Cain vs. Schon (again)

[ebake02]

I really hoped that this was over. Sigh.

That kinda spending does seem like an addiction. Just like booze/drugs/different women every night….

It would make more sense to me if this was about wanting to make more money to pay debts. But needing $10k/night hotels?

Neal's social media seems to suggest that he's been on a guitar buying binge for awhile so that's not helping the situation either.

[The_Noble_Cause]

UPDATE
https://news.bloomberglaw.com/securitie ... ware-court

Journey Band Members’ Dispute Fast-Tracked in Delaware Court (1)
Jennifer Kay

A Delaware judge said Wednesday that he’d try to resolve a deadlock over Journey’s tour management before the classic rock band embarks on the Japanese leg of its tour this autumn.

It would be preferable, however, if longtime Journey keyboardist Jonathan Cain and the band’s sole remaining co-founder, lead guitarist Neal Schon, could resolve their dispute without intervention from the Delaware Chancery Court, Vice Chancellor J. Travis Laster said in a telephone hearing.

In the meantime, Laster said he would appoint a discovery facilitator to work with Cain’s and Schon’s legal teams ahead of a hearing scheduled the first week of September.

Cain alleges Schon’s lavish spending has sown discord within the band. According to Cain’s petition for a custodian, Schon blew a $1,500-per-night hotel fee cap, maxed out an American Express card with a $1 million limit, unilaterally chartered private jets, hired a close friend unnecessarily, and blocked efforts to pay the band’s debts.

Cain seeks a court-ordered custodian to act as a tie-breaking third board member at Freedom 2020 Inc., a business he founded with Schon in 2021 to oversee Journey’s tour-related assets. Each musician owns half the company and serves on its two-seat board. The current deadlock interferes with day-to-day operations and makes it impossible to make significant management or financial decisions, Cain said in his petition.

Deadlocks aren’t unusual in solvent corporations, Laster said, pushing the musicians’ attorneys to help their clients find a resolution together before the next hearing. “I hope you’re going to talk to them about the law and realize there’s a relatively narrow set of outcomes for this type of proceeding,” Laster said.

Schon co-founded Journey in 1972. Cain joined the band in 1980, replacing original keyboardist Gregg Rolie.

Sidney Liebesman of Fox Rothschild, representing Cain, said compiling discovery for the court shouldn’t affect the band’s tour, which is making its way around the US before heading overseas in mid-October. But the management situation regarding the tour’s expenses and budgets, the hiring and firing of crew members, and travel accommodations is “in crisis” and exacerbated by “unhinged” emails between the musicians, he said.

“The band seriously runs a risk of losing its business manager, losing its accounting firm, because this dysfunction is as bad as I’m trying to express to the court,” Liebesman said.

The band this week canceled the United Kingdom and Ireland leg of their tour, which was set to occur after the Japan shows.

Schon denies there’s been any mismanagement or dysfunction, and some disputes described in Cain’s petition already have been resolved, said Jack Yoskowitz of Seward & Kissel, representing the guitarist.

Journey’s performances are “the only thing there’s no dispute about,” he said. “They go on stage.”

Laster said while he’s familiar with the band and their “fantastic repertoire,” he doesn’t know what happens behind the scenes to organize a tour “for an epic rock band like Journey,” and there were some aspects of the bandmates’ argument that shouldn’t involve him.

“I’m not qualified to decide who the drummer ought to be,” he said.

“That’s not what we envision at all,” Liebesman replied, adding that’s one issue already resolved.

Schon also is represented by Prickett Jones & Elliott.

The case is Cain v. Schon, Del. Ch., No. 2024-0791, hearing 8/7/24.

(Updates with additional comments from court hearing.)

[Eric]

Uhhh what?

“I’m not qualified to decide who the drummer ought to be,” he said.

“That’s not what we envision at all,” Liebesman replied, adding that’s one issue already resolved.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Uhhh what?

“I’m not qualified to decide who the drummer ought to be,” he said.

“That’s not what we envision at all,” Liebesman replied, adding that’s one issue already resolved.

More details in a new article from Associated Press.

