New Journey Book

[Onestepper]

It's not surprising at all to me that Perry comes off like an a-hole. I've always thought that way about him based solely on how he handled himself in relation to the band. When you're that talented and a large part of why a band is successful, I guess you can get away with being that way.

[Monker]

Quoting a paragraph in the book:

There were brief hints that Storm front man Kevin Chalfant might be brought into a reformulated Journey lineup including Rolie, Neal Schon, and Jonathan Cain. That concerned Herbert, who appreciated Chalfant's talent but felt "He was too much like Perry," Herbert told Matthew Carty. "He would have been a problem child just like Perry was."

If that is all that is said, he is taking it out of context. It is also incorrect. The band had reformed under Herbie and the lineup mentioned above. This is more than just hints. As I have said many times, there was a band meeting on a canceled FTLOSM Florida date to decide the band's future. The band and Sony decided to fire Herbie and move forward with the TBF lineup. The band with Chalfant even wrote songs together. One is on one of the Two Fires CD's. It aligns with the forms submitted into evidence in the Schon vs Smith/Valory lawsuit(s)...a letter was sent to Elmo Partners from Herbie/Nightmare saying they had not used the Journey name and Nightmare was expiring their license. That would mean that Herbie/Nightmare would be free to use the name for a Chalfant fronted Journey. They were at a stage of recording an album and releasing it...if Sony agreed to it.

The interview with Herbie was decades ago by now. Herbie basically said Chalfant was opinionated and strong willed to get his way. He also said something about him being out of shape and that he always had a hamburger in his hand. This interview was also AFTER TBF and not prior to the TBF reunion when Chalfant was essentially in the band. Chalfant commented on all this in a question to his Guestbook (remember those?) to his webpage. He said that is somewhat true, that he would get ideas for songs and fight for vision. But, he had no hard feeling for Herbie, that he was the best in the business. I remember this so well because he said, "If Herbie called and wanted to meet me for an important opportunity, I would on the first available flight to SF, hamburger in hand, waiting for him at the airport."

This is also the same place where Chalfant compared Herbie's and Journey's relationship to "Mutiny on the Bounty". There are several different perspectives on that. The one that the questioner had was that Herbie ran such a tight ship that it forced the band to rebel against him to get their freedom. Mine was that Herbie is THE reason the band had such a high level of success, that his experience and knowledge guided the band to the huge success they had. But, the band thought they could do it on their own and lessened his role during ROR and fired him for TBF, and never could achieve the same success they had with Herbie.

[kmjrr]

There's another Journey book coming out February 6.

Livin' Just to Find Emotion: Journey and the Story of American Rock https://a.co/d/3aZJDNu

[The_Noble_Cause]

Quoting a paragraph in the book:

There were brief hints that Storm front man Kevin Chalfant might be brought into a reformulated Journey lineup including Rolie, Neal Schon, and Jonathan Cain. That concerned Herbert, who appreciated Chalfant's talent but felt "He was too much like Perry," Herbert told Matthew Carty. "He would have been a problem child just like Perry was."

Sounds like it's just one quote from the old Carty Castles Burning interview. Overwhelmingly, Herbie was very positive towards Kevin in that interview. Herbie continue to make a strong case for Chalfant, three singers later, when talking to Andrew here on MR.

[The_Noble_Cause]

He also said something about him being out of shape and that he always had a hamburger in his hand.

I believe the hamburger quote was in reference to Kevin not needing to warm up. Herbie said something like, Kevin would be eating a plate of hamburgers backstage and can just go out totally cold and nail the songs. There was also a separate line about Augeri looking better or more attractive than Kevin. I'll dig it up when I have a chance.

[Journey/Survivor]

I quickly went back to reread a few things in the book.

It was Cain who was quoted as saying that Chalfant had never been given any serious consideration for Journey.

quoting the book:........

The popular theory was always that Chalfant lost the job when Perry re-entered the picture. But Cain said Journey had not seriously considered Chalfant for front man duties before reuniting with Perry for Trial By Fire - or after Perry's final departure.

