Augeri-Heads versus Perry-Heads

[Matthew]

Journey is not supposed to be funky.

But - in 1986 - they were. Get used to it.

[Lula]

I've just never understood the whole P vs A thing. It is music- nothing more, nothing less. Those that have an allegiance to one or the other are out there as far as I'm concerned. Do they think it matters to either man whether or not they possess this sick loyalty?? Do they actually think they give a damn?? It's sad that the music can't be enjoyed as intended by the players.

As for me- I love Perry, have enjoyed Augeri, but I'm a Neal Schon fan !

Yes - it's completely absurd. But then so is passionately supporting a sports club. Surely the point of fandom is to feel a strong and irrational sense of allegiance?

I suppose for some, but I still don't get it. The heated arguments, the denial of talent, lack of credit, etc...

Music, sports, film... are forms of entertainment in my life. I love the Anaheim Ducks and the L.A. Kings, but I won't get all heated if some one thinks they suck, and believe me there are those that think they suck, whatever I went to a ton of Journey shows last year and had a blast doing it. Sure, I'm pissed about the lack of an overall live performance, but I still had a good time... spent a shitload of money :sigh:, but oh well. I think the allegiance for either Perry or Augeri is, ummmm how do you say..... unhealthy or just plain weird. I just don't get it, but it really does not matter. To each his/her own

And yes, Perry may very well be an ass, but during his day no one could touch him vocally. The 78-81 era of Journey to me is pure magic and does not have to be replicated for me to continue to enjoy the music.

[Matthew]

No...you don't do that to a kid....

Not to mention subjecting the fan base to Randy Jackson in Spandex in '86...Good Lord...Perry REALLY has it out for the fans!

Oh come on! Randy was nothing but a plus! He put the funk into Journey!

Good bass player...Poor dresser.

It seems that Randy's radical chic is misunderstood even to this day....

[Matthew]

I've just never understood the whole P vs A thing. It is music- nothing more, nothing less. Those that have an allegiance to one or the other are out there as far as I'm concerned. Do they think it matters to either man whether or not they possess this sick loyalty?? Do they actually think they give a damn?? It's sad that the music can't be enjoyed as intended by the players.

As for me- I love Perry, have enjoyed Augeri, but I'm a Neal Schon fan !

Yes - it's completely absurd. But then so is passionately supporting a sports club. Surely the point of fandom is to feel a strong and irrational sense of allegiance?

I suppose for some, but I still don't get it. The heated arguments, the denial of talent, lack of credit, etc...

Music, sports, film... are forms of entertainment in my life. I love the Anaheim Ducks and the L.A. Kings, but I won't get all heated if some one thinks they suck, and believe me there are those that think they suck, whatever I went to a ton of Journey shows last year and had a blast doing it. Sure, I'm pissed about the lack of an overall live performance, but I still had a good time... spent a shitload of money :sigh:, but oh well. I think the allegiance for either Perry or Augeri is, ummmm how do you say..... unhealthy or just plain weird. I just don't get it, but it really does not matter. To each his/her own

And yes, Perry may very well be an ass, but during his day no one could touch him vocally. The 78-81 era of Journey to me is pure magic and does not have to be replicated for me to continue to enjoy the music.

Yes...it's weird and unhealthy and ridiculous...but maybe it's just a problem we blokes suffer from? You know...old tribal warrior crap from the caveman days...etc..etc...

[A Fire Inside]

Yes...it's weird and unhealthy and ridiculous...but maybe it's just a problem we blokes suffer from? You know...old tribal warrior crap from the caveman days...etc..etc...

Actually it seems to be a problem for both genders...

[conversationpc]

It seems that Randy's radical chic is misunderstood even to this day....

[NealIsGod]

Football is more than entertainment... not life or death, but somewhere in between.

[Lula]

I'd say both male and female have the sickness

[cetera]

Here goes:

The year: 1980

The Date: May 10th.

Location: Pittsburgh Civic Arena.

Opening Band: The Baby's (with TA DA Jon Cain on keys)

I wasn't quite 11 yet...but...I had a favorite band: Journey!

My dad being aware of the fact that I was a huge Journey fan, and being one of the big wigs in the Pittsburgh PR scene go on the phone with the promoters and arranged to get 2 tickets as well as after show passes.

