The end of Journey as we know it, or not ... ?

[The_Noble_Cause]

I'm not going to reply to all of this...

First of all, I have consistently said, "like a Walmart deal..." and "or a label like Sony". I know they are not the same thing, or do the same thing.

I don't think you do. You keep citing the exorbitant expense of the Walmart-released Eclipse without ever acknowledging that the album was independently produced by Journey. The only cost that we know of, is the retailer purchasing the album from the band. The actual distribution costs would be negligible because they are relying upon an existing brick and mortar supply chain. Is It possible Walmart gave Journey some sort of an advance based upon the sales of Revelation? Maybe. But I don't know that and you don't either.

As for classic rock bands still getting deals like the Walmart deal....Steve Perry had an exclusive deal with Target to release Traces with extra songs, and various packages. So, yes, they do still happen.

Traces was available virtually everywhere. You are now conflating special editions with exclusive distribution. Not the same thing at all. In fact, special edition cds pre-dated Walmart exclusive editions.

Walmart had to order and pay for the CD's, and do all the advertising. That is how Journey made their money...they did not lose anything. See article posted after this post for details on how these things work.

Advertising in what? Weekly circulars that were going to be printed by the company anyway? Most of the publicity, like the Today show City of Hope live performance, was likely brokered by Azoff not Walmart.

As for that article.... I remember reading it when it came out. Revelation received a ton of publicity from unusual sources like the NYTimes and even the Wall Street Journal. I would not be surprised if Azoff was behind that as well.

Steve Perry will never tour again, and Journey will not have another deal like the Walmart deal, or be signed to a label like Sony.

Oh well. Too bad.

[Monker]

I'm not going to reply to all of this...

First of all, I have consistently said, "like a Walmart deal..." and "or a label like Sony". I know they are not the same thing, or do the same thing.

I don't think you do. You keep citing the exorbitant expense of the Walmart-released Eclipse without ever acknowledging that the album was independently produced by Journey. The only cost that we know of, is the retailer purchasing the album from the band. The actual distribution costs would be negligible because they are relying upon an existing brick and mortar supply chain. Is It possible Walmart gave Journey some sort of an advance based upon the sales of Revelation? Maybe. But I don't know that and you don't either.

Walmart had to order and pay for the CD's. Walmart had to store them in their warehouse(s). They had to put them on the shelf where they sat unsold. ALL OF THAT COST MONEY. If you go to walmart.com today you will find the CD's are now sold through a discount merchant...that is how much they over stocked the CD. Of course they lost money on all of the Eclipse fiasco. You are simply in denial of reality.

Walmart had to order and pay for the CD's, and do all the advertising. That is how Journey made their money...they did not lose anything. See article posted after this post for details on how these things work.

Advertising in what? Weekly circulars that were going to be printed by the company anyway? Most of the publicity, like the Today show City of Hope live performance, was likely brokered by Azoff not Walmart.[/quote]

Read the article. Even Azoff says that a traditional label deal can not compete with what Walmart can commit to. Again, you are simply arguing against simple facts and reality.

As for that article.... I remember reading it when it came out. Revelation received a ton of publicity from unusual sources like the NYTimes and even the Wall Street Journal. I would not be surprised if Azoff was behind that as well.

You need to read it again to understand that Walmart ordered, paid for, and marketed the CD's on these deals. THAT IS THE WAY IT WORKS. You are mentioning all of this crap that I am not even referencing.

Steve Perry will never tour again, and Journey will not have another deal like the Walmart deal, or be signed to a label like Sony.

Oh well. Too bad.[/quote]

Exactly.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Walmart had to order and pay for the CD's. Walmart had to store them in their warehouse(s). They had to put them on the shelf where they sat unsold. ALL OF THAT COST MONEY. If you go to walmart.com today you will find the CD's are now sold through a discount merchant...that is how much they over stocked the CD. Of course they lost money on all of the Eclipse fiasco. You are simply in denial of reality.

And you, as usual, are simply pretending to be more knowledgeable than you really are. Walmart owns that shelf space and the warehouses. You are just making up expenses now.

Read the article. Even Azoff says that a traditional label deal can not compete with what Walmart can commit to. Again, you are simply arguing against simple facts and reality.

The article mentions print, TV, and radio marketing for The Eagles. That doesn't mean every Walmart exclusive received similar treatment. They didn't. There's no denying, however, that Revelation definitely received quite a bit of PR.

You need to read it again to understand that Walmart ordered, paid for, and marketed the CD's on these deals. THAT IS THE WAY IT WORKS. You are mentioning all of this crap that I am not even referencing.

