More Drama- JTT

[danielb]

Exactly.

The reason he tours as JTT rather than NS is because the Journey name sells tickets. The same reason why you won't see Mick Jagger do a solo tour. It's a music business after all.

Even though JTT is not a huge money making machine, I am sure they are looking to recoup their costs. It's not a charity event. Would you go to work for free? Maybe this is where Neal and Gregg differ. Neal is in the driver's seat and has costs to cover, while Gregg possibly viewed it as participation for a good cause, even though I believe only the SF date was a charity event, not the remaining dates on the original run.

It could also be that Gregg wants more money for his and/or his band members' participation, and when not getting it, he decided to bow out of the band and the French festival appearance. The line about "not fairly paying other working musicians" possibly suggest so. This is just speculation on my part.

I believe no one here has the full inside scoop.

[Journey/Survivor]

No contradiction. Journey in arenas makes more money than JTT in clubs/theaters. NS going out as JTT is likely not a money motivated move, but rather a way to stay active since Cain wants more down time than Neal (and Neal needs Cain to tour as Journey).

I do agree with what Gregg Rolie is saying and doing!

But I agree with danielb in this case. I don't see this as some big money motivated move by Schon. He's not going to make any tremendous amount of money from a JTT tour.

A "big" move, maybe not. But, it is a contradiction. If all Neal wants is to remain active and "do something" between Journey tours, he could tour as "Neal Schon". He could probably find someone else to partner with to do a project with. He could also do it in the US and not travel to Europe, unless he agreed not to. How much did the festival pay for "JOURNEY Through Time"? It's pretty obvious to me that they had to make it worth a trip for him to agree to do it.

My point is, Neal is NOT doing "JOURNEY Through Time" for the fans, or for the music, or for a charity. He's doing it for selfish reasons and because someone is willing to pay him for it. Gregg's reasons seemed to be the exact opposite.

Also, you are back to blaming Jonathan. Why would he NOT want time off after touring for about a year straight? It's getting a bit silly. These are NEAL's decisions. They have nothing to do with Jonathan. He's just a scapegoat for Neal's dysfunctional behavior.

Not only did I not mention Cain, but I wasn't even thinking about him at any point while I made my post.

[danielb]

Also, you are back to blaming Jonathan. Why would he NOT want time off after touring for about a year straight?

Journey never tours for a year straight. Granted, the JRNY / Toto spring run was a long run, but it was done at a leisurely pace with many days off in between (which Toto used for headlining shows). The 3 month long tour was preceded by 4 months off. Since the spring tour ended, they have only done a handful of shows. Neal needs something to do while Cain goes to Israel

[The_Noble_Cause]

Exactly.

The reason he tours as JTT rather than NS is because the Journey name sells tickets. The same reason why you won't see Mick Jagger do a solo tour. It's a music business after all.

And the goal of a business is to be profitable.

None of you are making the point you think you are making.

Of course this is about money - or worse, as Gregg mentioned in the legal document, it's "greed."

@danielb - You, in particular, aren't even attempting to have a coherent argument. First you claim if Neal was truly concerned about money he would have gone out as Journey. When I tell you that's legally impossible, you switch to saying he's going out under "(JOURNEY) through time" just to be profitable. Yeah, no shit. That's the point!

To me, It doesn't even sound like Gregg was going to be at these shows. The name Journey was used just so The Schons could get a 100K advance. It's sleazy as hell.

[danielb]

No one here claims that Neal could go out as Journey on his own, without Cain.

It could be that Neal simply enjoys staying active and that JTT serves as an outlet for him to perform songs other than the dirty dozen. There seems to be an audience for it, although at a club level, so any profits made are going to be modest compared to the cashflow Journey is generating.

[danielb]

If Neal's main concern was making money, he would have gone out as Journey, where the big money is.

Let me rephrase. If Neal's main concern was making money, he would have focused his efforts on touring as much as possible with Journey, with Cain, since Cain's participation is required for him to go out as Journey.