"We looked at him for a second," Cain told Michael Cavacini, but "We never talked about Chalfant or anybody. We just walked away from it realizing that we had come to an impasse."

Journey/Survivor now talking: Herbert went on to say that he thinks that Cain had prior baggage with Chalfant and didn't want him in the band, and that baggage is Cain's middle name.
Herbert did go onto say that they probably should have followed through with Chalfant.

But I'm pretty sure that I read something where Herbert said something about Augeri being a better quality human being than Perry or Chalfant are?

For the record I am a big fan of Chalfant, and I think that he should have gotten the Journey job back in the 90s.

[The_Noble_Cause]

But I'm pretty sure that I read something where Herbert said something about Augeri being a better quality human being than Perry or Chalfant are?

For the record I am a big fan of Chalfant, and I think that he should have gotten the Journey job back in the 90s.

I believe that quote is also from the Matt Carty Castles Burning interview. Herbie said SA is a better citizen or something.

[Journey/Survivor]

Herbie Herbert said that Augeri is a "Better guy" than Perry and Chalfant, and is a much more "Solid citizen" than Perry and Chalfant.

So anyway, I had miss-remembered part of what Herbert had said about Chalfant being Journey's potential singer. But it would appear that Herbert may not have thought too highly of Chalfant on a personal level? And Cain dismissed the idea that they considered Chalfant.

[Monker]

I barely remember that Cain interview. But, I remember taking it as Cain saying they did not really consider him after TBF.

If talking about before TBF, the two stories below contradict each other...Cain saying they did not consider him....and Herbie saying he wished they had followed through with him. I still believe he is talking after TBF and/or after Augeri.

I remember Herbie saying that Cain had some previous bias towards Chalfant. I always thought he was talking about Cain cowriting on the 707 Megaforce album. But, they are both from the Chicago area so maybe they had other dealings, prior to Jonathan joining Journey. Anyway, Herbie saying they should have followed through with Chalfant should tell you that Chalfant was more than seriously considered for the band back in the early 90's. But, it was not Herbie's decision, it was the band and Sony's decision to go with Perry.

I quickly went back to reread a few things in the book.

It was Cain who was quoted as saying that Chalfant had never been given any serious consideration for Journey.

quoting the book:........

The popular theory was always that Chalfant lost the job when Perry re-entered the picture. But Cain said Journey had not seriously considered Chalfant for front man duties before reuniting with Perry for Trial By Fire - or after Perry's final departure.

"We looked at him for a second," Cain told Michael Cavacini, but "We never talked about Chalfant or anybody. We just walked away from it realizing that we had come to an impasse."

Journey/Survivor now talking: Herbert went on to say that he thinks that Cain had prior baggage with Chalfant and didn't want him in the band, and that baggage is Cain's middle name.
Herbert did go onto say that they probably should have followed through with Chalfant.

But I'm pretty sure that I read something where Herbert said something about Augeri being a better quality human being than Perry or Chalfant are?

For the record I am a big fan of Chalfant, and I think that he should have gotten the Journey job back in the 90s.

[Monker]

Herbie Herbert said that Augeri is a "Better guy" than Perry and Chalfant, and is a much more "Solid citizen" than Perry and Chalfant.

So anyway, I had miss-remembered part of what Herbert had said about Chalfant being Journey's potential singer. But it would appear that Herbert may not have thought too highly of Chalfant on a personal level? And Cain dismissed the idea that they considered Chalfant.

I don't think that is true at all. In that Castle's Burning interview, Herbie put the smack down on EVERYBODY, even Neal. He told it like it is. The worst he said about Chalfant is that he is out of shape, eats too many hamburgers, and is not as attractive as Augeri. If he had any other personal insults to throw at Chalfant, he would have...what he said about Chalfant is mild compared to his comments about the rest of the band.

Cain is either wrong, lying, or is talking about considering Chalfant after TBF. He contradicts what Herbie said. I believe Herbie...and I believe Cain is talking about after TBF. I mean, Chalfant performed with Journey at the Herbie roast and wrote songs with the band.

