"journey" press conference this week in Sweden

[Jana]

Re-hash, re-tread, and regurgitated arguments...it's so past tense. I'm not saying let it go but man, it's so repetitive. Arnel is golden where he needs to be. To the guys in the band, and to the people that support him AND Journey.

Let's see what he's allowed to contribute. What irks me is that there are so many that say he has much to do to surpass SP. That's almost a certain impossibility due to the music climate that dominates today and the monumental work that was accomplished in the past. But having said that, AP and Journey still have a lot to say musically. The recording industry is littered with acts that have done things so monumentally large that whatever came next, although excellent, didn't replicate the success. Ultimately, we as fans judge them. We either buy their records or go to their shows. Doing either is a vote that says you still want to support them. I know I do.

Wow, the best post I've seen in a long time. Every bit of it true. AP with Journey will never surpass their heyday with Perry with their great body of work at this stage of the game. But just like with Arrival and Revelation, they still have music to contribute and Journey is still going strong. I just enjoy the hell out of them with Arnel, just really great musicians on stage, and I hope the next album is great. But if not, I will still enjoy them. They don't have to prove a thing to me. They already have. They're a band alive and well kicking ass on stage after 30 years.

[donnaplease]

As I explained to Portland, and now to you, Arnel is on record as being a better human being than Perry. No different from people constantly fellating Perry as both singer and human being. Arnel's critics should limit themselves purely to perceived vocal flaws. As a person, he's been far more generous, considerate, and appreciative than Perry.

On record? What the heck does that mean? There's a record for niceness? We have had just a little over a year to get to know Arnel's personality. We've had over 30 to dissect SP's every move. I hardly think you can compare the two equally. However, conceding the rumors of SP's buttholedness (like that word?) and Arnel's friendliness with regard to their time in the band, we also need to consider that they are coming from 2 completely different worlds. Arnel was essentially a hired singer, whereas SP held much of the responsibility for the success of the band. I think everyone agrees (and he's admitted) that he made mistakes with how things were handled, and hindsight is always 20/20. Plus, as we also know, there were 'chemical' contributions to consider with regard to how they reacted to each other. Alcohol and drugs do change a personality. Perhaps, if anything, we should compare Arnel's personality today with SP's today, and how he relates to the people he is working with now. I haven't heard anyone say anything negative about him while working with him recently.

Just a thought.

[Gideon]

As I explained to Portland, and now to you, Arnel is on record as being a better human being than Perry. No different from people constantly fellating Perry as both singer and human being. Arnel's critics should limit themselves purely to perceived vocal flaws. As a person, he's been far more generous, considerate, and appreciative than Perry.

On record? What the heck does that mean? There's a record for niceness? We have had just a little over a year to get to know Arnel's personality. We've had over 30 to dissect SP's every move. I hardly think you can compare the two equally. However, conceding the rumors of SP's buttholedness (like that word?) and Arnel's friendliness with regard to their time in the band, we also need to consider that they are coming from 2 completely different worlds. Arnel was essentially a hired singer, whereas SP held much of the responsibility for the success of the band. I think everyone agrees (and he's admitted) that he made mistakes with how things were handled, and hindsight is always 20/20. Plus, as we also know, there were 'chemical' contributions to consider with regard to how they reacted to each other. Alcohol and drugs do change a personality. Perhaps, if anything, we should compare Arnel's personality today with SP's today, and how he relates to the people he is working with now. I haven't heard anyone say anything negative about him while working with him recently.

Just a thought.

Rumors?

[donnaplease]

As I explained to Portland, and now to you, Arnel is on record as being a better human being than Perry. No different from people constantly fellating Perry as both singer and human being. Arnel's critics should limit themselves purely to perceived vocal flaws. As a person, he's been far more generous, considerate, and appreciative than Perry.

On record? What the heck does that mean? There's a record for niceness? We have had just a little over a year to get to know Arnel's personality. We've had over 30 to dissect SP's every move. I hardly think you can compare the two equally. However, conceding the rumors of SP's buttholedness (like that word?) and Arnel's friendliness with regard to their time in the band, we also need to consider that they are coming from 2 completely different worlds. Arnel was essentially a hired singer, whereas SP held much of the responsibility for the success of the band. I think everyone agrees (and he's admitted) that he made mistakes with how things were handled, and hindsight is always 20/20. Plus, as we also know, there were 'chemical' contributions to consider with regard to how they reacted to each other. Alcohol and drugs do change a personality. Perhaps, if anything, we should compare Arnel's personality today with SP's today, and how he relates to the people he is working with now. I haven't heard anyone say anything negative about him while working with him recently.

Just a thought.

Rumors?

Yes, Gideon. Rumors. There is no hard and fast definition of a butthole, it's all subjective. But I did concede that he was one at times. What about the rest of my post?

