Eclipse Billboard - Flop

[Gideon]

Which tracks do you dig off Gens? For me, it's FITH, Place In Your Heart, Never Too Late, Beyond the Clouds, and Out of Harm's way.

Toss in 'Every Generation'. I know people will bitch about Cain's voice, but on the record his vocals are serviceable and that song is a lyrical masterpiece for Journey IMHO.

I haven't gotten much into Ritual yet.

It reminds me of 'Wildest Dream', which was one of Revelation's strongest and catchiest tracks. The lyrics are half-assed, but Arnel is fantastic and the little acoustic/electric guitar jam around the 2:40 mark is a great eclectic touch.

Someone is solid, but parts of it just sound a bit off to me. One of the chord changes in the chorus prevents it from soaring like it should, the synths are a bit cheesy at the start, and I really don't dig the "someeeeeoneeee lovessss youuuu" chant in the post-chorus.

I agree entirely and referenced this in vivid detail on my review thread.

[Gideon]

TBF is worth the price alone just for Smith's drumming and Neal's great tone and tasteful licks.

The fact that Perry was no longer a superhuman singer, I think, enabled the rest of the band to flex their muscles on TBF to compensate for his faltering range. Which is why it's my favorite Journey album bar none.
That said, TBF is the only album that Steve Smith did with Journey that ever had me believing he was some sort of percussion heavyweight. I'm no drummer, but his technique on previous albums for the most part seemed restrained and simplistic. He references this in the Behind the Music Director's Cut by saying before the 1996 reunion, he was still in his musical apprenticeship in technique.
But on TBF, he was godly.

[The_Noble_Cause]

TBF is worth the price alone just for Smith's drumming and Neal's great tone and tasteful licks.

The fact that Perry was no longer a superhuman singer, I think, enabled the rest of the band to flex their muscles on TBF to compensate for his faltering range. Which is why it's my favorite Journey album bar none.
That said, TBF is the only album that Steve Smith did with Journey that ever had me believing he was some sort of percussion heavyweight. I'm no drummer, but his technique on previous albums for the most part seemed restrained and simplistic. He references this in the Behind the Music Director's Cut by saying before the 1996 reunion, he was still in his musical apprenticeship in technique.
But on TBF, he was godly.

Agreed. Sounds awful, but I was never all that impressed with Smitty until TBF. Deen turns in a killer performance on Eclipse, but wish he played with a little more subtlety.

[strangegrey]

Anything is Possible is a great fucking song.........until it turns to shite with Schon's solo section and the minor-key crapola fest it becomes. This is the producer's fault. plain and simple. A good producer (and not a drunk idiot or a no-name fuckwad eating out of Fro's lap) would have told the band, 'you've got a great song, lets edit out the bullshit at the end that ruins the song, and we've got a hit' instead, due to nealpoleon's insistence, likely, it stayed...and the song was fucking ruined. what a waste!

Any radio version of AIP would likely remove the solo outro. The "drunk idiot" prolly did tell Schon to cut it. Schon was the one pushing to make the songs un-radio friendly. Not sure why any fan would push the band to be more commercial or TOP 40 friendly. We've seen that before. You end up with bland singles like "All the Way", and the guitar taking a serious backseat.

The solution is somewhere in the middle. The outro of AIP is so far from the original song, that it's unsettling. This issue plagues almost every song on the record. It's poor production and misdirected songwriting.

say what you will, but I'm convinced that Arrival is going to sell better than this piece of elephant dung anyway....so your argument on "all the way" is likely going to be steeped in shaky footing, anyway. We shall see....

[The_Noble_Cause]

The solution is somewhere in the middle. The outro of AIP is so far from the original song, that it's unsettling. This issue plagues almost every song on the record. It's poor production and misdirected songwriting.

say what you will, but I'm convinced that Arrival is going to sell better than this piece of elephant dung anyway....so your argument on "all the way" is likely going to be steeped in shaky footing, anyway. We shall see....

Dude, are you really defending "All the Way" over "Anything is Possible"? I'd rather have a Journey album that mixes it up and fails, then the same ole, same ole. Many bands use tempo shifts and melody changes. Journey is still very, very, reserved in this regard. It's barely progressive at all.

[conversationpc]

The solution is somewhere in the middle. The outro of AIP is so far from the original song, that it's unsettling. This issue plagues almost every song on the record. It's poor production and misdirected songwriting.

say what you will, but I'm convinced that Arrival is going to sell better than this piece of elephant dung anyway....so your argument on "all the way" is likely going to be steeped in shaky footing, anyway. We shall see....

Dude, are you really defending "All the Way" over "Anything is Possible"? I'd rather have a Journey album that mixes it up and fails, then the same ole, same ole. Many bands use tempo shifts and melody changes. Journey is still very, very, reserved in this regard. It's barely progressive at all.

No contest...AIP is FAR better than AtW.

[Rick]

The solution is somewhere in the middle. The outro of AIP is so far from the original song, that it's unsettling. This issue plagues almost every song on the record. It's poor production and misdirected songwriting.

say what you will, but I'm convinced that Arrival is going to sell better than this piece of elephant dung anyway....so your argument on "all the way" is likely going to be steeped in shaky footing, anyway. We shall see....