Again, you are generalizing that every single exclusive album received The Eagles treatment. As the owner of multiple Walmart exclusives, not just Revelation or Eclipse, I know for a fact that isn't true. Walmart's involvement also doesn't prevent band management from negotiating publicity opportunities themselves.

[Monker]

Walmart had to order and pay for the CD's. Walmart had to store them in their warehouse(s). They had to put them on the shelf where they sat unsold. ALL OF THAT COST MONEY. If you go to walmart.com today you will find the CD's are now sold through a discount merchant...that is how much they over stocked the CD. Of course they lost money on all of the Eclipse fiasco. You are simply in denial of reality.

And you, as usual, are simply pretending to be more knowledgeable than you really are. Walmart owns that shelf space and the warehouses. You are just making up expenses now.

I have never used the word "expense".

It's obvious to me that you are ignorant on how a retail company manages its inventory, decides when prices should be raised or lowered or a product goes on sale, and when and why a product is discontinued and no longer sold.

For a retail company, if a product doesn't move and sits in a warehouse and takes up space and sits on a shelf and takes up space, because it does not sell, it is costing the company. The reason is because there could (SHOULD) be other product using that space in the warehouse and on the shelf that IS selling. They monitor this stuff and when a product is not selling and moving from the warehouse to the shelf to the consumer then the price is lowered, or it goes on sale, the last thing they do is send it to a discounter to get it out of their warehouse to free up the space for product that DOES sell makes the company money.

THAT IS THE SIMPLE FACTS ON HOW RETAIL WORKS....I KNOW this from experience.

Walmart lost a huge amount of money because they ordered maybe 10 times the number of CD's that they should have. They sat in the warehouse(s) and shelf for MONTHS unsold. Then they obviously sold them to a discounter at a fraction of their price. And, regardless of ho littlew they did, they spent money marketing a CD that hardly anybody wanted. They lost a huge amount of money on Eclipse.

You are in complete denial that Walmart lost money on Eclipse. It is so common sense and factual.

[The_Noble_Cause]

I have never used the word "expense".

You're going on and on about how much money Walmart allegedly lost, but then object to the word "expense"?
What do you think things like merchandising, distribution, and purchasing fall under? These are all a part of Walmart's expenses.

It's obvious to me that you are ignorant on how a retail company manages its inventory, decides when prices should be raised or lowered or a product goes on sale, and when and why a product is discontinued and no longer sold.

Ah, first you engage in BS semantics, and now you are engaging in the classic logical fallacy of appeal to authority.
You pretend to know more than everybody when you really don't know a thing.
Up until a few posts ago, you were even oblivious to the fact that Revelation and Eclipse was produced independently by the band.

For a retail company, if a product doesn't move and sits in a warehouse and takes up space and sits on a shelf and takes up space, because it does not sell, it is costing the company. The reason is because there could (SHOULD) be other product using that space in the warehouse and on the shelf that IS selling. They monitor this stuff and when a product is not selling and moving from the warehouse to the shelf to the consumer then the price is lowered, or it goes on sale, the last thing they do is send it to a discounter to get it out of their warehouse to free up the space for product that DOES sell makes the company money.

Walmart’s buying power is so vast that they can hold onto slow moving inventory with no problem.
And as a point of comparison, how many private label products does Walmart have that are slow movers? Show some numbers.
Since you are the self-declared Walmart expert, let's get into it. The truth is, one slow-moving item like Eclipse is not going to hurt them whatsoever.

THAT IS THE SIMPLE FACTS ON HOW RETAIL WORKS....I KNOW this from experience.

I’m glad you take such pride in being a Walmart door greeter.
I bet your motorized scooter, festooned with yellow Walmart smiley buttons, is the highlight of the local special needs parade.

[Monker]

I have never used the word "expense".

You're going on and on about how much money Walmart allegedly lost, but then object to the word "expense"?
What do you think things like merchandising, distribution, and purchasing fall under? These are all a part of Walmart's expenses.

You have no clue what I am talking about. It is not an "expense" for a retailer to purchase a product and have it sit in the warehouse and shelves at the store and not sell. In retail, space = money. In retail, if a product isn't moving...moving from the warehouse to the shelves to the customer, then the retailer is losing money because it could be replaced with something that DOES move and generates profit.

The entire adventure with Eclipse lost money for Walmart. You are just not seeing that because you have no idea how retail really makes their money.

Ah, first you engage in BS semantics, and now you are engaging in the classic logical fallacy of appeal to authority.
You pretend to know more than everybody when you really don't know a thing.