The dispute also has even spilled over to creative differences, including Cain’s disagreement with Schon’s selection of a substitute drummer for a Toronto performance last week, and whether Cain should play rhythm guitar during performances of the 1978 song “Wheel in the Sky.”

https://apnews.com/article/music-rock-j ... 62620cf8ad

[RumTumJM]

Uhhh what?

“I’m not qualified to decide who the drummer ought to be,” he said.

“That’s not what we envision at all,” Liebesman replied, adding that’s one issue already resolved.

More details in a new article from Associated Press.

The dispute also has even spilled over to creative differences, including Cain’s disagreement with Schon’s selection of a substitute drummer for a Toronto performance last week, and whether Cain should play rhythm guitar during performances of the 1978 song “Wheel in the Sky.”

https://apnews.com/article/music-rock-j ... 62620cf8ad

I wonder who Cain would have liked to fill in for Deen at the Toronto show. - I mean, it's not unheard of to have the drum tech step up & play, when the drummer calls out last minute. Those guys usually know the drum routine, top to bottom! (I think KISS did it once or twice...during the makeup era, even...and Kansas has had Ehart's drum tech playing with the band for months now, as Phil recovers from a heart attack.)

In the end, I think the band BADLY needs to take a year or 2 off! - Let Arnel rest (hopefully), and let Schon & Cain spend some time apart! At the same time, the public will start to "miss the band" again, since they've played just about everywhere since COVID! - BUT, considering that all of this revolves around Neal's spending habits...aka the stuff he needs to earn money for...my guess is that they either keep on touring or Cain & Schon just end it/break up! (Neal would probably love to just get rid of Cain. But, he can't since Jon's also a stakeholder in the company!)

[The_Noble_Cause]

I wonder who Cain would have liked to fill in for Deen at the Toronto show. - I mean, it's not unheard of to have the drum tech step up & play, when the drummer calls out last minute. Those guys usually know the drum routine, top to bottom! (I think KISS did it once or twice...during the makeup era, even...and Kansas has had Ehart's drum tech playing with the band for months now, as Phil recovers from a heart attack.)

Maybe Jon wanted to use his bro Tommy "Mugs" Cain or a drum machine ROR style? Maybe Jon thought they just cancel the performance? We'll never know.

Here's the concert in full. Sounds good.

https://youtu.be/QC6KSFjefLs?si=FYxJMnmb11UHsKqW

[Monker]

Maybe Jon wanted to use his bro Tommy "Mugs" Cain or a drum machine ROR style? Maybe Jon thought they just cancel the performance? We'll never know.

Here's the concert in full. Sounds good.

https://youtu.be/QC6KSFjefLs?si=FYxJMnmb11UHsKqW

I was going to say the same thing about Mugs. That is very possible. But, Neal is obviously on a bit of a power trip and ignoring is ignoring Jonathan in decisions. This is an example of Neal taking charge and making a decision without involving Jonathan. IMO, Jonathan could be tired of this, tired of him using his "power" to over spend when Jonathan knows the accounting and sees it as a huge problem, and he wants to have his voice heard in any band decisions...and currently it isn't. That is what these lawsuits seem to be about. It may not necessarily be about him having someone else in mind, but the fact his opinion was not even asked for.

[Onestepper]

Maybe Jon wanted to use his bro Tommy "Mugs" Cain or a drum machine ROR style? Maybe Jon thought they just cancel the performance? We'll never know.

Here's the concert in full. Sounds good.

https://youtu.be/QC6KSFjefLs?si=FYxJMnmb11UHsKqW

I was going to say the same thing about Mugs. That is very possible. But, Neal is obviously on a bit of a power trip and ignoring is ignoring Jonathan in decisions. This is an example of Neal taking charge and making a decision without involving Jonathan. IMO, Jonathan could be tired of this, tired of him using his "power" to over spend when Jonathan knows the accounting and sees it as a huge problem, and he wants to have his voice heard in any band decisions...and currently it isn't. That is what these lawsuits seem to be about. It may not necessarily be about him having someone else in mind, but the fact his opinion was not even asked for.