After the show is over, my father goes where the directions say to go to meet the guys. I am walking on air...my favorite band it the world just delivered a phenomenal concert...and I am gonna meet them.

I get back stage, after a brief wait, the guys start coming in. I get the chance to talk with Neal who is very nice to a little kid obviously awestruck. I talk with Gregg, also very nice. I talk with Smitty who tells me I should be a drummer because they are the heartbeat of the band. Ross spends a LONG time talking with me, asking me questions about Journey and why I like them. During my conversation with Ross, Perry walks in.

He is standing there, speaking with someone he obviously knows, I walk over but keep a respectful distance, holding my Official Departure Tour program, waiting to get the chance to speak to him and have it signed. My heart was going about 1000 miles per hour.

After 5 minutes Perry looks down and says in a nasty voice, "What the fuck do you want?"

I couldn't even speak. I was crushed.

My father who was standing there watching me, storms over, looks Perry in the eye for a long second. Perry just smirks. My dad grabs my arms and walks me out, in tears. Journey almost needed a new lead singer that day not 18 years later.

Any affection I felt for Perry died then and there.

Love the music, hate the man.

I know it isn't the most Christian thing to say, but I wouldn't piss on him if he was on fire.

What happens to a 10 year old (good or bad) tends to stay with him or her for the rest of their lives.

Perry should have known that, even back then, obviously the other guys did.

Woah!!!

I don't quite know what to say....

[NealIsGod]

Why didn't your dad snap Perry in half, RVR?

[Clasicrockldy]

But I still stand by my original answer... Perryheads are far more obnoxious than Augeri's fans.

Uh oh Fire........ shame on you! I am a Perryhead, but far from obnoxious. I do have Red13, Arrival, and Generations. I have given them a few spins, but Augeri didn't move or capture my attention. Then Soto came along and my ears perked up once again for Journey.

Not all Perryheads are obnoxious. At least not me !

[RossValoryRocks]

Why didn't your dad snap Perry in half, RVR?

He had more restraint than I would have in a similar situation that's for sure. But I think it boils down to this, 2 young kids...and 2 words...Jail time.

[A Fire Inside]

Uh oh Fire........ shame on you! I am a Perryhead, but far from obnoxious. I do have Red13, Arrival, and Generations. I have given them a few spins, but Augeri didn't move or capture my attention. Then Soto came along and my ears perked up once again for Journey.

Not all Perryheads are obnoxious. At least not me !

No, not all, but in general (at least in my experience).

Sexxymofo/Z was a great example... I have never seen an Augerihead like that.

[brywool]

I've heard similar stories of Perry being a dick like that. I do notice that stories I've heard since Journey is no longer, he seems to have humbled himself a bit. Geez, that would suck, meeting an idol to find out they are a mutherf***er.

[brywool]

By the way, Randy Jackson was great in Journey. Great bass player. Needs a friggin' thesaurus nowadays, but a great player.

Michael Baird??? WTF?!?!? I heard that they passed up Omar Hakkim for Baird. S T U P I D. Shoulda kept Smith happy.

[Clasicrockldy]

Uh oh Fire........ shame on you! I am a Perryhead, but far from obnoxious. I do have Red13, Arrival, and Generations. I have given them a few spins, but Augeri didn't move or capture my attention. Then Soto came along and my ears perked up once again for Journey.

Not all Perryheads are obnoxious. At least not me !

No, not all, but in general (at least in my experience).

Sexxymofo/Z was a great example... I have never seen an Augerihead like that.

Fire,

Sexxymofo was a big Perryloon !

[Marabelle]

oh well. nothing surprises me anymore. sorry RVR. i guess he just gets in line with all the others like him who have performed on stage and were similiar creatures. i guess he can forget about tryiing to prevent the stone from cracking and instead try to preserve his personal legacy with one that speaks to him being a decent fellow. and, no i'm not anything remotely a perryhead or aurgerihead or jsshead. just a girl.

[A Fire Inside]

Fire,

Sexxymofo was a big Perryloon !

LOL I guess my terminology is messed up, then. The "Perryloons" are more obnoxious than "Augeriloons" (mostly because I haven't seen any real Augeriloons yet...)

Better?

[Clasicrockldy]

Fire,

Sexxymofo was a big Perryloon !

LOL I guess my terminology is messed up, then. The "Perryloons" are more obnoxious than "Augeriloons" (mostly because I haven't seen any real Augeriloons yet...)

