin the band unless they hired a new manager, and they kicked out Gregg Rolie.

Yeah, the band acted like greedy assholes. Steve Perry just acted like an asshole.

And whose band was it? The band is not saying Steve Perry fired those guys, for they were now trying to pretend he was just a hired hand.

"Steve Perry was dismissed." Deen 2012
"We ousted Steve Perry." Neal 2012

But seem to be changing tune again. Not hearing from that woman beating drummer, Deen, and Neal tells us now that "Steve Perry opted to leave." Neal even invited SP to his Winter "Blunderland" (Thanks FF!) and wished him a happy BD. What a difference fan bashing, a downhill spiral from 2008, needed publicity, a flop album, no more Oprah, Today Show or CBS and losing steam "DSB" will make... Think now you have to catch'em on PBS instead of CBS.

You speak as though Herbie was so privy to "Revelations" that NO one else could have possibly known. Are you calling Neal and Jon stupid or greedy or both? Steve Perry sounded just fine at that Bill Graham tribute, and Rolling Stone has posted that performance several times. Just because you are preset as to how Journey should sound does not mean that everyone else must oblige. Voices do change.

I'm calling Neal and Jon short sighted and greedy.

I had the Bill Graham tribute on tape shortly after the show happened, and he sounded horrible then, and it still does. Has he hacked up his hairball yet? Did someone tell him the words to Faithfully? The only bit I ever liked about that performance was the intro to Lights.

And, I knew. I was arguing about Perry NOT joining the band long before the reunion was even talked about. From ROR on, he was nothing but a bad influence.

SP's voice on the legacy has helped move over 50m, and Steve Perry's solo has sold more than Journey has without him. Guess Sony and rest liked that "bad influence." Guess Pineda's "influence" just "eclipse" it all. Jon and Neal are still karaoking Steve Perry today with ZERO interest in Kevin Chalfant even after TBF tour did not materialize.

His singing at the tribute was just fine. He does NOT have to be perfect. Check out Van Halen, Fleetwood Mac, Bruce S., Paul McCarthy's touring dollars (WOW!!!). Those guys are no where near perfection.

Steve Perry toured heavily from 1978 to Frontiers then with ROR and all you and others know to do his bash him. He put them on the map, seemingly at his expense, and they are karaoking today; so there is no reason for complaint about Steve Perry. The voice is not like the fingers. "I want to be what the fans want me to be." SP 2008

JOURNEY toured heavily from 1978 - 1984. JOURNEY, and Herbie, put Journey on the map...not just one person.

Journey toured heavily from 1973 - 1978 pre-Steve Perry, but Sony was about to kick out band and Herbie too.

Herbie, Gregg nor Chalfant are with the band today, and they all are either griping about Steve Perry and/or starting their own karaoke show like Chalfant. Did I read earlier that karaoke Chalfant is starting to sing the Journey tunes. All trying to make a living off of aping or bashing Steve Perry. SP should have patented his voice.

So what? At least they are all working, or like Herbie, officially retired and enjoying life.

Seems Steve Perry is "officially retired and enjoying life" without the griping and karaoking.

"IMO (OPNION)", [sic] there is probably not much to that "true band of brothers who WANT TO work together" and maybe it does not matter. Look at how big the "Eagles" are and wasn't "Hell Freezes Over" in reference to their relationship at one point, and they are still making big millions today, and their 2007 album sold millions without karaoke re-recording.

Geez, Rick is right...you are an idiot.

Guess there is nothing like wasting your time responding to an "idiot" huh.....

"If you call a crazy person crazy, he will stand there and argue his case with you till the end, but if the person is not crazy, he will just smile and move on......"

The historical fact is, Journey did not tour for TBF, the Eagles did for their reunion. TBF fell flat after being SHIPPED platinum. Hell Freezes Over became a HUGE release. After TBF, Journey was WORSE off then they were before. After Hell Freezes Over, the Eagles were an established band with huge popularity. If Journey had stuck with their original plans with Herbie, Chalfant, and Rolie they may not have had the huge initial hit album, but they could have gained a new foothold as an established band, especially with Herbie as their manager.