Yeah, if they knew it was just for one or two shows, bringing in someone else doesn't make a lot of sense, and it would actually cost them more, which completely defeats Jonathan's point about being better with finances. These two are just playing power trips now. It's whomever can gain whatever advantage they can while it lasts. The judge has to be just shaking his head in disgust. Or at least he should be.

[Art Vandelay]

I wonder who Cain would have liked to fill in for Deen at the Toronto show. - I mean, it's not unheard of to have the drum tech step up & play, when the drummer calls out last minute. Those guys usually know the drum routine, top to bottom! (I think KISS did it once or twice...during the makeup era, even...and Kansas has had Ehart's drum tech playing with the band for months now, as Phil recovers from a heart attack.)

Maybe Jon wanted to use his bro Tommy "Mugs" Cain or a drum machine ROR style? Maybe Jon thought they just cancel the performance? We'll never know.

Here's the concert in full. Sounds good.

https://youtu.be/QC6KSFjefLs?si=FYxJMnmb11UHsKqW

Depends on how late in the game Deen had to pull out. You use whatever resources are available. His drum tech was most likely the only option. Also, a drum machine was used for the ROR recording sessions to blueprint the parts ahead of time. No drum machines were used on the tour.

[The_Noble_Cause]

I wonder who Cain would have liked to fill in for Deen at the Toronto show. - I mean, it's not unheard of to have the drum tech step up & play, when the drummer calls out last minute. Those guys usually know the drum routine, top to bottom! (I think KISS did it once or twice...during the makeup era, even...and Kansas has had Ehart's drum tech playing with the band for months now, as Phil recovers from a heart attack.)

Maybe Jon wanted to use his bro Tommy "Mugs" Cain or a drum machine ROR style? Maybe Jon thought they just cancel the performance? We'll never know.

Here's the concert in full. Sounds good.

https://youtu.be/QC6KSFjefLs?si=FYxJMnmb11UHsKqW

Depends on how late in the game Deen had to pull out. You use whatever resources are available. His drum tech was most likely the only option. Also, a drum machine was used for the ROR recording sessions to blueprint the parts ahead of time. No drum machines were used on the tour.

Sorry if I wasn't clear. Both ideas, Mugs Cain and/or a drum machine, were an attempt at humor.

[Art Vandelay]

I kinda figured so and I should have known better....shame on me for not picking up on that TNC lol

[Monker]

But, he can't since Jon's also a stakeholder in the company!)

technically, it is possible. Last I looked, Nightmare owns the Journey trademark and licenses it out, in this case to Freedom LLC. So, Neal could form a new LLC that does not include Jonathan and then convince Nightmare to license the Journey name to the new LLC. A sort of coup, as Neal would say. But, that is assuming:

Nightmare still owns the Journey trademark after Neal's lawsuit against them, Ross and Steve Smith.

There are a lot of doubts Nightmare would do this if Perry, Gregg Rolie, Steve Smith, Ross Valory, and Jonathan are still stockholders in Nightmare, and in Smith and Valory's case are executives. So, good luck convincing that group to side with Neal.

So, possible, but very unlikely.

[jrnyman28]

I really cannot understand how there would be any issue with Deen’s drum tech filling in….he’s done it several previous times without issue or comment. (Although they might lose out on some vocals, and since Deen handles occasional lead vox)

[ebake02]

I really cannot understand how there would be any issue with Deen’s drum tech filling in….he’s done it several previous times without issue or comment. (Although they might lose out on some vocals, and since Deen handles occasional lead vox)

Deen's tech filled in for him way back on the first Leppard tour in 2006 when I saw them in Buffalo.

[JourneyHard]

Jon and Neal must really hate Herbie Herbert because when he died they didn't mention him at all during concerts. All they had to do was dedicate a song to Herbie during a concert tour. It could have been any song. But not a word about the man who founded the band. Without Herbie, there is no Journey.

Doesn't Neal make enough money from the tour? He shouldn't be allowed to touch the Journey business money. That is for paying expenses. That is not for Neal's spending. Neal gets paid. He should use that money. If that isn't enough, he should get Bad English back together and tour with them. Wait. He burned that bridge.