Edit to add: IDK if you've heard Stu's recounting of an encounter he had with SP when he was a young boy. SP was a prick to him. However, about a year and a half ago Stu shared a different opinion following something very kind that SP did to someone we all know here. Just another example of what I'm referring to in my original post.

[Rick]

As I explained to Portland, and now to you, Arnel is on record as being a better human being than Perry. No different from people constantly fellating Perry as both singer and human being. Arnel's critics should limit themselves purely to perceived vocal flaws. As a person, he's been far more generous, considerate, and appreciative than Perry.

On record? What the heck does that mean? There's a record for niceness? We have had just a little over a year to get to know Arnel's personality. We've had over 30 to dissect SP's every move. I hardly think you can compare the two equally. However, conceding the rumors of SP's buttholedness (like that word?) and Arnel's friendliness with regard to their time in the band, we also need to consider that they are coming from 2 completely different worlds. Arnel was essentially a hired singer, whereas SP held much of the responsibility for the success of the band. I think everyone agrees (and he's admitted) that he made mistakes with how things were handled, and hindsight is always 20/20. Plus, as we also know, there were 'chemical' contributions to consider with regard to how they reacted to each other. Alcohol and drugs do change a personality. Perhaps, if anything, we should compare Arnel's personality today with SP's today, and how he relates to the people he is working with now. I haven't heard anyone say anything negative about him while working with him recently.

Just a thought.

Rumors?

Yes, Gideon. Rumors. There is no hard and fast definition of a butthole, it's all subjective. But I did concede that he was one at times. What about the rest of my post?

And where do these rumors come from? HH? Well, he pretty much trashed everyone in the band at one time or another, except for Rolie and maybe Smitty. SP stepped up and admitted his faults. Where are the other guys admissions? No one can tell me they don't have things they should admit fault for as well.

[JasonD]

the lyrics that you chose actually are a bit straight forward.
i was pointing out words used in lyrics that sometimes doesnt exactly mean what they mean. (or something like that. )

well, yeah, what the hell is a midnight sun anyway?

I always thought it had to do with Alaska. (Don't laugh.) Don't they have like six months of daylight & six month of darkness there? Hence, you could be driving into the midnight sun if you're driving through Alaska.

[donnaplease]

As I explained to Portland, and now to you, Arnel is on record as being a better human being than Perry. No different from people constantly fellating Perry as both singer and human being. Arnel's critics should limit themselves purely to perceived vocal flaws. As a person, he's been far more generous, considerate, and appreciative than Perry.

On record? What the heck does that mean? There's a record for niceness? We have had just a little over a year to get to know Arnel's personality. We've had over 30 to dissect SP's every move. I hardly think you can compare the two equally. However, conceding the rumors of SP's buttholedness (like that word?) and Arnel's friendliness with regard to their time in the band, we also need to consider that they are coming from 2 completely different worlds. Arnel was essentially a hired singer, whereas SP held much of the responsibility for the success of the band. I think everyone agrees (and he's admitted) that he made mistakes with how things were handled, and hindsight is always 20/20. Plus, as we also know, there were 'chemical' contributions to consider with regard to how they reacted to each other. Alcohol and drugs do change a personality. Perhaps, if anything, we should compare Arnel's personality today with SP's today, and how he relates to the people he is working with now. I haven't heard anyone say anything negative about him while working with him recently.

Just a thought.

Rumors?

Yes, Gideon. Rumors. There is no hard and fast definition of a butthole, it's all subjective. But I did concede that he was one at times. What about the rest of my post?

And where do these rumors come from? HH? Well, he pretty much trashed everyone in the band at one time or another, except for Rolie and maybe Smitty. SP stepped up and admitted his faults. Where are the other guys admissions? No one can tell me they don't have things they should admit fault for as well.

Dayum, Rick. I haven't agreed with you in a long time (or you with me). Feels good.

[portland]

As I explained to Portland, and now to you, Arnel is on record as being a better human being than Perry. No different from people constantly fellating Perry as both singer and human being. Arnel's critics should limit themselves purely to perceived vocal flaws. As a person, he's been far more generous, considerate, and appreciative than Perry.

On record? What the heck does that mean? There's a record for niceness? We have had just a little over a year to get to know Arnel's personality. We've had over 30 to dissect SP's every move. I hardly think you can compare the two equally. However, conceding the rumors of SP's buttholedness (like that word?) and Arnel's friendliness with regard to their time in the band, we also need to consider that they are coming from 2 completely different worlds. Arnel was essentially a hired singer, whereas SP held much of the responsibility for the success of the band. I think everyone agrees (and he's admitted) that he made mistakes with how things were handled, and hindsight is always 20/20. Plus, as we also know, there were 'chemical' contributions to consider with regard to how they reacted to each other. Alcohol and drugs do change a personality. Perhaps, if anything, we should compare Arnel's personality today with SP's today, and how he relates to the people he is working with now. I haven't heard anyone say anything negative about him while working with him recently.