Hope more clear

[The_Noble_Cause]

Let me rephrase. If Neal's main concern was making money, he would have focused his efforts on touring as much as possible with Journey, with Cain, since Cain's participation is required for him to go out as Journey.

Hope more clear

They are doing this. Even Cain said they were one of the few bands to tour early coming out of covid and it was a gamble. They tour basically every year.

[Gideon]

Goddamn, it's hard not to see this shit and blame some of it on Michaele. The worst thing she did was inflame Neal's narcissism. I miss the days when dude would just shut the fuck up, play the guitar, and push for new music.

I look at how Def Leppard's handled their twilight years compared to Journey and it makes me sick. The polish, the social media presence, etc.

Honestly, Journey's gotten so many hail marys over the years... Lollapalooza, the iHeart Music festival, and other high profile gigs and appearances, and they squandered that shit. It's a tragedy.

Oh whale, at least I got to enjoy Arnel, multiple enjoyable concerts, Eclipse, and a handful of tunes off the otherwise unremarkable Revelation and Freedom.

[Monker]

No one here claims that Neal could go out as Journey on his own, without Cain.

Actually, he could. If Jonathan wants to stay home and as part of the LLC tells Neal to tour without him, Neal could...as long as as long as Jonathan is paid what he is owed as part of the LLC...and Nightmare doesn't have any way to complain and revoke the license to the Journey trademark.

It could be that Neal simply enjoys staying active and that JTT serves as an outlet for him to perform songs other than the dirty dozen. There seems to be an audience for it, although at a club level, so any profits made are going to be modest compared to the cashflow Journey is generating.

Then he could tour on his own as Neal Schon. Think about why he tours as "Journey Through Time".

[Monker]

Exactly.

The reason he tours as JTT rather than NS is because the Journey name sells tickets.

EXACTLY....it is ABOUT THE MONEY.

The same reason why you won't see Mick Jagger do a solo tour. It's a music business after all.

Funny. I saw a Gregg Rolie solo show....he toured solo for several years. Wonder who would sell more tickets between him and Mick Jagger.

Even though JTT is not a huge money making machine, I am sure they are looking to recoup their costs. It's not a charity event. Would you go to work for free? Maybe this is where Neal and Gregg differ.

That is not exactly what Gregg was saying. He was saying the spirit behind the concert that was released was that it was for charity. Now, releasing it instead of the release he agreed to, and misrepresenting JTT at the France event was losing that original spirit. You do not take into account that Gregg is all about the fans. THAT is what matters to him. Did he get paid for the Journey concert he sat in with recently? Did he even get paid for the concert that is on the release? There is a huge chance that he did NOT...because he did it for the charity and/or fans. THAT is who he is.

Neal is in the driver's seat and has costs to cover

Are you sure about that? JTT is a different band and I doubt anybody here knows who holds the power. The fact is that Neal likes to pretend he is the all powerful, but he is not even the only one in the driver's seat of Journey...the number of legal complaints proves that.

while Gregg possibly viewed it as participation for a good cause, even though I believe only the SF date was a charity event, not the remaining dates on the original run.

What are you talking about? Gregg never said or implied that the entire tour was for charity.

It could also be that Gregg wants more money for his and/or his band members' participation, and when not getting it, he decided to bow out of the band and the French festival appearance. The line about "not fairly paying other working musicians" possibly suggest so. This is just speculation on my part.

Your speculation basically calls Gregg a liar. After reading Gregg's comments, I doubt he was even invited to France.

[Andrew]

Journey are setting up another USA run for 2024.

[Memorex]

My thought. Tell me one band that doesn't tour for money. Tell me one band that should.

[danielb]

My thought. Tell me one band that doesn't tour for money. Tell me one band that should.

Amen.

[Monker]

My thought. Tell me one band that doesn't tour for money. Tell me one band that should.

Yes, but normally when a member of a top tier band goes solo, he is not allowed to start an off shoot band using the top tier's band name.

The point isn't that JTT should not make money. The point is that Neal is using JTT as JTT to make MORE money than he would touring as "Neal Schon".

[danielb]

Does this mean that Perry could only do songs from ST / FTLOSM / Traces and no Journey songs, if he ever was to tour again?

