Eclipse - 5 years

[The_Noble_Cause]

I started liking Journey because they were my older brother's favorite band from Infinity on. He sent me a text after listening to Eclipse on Spotify saying, "How can Journey put out a record without 1 good song on it?" He really liked "Revelation" too so it's not an Arnel thing.

Material like Someone or Anything is Possible or Ritual would fit right at home on Revelation or Arrival, so I would say you and your brother did not really give it a chance. Did you and your brother complain about Generations? Because that's a real piece of shit, with maybe four good songs. Generations is a huge disappointment, especially after Arrival. Neal updated the sound on Eclipse, but there are classic songs on there to satisfy everybody. Those that act like its Judas Priest or Megadeth, are either biased or only casual fans.

[tj]

I started liking Journey because they were my older brother's favorite band from Infinity on. He sent me a text after listening to Eclipse on Spotify saying, "How can Journey put out a record without 1 good song on it?" He really liked "Revelation" too so it's not an Arnel thing.

Material like Someone or Anything is Possible or Ritual would fit right at home on Revelation or Arrival, so I would say you and your brother did not really give it a chance. Did you and your brother complain about Generations? Because that's a real piece of shit, with maybe four good songs. Generations is a huge disappointment, especially after Arrival. Neal updated the sound on Eclipse, but there are classic songs on there to satisfy everybody. Those that act like its Judas Priest or Megadeth, are either biased or only casual fans.

Who said it was Judas Priest or Megadeath sounding? It's an evolution of Journey for sure, but comparison to those two bands seems a little extreme.

[tj]

Isn't this the longest drought without an album, with the exception of the ROR to TBF years? I don't remember them going 5 years between albums at any point when they have been actively touring. Even in the TBF to Arrival period, they put out Remember Me. Can't they throw us a bone of some sort?

[The_Noble_Cause]

Who said it was Judas Priest or Megadeath sounding? It's an evolution of Journey for sure, but comparison to those two bands seems a little extreme.

Have you been reading this thread? The haters say it doesn't sound like Journey at all and has no good songs at all. The criticisms are extreme. When someone can't admit a song like "Someone" is pure Cain/Schon Journey, I gotta call bullshit.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Isn't this the longest drought without an album, with the exception of the ROR to TBF years? I don't remember them going 5 years between albums at any point when they have been actively touring. Even in the TBF to Arrival period, they put out Remember Me. Can't they throw us a bone of some sort?

Augeri's work on solo material allegedly lit a fire under Neal's ass to make Generations. Right now, we have Arnel releasing a solo album, Cain releasing a religious pop album, and Neal with different musical outlets (Santana, Vortex etc). Nobody seems motivated to write Journey music.

[tj]

Who said it was Judas Priest or Megadeath sounding? It's an evolution of Journey for sure, but comparison to those two bands seems a little extreme.

Have you been reading this thread? The haters say it doesn't sound like Journey at all and has no good songs at all. The criticisms are extreme. When someone can't admit a song like "Someone" is pure Cain/Schon Journey, I gotta call bullshit.

Yeah, I guess I missed the Megadeath/Judas Priest comparison, though.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Yeah, I guess I missed the Megadeath/Judas Priest comparison, though.

Nobody in this thread said that. It was not a quote. I did not put it in quotes. This is not the first time Eclipse has been debated on MR. Since being released, most criticisms fall along the lines of the CD being too heavy. Which is total bullshit. "Chain of Love" is the only thing approaching metal on the CD. There is classic Journey sing-a-long sounding stuff on there, and some slightly experimental stuff like "Edge of the Moment", which is almost like a Neal solo tune with lyrics.

[tj]

Yeah, I guess I missed the Megadeath/Judas Priest comparison, though.

Nobody in this thread said that. It was not a quote. I did not put it in quotes. This is not the first time Eclipse has been debated on MR. Since being released, most criticisms fall along the lines of the CD being too heavy. Which is total bullshit. "Chain of Love" is the only thing approaching metal on the CD. There is classic Journey sing-a-long sounding stuff on there, and some slightly experimental stuff like "Edge of the Moment", which is almost like a Neal solo tune with lyrics.

OK. I was away from this forum for quite a while and I just thought that I had missed it. I don't recall that I have ever actually listened to anything by either Megadeath or Judas Priest, so I can't compare. It seems from the comments on this board and by Jon at the time it came out that Eclipse is not what people expected a Journey album to be, whether right or wrong.

It's the timeless balance that all professional musicians have to try and achieve of making the music you want to make vs. making the music that the fans will buy. In the best cases - Escape, Frontiers, etc. - those align perfectly. With Eclipse, not as much I guess.