Just a thought.

There is just no use in arguing with Gideon....it's just not how I choose to spend my time anymore....as far as being part of the as he puts it Straight Jacket Brigade...well I don't deny the fact that SP was an asshole at some points during his tenure...but I think he had his reasons.

But we all have our opinions and the next CD will say alot about the current line up of Journey.....but I still don't think we will really know how much AP has to do with the writing and composition of the new songs.

[donnaplease]

As I explained to Portland, and now to you, Arnel is on record as being a better human being than Perry. No different from people constantly fellating Perry as both singer and human being. Arnel's critics should limit themselves purely to perceived vocal flaws. As a person, he's been far more generous, considerate, and appreciative than Perry.

On record? What the heck does that mean? There's a record for niceness? We have had just a little over a year to get to know Arnel's personality. We've had over 30 to dissect SP's every move. I hardly think you can compare the two equally. However, conceding the rumors of SP's buttholedness (like that word?) and Arnel's friendliness with regard to their time in the band, we also need to consider that they are coming from 2 completely different worlds. Arnel was essentially a hired singer, whereas SP held much of the responsibility for the success of the band. I think everyone agrees (and he's admitted) that he made mistakes with how things were handled, and hindsight is always 20/20. Plus, as we also know, there were 'chemical' contributions to consider with regard to how they reacted to each other. Alcohol and drugs do change a personality. Perhaps, if anything, we should compare Arnel's personality today with SP's today, and how he relates to the people he is working with now. I haven't heard anyone say anything negative about him while working with him recently.

Just a thought.

There is just no use in arguing with Gideon....it's just not how I choose to spend my time anymore....as far as being part of the as he puts it Straight Jacket Brigade...well I don't deny the fact that SP was an asshole at some points during his tenure...but I think he had his reasons.

But we all have our opinions and the next CD will say alot about the current line up of Journey.....but I still don't think we will really know how much AP has to do with the writing and composition of the new songs.

Hey, sometimes we have to be A-holes. Some of my co-workers tell me that the thing that drives them crazy about me is also the thing that makes me great at the work I do. I'm anal and dissect everything in the attempt to make it the best it can be, whereas some people are just content to be average. Come to think of it, that's kinda the same things that are said about SP... yet another reason that he's my guy!!!

[portland]

As I explained to Portland, and now to you, Arnel is on record as being a better human being than Perry. No different from people constantly fellating Perry as both singer and human being. Arnel's critics should limit themselves purely to perceived vocal flaws. As a person, he's been far more generous, considerate, and appreciative than Perry.

On record? What the heck does that mean? There's a record for niceness? We have had just a little over a year to get to know Arnel's personality. We've had over 30 to dissect SP's every move. I hardly think you can compare the two equally. However, conceding the rumors of SP's buttholedness (like that word?) and Arnel's friendliness with regard to their time in the band, we also need to consider that they are coming from 2 completely different worlds. Arnel was essentially a hired singer, whereas SP held much of the responsibility for the success of the band. I think everyone agrees (and he's admitted) that he made mistakes with how things were handled, and hindsight is always 20/20. Plus, as we also know, there were 'chemical' contributions to consider with regard to how they reacted to each other. Alcohol and drugs do change a personality. Perhaps, if anything, we should compare Arnel's personality today with SP's today, and how he relates to the people he is working with now. I haven't heard anyone say anything negative about him while working with him recently.

Just a thought.

There is just no use in arguing with Gideon....it's just not how I choose to spend my time anymore....as far as being part of the as he puts it Straight Jacket Brigade...well I don't deny the fact that SP was an asshole at some points during his tenure...but I think he had his reasons.

But we all have our opinions and the next CD will say alot about the current line up of Journey.....but I still don't think we will really know how much AP has to do with the writing and composition of the new songs.

Hey, sometimes we have to be A-holes. Some of my co-workers tell me that the thing that drives them crazy about me is also the thing that makes me great at the work I do. I'm anal and dissect everything in the attempt to make it the best it can be, whereas some people are just content to be average. Come to think of it, that's kinda the same things that are said about SP... yet another reason that he's my guy!!!

Yeah well around here asshole needs to be your middle name! I have come a long way from my first post.....I am a little more tough skinned...but don't want to be told I need a straight jacket...you know what I mean?

[donnaplease]

Hey, sometimes we have to be A-holes. Some of my co-workers tell me that the thing that drives them crazy about me is also the thing that makes me great at the work I do. I'm anal and dissect everything in the attempt to make it the best it can be, whereas some people are just content to be average. Come to think of it, that's kinda the same things that are said about SP... yet another reason that he's my guy!!!