[kmjrr]

It means he couldn't tour as "Traces of JOURNEY"

[youkeepmewaiting]

God damn it, I don't what they call it, I just want to hear some Journey songs live in the UK again

[Monker]

Does this mean that Perry could only do songs from ST / FTLOSM / Traces and no Journey songs, if he ever was to tour again?

He can perform any songs he wants. He can perform "Higher Place" and "No More Lies" if he wants to. As long as the venue pays the ASCAP fees. And, Journey, or JTT, or Styx can perform "Foolish Heart" and "Oh, Sherry". ANY band or artist can perform ANY song they want to live. How do you think tribute bands perform the songs they do?

BUT, he can't release any video unless he gets synch rights. He can't even release it on YouTube. Well, he can, but he risks being sued for releasing the Blu-Ray/DVD and/or the YT video being taken down.

[Monker]

It means he couldn't tour as "Traces of JOURNEY"

Correct...unless NIghtmare agrees to it.

[danielb]

I understand that there's not a lot going on in Journey world right now, so it's good that we have something to discuss.

But when I look at the cover art I think it's pretty obvious that this is a NS solo project:

https://www.amazon.com/Journey-Through- ... B0BW2KJK5B

Any promoters will always attempt to spin the Journey name, given that it sells tickets. As we discussed, it's a business.

Not *everything* bad is the result from Schon's actions. The black and white line of thinking that NS is all about greed and GR all about the fans is a bit tiresome, frankly. Especially before hearing from both sides.

Without knowing all the details, one should probably not jump to conclusions too quickly.

The fact that the French festival was listed under Journey tourdates on their website, could simply have been the result from a script picking up Journey related tourdates. We don't know. And it was quickly taken down.

[The_Noble_Cause]

But when I look at the cover art I think it's pretty obvious that this is a NS solo project:

https://www.amazon.com/Journey-Through- ... B0BW2KJK5B

It doesn't matter what it's called. If Gregg didn't sign-off on it, it shouldn't be out there.

Not *everything* bad is the result from Schon's actions. The black and white line of thinking that NS is all about greed and GR all about the fans is a bit tiresome, frankly. Especially before hearing from both sides.

Without knowing all the details, one should probably not jump to conclusions too quickly.

Context matters and actions don't exist in a bubble. Greg has been humble and classy his entire career. The fact that this letter went public speaks volumes.
The less said about Neal and Lady M's recent attention-seeking - and gross - behavior, the better. There's plenty of specific examples to cite.

The fact that the French festival was listed under Journey tourdates on their website, could simply have been the result from a script picking up Journey related tourdates. We don't know. And it was quickly taken down.

If this was remotely true, the website would get bombarded/spammed with dates from all sorts of Journey cover bands out there. You are just making up absolute nonsense.

[danielb]

You don't have the background on why the date ended up on Journey's website and neither do I.

[The_Noble_Cause]

You don't have the background on why the date ended up on Journey's website and neither do I.

We've already discussed how many amateurish aspects of the official website, like the bios, sound like they were written by Lady M. I would imagine the tour dates are also updated by her or a member of her entourage.

I'm surprised you haven't claimed that Gregg hired a hacker to put those dates on there just so he could get some media attention.

Keep spinning.

[Eric]

You don't have the background on why the date ended up on Journey's website and neither do I.

We've already discussed how many amateurish aspects of the official website, like the bios, sound like they were written by Lady M. I would imagine the tour dates are also updated by her or a member of her entourage.

I'm surprised you haven't claimed that Gregg hired a hacker to put those dates on there just so he could get some media attention.

Keep spinning.

Do you (or anyone else) remember that huge site update in the mid to late 00’s that was like an early version of something meta? You could choose your avatar and walk around a Journey “world” to read bios. I think the goal was to put concert videos up. That just vanished?

[The_Noble_Cause]

You don't have the background on why the date ended up on Journey's website and neither do I.

We've already discussed how many amateurish aspects of the official website, like the bios, sound like they were written by Lady M. I would imagine the tour dates are also updated by her or a member of her entourage.