[Marabelle]

I think Mr Perry really was the as* h*ole but not after a lot of but* kissing and chants about how he was the absolute greatest in the land and giving him the green light to do whatever he wanted to do because they loved the money and adoration and feeling he could lead them to the promised land. So, he took advantage of all that worshipping but began to realize that time has a way of effecting his voice but making him think that maybe if he had just the right accompaniments he could keep his instrument strong and perfect. So he fires some members and gets the people whom he thinks can do just that and he hitches his pants up and it seriously dawns on him that he can not do what he use to do and no amount of rest and tomfoolery can make a difference as* hole or not. So the right thing to do which he did was bow out gracefully and God knows he tried and they kept up the pressure and adoration but he knew he could still be considered the best by just sitting comfortably on his many achievements and laurels. Really no shame in his game!

[Monker]

I think Mr Perry really was the as* h*ole but not after a lot of but* kissing and chants about how he was the absolute greatest in the land and giving him the green light to do whatever he wanted to do because they loved the money and adoration and feeling he could lead them to the promised land. So, he took advantage of all that worshipping but began to realize that time has a way of effecting his voice but making him think that maybe if he had just the right accompaniments he could keep his instrument strong and perfect. So he fires some members and gets the people whom he thinks can do just that and he hitches his pants up and it seriously dawns on him that he can not do what he use to do and no amount of rest and tomfoolery can make a difference as* hole or not. So the right thing to do which he did was bow out gracefully and God knows he tried and they kept up the pressure and adoration but he knew he could still be considered the best by just sitting comfortably on his many achievements and laurels. Really no shame in his game!

With Journey, most of their decisions were based on $'s. So, yes, they gave Perry whatever he wanted to come back to the band for both ROR and TBF. It is OBVIOUS that Neal and Jon KNOW that having Perry in the band generates easy money, rather than having to build up a new following for a new singer. Perry said he joined for ROR because his mom requested it. He fired Smith/Valory it seems because he wanted a more modern sound with click tracks and electronics, etc...and Neal and Jon went along with it....$'s. He did not continue the ROR because his voice broke and was failing him by the end of the first half of the tour....and he claims burnout, face entering the atmosphere, etc.

The problem with Perry is that he started losing his head voice during Frontiers and it he could not use it at all by the end of the ROR tour. Yes, I believe aging was a part of it, and touring aggravating it. But, if you listen to "Friends of Mine" on YT, you can hear that he had most of it back by 1989 and he sounds GREAT. But, it changed by FTLOSM to being rougher and it now seems he has completely lost his head voice on Traces...but at 75, it should be expected.

Anyway, I don't think it was just a matter of bowing gracefully out. I think changes in his aging voice forced him to...and I think he may have been a bit insecure about those changes and how they would be received after FTLOSM and TBF. To this day, IMO, Neal and Jon would welcome him back in any way he wanted....because they know it would mean $'s to pay Neal's credit card bill and what he added to Journey's.

[Memorex]

For what it's worth, I recently saw a post where David Pack has the same deal with Ambrosia. He still makes money on what they do, even above publishing/song rights. He makes a cut of the concerts, etc.

I look at it this way - the band was asked to give up some of their money in order to build up the business that was Journey. The payoff to that is a cut of the name, and some future return on investment. If the band was going to kick Perry to the curb, he was entitled to his investment. How much? Fuck if I know. It sounds like he made himself a great deal, but I think we all know what his contribution was to the band and to the business. No one would be going to a Journey concert had Perry not been there to help build the brand.

It was mentioned Perry was making more than the band. I find that hard to believe when the first tour was to pay him 50% of what EITHER Neal or John got (not both).

Also, no one thought Journey would get back to the level they are, I'm sure. It turned out to be a good deal for Steve, but who knew at the time?

[Jeremey]

Jeremey Hunsicker: You probably know this already, but you are quoted in the book.

JSS is also mentioned and quoted in the book.

Jeremey and JSS do come off well as people. Not that I ever thought differently.

There are a couple of mentions of JSS possibly not being a great fit as far as range is concerned, but that's the only negative said about him. There are positive things said about his talent too.

Schon mentions Jeremey being scary similar to Perry singing wise.

