So Tell Me How You Really Feel About IT!

[NoMoreTails]

I know in one of the articles that Perry commented that he was looking out the window of his Hotel in late hours of the night & saw people walking around. He later was with Jon & they started writing the song DSB.
Lori

Interesting, now recount the story Perry told about writing Lovin Touchin Squeezin after seeing his girlfriend get out of another guy's car...undoubtedly while Sam Cooke's Nothing Can Change This Love played on his 8 Track Stereo.

[Monker]

It doesn't matter who's name went first on the credits, as long as they all got their name listed, right?

If being first didn't matter, then maybe CRL can explain why she specificaly pointed it out?

[Clasicrockldy]

It doesn't matter who's name went first on the credits, as long as they all got their name listed, right?

If being first didn't matter, then maybe CRL can explain why she specificaly pointed it out?

Monker,

I guess you didn't read Deano's earlier post, which said that DSB was written BY TWO other writers, not WITH two other writers, so I answered it by saying it was written by 3 writers, Perry, Schon,and Cain, per what was said in the Time3 book. Now does that explain it plain enough for you?

[Red13JoePa]

Well, sweetums:
I think Monker is trying to drag out of you why your wrote it was written by Perry, cain and schon "In that order."

[mnmsjrny]

The songs where all three co-wrote the songs are ALWAYS listed in the same order. And for TWO examples of this, look at the credits for Open Arms. When it came to songwriting credits it was ALWAYS Perry, Schon, Cain (and then anybody else if there was anybody else). If Schon did not get credit than it said Perry, Cain. If Cain did not get credit than it said Perry, Schon. If Perry did not get credit (did that happen any other time than Open Arms?) than it would say Schon, Cain.

Hmmm... thought this was interesting, so I grabbed the only Journey CD I have here at my desk to check it out -- GH. The Perry/Schon/Cain songs aren't *always* listed Perry-Schon-Cain. Looks like the ones from ROR are all listed as Perry-Cain-Schon. Probably wise to never say things like never and always.

And, for the record, WHO CARES who wrote how much of what... Geez... they're great songs, we love 'em, end of story.

[Clasicrockldy]

Well, sweetums:
I think Monker is trying to drag out of you why your wrote it was written by Perry, cain and schon "In that order."

Red13JoePA,

Like I told another poster here, do not call me "Sweetums" or any other name. Address me with my forum name. I do not disrespect you by calling you other names than your forum name , so please extend that courtesy to me.

Now that this is out of the way. If Monker had read all the posts, then he would of known what was going on. And as for dragging it out of me, you are way wrong on that. I did state where I got it from and why I posted what I posted as of writing credits for the songs. If Monker can't read everything, then it is on him. If anyone wants to be informed, then read everything before you post.

[Red13JoePa]

nice non answer.

[NoMoreTails]

The Perry/Schon/Cain songs aren't *always* listed Perry-Schon-Cain. Looks like the ones from ROR are all listed as Perry-Cain-Schon. Probably wise to never say things like never and always.

.

Not trying to speak for Dave, but his main point was intended to be that Perry was always listed first. He probably knows sometimes Cain was second, sometimes Schon was.
This is something that should have mattered to the primary songwriter of a song, in the instances where one person played a bigger role. Agreeing to list Perry first was probably the first of many bad decisions the band made in order to give Perry his way when they should have told him where to go...imo.

[Greg]

Why are you guys degrading my thread!

[heardonthestreet]

Lennon/McCartney!

I hear that Paul's trying to change that listing.

[Liz22562]

Clasicrockldy,

What is with the anger? I can assure you that Monker, NealisGod, Red, Jrny28, NC and many of the other frequent posters on this message board DO read the posts in a thread. IF, by chance, (and that is a big IF) they have missed a post or misunderstood something, they very quickly concede that fact.

Life is a tad to short to get all huffy about the order of names. Who really cares? Oh, and a warning: these guys are amazing at backing up their statements with facts.

Journey On guys and gals (you know I love ya!)

[jrnyman28]

You HAVE to ask?

Whatever...

Hey, the guy needs SOME pub I guess..Can't get it by earning a living, so he is gravy training a 25 yr old song, which was not his song; it was written by two other men, and played with 4 others..and he is screwing over his bandmates yet again..

Ohh now I am fired up!

Hey Deano..........

You should get your facts straight.......or at least say it in the correct way........ DSB was written by Steve Perry, Neal Schon and Jon Cain........ in that order........ so it is partly Steve's song..........I think you need to read up on your Journey facts.............

OK, I went back to what I think is the beginning of this mess. The above post by CRL (to me) sounded like she was implying that because Perry's name was FIRST that he had more to do with writing the song than any of the others listed.

From there:

Perry was listed first on every Journey song he helped with. It has nothing to do with the amount of work he is being credited with.