Dude, are you really defending "All the Way" over "Anything is Possible"? I'd rather have a Journey album that mixes it up and fails, then the same ole, same ole. Many bands use tempo shifts and melody changes. Journey is still very, very, reserved in this regard. It's barely progressive at all.

They could have put out an Escape level album again and Frank would hate it. That's one jaded motherfucker, where Journey is concerned. He's one amongst many.

[Gideon]

They could have put out an Escape level album again and Frank would hate it. That's one jaded motherfucker, where Journey is concerned. He's one amongst many.

I can't speak for Frank, but I do think it's retarded beyond words to judge an product based on one's personal feelings towards the person making it (and that goes both ways).

[Rick]

They could have put out an Escape level album again and Frank would hate it. That's one jaded motherfucker, where Journey is concerned. He's one amongst many.

I can't speak for Frank, but I do think it's retarded beyond words to judge an product based on one's personal feelings towards the person making it (and that goes both ways).

People let the shit get in the way, and that's most unfortunate. It blinds people.

[The_Noble_Cause]

They could have put out an Escape level album again and Frank would hate it. That's one jaded motherfucker, where Journey is concerned. He's one amongst many.

I think Frank's being honest when he says he thinks the songs suck. Only some (like AIP) have strong Journey-type choruses. Others, like Edge of the Moment and Human Feel, are a little slight and it's more about the overall feeling and mood of the song. Andrew initially downplayed any comparisons to Red13, but I think "The Time" is a fair reference point. If you liked that guitar-driven, less catchy track, you will prolly find alot to like on this cd. Cain has beefed up the songs with alot of synth noises to make them seem more melodic than they are. But a few, (like "Someone", "Ritual", or "To Whom it May Concern"), are as melodic as anything the band has put out.

[Gideon]

That's one thing that's impressed me about Deano, Beshad, and Ed.
While their personal opinion of the band's character hasn't changed, both seemed to really give Eclipse a shot and found things they liked and disliked about it.
Otherwise, honestly, I believe if you look hard enough, you'll always find what you're looking for.

Ex: A diehard, unrepentant Loon will likely on one level or another seek to dislike Journey's Perryless endeavors.

[Gideon]

I think Frank's being honest when he says he thinks the songs suck. Only some (like AIP) have strong Journey-type choruses. Others, like Edge of the Moment and Human Feel, are a little slight and it's more about the overall feeling and mood of the song. Andrew initially downplayed any comparisons to Red13, but I think "The Time" is a fair reference point. If you liked that guitar-driven, less catchy track, you will prolly find alot to like on this cd. Cain has beefed up the songs with alot of synth noises to make them seem more melodic than they are. But a few, (like "Someone", "Ritual", or "To Whom it May Concern"), are as melodic as anything the band has put out.

If anything, I think Eclipse didn't live up to its hype as completely radical to the typical Journey sound: Many of the tracks strongly harken back to previous Journey songs and efforts.
For what it's worth, I completely oppose the notion that Journey needs to stick to a specific formula. Obviously there are elements that make Journey what it is (a powerful tenor, soaring guitar work, high harmonies, etc.) but that doesn't mean it all needs to be constructed the same way.
'Resonate' is the standout track on Eclipse for me because all of that shit is there in abundance with enough tweaks and deviations to give it its own identity.

[portland]

That's one thing that's impressed me about Deano, Beshad, and Ed.
While their personal opinion of the band's character hasn't changed, both seemed to really give Eclipse a shot and found things they liked and disliked about it.
Otherwise, honestly, I believe if you look hard enough, you'll always find what you're looking for.

Ex: A diehard, unrepentant Loon will likely on one level or another seek to dislike Journey's Perryless endeavors.

You know what that is bullshit.

[Rick]

They could have put out an Escape level album again and Frank would hate it. That's one jaded motherfucker, where Journey is concerned. He's one amongst many.

I think Frank's being honest when he says he thinks the songs suck. Only some (like AIP) have strong Journey-type choruses. Others, like Edge of the Moment and Human Feel, are a little slight and it's more about the overall feeling and mood of the song. Andrew initially downplayed any comparisons to Red13, but I think "The Time" is a fair reference point. If you liked that guitar-driven, less catchy track, you will prolly find alot to like on this cd. Cain has beefed up the songs with alot of synth noises to make them seem more melodic than they are. But a few, (like "Someone", "Ritual", or "To Whom it May Concern"), are as melodic as anything the band has put out.

I'm sure he is being honest. He's been on record for hating this band for a long time. Certainly, it's his right to do so, but you can't listen to this record with an open mind and say it sucks. It most certainly doesn't.

[Gideon]

You know what that is bullshit.

It's not.
Unless you're confusing "diehard, unrepentant Loon" with "someone who really likes Steve Perry's voice or prefers Journey w/Perry." There is, I believe, a critical difference.

[portland]

You know what that is bullshit.

It's not.
Unless you're confusing "diehard, unrepentant Loon" with "someone who really likes Steve Perry's voice or prefers Journey w/Perry." There is, I believe, a critical difference.