Interesting, this post is the first I've heard of this book and I was definitely never interviewed for the book. What context is my quote being used, is it referenced from another interview I had done in the past?

[Jeremey]

The interview with Herbie was decades ago by now. Herbie basically said Chalfant was opinionated and strong willed to get his way. He also said something about him being out of shape and that he always had a hamburger in his hand. This interview was also AFTER TBF and not prior to the TBF reunion when Chalfant was essentially in the band. Chalfant commented on all this in a question to his Guestbook (remember those?) to his webpage. He said that is somewhat true, that he would get ideas for songs and fight for vision. But, he had no hard feeling for Herbie, that he was the best in the business. I remember this so well because he said, "If Herbie called and wanted to meet me for an important opportunity, I would on the first available flight to SF, hamburger in hand, waiting for him at the airport."

This is also the same place where Chalfant compared Herbie's and Journey's relationship to "Mutiny on the Bounty". There are several different perspectives on that. The one that the questioner had was that Herbie ran such a tight ship that it forced the band to rebel against him to get their freedom. Mine was that Herbie is THE reason the band had such a high level of success, that his experience and knowledge guided the band to the huge success they had. But, the band thought they could do it on their own and lessened his role during ROR and fired him for TBF, and never could achieve the same success they had with Herbie.

For whatever light I can shed here...

It's my understanding that Herbie was always a fan of Kevin's. I don't know what their personal relationship (if any) was, but I do know that when I was allegedly offered the lead singer of Journey job, Kevin was fronting his own Journey tribute band in the midwest, although the name escapes me now... The management company for Frontiers at the time was out of New Jersey, and my manager called me during this weird limbo between JSS and Arnel and told me that Kevin had reached out to him to see if they may be a fit to work together since I was leaving the tribute band gig and apparently Frontiers would no longer be a thing. My manager tells me that Kevin told him he was personally managed by Herbie Herbert, the original manager of Journey, and he would be happy to arrange a meeting between himself and Herbie and my manager to discuss further. I don't know if that meeting ever took place. Of course I returned to Frontiers and we maintained the same management company until we closed up shop in 2012.

As far as the rift between Perry and Herbert and the rest of the band around the time of Raised on Radio, both Jon Cain and Neal Schon told me that they were grateful to Perry for standing up to Herbie when he was demanding an equal share of the band. Apparently after the Frontiers album/tour, Herbie wanted to be an equal band member or partner in the business. I have NO idea the actual business deal or terms of what was being discussed, only that Schon and Cain were grateful to Perry and Lee Phillips for going toe-to-toe with Herbie and ensuring that he did not get an equal share in the ownership of the band.

Since that was told to me, I always assumed that was the source of Herbie's anger toward Perry, although we all know there were other difficulties with Perry that I'm sure contributed over time.

[Memorex]

Jeremey Hunsicker: You probably know this already, but you are quoted in the book.

JSS is also mentioned and quoted in the book.

Jeremey and JSS do come off well as people. Not that I ever thought differently.

There are a couple of mentions of JSS possibly not being a great fit as far as range is concerned, but that's the only negative said about him. There are positive things said about his talent too.

Schon mentions Jeremey being scary similar to Perry singing wise.

Interesting, this post is the first I've heard of this book and I was definitely never interviewed for the book. What context is my quote being used, is it referenced from another interview I had done in the past?

Quick look, but it mentions quotes given in other interviews.

[Journey/Survivor]

Jeremey Hunsicker: You probably know this already, but you are quoted in the book.

JSS is also mentioned and quoted in the book.

Jeremey and JSS do come off well as people. Not that I ever thought differently.

There are a couple of mentions of JSS possibly not being a great fit as far as range is concerned, but that's the only negative said about him. There are positive things said about his talent too.

Schon mentions Jeremey being scary similar to Perry singing wise.

Interesting, this post is the first I've heard of this book and I was definitely never interviewed for the book. What context is my quote being used, is it referenced from another interview I had done in the past?

Yeah, like Memorex mentioned, it's made up of past interviews that you gave. The Roanoke Times and Houma Today.

Pages 281 and 283 are the main mentions of you in the book.