So you are saying that Steve Perry only "helped" on the songs??.... Give me a break............then Neal and Jon only "helped" on the songs as well....... show me where Neal or Jon did most of the writing....... if you can point that out to me.....In print .... then maybe I might be swayed........ but I don't think so.............. I believe each one brought something to the table......... in which all these songs were created........ so all writers should be credited with 1/3 ownership..............
_________________
Clasicrockldy

This where CRL implied that I was belittling Perry's contributions.

My reply then was:

That is NOT what I am saying. I am saying that ANY song in which Perry was involved, NO MATTER HOW MUCH, has Perry credited FIRST. His name first does not mean he contributed the MOST to it. Just like Jon's name being LAST does not mean he contributed the least. The songs where all three co-wrote the songs are ALWAYS listed in the same order. And for TWO examples of this, look at the credits for Open Arms. When it came to songwriting credits it was ALWAYS Perry, Schon, Cain (and then anybody else if there was anybody else). If Schon did not get credit than it said Perry, Cain. If Cain did not get credit than it said Perry, Schon. If Perry did not get credit (did that happen any other time than Open Arms?) than it would say Schon, Cain.

where I indicated that when Perry is involved, his name comes first. The rest of this post should have said things like "most" or "almost" as MNM pointed out. But when Perry was involved with a song, no matter HOW LITTLE (such as Open Arms) his name comes first. I think "Winds Of March" and the Dream After Dream soundtrack may be the only times this is not the case.

From there I think there was mass confusion to the actual points. But Monker seems to be posting under the same impression I did...that CRL was saying that Perry's name first meant Perry contributed more to the song than the others. Sorry that I incorrectly read your post that way CRL.

[PROPERRY]

I know in one of the articles that Perry commented that he was looking out the window of his Hotel in late hours of the night & saw people walking around. He later was with Jon & they started writing the song DSB.
Lori

Interesting, now recount the story Perry told about writing Lovin Touchin Squeezin after seeing his girlfriend get out of another guy's car...undoubtedly while Sam Cooke's Nothing Can Change This Love played on his 8 Track Stereo.

I'm sorry NMT, I have no clue, as to what you are referring to above. I only know of the comment Perry made about the writings of the song DSB because he commented on it in one of the many articles out just recently.

Lori

[Rockindeano]

You ALL should read more, especially you CRL..I admitted to a typo....Honestly..If you think I don't know my Journey facts like you say, maybe you should go back to the TWIGS board, honey.

I came in immediately,and clarified my typo..it wasn't a mistake, just one word..should ahve said WITH, not BY two other guys..


By continuing this fight, you will be deftly defeated..

[Clasicrockldy]

You HAVE to ask?

Whatever...

Hey, the guy needs SOME pub I guess..Can't get it by earning a living, so he is gravy training a 25 yr old song, which was not his song; it was written by two other men, and played with 4 others..and he is screwing over his bandmates yet again..

Ohh now I am fired up!

Hey Deano..........

You should get your facts straight.......or at least say it in the correct way........ DSB was written by Steve Perry, Neal Schon and Jon Cain........ in that order........ so it is partly Steve's song..........I think you need to read up on your Journey facts.............

OK, I went back to what I think is the beginning of this mess. The above post by CRL (to me) sounded like she was implying that because Perry's name was FIRST that he had more to do with writing the song than any of the others listed.

From there:

Perry was listed first on every Journey song he helped with. It has nothing to do with the amount of work he is being credited with.

So you are saying that Steve Perry only "helped" on the songs??.... Give me a break............then Neal and Jon only "helped" on the songs as well....... show me where Neal or Jon did most of the writing....... if you can point that out to me.....In print .... then maybe I might be swayed........ but I don't think so.............. I believe each one brought something to the table......... in which all these songs were created........ so all writers should be credited with 1/3 ownership..............
_________________
Clasicrockldy

This where CRL implied that I was belittling Perry's contributions.

My reply then was:

That is NOT what I am saying. I am saying that ANY song in which Perry was involved, NO MATTER HOW MUCH, has Perry credited FIRST. His name first does not mean he contributed the MOST to it. Just like Jon's name being LAST does not mean he contributed the least. The songs where all three co-wrote the songs are ALWAYS listed in the same order. And for TWO examples of this, look at the credits for Open Arms. When it came to songwriting credits it was ALWAYS Perry, Schon, Cain (and then anybody else if there was anybody else). If Schon did not get credit than it said Perry, Cain. If Cain did not get credit than it said Perry, Schon. If Perry did not get credit (did that happen any other time than Open Arms?) than it would say Schon, Cain.

where I indicated that when Perry is involved, his name comes first. The rest of this post should have said things like "most" or "almost" as MNM pointed out. But when Perry was involved with a song, no matter HOW LITTLE (such as Open Arms) his name comes first. I think "Winds Of March" and the Dream After Dream soundtrack may be the only times this is not the case.