Better?

uh huh !

[mnmsjrny]

That being said, no one "hates" Perry. Maybe they are not impressed with his character... because he has demonstrated time and time again that the only person he cares about is himself and his image. Most people would still agree that he has phenomenal talent and he was a big part of Journey's success. But maybe you should look in the mirror and think about Schon and Cain before you start pointing fingers at other people's "hate".

This has to be the most reasonable thing anyone has said in the Great Steve Debate. Love Perry's voice, always have, always will. Not a huge fan of his personality -- he actually gained MAJOR points with me when he showed up in Hollywood last year. I didn't think for a second that he would, and until that time I didn't realize just how my growing dislike of his personality had impacted my enjoyment of his singing, but that's a story for another day.

As for the subject of this post -- I've run into ALL kinds of absolutely lunatic people in Journey-fandom the last 10 years or so but invariably the most over-the-top, obsessively deranged ones come from the "Perryhead" camp. I have no problem with folks who prefer the Perry years and can't get into Augeri, and lots of respect for the ones who gave Augeri a shot and said "not my cup of tea." That's perfectly fine. It's the people who think Steve Perry walks on water, does no wrong, and is pure as the driven snow that drive me around the bend. (And the same holds true for *any* of the other guys)

Stu -- remember when you told me that story 'bout Perry and how it totally did not surprise me. Sad huh?

[MartyMoffatt]

I'm impressed. I think this is the first time I've seen any thread discuss this subject without tempers heading into the stratosphere.

Unfortunately, I can't really add much to the debate. During the supposed heyday of Journey (late 70's early 80's) I never really 'got' Perry. We had this thing called the New Wave of British Heavy Metal going on and while bands like Def Leppard were making it big over here, Journey just didn't really make it onto the radar. What we did get to hear didn't do anything for me at the time - I wanted my music loud and heavy at the time and the only Journey we heard were the ballads. Yeuch!

I've since mellowed my tastes and come to appreciate the quality of their music - after repeatedly being begged by my wife to come to the US and see them live. Since that first show three years ago I've been well and truly converted. Although even now for me its about the music, the musicianship, the songs and the vocals, not JUST the vocals.

What that pre-amble is leading up to is the fact that I have absolutely no loyalty to Steve Perry or the 'legacy' everybody talks about - sorry, I don't have anything against him, I just don't have the history with him that the rest of you do.

That's probably why I don't understand the Perryheads v Augeriheads (or ..loons, whatever the difference is) mentality. A singer is a singer, not a god, and its sad that anybody is compelled to hate one in order to show support for the other.

I do have some loyalty to Augeri, but not necessarily because of his singing. I've been fortunate enough to meet him 4-5 times and he is absolutely the nicest person, rock star or otherwise, I've ever encountered. At least to me.

JSS I've been a fan of since before his Journey days so while I am sad for the medical predicament that Augeri finds himself in now I am more than happy with Jeff singing with the band.

I like Augeri AND I like Soto. Is that so radical? Or am I supposed to take sides now, in order to proclaim my love for one at the expense of the other?

Marty

[fred_journeyman]

It's nice to read posts in this thread. RVR, sorry that happened to you. It was probably a case of someone believing their own press. It happens to often to count in celeb circles, but that probably doesn't make it easier to digest.

There WILL never be another singer like Perry.

Anyway...what was I saying...oh yeah! I'm enjoying the read.

[Rockindeano]

No, not all, but in general (at least in my experience).

Sexxymofo/Z was a great example... I have never seen an Augerihead like that.

You haven't? I have.

Penny (augeri1), acceber, all the wackos at BT....They are FAR WORSE than the Perryheads...at least Perry was great..Augeri wasn't even average.\

Augeriheads are the worst. Just go dial up BT..you will see an entire group of fucking retarded Holmsteins and wack-jobs...

[Matthew]

I'm impressed. I think this is the first time I've seen any thread discuss this subject without tempers heading into the stratosphere.

Unfortunately, I can't really add much to the debate. During the supposed heyday of Journey (late 70's early 80's) I never really 'got' Perry. We had this thing called the New Wave of British Heavy Metal going on and while bands like Def Leppard were making it big over here, Journey just didn't really make it onto the radar. What we did get to hear didn't do anything for me at the time - I wanted my music loud and heavy at the time and the only Journey we heard were the ballads. Yeuch!