[The_Noble_Cause]

It's my understanding that Herbie was always a fan of Kevin's. I don't know what their personal relationship (if any) was, but I do know that when I was allegedly offered the lead singer of Journey job, Kevin was fronting his own Journey tribute band in the midwest, although the name escapes me now...

Probably "Kevin Chalfant's Journey Experience." These days I think he mostly does the Journey stuff as part of a package deal - Voices Of Rock Radio - also featuring Elefante from Kansas etc.

As far as the rift between Perry and Herbert and the rest of the band around the time of Raised on Radio, both Jon Cain and Neal Schon told me that they were grateful to Perry for standing up to Herbie when he was demanding an equal share of the band. Apparently after the Frontiers album/tour, Herbie wanted to be an equal band member or partner in the business.

Honestly, I am surprised Herbie didn't have a majority share already. As an outsider, I think he was owed at least an equal share - maybe more.

[Aaron]

I have the castles burning interview somewhere.

Quoting a paragraph in the book:

There were brief hints that Storm front man Kevin Chalfant might be brought into a reformulated Journey lineup including Rolie, Neal Schon, and Jonathan Cain. That concerned Herbert, who appreciated Chalfant's talent but felt "He was too much like Perry," Herbert told Matthew Carty. "He would have been a problem child just like Perry was."

[Arkansas]

I have the castles burning interview somewhere.

http://web.archive.org/web/200206010820 ... t/mrcarty/

The site is a little slow. May take a minute to load.

later~

[Aaron]

Cheers!

I have the castles burning interview somewhere.

http://web.archive.org/web/200206010820 ... t/mrcarty/

The site is a little slow. May take a minute to load.

later~

[livin2do]

If you just want the text (or what's left of it) use https://matukaaz.blogspot.com/

Wow. I haven't been here in years. The place hasn't changed! Good to see you all.

I was contacted by the author, Nick DeRiso, back in October before he released Worlds Apart. He wanted permission to reprint portions of my Castles Burning interview with Herbie Herbert. That was an easy yes - just the idea that something I worked on would be part of the band's story was never anything I could have expected.

Nick proceeded to give me glimpses into how the book was being put together, how the interview was being used - and how I was being credited (which I honestly think was more than I deserved). We've emailed back and forth quite a bit about Journey, and we have very similar viewpoints about the band I think. He has a LOT of Spotify playlists featuring Journey.

It is quite possible I have finally met a bigger Journey fan than me LOL. I have read the Kindle version, and bought the soft cover for my shelf. Nick says he's sending me a copy of the hard cover when it is pressed and I remain patiently waiting - as I'm sure he is also!

In case you weren't aware, I also recently got a copy of this book https://www.amazon.com/Livin-Just-Find- ... 1538187019 . The author was known as JRNYDV back in the day, and he runs the Journey-zone site. Just started reading it, but you can judge for yourselves.

[Monker]

Wow, JrnyDv, that is a someone I have not heard anything about in a long time...

Just for a bit of history....

JRNYDV goes back to the early 2000's on Journey's official forum, BackTalk. He and a group of online friends were going to meet at a Journey concert. That's all good and fine, great even. At that time, Journey had a pretty strict policy of NO photography or video at concerts...and they enforced it. It was complained about a LOT. At a concert I saw the guy next to me had his film confiscated by security. So, JrnyDv and his group started talking about how they were going to get cameras by security. The guys were saying they would stick a camera down the front of their pants cuz their crotch was never searched. The girls were saying they would put it in their purse or down the front of their shirt. I believe there was even talk of printing and laminating "PRESS" badges so they would not get cameras taken away during the concert...and all of this was posted on Journey's official forum.

Then a couple weeks prior to the concert, the threads were deleted on the forum and they were all warned. I do not know what was said but I know it was big blow up and "scandal".

On the night of the concert, the group shows up. Security had all of their names so they pulled them aside and did full body pat downs on all of them, including the crotch of all the guys and the chests of all the girls and searched their purses. So, of course, they were all pissed and said it ruined their night, and they felt violated, blah, blah, blah...shortly after, the JourneyZone site started and he wrote a huge article about the experience...it's probably still there.