From there I think there was mass confusion to the actual points. But Monker seems to be posting under the same impression I did...that CRL was saying that Perry's name first meant Perry contributed more to the song than the others. Sorry that I incorrectly read your post that way CRL.

Jrnyman28.......

Thank you for the post above.

At first, I did think that you were belitting Perry's contributions, but then reading farther on, I understood what you were saying.

I didn't say that Perry contributed the most, far from it. All I was saying that all of them contributed to the songs. I was posting in regards to what Deano said, which was DSB was written by two other guys, and not Perry as well. I was looking at the Time3 booklet which I had gotten the order information from. I am sorry that you read my post wrong. That can happen which leads to heated posting and misunderstandings.

And to Liz 22562,

Who is angry?? Certainly not me. I don't get angry over order of names. If you took it that way, that is on you. All I was doing was going by the order of names in the Times3 booklet. If you have a problem with that, take it up with whoever ok'd the booket to be released as it is.

[Clasicrockldy]

You ALL should read more, especially you CRL..I admitted to a typo....Honestly..If you think I don't know my Journey facts like you say, maybe you should go back to the TWIGS board, honey.

I came in immediately,and clarified my typo..it wasn't a mistake, just one word..should ahve said WITH, not BY two other guys..


By continuing this fight, you will be deftly defeated..

Deano,

You did just that. Admitted your typo. And who is fighting??. Certainly not me. I am trying to discuss here. This is a free forum to express one's thoughts or opinions, isn't it??.

And as for the TWIG board that you are so fond of, why don't you go back there yourself?. In a previous post, I did say that I am not a fan of Styx, nor do I post there.

And how about this. If you know all these facts, why not write a book about it?? Set the whole world straight. Just a thought for you to think about.

As for being defeated, who cares? I guess you need a defeat to make you feel good about yourself.

[Rockindeano]

Deano,

You did just that. Admitted your typo. And who is fighting??. Certainly not me. I am trying to discuss here. This is a free forum to express one's thoughts or opinions, isn't it??.

And as for the TWIG board that you are so fond of, why don't you go back there yourself?. In a previous post, I did say that I am not a fan of Styx, nor do I post there.

And how about this. If you know all these facts, why not write a book about it?? Set the whole world straight. Just a thought for you to think about.

As for being defeated, who cares? I guess you need a defeat to make you feel good about yourself. [/b][/i][/color]

Hey sweetheart, , I have only seen you over on the TWIGS board..I hate TWIGS..They are minor league compared to this band.

I never claimed to be a know-it-all...I fucked up and typed something so fast, and , well, just fucked up...then you came, and told me I needed to brush up on my Journey facts. Uh, no I don't. I know enough already.


A defeat to make myself feel better? What the fuck is that all about?


Now, if you want to call a truce, that would be great. I already caused enough of a cluster fuck with a typo(brain fart), but I am offering you the olive branch... "take it."

[Clasicrockldy]

Hey sweetheart, , I have only seen you over on the TWIGS board..I hate TWIGS..They are minor league compared to this band.

I never claimed to be a know-it-all...I fucked up and typed something so fast, and , well, just fucked up...then you came, and told me I needed to brush up on my Journey facts. Uh, no I don't. I know enough already.


A defeat to make myself feel better? What the fuck is that all about?


Now, if you want to call a truce, that would be great. I already caused enough of a cluster fuck with a typo(brain fart), but I am offering you the olive branch... "take it."

Deano.......

Listen up...............One more time I have to say this.

1. You have never seen me over at that TWIGS board. I have only posted here in the Journey forum. I will state this one more time. I am NOT a fan of Styx. Never have been, never will be. I do not post there.

2. If you know enough Journey facts already, write them down in a book and educate persons who might not know what you know about Journey. I bet there would be less misunderstandings that way.

3. Truce taken.

[ohsherrie]

Now, if you want to call a truce, that would be great. I already caused enough of a cluster fuck with a typo(brain fart), but I am offering you the olive branch... "take it."

Sounds like a great idea to me.

[Rockindeano]

2. If you know enough Journey facts already, write them down in a book and educate persons who might not know what you know about Journey. I bet there would be less misunderstandings that way.

Why? I am not arrogant. I don't look down on people. YOU write a fucking book and get back to me when you're done..

[Clasicrockldy]

2. If you know enough Journey facts already, write them down in a book and educate persons who might not know what you know about Journey. I bet there would be less misunderstandings that way.

[Why? I am not arrogant. I don't look down on people. YOU write a fucking book and get back to me when you're done..

So much for a truce, Deano.