I've since mellowed my tastes and come to appreciate the quality of their music - after repeatedly being begged by my wife to come to the US and see them live. Since that first show three years ago I've been well and truly converted. Although even now for me its about the music, the musicianship, the songs and the vocals, not JUST the vocals.

What that pre-amble is leading up to is the fact that I have absolutely no loyalty to Steve Perry or the 'legacy' everybody talks about - sorry, I don't have anything against him, I just don't have the history with him that the rest of you do.

That's probably why I don't understand the Perryheads v Augeriheads (or ..loons, whatever the difference is) mentality. A singer is a singer, not a god, and its sad that anybody is compelled to hate one in order to show support for the other.

I do have some loyalty to Augeri, but not necessarily because of his singing. I've been fortunate enough to meet him 4-5 times and he is absolutely the nicest person, rock star or otherwise, I've ever encountered. At least to me.

JSS I've been a fan of since before his Journey days so while I am sad for the medical predicament that Augeri finds himself in now I am more than happy with Jeff singing with the band.

I like Augeri AND I like Soto. Is that so radical? Or am I supposed to take sides now, in order to proclaim my love for one at the expense of the other?

Marty

I'm from the UK too and you're right - Journey had no presence over here in the 1980s - and I was totally preoccupied by heavy metal as well.

But in May '86 I heard Tommy Vance playing "Be Good To Yourself" and it blew me away. Yes, I'd heard "DSB" and "Who's Crying Now" - and I'd liked these tunes - but I guess the timing was right in '86.

I was trying to get over a teenage love affair - which obviously at the time felt like the greatest love the world has ever known - and there was something so inspiring and uplifting about "BGTY" - and indeed the whole ROR album. And then throughout 1986 and 1987 I fell for all the albums.

So...although I wasn't 'there'...in the way that many people on this site were...I didn't see them live...media coverage was scarce...etc etc...I did feel a strong emotional connection to Journey in the mid-80s.

Anyway...fast forward eighteen years..and I'm all fucked up about something else...plus mid-life crisis is on the horizon...and I find myself listening to Journey again...and the trio of Perry/Schon/Cain works it's magic for the second time.

But then...I think: what ever happened to Journey?

So I investigate...and discover that they have hired this guy who looks a bit like Perry and sounds a bit like Perry...a guy whose primary purpose is to create the illusion that Perry is still in the band...a guy who sings all the classics co-written and made famous by Perry...and that Journey have been dropped by their record label...and are playing casinos and cruise ships....and have drifted into obscurity...

...and then I come across the AugeriHeads...who run these devious and controlling websites where no discussion is allowed...where Perry is portrayed as 'just another ex-member'....where the dismal failure of the band is denied or excused....and despite the continued success of multi-million selling Journey back catalogue they claim that this guy who has been hired to create the illusion that Perry is still with us (whilst simultaneously dismissing Perry as a guy no more significant than the roadie Journey had in 1975) is the man responsible for 'letting the Journey continue'!

These people were clearly insane.

I sought refuge with the 'PerryLoons'...and yes...some took it all too seriously and got hysterically upset whenever anyone said he might not be a genius or incredibly happy or a wonderful guy to the core at all times...BUT they still had a connection to reality...and as proud Journey fans they were angry about the dire situation the band was in.

These people were clearly sane.

So I guess my point is that PerryHeads might SEEM more mad than AugeriHeads because they tend to be over-emotional...all that nostalgia and lost love and youth...all the memories of Journey as world-beaters....and the overwhelming reality that modern day Journey were in a downward spiral...whereas the Eagles were still triumphant...well, it's enough to make any fan upset.

But the scary ones...the crazy ones who hide their detachment from reality...the ones who seem reasonable but are constantly plotting to make an indifferent world forget the the band's glorious past...the ones who compulsively delete posts and ban dissent...the cunning ones who go to the Perry sites in disguise to promote the new guy...the deluded ones who will accept ANY indignity the band suffers whilst simultaneously attacking others for not being 'true' Journey fans...well, they all congregate under the AugeriHead umbrella.

