New Billboard Article : Neal Schon vs. Everyone

[jestor92]

ROR remains a fan favourite for many, so I think your argument for that doesn't hold up.

At absolute best ROR ranks a very distant third to Escape and Frontiers. I think that Infinity definitely rivals ROR in popularity among most Journey fans too.

ROR I think was their worst album with Perry on vocals. I liked Girl Can’t Help It, I’ll be Alright Without You, Be Good To Yourself, and Raised on Radio. The rest of the album never really did much for me. It’s cool that it’s a favorite to some parts of the fan base and shows how diverse musical tastes are for people. I’m a KISS fan and the album reminds me a lot of Unmasked because a portion of the fan base hates the album because it’s to poppy and a portion loves it because they feel it’s a great pop album. Raised On Radio is very similar in that way.

[jrnyman28]

I would say that since the band moved on from Perry that Schon has gradually gained more and more control of the band.

Nah, after Perry left it was very much Jon and Neal. I would say the changes began after Neal married Michale which is why so many point to her as the Yoko. I think she has been feeding his ego with it reaching toxic level in the last year or two.

[danielb]

ROR is easily in their top 3

[Onestepper]

I didn't have many issues with ROR as some did. I thought it clearly took them in a different direction, and yeah it was very Perry centric. But a lot of people forget that it was actually Cain that started playing around with different synth keyboards and drum machines during that time frame, which Perry then picked up on. If anyone should be tagged with how ROR came out sounding, it should be Jonathan.

[NoMoreTails]

As a high school kid trying to tell friends to look past Open Arms and Faithfully, that Journey was a ROCK band, ROR's release was embarrassing. It has its moments and IBAWY is among their best tunes ever, but it is easily the worst album of their entire catalog for me.

[Gideon]

ROR is arguably peak SP on vocals and it has 2-3 standout tracks (WCTNGOF is prolly the best Journey ballad ever)... but overall it's a shit album imo.

Journey was at its best when SP/NS/JC were balanced and this is partly why, in my humble opinion, Trial By Fire is Journey's best album.

[Onestepper]

ROR is arguably peak SP on vocals and it has 2-3 standout tracks (WCTNGOF is prolly the best Journey ballad ever)... but overall it's a shit album imo.

Journey was at its best when SP/NS/JC were balanced and this is partly why, in my humble opinion, Trial By Fire is Journey's best album.

TBF for me is middle of the pack. Although I think NS and JC really shined instrumentally on that album. Just was very muddy to me.

Everyone has their favorites and least favorites. And the good part is that no one is right or wrong.

[Monker]

I would say that since the band moved on from Perry that Schon has gradually gained more and more control of the band.

Nah, after Perry left it was very much Jon and Neal. I would say the changes began after Neal married Michale which is why so many point to her as the Yoko. I think she has been feeding his ego with it reaching toxic level in the last year or two.

I would agree with this. Back during the Arrival/Augeri days, Neal was giving Jonathan a lot of credit, even with continuing on with the band after Perry. It felt more like a partnership. The problem Neal has today is he wants to rebrand Journey as HIS band that HE founded...but on paper, legally, the LLC that has the rights to the Journey trademark is owned by both Neal AND Jonathan...so he controls nothing on his own.

[Monker]

ROR is easily in their top 3

Correct, ROR is one of the top 3 worst albums Journey has released

[Monker]

I was young when they were in their heyday, so I don't really remember the vibe of the band back then. I was probably more of a casual fan until Greatest Hits. Were they always looked at and identified as Neal's Band? Was he ever considered the driving factor/selling point of the band? Or did this identity really come to the foreground after Perry left?

Every video, interview and article that I have seen, heard or read from back then paints the picture of a collaborative band with Herbie at the wheel. Perry and Schon are always mentioned as the driving forces, but I don't remember ever seeing anything from this time that really paints it as Neal's band. Was that something that was understood back then?

The band was built around Schon originally. It was his band to begin with, although Herbie Herbert was also running the band in many ways. As time went by Herbert started being more insistent about certain things like hiring Perry.

It was NOT Neal's band. Herbie hired all the members to build a band around Neal's guitar, that is true...and that was Herbie's vision. None of the hiring/firing decisions were made by anybody else besides Herbie, until ROR It was Herbie's who pushed the band into a more vocal band and hired Fleischman. It was Herbie who booked a headlining tour for Infinity, before they had really even earned it. Neal, and everybody else, rode on Herbie's coattails.

I would say that since the band moved on from Perry that Schon has gradually gained more and more control of the band.