[JourneyHard]

I love Eclipse. People who don't like it are completely wrong if they say it doesn't sound like Journey.

My only complaints with Eclipse is it needed a little touching up on the lyrics which were wonky, and it needed to rock harder. Yes. Harder. Most of the songs are melodic mid-tempo songs. We need more killer rockers in the vein of Edge of the Blade, Escape, or Keep On Runnin.

My guess is Jon was trying to hold Neal back from rocking too hard. But you cannot hold Neal back AND say the album doesn't sound like Journey. Also, Journey has rocked much harder in their past and still been right in the Journey Legacy Sound.

[The_Noble_Cause]

I love Eclipse. People who don't like it are completely wrong if they say it doesn't sound like Journey.

My only complaints with Eclipse is it needed a little touching up on the lyrics which were wonky, and it needed to rock harder. Yes. Harder. Most of the songs are melodic mid-tempo songs. We need more killer rockers in the vein of Edge of the Blade, Escape, or Keep On Runnin.

My guess is Jon was trying to hold Neal back from rocking too hard. But you cannot hold Neal back AND say the album doesn't sound like Journey. Also, Journey has rocked much harder in their past and still been right in the Journey Legacy Sound.

Great post!

[Gideon]

ECL1P53 has held up very well for me. A perfect album? Nah. But a great one.

[yulog]

Theres a couple of songs on here that are good but the new style stuff was a complete miss for me... I wouldn't listen anymore if they continue with the new style, I thought it was real weak.

[tj]

Theres a couple of songs on here that are good but the new style stuff was a complete miss for me... I wouldn't listen anymore if they continue with the new style, I thought it was real weak.

It seems that if sales of the album are any indication, most agree with you. Perhaps agreement on the direction of style of music between Jon and Neal is part of the delay in any new music?

[The_Noble_Cause]

It seems that if sales of the album are any indication, most agree with you.

It's funny how some fans trot this out, as if this is proof of anything. Can you tell me how the first post-Perry single, Remember Me, charted? How about Arrival? Or Red 13? Or Generations? It seems that if sales are any indication, the band should not even try to make new music, I guess. Fans who cite Eclipse's disappointing sales are obviously not very observant fans.

[Ehwmatt]

Hasn't stood the test of time for me, but then again, I was never crazy about it. It seemed like they were trying too hard to rock instead of letting the rock come to them if that makes any sense. Escape, Chain Reaction, and old school Rolie/Perry duets are definitely some of my favorite Journey tunes. I think they were going for that sorta vibe on many of these, but they just missed the mark.

Too many long outro guitar solos that ruined the flow of the songs/album. Exhibit A: Anything is Possible. Great tasteful guitar work by Neal around a catchy song through and through (verse and chorus) -- love the intro solo and solo after the first chorus -- but then he goes into that very long outro solo and it just kills the song. Songs like She's a Mystery sounded like a poor man's Zeppelin to me.

If they could somehow meld the best stylistic aspects from the likes of Arrival, Generations, Revelation, and Eclipse they'd have a killer album....

[The_Noble_Cause]

Too many long outro guitar solos that ruined the flow of the songs/album. Exhibit A: Anything is Possible. Great tasteful guitar work by Neal around a catchy song through and through (verse and chorus) -- love the intro solo and solo after the first chorus -- but then he goes into that very long outro solo and it just kills the song. Songs like She's a Mystery sounded like a poor man's Zeppelin to me.

I really like the ending solo of AIP. I know you have complained about it before, but I just don't hear it. I remember first hearing "Just the Same Way" and wanting that solo not to fade out. Eclipse gives Neal alot of breathing room. What are your thoughts on the solo he has added to Open Arms in concert?

[tj]

It seems that if sales of the album are any indication, most agree with you.

It's funny how some fans trot this out, as if this is proof of anything. Can you tell me how the first post-Perry single, Remember Me, charted? How about Arrival? Or Red 13? Or Generations? It seems that if sales are any indication, the band should not even try to make new music, I guess. Fans who cite Eclipse's disappointing sales are obviously not very observant fans.

Citing disappointing sales doesn't make someone unobservant. It one measure. Good albums sometimes don't get a lot of sales. Bad albums rarely get a lot of sales. Other measures include how well members of the group promote it. When a key member of the band is openly critical of it, that says something pretty strong. If the people who made the album don't care for it, why should anyone go buy it?

[The_Noble_Cause]

Citing disappointing sales doesn't make someone unobservant. It one measure.

Measure of what? Every other album, with the exception of Revelation, was considered a disappointment. Since reforming, the new lineup has had success with Vegas 2001 hits DVD, Revelation (which included a hits DVD), and the Manilla hits DVD. Eclipse actually charted, which is more than can be said of past new Journey releases.