Yep, that's my point, Eagles were successful despite being in a "Hell Freezes Over" relationship, not so much a "band of brothers" as your proclamation, not repeated here, said was needed. Journey, along with Herbie, was about to be kicked out prior to Steve Perry joining.

If Journey "was WORSE off" their returning to "Herbie, Chalfant and Rolie" did not seem to play into their plans or Sony's. Sony did NOT want them to go on without Steve Perry, and since the band has NOT done squat but Steve Perry karaoke since he left, guess Sony is saying - told you so. And, Chalfant says he is now karaoking the tunes... Guess it just goes "on and on."

Journey would have gone straight downhill with "Herbie, Gregg and Chalfant" and the label knew and had ZERO interest in it.

There is absolutely no proof nor evidence of that.

"There is absolutely no proof nor evidence of" it going differently. At least Sony did not think so, and the band NEVER revisited that; but went on with Steve A., so guess no confidence in Herbie's "lineup." Seemingly just interested in that "Steve Perry with a perm." Deen/VH1 2001.

Journey could have not toured so much and still had Steve Perry with them today with label interest, but now they only have the road with Sony and no one else having ZERO interest in them.

There is also absolutely NO proof of that...and the fact that Perry has had no interest in touring nor recording, the evidence is against it.

The band to this day just tours and tours. Guess they are in fear of disappearing, since pretty much non-existent when not touring. AC/DC has not toured in about 4 years and are coming out this year, think, with new album. Guess you can do that, like the Eagles too, when you're huge and have your original voice at the helm. Journey not as huge, but could have done that with SP (look -"ten year absence" then back with hit song, grammy nod and platinum album in TBF.)

Just imagine if Steve Perry had been with them when "DSB" hit big in 2009... Sony would have been "pushing them like a baby in a stroller." But, with the big flop of Eclipse, downhill is the "name of the game." Journey w/o Steve Perry must do HUGE numbers, touring and musically, which they have not and CANNOT do, and would NOT have done with Herbie's "lineup." If they're gonna be so/so, better be so/so with SP whose Voice is all over their legacy that still sells today.

Time has shown that Journey went no where before Steve Perry and are going no where after him.

Not true. Arrival had some single success. In fact, i was hearing "Higher Place" on the radio up until Augeri's last tour. Whether anybody likes it or not, "Revelation" sold and also had some single success. So, they did continue on in the public arena without Perry. Again, it's an undeniable FACT...unless you deny reality.

"REALITY." - Sony (with the legacy music) nor any label of status is interested in current Journey. Sadly for them, since DSB had come back with such a bliss... Revelation was one sale two counts with karaoke Greatest Hits, and you may have heard those songs back then, but they are "dead to the world now," including the band's world. Those songs hit the AC Chart, but none hit the Hot 100 Chart that matters, and they would have needed to hit way inside the top 40. Steve Perry for his solo albums had many songs to actually hit the Hot 100 Chart, but only two today (OH Sherry and Foolish Heart) are played on radio ALL the time. Must have staying power to build "your own legacy."

Having Glee make "DSB" so huge for the band in 2009 was kinda like the band having a hit song, but look at them now, not going up the hill, but steadily downward. Just where are they to go but downward since they could not really capitalize on the huge surge of "DSB" to the point of fans grabbing up the band and buying everything (new) as they did in the Steve Perry era. As Perry would say back in the day, "You're as big as your next hit." Guess "DSB" was not really a hit for this current gig.

Yep, "so, they did continue on in the public arena without Perry." Thanks hugely to Sopranos and a super duper thanks to Glee, for in 2008, 35 million touring and in 2009 18 million, then pulled in 2010. Just that quickly was going downhill before "Glee with DSB." And you and I will talk of doing another album before they will (scared of another huge flop). May Neal continue on chasing Santana's tail.....