Yeah well around here asshole needs to be your middle name! I have come a long way from my first post.....I am a little more tough skinned...but don't want to be told I need a straight jacket...you know what I mean?

Honey, if that's the worst thing that's been said to you so far, you're doing great! Trust me, I've heard it all (and said a few mean things in my time too - some deserved, some probably not so much). But I do know what you mean.

[Jana]

As I explained to Portland, and now to you, Arnel is on record as being a better human being than Perry. No different from people constantly fellating Perry as both singer and human being. Arnel's critics should limit themselves purely to perceived vocal flaws. As a person, he's been far more generous, considerate, and appreciative than Perry.

On record? What the heck does that mean? There's a record for niceness? We have had just a little over a year to get to know Arnel's personality. We've had over 30 to dissect SP's every move. I hardly think you can compare the two equally. However, conceding the rumors of SP's buttholedness (like that word?) and Arnel's friendliness with regard to their time in the band, we also need to consider that they are coming from 2 completely different worlds. Arnel was essentially a hired singer, whereas SP held much of the responsibility for the success of the band. I think everyone agrees (and he's admitted) that he made mistakes with how things were handled, and hindsight is always 20/20. Plus, as we also know, there were 'chemical' contributions to consider with regard to how they reacted to each other. Alcohol and drugs do change a personality. Perhaps, if anything, we should compare Arnel's personality today with SP's today, and how he relates to the people he is working with now. I haven't heard anyone say anything negative about him while working with him recently.

Just a thought.

There is just no use in arguing with Gideon....it's just not how I choose to spend my time anymore....as far as being part of the as he puts it Straight Jacket Brigade...well I don't deny the fact that SP was an asshole at some points during his tenure...but I think he had his reasons.

But we all have our opinions and the next CD will say alot about the current line up of Journey.....but I still don't think we will really know how much AP has to do with the writing and composition of the new songs.

To you it will say a lot. To the fans who support the current line-up of Journey, we will still support them, just like the fans did after the Generations album and Red 13, which were not good. According to you, you don't even like Arnel's voice, so what do you really care? Good songs on a new album wouldn't matter if you don't care for the singer.

[Don]

Re-hash, re-tread, and regurgitated arguments...it's so past tense. I'm not saying let it go but man, it's so repetitive. Arnel is golden where he needs to be. To the guys in the band, and to the people that support him AND Journey.

Let's see what he's allowed to contribute. What irks me is that there are so many that say he has much to do to surpass SP. That's almost a certain impossibility due to the music climate that dominates today and the monumental work that was accomplished in the past. But having said that, AP and Journey still have a lot to say musically. The recording industry is littered with acts that have done things so monumentally large that whatever came next, although excellent, didn't replicate the success. Ultimately, we as fans judge them. We either buy their records or go to their shows. Doing either is a vote that says you still want to support them. I know I do.

I have to say that Journey has more casual fans than a lot of other bands and this is why they can't pull a Bon Jovi or U2, selling out 100 shows in a row or stadiums in 24 hours. Despite this perceived change in the musical climate, Groups like AC-DC can sell One million copies in one week because of their diehard fan base. Iron Maiden is invisible to the public, yet can sell out two nights in a row at a 20k venue because of their diehard fans.
You would think with DSB going to the top of the digital charts every year for the last 5 years, Journey would be living 1983 all over again but it just doesn't happen. It's like eating popcorn. You'walk away feeling full, yet an hour later your hungry again and look for something else to eat. I think it's a combination of changing singers and the critics actually being right about this band, they just don't have that one album that grabs you and makes you a fan for life. Individual songs have their moment but Where's their equivalent of Back in Black or Slippery when wet or the Joshua tree?
When your biggest hit is a Greatest hits album, that points to a overwelming casual fan base. The Eagles have the same issue but they wrote so many hits, they can over come it, along with their abilty to put their egos aside for a minute and actually tour together.

In the final analysis though, we can say they're doing great and that's all that matters.

[Onestepper]

I swear to God some of you people would argue over the color of a black and white photo. It really gets old, and quite honestly has made this board more and more difficult to visit on a regular basis.

Grow the fuck up.

[donnaplease]

I swear to God some of you people would argue over the color of a black and white photo. It really gets old, and quite honestly has made this board more and more difficult to visit on a regular basis.

Grow the fuck up.

Who's arguing? I dun see no stinkin arguing...

[Gideon]

Yes, Gideon. Rumors. There is no hard and fast definition of a butthole, it's all subjective. But I did concede that he was one at times. What about the rest of my post?

Sorry, I was more than a little surprised at the word "rumor"... which implies a lack of substantiation. Furthermore, it reveals a glaring double standard.