When a key member of the band is openly critical of it, that says something pretty strong. If the people who made the album don't care for it, why should anyone go buy it?

Cain didn't criticize it until it came out and did not sell like Revelation did. Without a cd of hits, Eclipse was never going to have similar sales numbers. Cain also washed his hands of making new Journey music after Arrival flopped. He also said they got their asses handed to them when they independently released Red 13. So Cain has been a stick in the mud regarding all new releases for quite some time. You are not putting Eclipse in any sort of context. Recent Journey CDs have failed before. Cain has been a whiny pussy before.

[JourneyHard]

Theres a couple of songs on here that are good but the new style stuff was a complete miss for me... I wouldn't listen anymore if they continue with the new style, I thought it was real weak.

What new direction? What new style? Every song on Eclipse sounds like Journey.

A new direction would have been if they did an album of all ballads. That wouldn't be Journey. Journey is NOT Air Supply. Journey is a Hard Rock band who happens to have some ballads. Aerosmith had tons of ballads in the 1990's and they are still called a Hard Rock band. I think the casual fans do NOT know how hard Journey has rocked in the past.

[tj]

Theres a couple of songs on here that are good but the new style stuff was a complete miss for me... I wouldn't listen anymore if they continue with the new style, I thought it was real weak.

What new direction? What new style? Every song on Eclipse sounds like Journey.

A new direction would have been if they did an album of all ballads. That wouldn't be Journey. Journey is NOT Air Supply. Journey is a Hard Rock band who happens to have some ballads. Aerosmith had tons of ballads in the 1990's and they are still called a Hard Rock band. I think the casual fans do NOT know how hard Journey has rocked in the past.

I suppose that you are correct in that every song on Eclipse sounds like Journey. Because the album was made by Journey. People and Places from Departure is Journey. So is DSB. And LaDoDa, and WYLAW, and Raised on Radio. So, yeah in that sense it sounds like Journey.

[The_Noble_Cause]

What new direction? What new style? Every song on Eclipse sounds like Journey.

Songs like Edge of the Moment or City of Hope feature layers and layers and layers of guitars. Cain adds some synth effects here and there, but otherwise defers to Neal. I would say that constitutes a new style. Compare those songs to something like Wildest Dream from Revelation. Wildest Dream is a nostalgia-throwback and features Cain driving the song. Same with the synth-intro on Separate Ways. Same with BGTY. I give Neal alot of credit for trying something different. Even tunes that don't work for me are interesting to listen to. At 12 tracks, the album also doesn't over stay its welcome. Neal said he helped to sequence the cd and I think he did a good job. Wish he had been more involved with Generations.

[Onestepper]

My wife said it best when the album first launched. "It sounds like it could be a soundtrack for a broadway musical".

That doesn't mean it's bad though. It just means that it is. And that's how I've always considered Eclipse. It just is.

[JourneyHard]

What new direction? What new style? Every song on Eclipse sounds like Journey.

Songs like Edge of the Moment or City of Hope feature layers and layers and layers of guitars. Cain adds some synth effects here and there, but otherwise defers to Neal. I would say that constitutes a new style. Compare those songs to something like Wildest Dream from Revelation. Wildest Dream is a nostalgia-throwback and features Cain driving the song. Same with the synth-intro on Separate Ways. Same with BGTY. I give Neal alot of credit for trying something different. Even tunes that don't work for me are interesting to listen to. At 12 tracks, the album also doesn't over stay its welcome. Neal said he helped to sequence the cd and I think he did a good job. Wish he had been more involved with Generations.

I love Eclipse because some of these songs are five minutes or six minutes, but they don't drag at all. That is a sign of a good song.

Perhaps Journey should get Axle Rose to be their new lead singer and Slash as a second guitarist, and then they would really have a new direction and a new style.

[perryfan61]

A new direction and a new style? Then they wouldn't be Journey anymore. The fans are used to a certain style, too much of a deviation and they would just move on.

[Eric]

My wife said it best when the album first launched. "It sounds like it could be a soundtrack for a broadway musical".

That doesn't mean it's bad though. It just means that it is. And that's how I've always considered Eclipse. It just is.

I think that actually means she got what Schon was going for to some extent. It was supposed to be telling a story..a concept. I didn't get it..but I love several of the songs. Of course - I don't hate Generations like most of the folks on here do, either.

[Monker]

Isn't this the longest drought without an album, with the exception of the ROR to TBF years? I don't remember them going 5 years between albums at any point when they have been actively touring. Even in the TBF to Arrival period, they put out Remember Me. Can't they throw us a bone of some sort?