Why couldn't you take that in the light that is in? Which is, why not share that wealth of Journey information you have with others??. It isn't arrogance to write a book on what you know. So, for me to ask you to write a book about it isn't something you should get defensive over.

Sheesh.

And as for me writing a book on Journey facts. I can't do it because I don't know everything about them. Or as I should say, as much as you. So why don't you whip out that keyboard and do a book?. It couldn't hurt

[SuiteMadameBlue]

Okay, maybe this thread can finally be put to rest - LOL


"Officially" the writers of a song are listed alphabetically. I'm sure they were paid the same amount for the songwriting, please don't quote me. I'm sure the Publishers get a cut too. If any of these fine gentlemen were also the producer, then that person/people would get an extra cut of money.

DON T STOP BELIEVIN BMI Work #327895
Songwriter/Composer

CAIN JONATHAN
PERRY STEPHEN RAY
SCHON NEAL J

Publishers
LACEY BOULEVARD MUSIC BMI 131161524
WEED HIGH NIGHTMARE MUSIC BMI 87855715

[Rockindeano]

Why couldn't you take that in the light that is in? Which is, why not share that wealth of Journey information you have with others??.

There are others here..many others, that know a lot more than I do about the band..Hate to ever admit this, but dammit; TNC, 28, NIGGY(maybe?, no he doesn't), and Monker. All I have is passion and/or compassion for these guys...

I did take it the wrong way, so sorry about that..I thought you were being smug, so I apologize yet again.

So why don't you whip out that keyboard and do a book?.

How do you know I haven't already started one.. ..and I write it on paper, not keys..

[ohsherrie]

DON T STOP BELIEVIN BMI Work #327895
Songwriter/Composer

CAIN JONATHAN
PERRY STEPHEN RAY
SCHON NEAL J

Publishers
LACEY BOULEVARD MUSIC BMI 131161524
WEED HIGH NIGHTMARE MUSIC BMI 87855715

Thank you SMB, that should indeed put the subject to rest.

[SuiteMadameBlue]

ohsherrie says:

Thank you SMB, that should indeed put the subject to rest.

You're welcome I'm sure this thread will keep going.

I'll have to go back and see what the original post was about. LOL

[Clasicrockldy]

Why couldn't you take that in the light that is in? Which is, why not share that wealth of Journey information you have with others??.

There are others here..many others, that know a lot more than I do about the band..Hate to ever admit this, but dammit; TNC, 28, NIGGY(maybe?, no he doesn't), and Monker. All I have is passion and/or compassion for these guys...

I did take it the wrong way, so sorry about that..I thought you were being smug, so I apologize yet again.

So why don't you whip out that keyboard and do a book?.

How do you know I haven't already started one.. ..and I write it on
paper, not keys..

Deano,

I accept your apology. No, I wasn't being smug, I was just asking for you to share you knowledge is all.

If you do write the book, I would buy it.

[ohsherrie]

ohsherrie says:

Thank you SMB, that should indeed put the subject to rest.

You're welcome I'm sure this thread will keep going.

I'll have to go back and see what the original post was about. LOL

Well, this one didn't stray as far off as some of them do. I'm afraid I'm as guilty as anyone of going off on tangents.

[NoMoreTails]

Okay, maybe this thread can finally be put to rest - LOL
"Officially" the writers of a song are listed alphabetically. I'm sure they were paid the same amount for the songwriting, please don't quote me. I'm sure the Publishers get a cut too. If any of these fine gentlemen were also the producer, then that person/people would get an extra cut of money.

This may be official according to BMI or ASCAP per their policy of listing writers alphabetically. The issue in my mind as been how they are listed on Journey albums and liner notes.

[SuiteMadameBlue]

No More Tails says:

The issue in my mind as been how they are listed on Journey albums and liner notes.

OMG, does it really matter? Seriously? Maybe they flipped a coin from song to song or album to album on who was listed first.

I wish each member had a question and answer session on the internet, then they could each answer this burning question.

I'm very serious, some of you people on the Journey board are really funny. I love reading some of these posts, it never ends - LOL

I'll keep looking for the answer........................... LOL

[NoMoreTails]

No More Tails says:

The issue in my mind as been how they are listed on Journey albums and liner notes.

OMG, does it really matter? Seriously? Maybe they flipped a coin from song to song or album to album on who was listed first.

I was just saying that the "official" info posted before does not answer the question as to why Perry was listed first on credits on Journey albums. If it doesn't matter to you, don't continue to post on the subject, if I choose to make another post its my perrogative to do so. If its not of interest to you don't read it, maybe there's something more interesting on the Styx board.
So you think they flipped a coin on every song, and Perry won every coin toss....The obvious answer to the question is that Perry demanded to be listed first and they agreed to it.