If I recall, you are one of the many people here who condemn Jonathan Cain and Neal Schon for being assholes, yes? Where is your proof? You, actually, have nothing special in your arsenal. Perhaps you've met them? Herbie Herbert enjoyed a relationship with Steve Perry, Jonathan Cain, and Neal Schon that spanned decades. I'd say his opinion is more accurate than, say, Rockindeano's. Now I know we all love Deano around here, but let's face the facts: many are quick to accept his testimony as proof that Cain and Schon are assholes. Is he any less biased than Herbie? Does he somehow know them better? Or is it because he condemns someone other than Perry that we accept his opinions?

Of course, you may say: "Well we have proof! Actions!" And you'd likely cite the firing of JSS and the mistreatment of Steve Augeri. And I would accept that. But we have proof of Perry's indiscretions: Gregg Rolie's departure from the band, the shitcanning of Steve Smith and Ross Valory, the egomania that drove ROR, the deceit where Perry claimed to be burned out and yet attempted to put a solo album out in less than two years rather than return to the band (only to have karma bitchslap aforementioned album into oblivion), a second attempt at a solo album and the subsequent tour, the entire TBF fiasco: the firing of Herbie Herbert -- the man whom Perry singlehandedly praises for giving him a career -- and the blatant narcissism of trying to keep the band from moving on without him.

So in the end, what do you have?

Well, if you're a logical person, and you believe that Cain and Schon are assholes, then you simply have no choice but to accept the fact that Perry himself was also an asshole of greater proportions. We have testimony from Herbert, the architect behind Journey's career, a man who knew Steve Perry, Jonathan Cain, and Neal Schon to a greater extent than anyone short of Cyndy and Lora. And we also have evidence in his actions.

It really isn't up for debate.

There is just no use in arguing with Gideon....

Yet comments like these suggest a deep-rooted desire to do so. Speak your mind, Portland.

And where do these rumors come from? HH? Well, he pretty much trashed everyone in the band at one time or another, except for Rolie and maybe Smitty.

This is an interesting role to take. As I recall, Herbie seems to have a reputation for candid opinions, regardless of their popularity. You seem to assume that simply because he thinks poorly of Steve Perry as a person that he must be biased. Or deceitful. Historians around the world condemn the likes of Adolf Hitler and Joseph Stalin... yet that doesn't mean they're wrong. In fact, one could make an argument that Herbie might feel that way because... Perry gave him a reason to?

Given that Herbie has been, as Dan calls him, "a straightshooter" -- someone who praises the abilities of Cain, Perry, and Schon -- seems to imply a certain level of objectivity.

Now, I could be wrong of course. And Herbie may be biased, absolutely. But he's also, as I said, the man who helped craft Journey's career and who gave Perry a job. I'd say he knew him better than you do. Or I do.

SP stepped up and admitted his faults. Where are the other guys admissions? No one can tell me they don't have things they should admit fault for as well.

And no one has suggested that at all. But Cain and Schon have been and continue to be whipped soundly by everyone (including me) for their errors. Why do most stay their hand, though, when the subject changes to Perry?

[Gideon]

I swear to God some of you people would argue over the color of a black and white photo. It really gets old, and quite honestly has made this board more and more difficult to visit on a regular basis.

Grow the fuck up.

It's a debate. It's the exchange of opinions over things that aren't necessarily black and white. It's the communication of perspectives, one of the very liberties we enjoy on the internet and in the world. One of the things, I would argue (yes, that ugly word) that makes us human.

Best of all, it's nothing personal. Donnaplease and I are quite fine (at least on my end).

Why are you getting bent out of shape over something in which you aren't involved? Best of all, this isn't like we're doing it outside of the computer, in public, forcing you to listen.

Translation: chill.

[portland]

As I explained to Portland, and now to you, Arnel is on record as being a better human being than Perry. No different from people constantly fellating Perry as both singer and human being. Arnel's critics should limit themselves purely to perceived vocal flaws. As a person, he's been far more generous, considerate, and appreciative than Perry.

On record? What the heck does that mean? There's a record for niceness? We have had just a little over a year to get to know Arnel's personality. We've had over 30 to dissect SP's every move. I hardly think you can compare the two equally. However, conceding the rumors of SP's buttholedness (like that word?) and Arnel's friendliness with regard to their time in the band, we also need to consider that they are coming from 2 completely different worlds. Arnel was essentially a hired singer, whereas SP held much of the responsibility for the success of the band. I think everyone agrees (and he's admitted) that he made mistakes with how things were handled, and hindsight is always 20/20. Plus, as we also know, there were 'chemical' contributions to consider with regard to how they reacted to each other. Alcohol and drugs do change a personality. Perhaps, if anything, we should compare Arnel's personality today with SP's today, and how he relates to the people he is working with now. I haven't heard anyone say anything negative about him while working with him recently.