IMO, they are both to blame. The group should have NEVER planned such a thing...especially on Journey's own site. Even if it was all a joke, it was STUPID. Journey over stepped their bounds by having a bunch of male security goons act like that. But, whatever...I didn't get involved cuz I thought the entire thing was stupid on all sides.

Then Journey Zone. JrnyDv hired a few writers. Among them was Towanda who had a history that goes back even further to the mid-1990's and Skylorde's old Journey forum. She was honestly a bit crazy and would end up in HUGE arguments with me and others and she would go out of control. So, she used the Journey Zone platform to write articles demeaning Journey representatives, like Allen Craft (AlienC), saying how Journey was out of control bad...and then lump her arguments with me and others from the old forum into it. At one point she even accused Journey of hacking into her computer and crashing it, calling them Borg hackers, or whatever....just crazy crazy stuff. So, I submitted an op-ed to defend myself and speak some sanity into it. JrnyDv edited it down to a fraction of what I wrote, which pissed me off so I posted the full text here but it was deleted when Andrew updated the software. Several others wrote in, including SkyLord and maybe Allen...but I think his site and "JrnyDv" in general became a bit blacklisted because they had lost so much integrity by this point. Journey Zone stopped being updated and JrnyDv sorta disappeared.

Journey Zone also tried to become a bit of an archive for old articles and interviews. There were also a few interviews by him or his writers. I can't remember who, maybe Gregg Rolie and Steve Smith. This was probably the only useful thing his site provided. I can understand why this book has so many sources listed now.

[The_Noble_Cause]

If this is JrnyDv, and it sounds like it is, then Neal has gone after him quite a few times on Twitter. Neal has gone so far as accusing him of working for Chicago (whatever that means - probably an allusion to Cain).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Hamilton_Golland

[Marabelle]

Then who was Meanie!

[Monker]

Then who was Meanie!

Meanie goes back even further to the Journey mailing list back in the early 1990's. He would really go after the Perryheads when they would go over the edge. They ended up saying how "mean" he was so he started going by MrMean, Meanie, etc. But, he also contributed a lot. He got a copy of the FTLOSM CD weeks before it was released and posted a review on the mailing list.

On Skylord's forum, I would go after the Perryheads logically without all the personal attacks and Meanie would act more like Deano and completely insult them and haze them. Then there was also Barbie who I think knew Meanie, or they at least met. The three of us would almost tag team people at times. People like Towanda hated it because they could not worship Perry and insult Augeri and Journey without it being challenged....very strongly. In her case she was made to look VERY stupid, many times.

You have to understand how Augeri and that version of Journey was treated by Perryheads. They hated Augeri just for replacing Perry, and Neal for continuing Journey. They considered Journey Perry's band and it was impossible to continue without him. Don't crack the stone, and all that. They called Augeri, and Chalfant, Perry clones, which, IMO is VERY far from true. It was a never ending constant insult towards Augeri and Journey. They got all their hate thrown back at them, and sometimes were made to look completely stupid.

The funny thing is that there were some Perry fans that I got along with really well. I still talk to a couple and are good friends. What I argued with was this worship thing that Perryheads did that put him at this Journey God like status...Journey was NOT all about Steve Perry. I would argue about that even today. But, nowadays, people put Neal to that level and Neal does it himself...and Journey is not all about Neal, at least it should not be. When Journey becomes all about one person's vision, it always turns out mediocre crap (ROR, Freedom).

[jrnyman28]

For a time my love of Journey grew exponentially while “defending” Augeri/Journey from the “Perryheads”. I learned so much about the band, the fan base, even internet etiquette. It got bloody, and I didn’t really join in until VH1. But I found that logic and consideration seemed to really pain the extreme fans!

[JourneyHard]

I am starting to think the Herbie Herbert Documentary will never be released.

[Marabelle]

Thanks much Monker!

[Monker]

Thanks much Monker!

Yeah, but it definitely shows my age. Some of that stuff happened over 30yrs ago. Someone on the Journey mailing said I am as old as an Ent....and that was around 2000 or so. Truer now than back then.