The truth is that Neal has NOT gained more control of the band. That is what he wants the public to believe, but the truth is he shares control of the band with Jonathan...it has been that way since Perry left and a new LLC was formed were Neal and Jonathan were the ones running it. The only way Neal gets control of Journey is if Jonathan quits...Neal CAN'T even fire him.

[NoMoreTails]

The truth is that Neal has NOT gained more control of the band. That is what he wants the public to believe, but the truth is he shares control of the band with Jonathan...it has been that way since Perry left and a new LLC was formed were Neal and Jonathan were the ones running it. The only way Neal gets control of Journey is if Jonathan quits...Neal CAN'T even fire him.

Nor can Neal afford to buy him out of the partnership. It would be more costly to get rid of Jon now than it has been to compensate Perry as the brand is worth much more than it was in 1998. I think if Neal had shown he was capable of running things himself (with the help of a manager), Cain may well have been glad to sit at home and collect his 50% at this point. Ironically, I think Neal's trying to make Cain miserable enough to quit (assuming that's what all of the bs is about) has just insured that he won't.

[wednesday's child]

ROR is easily in their top 3

Correct, ROR is one of the top 3 worst albums Journey has released

[TageRyche]

So now this forum has two bands that quite literally should pack it in and never heard from again because off the crapping on the legacy they built up in the past. First Survivor and then Journey says "Hold My Beer!"

[Memorex]

My two cents. I thought I had said this before, but I don't see it.

Before I get to that, ROR is an amazing record and for me it's that and TBF that I listen to the most.

Anyway, look at the concert receipts from these past several years. I would tour with my 7 worst enemies, my ex wife, and all my ex girlfriends just to go on stage and go through the motions for that much money. What's the downside? That some people aren't going? Well, the seats are getting filled somehow. That may wear off one day, but not yet. No one is leaving because of this stupid divide.

[Archetype]

All this debate about ROR made me just listen to it start to finish. It’s a damn good album. Actually extremely underrated. Definitely a much more mature sound and so much soul in Steve’s voice.

[The_Noble_Cause]

I think alot of ROR songs (GCHI, PT, IBAWY, Suzanne, BGTY) really perfected the motown rock blueprint Cain / Perry laid down on previous songs like "Ask The Lonely" etc.

But there's some other stuff that I just can't support whatsoever (Eyes of Woman...Could Have Been You...Happy To Give). Doesn't even sound like Journey to me.

[The_Noble_Cause]

New legal document from Team Schon.

Neal now seeks to demure Cain's cross-complaint. This means Cain's allegations (breach of fiduciary duty) may be true, but they aren't specific enough to constitute a cause of action.

Really just a tangled maze of legalese. My opinion? Neal is stalling.


https://odyportal.cc-courts.org/Portal/ ... ZB5-270WCo

[danielb]

All this debate about ROR made me just listen to it start to finish. It’s a damn good album. Actually extremely underrated. Definitely a much more mature sound and so much soul in Steve’s voice.

Yep. My favorite SP performances are on this album

[SoonerThunder]

ROR is a great Steve Perry record and an OK Journey album

[Journey/Survivor]

ROR is a great Steve Perry record and an OK Journey album

Those are my thoughts exactly.

If you view it as a Steve Perry solo album, it was his best. But as a Journey album it ranks low. ROR is second from least favorite of the Steve Perry Journey albums for me. It's only ahead of Evolution on my list.

[Deb]

All this debate about ROR made me just listen to it start to finish. It’s a damn good album. Actually extremely underrated. Definitely a much more mature sound and so much soul in Steve’s voice.

Couldn't agree more! If I could go back in time and pick one Journey concert to see, it would be this one........

https://youtu.be/h9TgWj2Kln4

[danielb]

I think there is some very refined songwriting on ROR with Positive Touch being one of their finer moments in that regard. The way it starts out upbeat, only to take a left turn with that melancholic sax solo which Perry plays along with, letting his voice crack to signal the despair he is in. This is why there is Perry and then the other singers in Journey

There is only one track on the album that is a little light weight and it's the title track, although that works too in the context.

[Memorex]

All this debate about ROR made me just listen to it start to finish. It’s a damn good album. Actually extremely underrated. Definitely a much more mature sound and so much soul in Steve’s voice.

Couldn't agree more! If I could go back in time and pick one Journey concert to see, it would be this one........

https://youtu.be/h9TgWj2Kln4

I was there and it was my fave Journey concert of all I have seen. It was longer than the rest of the tour as well.

[Loneman1]

All this debate about ROR made me just listen to it start to finish. It’s a damn good album. Actually extremely underrated. Definitely a much more mature sound and so much soul in Steve’s voice.