Just a thought.

There is just no use in arguing with Gideon....it's just not how I choose to spend my time anymore....as far as being part of the as he puts it Straight Jacket Brigade...well I don't deny the fact that SP was an asshole at some points during his tenure...but I think he had his reasons.

But we all have our opinions and the next CD will say alot about the current line up of Journey.....but I still don't think we will really know how much AP has to do with the writing and composition of the new songs.

To you it will say a lot. To the fans who support the current line-up of Journey, we will still support them, just like the fans did after the Generations album and Red 13, which were not good. According to you, you don't even like Arnel's voice, so what do you really care? Good songs on a new album wouldn't matter if you don't care for the singer.

But it will say by the sales how successful this new Journey is.....they won't have two discs to count only one....I believe somewhere here I was told that someone was crapping Platium....just sayin.

[Gideon]

But it will say by the sales how successful this new Journey is.....they won't have two discs to count only one....I believe somewhere here I was told that someone was crapping Platium....just sayin.

'

Yes, yes, we know what you're "just sayin'." You seem to have this crazy idea that sales reflect talent or skill. No, sales reflect popularity. No one ever claimed that Journey was as popular as before.

The Rolling Stones have outsold Journey several times over, so by your logic, Mick Jagger is better than Steve Perry.

I win.

[Jana]

But it will say by the sales how successful this new Journey is.....they won't have two discs to count only one....I believe somewhere here I was told that someone was crapping Platium....just sayin.

'

Yes, yes, we know what you're "just sayin'." You seem to have this crazy idea that sales reflect talent or skill. No, sales reflect popularity. No one ever claimed that Journey was as popular as before.

The Rolling Stones have outsold Journey several times over, so by your logic, Mick Jagger is better than Steve Perry.

I win.

As most know, it's a touring band. They're popular. At this stage of the game, record sales are never going to be huge. If they do gold, it will be considered successful and even better if more. Plus if they're smart they ought to have a DVD with the CD. I don't know why the need to compare to Journey of its heyday. Journey didn't move a lot of CDs during the Augeri tenure, but I still considered them talented and doing what they love still going after all those years.

[portland]

But it will say by the sales how successful this new Journey is.....they won't have two discs to count only one....I believe somewhere here I was told that someone was crapping Platium....just sayin.

'

Yes, yes, we know what you're "just sayin'." You seem to have this crazy idea that sales reflect talent or skill. No, sales reflect popularity. No one ever claimed that Journey was as popular as before.

The Rolling Stones have outsold Journey several times over, so by your logic, Mick Jagger is better than Steve Perry.

I win.

I was answering a post from Jana, I believe....and by the way I would have to play the game with you in order for you to win

[Don]

So instead of the weekly countdown to Platinum we had during Revelation's release, shall we limit this next release to a countdown to Gold, just to be on the safe side?

[portland]

So instead of the weekly countdown to Platinum we had during Revelation's release, shall we limit this next release to a countdown to Gold, just to be on the safe side?

Who knows.....they change their mind around here alot.....

[Don]

Trivia - Journey only has one gold album currently, Greatest Hits Live. Everything else is platinum or less than gold. Even the Essential Journey album is Platinum, which surprised me.

[Jana]

So instead of the weekly countdown to Platinum we had during Revelation's release, shall we limit this next release to a countdown to Gold, just to be on the safe side?

I was answering for me. I don't know what is considered a success for them. I would love for it to be a big hit, but it's not going to change anything for me. If I like the album, then it's a success to me. Just like my TFF ELAHE, didn't sell a lot out when it was released, not even Gold I don't think, but I absolutely loved the album.

I like the band in it's present incarnation. They're a touring band, and I will continue to see them. Just like U2's latest album was okay. Doesn't change a thing for me. I still love them. I still love Journey.

PEACE.

[Don]

So instead of the weekly countdown to Platinum we had during Revelation's release, shall we limit this next release to a countdown to Gold, just to be on the safe side?

I was answering for me. I don't know what is considered a success for them. I would love for it to be a big hit, but it's not going to change anything for me. If I like the album, then it's a success to me. Just like my TFF ELAHE, didn't sell a lot out when it was released, not even Gold I don't think, but I absolutely loved the album.

I like the band in it's present incarnation. They're a touring band, and I will continue to see them. Just like U2's latest album was okay. Doesn't change a thing for me. I still love them. I still love Journey.

PEACE.