Augeri's work on solo material allegedly lit a fire under Neal's ass to make Generations. Right now, we have Arnel releasing a solo album, Cain releasing a religious pop album, and Neal with different musical outlets (Santana, Vortex etc). Nobody seems motivated to write Journey music.

Obviously, Neal and Jonathan can't agree on what "style" a new album should be, Revelation style, or Eclipse style. Which is bullshit...it should be right in between the two. A happy medium.

I would think Wal-Mart has to finish selling the Eclipse CD's they printed before they would be interested in releasing a new Journey CD anyway.. Like I said back then, Eclipse will be Journey's final album.

[The_Noble_Cause]

I would think Wal-Mart has to finish selling the Eclipse CD's they printed before they would be interested in releasing a new Journey CD anyway.. Like I said back then, Eclipse will be Journey's final album.

Walmart is out of that business. The executive behind the Walmart exclusive classic rock albums was let go. Old news. Frontiers would have to make the band an offer at this point. And Jonathan Cain simply is not interested in new Journey anymore. Does not matter what style it is.

And your psychic powers are overrated. Eclipse will not be their last album.

[Monker]

It seems that if sales of the album are any indication, most agree with you.

It's funny how some fans trot this out, as if this is proof of anything. Can you tell me how the first post-Perry single, Remember Me, charted? How about Arrival? Or Red 13? Or Generations? It seems that if sales are any indication, the band should not even try to make new music, I guess. Fans who cite Eclipse's disappointing sales are obviously not very observant fans.

Five - six years ago, Saint John and pals were going about saying Eclipse would be a top ten album, sell double platinum and have five hit singles. When it was released, there were bets being posted on when it would go platinum and where it would debut and how high it would chart

It would be interesting to go back five years and see what you were posting back then. Because it felt like I was the only one posting that all of this success wasn't going to happen.

Eclipse was EXPECTED to do a LOT better then it did. It was EXPECTED to pass Revelation in sales. Wal-Mart printed FAR too many CD's because even they had higher expectations. But, Neal turned his back on the audience that Revelation built. Journey spent a bunch of time rebuilding an audience for the "legacy" sound. They started kissing Perry's ass in public interviews and such and even Perry fans started buying into it. When Neal pushed Journey into being the Neal Schon solo band, he turned off a lot of people. It is obvious that is what happened and why Eclipse is where it is today.

[Monker]

I would think Wal-Mart has to finish selling the Eclipse CD's they printed before they would be interested in releasing a new Journey CD anyway.. Like I said back then, Eclipse will be Journey's final album.

Walmart is out of that business. The executive behind the Walmart exclusive classic rock albums was let go. Old news. Frontiers would have to make the band an offer at this point. And Jonathan Cain simply is not interested in new Journey anymore. Does not matter what style it is.

And your psychic powers are overrated. Eclipse will not be their last album.

Yeah, right, a new Journey album. That will happen after Steve Perry tours for his solo release.

[Monker]

I love Eclipse. People who don't like it are completely wrong if they say it doesn't sound like Journey.

My only complaints with Eclipse is it needed a little touching up on the lyrics which were wonky, and it needed to rock harder. Yes. Harder. Most of the songs are melodic mid-tempo songs. We need more killer rockers in the vein of Edge of the Blade, Escape, or Keep On Runnin.

My guess is Jon was trying to hold Neal back from rocking too hard. But you cannot hold Neal back AND say the album doesn't sound like Journey. Also, Journey has rocked much harder in their past and still been right in the Journey Legacy Sound.

Yes, but in the past I could not hear three Neal Schon's playing different guitar parts all at once, one was always enough. What happened is Neal 1/3 of guitarist he was back in 1983....or does he have three times the ego? Considering all of the "it's Neal's band..." type of talk that has happened for the past 15yrs, I believe it's the ego.

I'm not arguing there needs to be less hard rock in Journey. The only song I really listen to from Eclipse any longer is "Chain of Love", according to TNC, it must be death metal or something. I'm saying there is too much Neal Schon influence and direction...in the same way there was too much Steve Perry influence and direction in ROR. Yeah, you can argue that Jonathan wrote a bunch of the stuff...but it was at the direction of Neal, or Perry for ROR. You can even argue there are some Journey'ish songs ("Why Can't This Night Go on Forever", "Girl Can't Help it", "I'll Be Alright Without You", "Anything is Possible", and whatever TNC wants to add). But, over all it is obviously an one member took control of the band to create. Even Jonathan said Eclipse was Neal's baby...that Neal saw an opportunity to do an album his way, and Jonathan went along with it. That is my problem with Eclipse, it's a Neal Schon album...just as ROR is a Perry album.