Couldn't agree more! If I could go back in time and pick one Journey concert to see, it would be this one........

https://youtu.be/h9TgWj2Kln4

I was there and it was my fave Journey concert of all I have seen. It was longer than the rest of the tour as well.

Dude that is awesome! I know it was like 30+ years ago, but do you remember what ROR songs they performed vs the rest of the tour? This is one full show that needs to be released someday, or at the very least a bootleg/pro-shot video. Wasn't it the Calaveras County show that Deano claimed to have in his vault way back in the day?

[Memorex]

Dude that is awesome! I know it was like 30+ years ago, but do you remember what ROR songs they performed vs the rest of the tour? This is one full show that needs to be released someday, or at the very least a bootleg/pro-shot video. Wasn't it the Calaveras County show that Deano claimed to have in his vault way back in the day?

August of 1986. Hot as fuck! Took 6 hours to get out of the parking lot because someone got jammed in. And the dude that was driving fell asleep on the freeway and hit the side of the road, making it impossible for me to trust another person driving ever again.

Four ROR songs, plus the first time hearing Only the Young and Ask the Lonely live. Plus, the first time hearing Strung Out and Oh Sherrie live. Add that up and a third of the set list was first time performances.

I saw them five times on that tour. I felt like the later shows I saw in December were sped up a little compared to Calavaras. I had hated how sped up the Frontiers tour was. They played everything way too fast for me. Calavaras did not feel like that.

Full set list:
https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/journey/1986/calaveras-county-fairgrounds-angels-camp-ca-3c3f18f.html

Before looking at that set list, I would have put my money on then having performed Foolish Heart there. I'm wondering if I created a fake memory.

[Loneman1]

Dude that is awesome! I know it was like 30+ years ago, but do you remember what ROR songs they performed vs the rest of the tour? This is one full show that needs to be released someday, or at the very least a bootleg/pro-shot video. Wasn't it the Calaveras County show that Deano claimed to have in his vault way back in the day?

August of 1986. Hot as fuck! Took 6 hours to get out of the parking lot because someone got jammed in. And the dude that was driving fell asleep on the freeway and hit the side of the road, making it impossible for me to trust another person driving ever again.

Four ROR songs, plus the first time hearing Only the Young and Ask the Lonely live. Plus, the first time hearing Strung Out and Oh Sherrie live. Add that up and a third of the set list was first time performances.

I saw them five times on that tour. I felt like the later shows I saw in December were sped up a little compared to Calavaras. I had hated how sped up the Frontiers tour was. They played everything way too fast for me. Calavaras did not feel like that.

Full set list:
https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/journey/1986/calaveras-county-fairgrounds-angels-camp-ca-3c3f18f.html

Before looking at that set list, I would have put my money on then having performed Foolish Heart there. I'm wondering if I created a fake memory.

Very cool, thanks for the insight!! That's really a pain in the ass when you get blocked in due to some asshole not knowing how to park.....6 friggin hours is homicide worthy.

I thought I remembered hearing something about "Positive Touch" or another rarity (like "Foolish Heart" perhaps) being played and was kinda iffy about the setlist on setlist.fm since it just looked like someone copy and pasted an average early ROR concert. I definitely agree on the speeding up of the shows to fit more songs in sometimes. It ruins the impact of the songs!

[musicfan17]

As a lifelong fan and occasional poster here...

Two things... I will never go to another Journey concert. There is nothing left there for me personally. This whole legal mess just puts a very, very sad ending to one of my once favorite bands. At least I still have all the great music they created in my collection. Infinty thru Frontiers are my favorite albums.

Finally, although it's just my opinion... ROR was nothing more than a second Steve Perry album with a better guitarist. Quite possibly the weakest, watered down album they ever released during the Perry era. Are there some decent songs on it...sure.

[UrbanCoyote]

Saw them in Memphis November 1986. Hands down the best Journey concert I've seen, and one of the best shows I've seen overall. They we're on fire that night.

[Arkansas]

Saw them in Memphis November 1986. Hands down the best Journey concert I've seen, and one of the best shows I've seen overall. They we're on fire that night.

+1, MidSouth Coliseum, no opener just 2 hrs of awesome!

later~

[UrbanCoyote]

Saw them in Memphis November 1986. Hands down the best Journey concert I've seen, and one of the best shows I've seen overall. They we're on fire that night.

+1, MidSouth Coliseum, no opener just 2 hrs of awesome!

later~

That's right. Glass Tiger was supposed to open. Wonder why they dropped off the tour?