I think Gold would be a success for them also.
Journey has always been a great touring band, They visited Japan and Europe with Steve Augeri also He just didn't have a platinum album during his tenure, although he did have an A/C hit like Pineda.
But that fact was lauded as the big difference betwen his success and Arnel's. If the next album doesn't hit Platinum, how can it not be considered relevant when the importance of sales figures and obtaining Platinum status has already been stressed by the new fans as a measurement of achievment for this new lineup?

PEACE!

[Jana]

So instead of the weekly countdown to Platinum we had during Revelation's release, shall we limit this next release to a countdown to Gold, just to be on the safe side?

I was answering for me. I don't know what is considered a success for them. I would love for it to be a big hit, but it's not going to change anything for me. If I like the album, then it's a success to me. Just like my TFF ELAHE, didn't sell a lot out when it was released, not even Gold I don't think, but I absolutely loved the album.

I like the band in it's present incarnation. They're a touring band, and I will continue to see them. Just like U2's latest album was okay. Doesn't change a thing for me. I still love them. I still love Journey.

PEACE.

I think Gold would be a success for them also.
Journey has always been a great touring band, They visited Japan and Europe with Steve Augeri also He just didn't have a platinum album during his tenure, although he did have an A/C hit like Pineda.
But that fact was lauded as the big difference betwen his success and Arnel's. If the next album doesn't hit Platinum, how can it not be considered relevant when the importance of sales figures and obtaining Platinum status has already been stressed by the new fans as a measurement of achievment for this new lineup?

PEACE!

Because, GB, as you know, when something is happening, like the platinum sales for Revelation you brag on it. Just like if it had never been discussed as being a possibility, and started out with slower sales and finally hit Gold, that would have been bragged on. It there were no 20, 25, 30 thousand people shows in the U.S. last year, but only 10,000 people shows across the board, that would have been bragged on as a big deal b/c that was the expectation.

For the Perry fans who have said Perry will have a Platinum album, if it goes only Gold they will change their expectation and still consider it a success. You have said it won't even make Gold. If it doesn't, the fans who expected it much higher will adjust their expectations and still consider it a success b/c they love the album. You brag on what's given you. The Revelation (whether anyone agrees with the counting of 2 discs or not) had the expectation and countdown of reaching Platinum so it was a source of pride as it did.

[Don]

So instead of the weekly countdown to Platinum we had during Revelation's release, shall we limit this next release to a countdown to Gold, just to be on the safe side?

I was answering for me. I don't know what is considered a success for them. I would love for it to be a big hit, but it's not going to change anything for me. If I like the album, then it's a success to me. Just like my TFF ELAHE, didn't sell a lot out when it was released, not even Gold I don't think, but I absolutely loved the album.

I like the band in it's present incarnation. They're a touring band, and I will continue to see them. Just like U2's latest album was okay. Doesn't change a thing for me. I still love them. I still love Journey.

PEACE.

I think Gold would be a success for them also.
Journey has always been a great touring band, They visited Japan and Europe with Steve Augeri also He just didn't have a platinum album during his tenure, although he did have an A/C hit like Pineda.
But that fact was lauded as the big difference betwen his success and Arnel's. If the next album doesn't hit Platinum, how can it not be considered relevant when the importance of sales figures and obtaining Platinum status has already been stressed by the new fans as a measurement of achievment for this new lineup?

PEACE!

Because, GB, as you know, when something is happening, like the platinum sales for Revelation you brag on it. Just like if it had never been discussed as being a possibility, and started out with slower sales and finally hit Gold, that would have been bragged on. It there were no 20, 25, 30 thousand people shows in the U.S. last year, but only 10,000 people shows across the board, that would have been bragged on as a big deal b/c that was the expectation.

For the Perry fans who have said Perry will have a Platinum album, if it goes only Gold they will change their expectation and still consider it a success. You have said it won't even make Gold. If it doesn't, the fans who expected it much higher will adjust their expectations and still consider it a success b/c they love the album. You brag on what's given you. The Revelation (whether anyone agrees with the counting of 2 discs or not) had the expectation and countdown of reaching Platinum so it was a source of pride as it did.

How true this is. But hopefully, once we see how a much of a difference there is when you remove a major selling factor like Walmart's three disc set for 11 bucks, people can better appreciate Steve Augeri's limited success with Arrival.

[Gideon]

I was answering a post from Jana, I believe....

Oh, I didn't know we lived in some universe where the person to whom we are speaking changes simple truths, facts, and basic logic.

and by the way I would have to play the game with you in order for you to win

You do play. Not playing would involve you remaining silent. You're entitled to play. But sales mean shit insofar as talent and ability.

[donnaplease]

Yes, Gideon. Rumors. There is no hard and fast definition of a butthole, it's all subjective. But I did concede that he was one at times. What about the rest of my post?

Sorry, I was more than a little surprised at the word "rumor"... which implies a lack of substantiation. Furthermore, it reveals a glaring double standard.