Prior to Perry, there was a steady build up. Three albums later, they needed to move into a new era, and they did. But, the success Journey is known for did not happen until Perry ALSO had three albums, a live album, and an import movie soundtrack. Even the Robyn Flans book describes Journey as a 'fledging rock band" prior to Escape. The mega success did not happen until Escape - and that is what they are really remembered for, not Infinity, not Evolution, and not Departure...and actually, not ROR or TBF either.

The first three w/o Perry were not building up fast enough for Sony - 300k + in five years.... Itunes writing and others speak of the band having much success before Escape. Sony was a happy camper. Heard recently on radio about bands hitting big- "The songs that turned nobody into somebody" and LTS was the song played for Journey. Lights and WITS did not hit in the top 40 but are major radio and concert staples along with AWYWI, just like songs from Escape. AWYWI was #4 on top driving list with DSB barely being #1.

As UCR would say, SP made his presence felt immediately. The biggy is SONY was happy with them because they were selling millions and they could have continued on with Sony selling millions, but not 100k. Sony was happy with ROR and TBF and did NOT want Perry to go. There is NOTHING like having a MAJOR label's support.

Neal, who has ZERO pull power, has been at it since 15 and has never achieved the stardom, he HIMSELF, thinks he deserve and he NEVER will so he knows the routes (Santana reunion, etc.) he has to take to stay somewhat afloat till the end. "Turning their back" on anything different from karaoke is what they will do till the end. Unlike, Eclipse, TBF went platinum and Sony was a happy camper, unlike Walmart.

TBF didn't 'go platinum'. TBF was SHIPPED platinum...which is how they counted it back then...NOT by sales. So, TBF is just as "artificially" platinum as Revolation. And, frankly, Eclipse is a better album then both of those...and IMO, Arrival is a better album then Eclipse, TBF, and ROR.

TBF sold a million and was certified platinum, no double album, no one sale two counts, and Sony was happy camper, and has the catalog with SP all over it. "All Steve Perry's albums are platinum." Revelation has karaoke Greatest Hits (what Walmart wanted) so the band had to sell big with Eclipse that flopped and Walmart "sent them on the merry way." Guess not many thought "Eclipse is a better album" than TBF and ROR that went plat/multi-platinum.

Where is the gun that Steve Perry used when he "DEMANDED."...

The 'gun' is a big reunion check that Perry was holding hostage by refusing the reunion unless his wishes were granted.

That's no gun! That is GREED of their own choosing!

He should have held them "hostage by refusing" all that touring that possibly ended his career earlier than it should have.

They got rid of the one they felt was least valuable. Herbie is the self-proclaimed "unabashed capitalists" whom they felt was not an invaluable asset and to his dismay, they ended his reign and he has NOT returned.

Dude! Herbie is retired and doesn't need to return! Why would he return to a bunch of dysfunctional idiots anyway? LOL...too funny. Even when it was rumored here in this forum that Herbie would start being involved...I laughed it off...he's too smart for that!

Sure, I just know they were "beating down his door" to get him to return.

Azoff is the big dog that have always managed the big dog "Eagles." He can open doors for them that Herbie could NOT possibly reach.....

He is bitter and bickering just like Gregg ("SP did not like me singing.") how many years later, and Steve Perry seemingly NEVER utters bad words of them.

LOL...poor Steve Perry needs you to come to rescue him from his persecutors. He is such a victim :'(

Thank you, but don't think so. That guy seems fine..... Eclipse flopped you know (last hope), so there are no successful selling albums that do not bear the name of Steve Perry, and the SP legacy "goes on and on." Their efforts to diminish seemed to have FAILED...again

Sony was/is the big dog and after Steve Perry hit the scene and took the band to unbelievable heights, Sony was NOT interested in Herbie's thoughts of the "lineup he wanted."