I don't know if I am the only one here who knows how these things work. It would nice if someone speaks up who does...because you obviously can not hold a conversation about it without resorting to insults. You are completely ignorant about it. That is not an insult, it's just a statement of fact.

Up until a few posts ago, you were even oblivious to the fact that Revelation and Eclipse was produced independently by the band.

That's not true either. It is irrelevant to what I was talking about. Who produced Eclipse has nothing to do with Walmart buying FAR too many CD's, having them sit in the warehouse(s) and on the shelf for months, or even years, and not making ANY money for the company.

Walmart’s buying power is so vast that they can hold onto slow moving inventory with no problem.

If Walmart held on to all of its inventory that was not moving, they would go bankrupt.

And as a point of comparison, how many private label products does Walmart have that are slow movers? Show some numbers.

Bottom line is they have as few as possible. If a product doesn't move, you get rid of it. You sell it for a loss to liquidators or discount merchants and such - you get it out of your warehouse and replace it with something that DOES move and generates profit.

This is all just basic stuff...

Since you are the self-declared Walmart expert, let's get into it.

YOU declared that about me. I have never said I was a Walmart expert. I simply understand how retail works. This same principle applies to ANY retailer...Walmart, Target, Best Buy, whoever.

The truth is, one slow-moving item like Eclipse is not going to hurt them whatsoever.

The point is, and the fact is, that Walmart lost money on their Eclipse deal and Journey will never have another deal like the Walmart deal again. It's just not going to happen.

THAT IS THE SIMPLE FACTS ON HOW RETAIL WORKS....I KNOW this from experience.

I’m glad you take such pride in being a Walmart door greeter.
I bet your motorized scooter, festooned with yellow Walmart smiley buttons, is the highlight of the local special needs parade.

I doubt that a simple greeter would understand how all of this works. If they do, they are way under valued and should move on to another company.

[The_Noble_Cause]

You have no clue what I am talking about. It is not an "expense" for a retailer to purchase a product and have it sit in the warehouse and shelves at the store and not sell.

Now we are going to pretend as if supply costs aren't a thing. Ok....

In retail, space = money. In retail, if a product isn't moving...moving from the warehouse to the shelves to the customer, then the retailer is losing money because it could be replaced with something that DOES move and generates profit.

I already covered this. Walmart’s buying power is so vast that they can hold onto slow moving inventory with no problem. You are making them sound like a tiny mom n' pop record store or something. Walmart warehouses in the US encompass over 100 million square feet.

The entire adventure with Eclipse lost money for Walmart. You are just not seeing that because you have no idea how retail really makes their money.

I asked you for specifics. How many units did Walmart need to sell to make a profit on Eclipse? Let's hear some actual numbers.

I don't know if I am the only one here who knows how these things work. It would nice if someone speaks up who does...because you obviously can not hold a conversation about it without resorting to insults. You are completely ignorant about it. That is not an insult, it's just a statement of fact.

Ah, and now you are crying for someone to save your ass. Too funny.

That's not true either. It is irrelevant to what I was talking about. Who produced Eclipse has nothing to do with Walmart buying FAR too many CD's, having them sit in the warehouse(s) and on the shelf for months, or even years, and not making ANY money for the company.

The only expense you just listed is Walmart initially purchasing the product from Nomota. Everything else (warehouses, shelf space) is totally negligible.
As mentioned in that old NYTimes article you love to cite, one of the main goals of the exclusive releases is simply to get customers in the store. Did Walmart over order based upon the surplus of Eclipse cds in the stores? Yes. Were they severely financially impacted by Eclipse? Not in the slightest. Will Eclipse eventually become profitable in the same way Arrival eventually went gold? Entirely possible.

If Walmart held on to all of its inventory that was not moving, they would go bankrupt.

Bottom line is they have as few as possible. If a product doesn't move, you get rid of it. You sell it for a loss to liquidators or discount merchants and such - you get it out of your warehouse and replace it with something that DOES move and generates profit.

This is all just basic stuff...

YOU declared that about me. I have never said I was a Walmart expert. I simply understand how retail works. This same principle applies to ANY retailer...Walmart, Target, Best Buy, whoever.

The point is, and the fact is, that Walmart lost money on their Eclipse deal and Journey will never have another deal like the Walmart deal again. It's just not going to happen.

THAT IS THE SIMPLE FACTS ON HOW RETAIL WORKS....I KNOW this from experience.

I doubt that a simple greeter would understand how all of this works. If they do, they are way under valued and should move on to another company.

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.