If I recall, you are one of the many people here who condemn Jonathan Cain and Neal Schon for being assholes, yes? Where is your proof? You, actually, have nothing special in your arsenal. Perhaps you've met them? Herbie Herbert enjoyed a relationship with Steve Perry, Jonathan Cain, and Neal Schon that spanned decades. I'd say his opinion is more accurate than, say, Rockindeano's. Now I know we all love Deano around here, but let's face the facts: many are quick to accept his testimony as proof that Cain and Schon are assholes. Is he any less biased than Herbie? Does he somehow know them better? Or is it because he condemns someone other than Perry that we accept his opinions?

Of course, you may say: "Well we have proof! Actions!" And you'd likely cite the firing of JSS and the mistreatment of Steve Augeri. And I would accept that. But we have proof of Perry's indiscretions: Gregg Rolie's departure from the band, the shitcanning of Steve Smith and Ross Valory, the egomania that drove ROR, the deceit where Perry claimed to be burned out and yet attempted to put a solo album out in less than two years rather than return to the band (only to have karma bitchslap aforementioned album into oblivion), a second attempt at a solo album and the subsequent tour, the entire TBF fiasco: the firing of Herbie Herbert -- the man whom Perry singlehandedly praises for giving him a career -- and the blatant narcissism of trying to keep the band from moving on without him.

So in the end, what do you have?

Well, if you're a logical person, and you believe that Cain and Schon are assholes, then you simply have no choice but to accept the fact that Perry himself was also an asshole of greater proportions. We have testimony from Herbert, the architect behind Journey's career, a man who knew Steve Perry, Jonathan Cain, and Neal Schon to a greater extent than anyone short of Cyndy and Lora. And we also have evidence in his actions.

It really isn't up for debate.

There is just no use in arguing with Gideon....

Yet comments like these suggest a deep-rooted desire to do so. Speak your mind, Portland.

And where do these rumors come from? HH? Well, he pretty much trashed everyone in the band at one time or another, except for Rolie and maybe Smitty.

This is an interesting role to take. As I recall, Herbie seems to have a reputation for candid opinions, regardless of their popularity. You seem to assume that simply because he thinks poorly of Steve Perry as a person that he must be biased. Or deceitful. Historians around the world condemn the likes of Adolf Hitler and Joseph Stalin... yet that doesn't mean they're wrong. In fact, one could make an argument that Herbie might feel that way because... Perry gave him a reason to?

Given that Herbie has been, as Dan calls him, "a straightshooter" -- someone who praises the abilities of Cain, Perry, and Schon -- seems to imply a certain level of objectivity.

Now, I could be wrong of course. And Herbie may be biased, absolutely. But he's also, as I said, the man who helped craft Journey's career and who gave Perry a job. I'd say he knew him better than you do. Or I do.

SP stepped up and admitted his faults. Where are the other guys admissions? No one can tell me they don't have things they should admit fault for as well.

And no one has suggested that at all. But Cain and Schon have been and continue to be whipped soundly by everyone (including me) for their errors. Why do most stay their hand, though, when the subject changes to Perry?

O-M-G. You totally made my point. OK, lemme try this out here. You say something to the effect of 'it's on record that Perry is the bigger asshole'. To which I asked 'what record is that?'. Since you can't put someone in a box and define them as an asshole, I said that there are rumors that SP has been one. I then went further to concede that at some times in his life, even he admitted that he did some things he shouldn't have done. Whether someone is an asshole or not is totally subjective. HH is a perfect example... some call him a 'straight shooter', some think he's an asshole. I think he's both.

Once again we're down to semantics. How can you substantiate an opinion... You state your viewpoint, and it's up to the listener to decide whether or not too give it merit. I actually have met Friga and Fro, and to be honest found them to be the least friendly of the entire band. In fact, the second time I was involved in a M&G, Neal couldn't be bothered to show up. Ross and Deen have been very friendly and open each time I've talked with them, and of course I know JSS the best. So I do have something to base my opinions on with regard to the fab four (minus a singer).

I am a logical person, but I don't have to accept anything that you say, just because you say it. The fact that Neal Schon has been married and divorced what, FOUR times now, certainly lays proof to the claim of what kind of man he is. Just please don't tell me what to think and criticize me for not agreeing with you. If you are truly a teenage like you say, I would submit to you that as a 40 year old woman with children older than you that I have earned the right - through life experience - to be allowed my own point of view. You weren't even around when much of this crap was going on, how in the world can you claim to know who the guilty parties are?

I'm not mad at you, Gideon, and I don't mean to sound condescending. I don't base my opinions on what Deano says, I base them on how I perceive things that I've learned. Just because you don't share the same perceptions doesn't make mine wrong.

Have a lovely evening, ya little shit!!!