[Eric]

https://x.com/nealschonmusic/status/182 ... _62qvrTpfw

[Eric]

Jon and Neal must really hate Herbie Herbert because when he died they didn't mention him at all during concerts. All they had to do was dedicate a song to Herbie during a concert tour. It could have been any song. But not a word about the man who founded the band. Without Herbie, there is no Journey.

Doesn't Neal make enough money from the tour? He shouldn't be allowed to touch the Journey business money. That is for paying expenses. That is not for Neal's spending. Neal gets paid. He should use that money. If that isn't enough, he should get Bad English back together and tour with them. Wait. He burned that bridge.

I agree that more of a concert in memoriam would have been nice, but they’ve mentioned Herbie frequently.

Bad English not being together is not a Schon thing.

[kmjrr]

https://x.com/nealschonmusic/status/182 ... _62qvrTpfw

Neal needs to check his Grammer before he presses send.

Again, financial records are either going to prove the allegations or not. A supposed agreement on a private Zoom call with Jon and his wife is not.

[Monker]

Jon and Neal must really hate Herbie Herbert because when he died they didn't mention him at all during concerts. All they had to do was dedicate a song to Herbie during a concert tour. It could have been any song. But not a word about the man who founded the band. Without Herbie, there is no Journey.

Doesn't Neal make enough money from the tour? He shouldn't be allowed to touch the Journey business money. That is for paying expenses. That is not for Neal's spending. Neal gets paid. He should use that money. If that isn't enough, he should get Bad English back together and tour with them. Wait. He burned that bridge.

I agree that more of a concert in memoriam would have been nice, but they’ve mentioned Herbie frequently.

I don't remember if they were touring when Herbie died. Neal could have said something one time in concert and dedicated a song to him...and that could have been it. Doing it every show seems like too much. I'm surprised the bands that Herbie influenced did not get together for a Herbie concert...that would have been the most appropriate thing and it would have been beyond just Journey.

Bad English not being together is not a Schon thing.

I don't get this reference anyway...with Neal and Jonathan being in both BE And Journey, it would not have worked out as an "extra income" thing. The truth is that is what JTT was...and he DID blow that one.

[The_Noble_Cause]

I don't remember if they were touring when Herbie died. Neal could have said something one time in concert and dedicated a song to him...and that could have been it.

From what I recall they played a private gig and dedicated one song - maybe Lights - to him. I remember because it was Todd's first gig. Initially, when I saw some blonde dude slappin the bass, I thought it was Jeff Coffey from Chicago.

[The_Noble_Cause]

https://x.com/nealschonmusic/status/182 ... _62qvrTpfw

Neal needs to check his Grammer before he presses send.

Again, financial records are either going to prove the allegations or not. A supposed agreement on a private Zoom call with Jon and his wife is not.

I give Neal credit for addressing the matter and taking the high road. Let's see what happens.

[Eric]

I'm surprised the bands that Herbie influenced did not get together for a Herbie concert...that would have been the most appropriate thing and it would have been beyond just Journey.

I’d take a plane ride for that.

[The_Noble_Cause]

FB comment from someone named Van Grant.

"All I know is at the hotel 6 months ago, everyone else took small transport vans together. They were relaxed and calm. Neal had two bodyguards on top of the two guards Journey already has. Of which we were told be careful they run the ship. Neal was the star of the parade and had an Escalade for him and the wife. You could see a very clear financial divide between Neal and the rest of them. So I don't buy what Neal is trying to sell here. It was very clear from everyone around it's the Neal Show. "

[The_Noble_Cause]

New social media response from Neal. Countersuit drops at 5pm today. The revisionist history (Neal hired Jon? Lol) and the use of titles (founder, lead, manager, president, secretary, co-treasurer, etc.) speaks to some really deep rooted insecurities.

"I find Cain's slanderous allegations are very disruptive and damaging with intent to try to harm me , the band , crew , promoter, and the door. Truly disturbing to hear of Mr. Cains filing in the middle of Journey's very successful Stadium Tour with our good friends Def Leppard. Journey has a great life, and I thank the fans for that.