I'm surprised you haven't claimed that Gregg hired a hacker to put those dates on there just so he could get some media attention.

Keep spinning.

Do you (or anyone else) remember that huge site update in the mid to late 00’s that was like an early version of something meta? You could choose your avatar and walk around a Journey “world” to read bios. I think the goal was to put concert videos up. That just vanished?

I don't, that sounds interesting. I recall the animated opening page during Arrival and then CJ and her husband kept running it and then Neal gave it to his then gf around the time of Revelation. Neither were up to par, but the current website is really no better. Ever since leaving Sony, almost everything this band has done has been on the cheap side. At least CJ cared and was a professional.

[Arkansas]

Do you (or anyone else) remember that huge site update in the mid to late 00’s that was like an early version of something meta? You could choose your avatar and walk around a Journey “world” to read bios. I think the goal was to put concert videos up. That just vanished?

I don't, that sounds interesting. I recall the animated opening page during Arrival and then CJ and her husband kept running it and then Neal gave it to his then gf around the time of Revelation. Neither were up to par, but the current website is really no better. Ever since leaving Sony, almost everything this band has done has been on the cheap side. At least CJ cared and was a professional.

There was a quasi-reality site called '2nd Life' where CJ built a Journey community. Many forum members, including Ross Valory, joined, and there was all sorts of hype around it. Not sure how long it lasted.
https://secondlife.com/


later~

[Monker]

Do you (or anyone else) remember that huge site update in the mid to late 00’s that was like an early version of something meta? You could choose your avatar and walk around a Journey “world” to read bios. I think the goal was to put concert videos up. That just vanished?

I don't, that sounds interesting. I recall the animated opening page during Arrival and then CJ and her husband kept running it and then Neal gave it to his then gf around the time of Revelation. Neither were up to par, but the current website is really no better. Ever since leaving Sony, almost everything this band has done has been on the cheap side. At least CJ cared and was a professional.

There was a quasi-reality site called '2nd Life' where CJ built a Journey community. Many forum members, including Ross Valory, joined, and there was all sorts of hype around it. Not sure how long it lasted.
https://secondlife.com/

I remember Second Life, sorta like "Ready Player One" without the VR aspect. I can understand why some people got into it, but it was a bit too far for me to get into. There was probably a monthly fee involved, too. I did not know there was a Journey "community" in it.

[Monker]

The fact that the French festival was listed under Journey tourdates on their website, could simply have been the result from a script picking up Journey related tourdates. We don't know. And it was quickly taken down.

What an ignorant comment. The official Journey website using a script to gather tour dates would be an incredibly dumb move...and what site contained the dates for the script to look at? That is the type of thing that a fan site would do, and it would look towards "bandsintown" or ticketmaster...which I do not believe had the France dates. In addition, there is probably an API to call to get such things so writing a script to scrub through various websites would not be needed (that is 20yr old methodology). In addition, why would a script scrubbing for "JOURNEY" tour dates "accidently" pick up on Jtt tour dates....it makes no sense.

It was added by whoever is in charge of the Journey website...at the direction of someone who knew the dates, like Neal.

And, with a simple Google search, here you go:
https://artists.bandsintown.com/support ... stallation

For Journey what they would do is add the dates to bandsintown and then use an API call to the bandsintown API to gather the dates and then display them, pretty simple. But, they would pick up ONLY Journey dates...they would have to specifically go after JTT to find them. Anyway, they are too cheap to pay a developer to do that so IMO it is just a list in the HTML for the page that anybody could add, even Neal or his wife.

[RumTumJM]

Journey are setting up another USA run for 2024.

Is the plan still for them to play stadiums with Def Leppard?

[The_Noble_Cause]

Journey are setting up another USA run for 2024.

Is the plan still for them to play stadiums with Def Leppard?

Def's manager - Mike Kobayashi - was managing JRNY for a hot second. Depending how things went down, I could see Kobayashi nixing the plans. But it will prolly go forward.

I never thought Leppard and Journey were a good match. I've skipped all those tours.