The FACT is, they were interested enough in a Perryless Journey to release Arrival. So, I don't see why they would not be interested in it before TBF.

I believe that was the album with soundalike "Steve Perry with a perm." ..... And, the "lineup before TBF would not have had that.....

Guess Sony's greed goes with the flow until failure then - outta here.....like Walmart.. What did Arrival sell? Gosh, you would have thought Sony would have at least given them one more chance since they hung in for a while with their first three flops, but there was NO SP in the mix.

He had his chance from 1973 - 1978 pre-Perry to deliver and he FAILED! The "crazy dysfunctional" one ended his reign with an interview called "Castles Burning."

Herbie is the only one in this crowd who walked away without all the drama. You just don't like it because he told it like it is in his interview. Again, the fact is, dysfunctional people HIDE the truth and keep secrets. And, they are paranoid about others revealing things they don't want talked about. Herbie definitely doesn't do that...but some of the others do.

"The fact is" that Herbie is bitter, and "he told it like [he saw] it in his interview." "The fact is" that Steve Perry stays away from press and badmouthing of any of those guys. Neal was supposedly "like a son" to Herbie, yet did not fight to keep him, but Herbie and you blame Steve Perry for Neal's greed and gutlessness. And to add "insult to injury," Neal had Cain call Herbie ("You got to let us go.") as he did with Steve Perry, then supposedly listened on other line with call to SP.

They can get people to sound like Steve Perry, but they are not Steve Perry that intangible they have been missing since his departure 1998." 2010

And, Steve Perry hasn't sounded like "Steve Perry" since 1986...so your argument above is redundant and irrelevant.

But he is Steve Perry, that intangible, star power that was in the band. The one Neal was hoping would turn up at his Winter "Blunderland" and throw some huge publicity and sales his way. Karoake was there, but the YT story is dead.

Nor has DLR "sounded like" DLR, but Valen Halen's tour with Roth brought in over 40m/41 shows with K&G opening...(huh), while Journey's 39m/73 shows with Pat Benatar (loads of hits), named as one of the top 25 ladies of Rock, and course, Loverboy (hits too).

The legacy may be kinda watered down and tarnished now, so hopefully they are happy touring soundalike till the end...... And Mr. Monker, you may want to go back and read your post of their getting someone to sound like Steve Perry did back then..... And, of course, your infamous saying after the flop of Eclipse in 2011...... "They are screwed now."

Are we done.....

Wow. What long winded bullshit. Korn, you are officially one of the biggest losers I have ever encountered on the internet (and that's saying something). Get a fucking life.

[Kor'n]

Chalfant has about as much a chance of joining the band now as Perry does of rejoining it...


and what you need to get over is your "Perry obsession"...


...ever wonder why even Lora doesn't defend you?...

NO!!! Now, that's FUNNY! As if I need defense......

...."ever wonder why" I just post and go.........

And what do I need to get over ..... Please get some sense and intuition and comprehension.....

Is this a board or what....of what.....

Any more comments......

[Kor'n]

Wow. What long winded bullshit. Korn, you are officially one of the biggest losers I have ever encountered on the internet (and that's saying something). Get a fucking life.

"Wow" Is that all the charging through the board shooting everyone down TNC has to say......Guess comprehension is a little slow, as usual......

Is this a board or what...of what....

Take your own advice!

Any more comments......

[Eric]

"Wow" Is that all the charging through the board shooting everyone down TNC has to say......Guess comprehension is a little slow, as usual......

Is this a board or what...of what....

Take your own advice!

Any more comments......

You are so full of shit Korn that it has become painful to read your posts.

And I'm beyond tired of hearing Eclipse was a flop. It debuted at #13 and sold over 100k. For this band in this day and age that is nothing to sneeze at - especially considering they made a great album the way they wanted.

[Marabelle]

Good comments Annie! Your comments will not get overlooked!