Jonathan Cain has created a very hostile work environment for not only myself, but other band members and crew-members. The allegations are false, and I intend to prove it in court. My answers to Mr. Cain's false allegations and filing will be submitted by 5 PM ET Monday for all to read. My focus is , as it always has been , and will be , the music and fan since when I began Journey in 1972. 51 years now for me , I will continue to always do what’s right for Journey in protecting and making good decisions for the band , crew, music and fans, All journey band members you see on the stage with me I personally hired, including Jonathan Cain. I will let the music do the talking."

- Neal Schon Journey Founder Lead Guitarist of Journey - Manager - President - Secretary - managing member and co-Treasurer.

[Onestepper]

FB comment from someone named Van Grant.

"All I know is at the hotel 6 months ago, everyone else took small transport vans together. They were relaxed and calm. Neal had two bodyguards on top of the two guards Journey already has. Of which we were told be careful they run the ship. Neal was the star of the parade and had an Escalade for him and the wife. You could see a very clear financial divide between Neal and the rest of them. So I don't buy what Neal is trying to sell here. It was very clear from everyone around it's the Neal Show. "

I just will go to my grave believing that LadyM is driving a good percentage of this. I think she has gotten in his head that it's his band, and the others are just background players. If you look at their social media (which she manages), 90% of the pics and videos are of Neal. She purposely holds the camera to focus on him and make him look bigger than life. The others are just bit players in the Neal show. And I think it all bleeds over into how things go on when they are off stage. All you have to do is look at her history in reality tv and of always wanting to be treated like she is some princess. I'm not saying he's not responsible as well. But I think she pushes him for this type of behavior because she actually believes he deserves it.

[The_Noble_Cause]

I just will go to my grave believing that LadyM is driving a good percentage of this. I think she has gotten in his head that it's his band, and the others are just background players. If you look at their social media (which she manages), 90% of the pics and videos are of Neal. She purposely holds the camera to focus on him and make him look bigger than life. The others are just bit players in the Neal show. And I think it all bleeds over into how things go on when they are off stage. All you have to do is look at her history in reality tv and of always wanting to be treated like she is some princess. I'm not saying he's not responsible as well. But I think she pushes him for this type of behavior because she actually believes he deserves it.

I would like to partially blame it on a lack of real management, but even under Azoff we saw trouble ahead. Anyone remember the Eclipse Resonate music video basically starring Lady M? Even then - with real management - Journey was being used for her own ends/means.

[JourneyHard]

I am NOT a lawyer, but I think the judge needs to put some neutral party in charge of Journey's finances and make sure everybody gets paid. Neal cannot be allowed to dip his hands into the cookie jar whenever he wants. By the way, I thought Neal said, "I will never work with Jon Waite again." Or something like that.

If Neal wants to make more money, he can have Journey tour solo and do five shows a night. The setlist: "Separate Ways, Only the Young, Faithfully, Who's Crying Now, Open Arms, LTS, Don't Stop Believin, Any Way You Want It." Neal can have a gazillion guitar solos and then trade out LTS with Wheel in the Sky, Lights, Be Good to Yourself, and Stone in Love for the other four shows.

[kmjrr]

Neal and Jon apparently settled last time with the creation of Freedom 2022. Since the spending problem hasn't been resolved, I would expect that Jon won't agree to anything that will only lead to him having to take action in another year or two.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Neal and Jon apparently settled last time with the creation of Freedom 2022.

This is not accurate. Freedom was formed after the Ross and Smith "coup" debacle. The legal infighting started much later.

[Monker]

Neal and Jon apparently settled last time with the creation of Freedom 2022.

This is not accurate. Freedom was formed after the Ross and Smith "coup" debacle. The legal infighting started much later.

I would consider that infighting since Smith/Valory were both part of the band when Nightmare made their trademark complaint against JTT...then Neal decided to sue Nightmare, fire Smith/Valory and include them, too.

Also, Neal mentioned in one of his recent posts that he purchased the Journey trademark. Did he? Or, is he talking about the individual songs? I'd like to see proof that Nightmare does not own the Journey name...I just don't want to spend the time to look it up. Just because Neal says it, does not mean I am going to believe it.