Well you tell me the difference....go on...I am all ears???

[Rick]

You know what that is bullshit.

It's not.
Unless you're confusing "diehard, unrepentant Loon" with "someone who really likes Steve Perry's voice or prefers Journey w/Perry." There is, I believe, a critical difference.

Butting your head against the wall, Giddy. If Perry sang these songs with a lesser ability, they would be brilliant.

[Gideon]

Well you tell me the difference....go on...I am all ears???

And a very big mouth, I'm sure.

Let me ask you this before I answer: Do you consider Dan a Loon?

[portland]

Well you tell me the difference....go on...I am all ears???

And a very big mouth, I'm sure.

Let me ask you this before I answer: Do you consider Dan a Loon?

You know I might.

[Gideon]

Butting your head against the wall, Giddy.

Doesn't that technically make me a butthead?

If Perry sang these songs with a lesser ability, they would be brilliant.

I definitely don't subscribe to Dan's belief that Perry circa TBF sucks, but Arnel definitely sings circles around him since FTLOSM.
Nonetheless, I dare say you're correct.

[portland]

Well you tell me the difference....go on...I am all ears???

And a very big mouth, I'm sure.

Let me ask you this before I answer: Do you consider Dan a Loon?

\



my mouth is no bigger than yours....trust me.

[Gideon]

You know I might.

Given his reception amongst avowed Loons, I'm not sure he meets all the requirements or standards for Loonacy.
Dan, like most of us here (including myself), have a healthy respect for Perry's voice and his abilities as an artist. The reason I neither consider him or myself to be a Loon is because we put Journey before Perry. For example, I prefer Journey's catalogue to Perry's solo works. I believe Journey as a unit is substantially superior than its components. Basically, I'm not a Loon because I didn't stop being a fan of Journey when Perry left.
To me, there is a critical difference.

[portland]

Butting your head against the wall, Giddy.

Doesn't that technically make me a butthead?

If Perry sang these songs with a lesser ability, they would be brilliant.

I definitely don't subscribe to Dan's belief that Perry circa TBF sucks, but Arnel definitely sings circles around him since FTLOSM.
Nonetheless, I dare say you're correct.

WTF does that prove...they are not moving CD's at all....so Arnel is the second coming? No one I know even knows Perry left the band? DBS is everywhere and the sales of the new CD SUCK...so enlighten me?? What's to love?

[portland]

You know I might.

Given his reception amongst avowed Loons, I'm not sure he meets all the requirements or standards for Loonacy.
Dan, like most of us here (including myself), have a healthy respect for Perry's voice and his abilities as an artist. The reason I neither consider him or myself to be a Loon is because we put Journey before Perry. For example, I prefer Journey's catalogue to Perry's solo works. I believe Journey as a unit is substantially superior than its components. Basically, I'm not a Loon because I didn't stop being a fan of Journey when Perry left.
To me, there is a critical difference.

Yeah well I love Arrival so where does that put me???

[portland]

You know what that is bullshit.

It's not.
Unless you're confusing "diehard, unrepentant Loon" with "someone who really likes Steve Perry's voice or prefers Journey w/Perry." There is, I believe, a critical difference.

Butting your head against the wall, Giddy. If Perry sang these songs with a lesser ability, they would be brilliant.

You be quiet....

[Gideon]

WTF does that prove...they are not moving CD's at all....

Neither do the works of Jeff Scott Soto or W.E.T.
Speaking of which, aren't you a fan of his?

so Arnel is the second coming?

I've never said nor implied it. Being better than a faltering Perry isn't tantamount to being the second coming.

No one I know even knows Perry left the band?

Isn't that something of a compliment to Arnel or Augeri if the people you know can't tell the difference?

DBS is everywhere and the sales of the new CD SUCK...so enlighten me?? What's to love?

If we use sales as a measuring stick, do you even want to compare Perry's solo sales compared to classic Journey?

[Gideon]

Yeah well I love Arrival so where does that put me???

Since when? I thought you only liked half the album, or was that someone else? Perhaps I need to go quote-fishing.

[portland]

Yeah well I love Arrival so where does that put me???

Since when? I thought you only liked half the album, or was that someone else? Perhaps I need to go quote-fishing.

Go ahead...since Revelation and Eclipse...I have come to LOVE Arrival.

[portland]

Yeah well I love Arrival so where does that put me???

Since when? I thought you only liked half the album, or was that someone else? Perhaps I need to go quote-fishing.

Go ahead...since Revelation and Eclipse...I have come to LOVE Arrival.

I think that after what has come after Arrival I should be thankful for what was.....don't get me wrong...I don't want
anyone at the helm other than Perry...but Arrival was much better than what is out now.

[Gideon]

Nov 07, 2010 4:35 am

portland
Compact Disc
Joined: 06 Apr 2009
Posts: 7140
Location: Maine



Infinity 3.5
Evolution 4.0
Departure 4.0
Escape 5.0
Frontiers 4.0
Raised On Radio 4.0
Trial By Fire 4.0
Arrival 2.5
Generations 1.0
Revelation 1.0

If that's how you express your love, you're one brutal lady.