[jabber]

MartyMoffatt said he didn't have the history with Perry-era Journey, therefore felt no loyalty. I'm the same with regards to Augeri. I was off listening to other stuff, since once Perry left I quit following Journey (that one-sided indignation, eh?). When Augeri came on board, I did listen. I did try to get into it. I just couldn't put any heart into it. After years of being unable to acknowledge Journey-without-Perry as a viable interest, my curiosity (and mad desire for a Journey concert, ANY Journey) made me go see them at a live show. I was impressed, I sang along, I gave props to Augeri for helping hold it together. I have no ill will towards Augeri, nor to JSS. But I don't see them as "replacements" either. I see Journey as several different entities, different bands if you will, therefore I can like all of them without feeling "disloyal."

My own feelings towards Perry have multiple reasons. The main one was the voice. The second was the memories... some of my most impressionable years and milestones have Perry vocals as the soundtrack. The third was Perry's history in the place I grew up, and when you're surrounded by people who knew him, played with him, when you went to the same school and lived in the same neighborhood, maybe saw some of his family now and then, or even Perry himself... that tends to put simple fan appreciation on a more personal level. That's hard to shake.

Anyway. I don't think I qualify as a delusional Perryhead, since I don't believe he's ever going back to Journey and I'm just as happy if he doesn't. I do believe he's going to fall off the fence he's been on for the last so-many-years and either decide to "officially" retire from singing or put out some music to get that ego boost from his fans. I'm betting on the ego, myself.

As for the Augeriheads... they are fans of a different band/singer than the one I knew, so my connection to them is marginal at best. And when I do read their posts I just think of David Koresh and it all makes sense.

[fred_journeyman]

But the scary ones...the crazy ones who hide their detachment from reality...the ones who seem reasonable but are constantly plotting to make an indifferent world forget the the band's glorious past...the ones who compulsively delete posts and ban dissent...the cunning ones who go to the Perry sites in disguise to promote the new guy...the deluded ones who will accept ANY indignity the band suffers whilst simultaneously attacking others for not being 'true' Journey fans...well, they all congregate under the AugeriHead umbrella.

This is interesting and I guess it all depends largely upon what your experience has been. Mine has been completely the opposite. While I have "met" Augeriheads who take the whole thing rather seriously and devote hours of energy to pumping up Steve A. to the exclusion of Steve P., the ones with whom I have found to be thoroughly out of touch with reality (not all, but many) are the Perryheads, by far.

When you talk about "the cunning ones who go to the Perry sites in disguise..." all I have to do is think back to the days of VH-1 and prior, when many Perryheads were doing the exact same thing. If they didn't like you and if they felt you weren't totally sold out to Perry, then you not only came under their suspicions, but became a target of their hate.

When was I was associated with one particular Perry-related board, I think back and wonder why I was involved there at all. I truly enjoyed Perry's singing (and still do), yet daily, members would take photos of the band members or Herbie, and using Photoshop, put them in weird or insulting situations, or talk about Neal's crotch in a derogatory way, or just generally make fun of the band and those who enjoyed them post-Perry. If you deigned to refer to Steve firing Smith or Valory, or insisting that HH be ousted, IMMEDIATELY people would pounce on you and if you didn't back off from insinuating that Perry might have been wrong, then you would be ostracized.

I remember on one particular occasion after watching a boot of the Escape tour at Budokan, I simply made the comment (something like), "Man, Steve looked tired during the concert." Well, holy crap, you'd think I said that Steve should DIE! I mean, my goodness, one gal came out of the woodwork lambasting me for insulting Steve and for "reading into things" and insulting her because Steve was her idol, yada, yada, yada.

I remember on this same board, a younger fan joined and after a few weeks, quit altogether because he felt like he couldn't say anything good about Journey. If he mentioned Neal's guitar-playing or a specific solo, immediately the voices would jump in with things like, "Yeah, if Perry hadn't forced him to play it that way, it wouldn't have sounded that good!" or some such nonsense. I know Perry played drums and bass, but I didn't know he was also a guitar virtuouso as well.

My experience has plainly been that with Perryheads, there is no middle ground. Either you love Steve and hate the band, or you love the band and hate Steve. I will never forget the day a number of years ago, that I posted on VH-1 the details of my "epiphany." I had come to the conclusion that I could no longer harbor any ill will toward Journey for moving on and as for Steve, I had NEVER harbored any ill will toward him anyway. From THAT day forward, those on the Perry Only side of the aisle decided to attack me. I was called every name in the book and they continue to this day. The difference is that unlike that first day, I have developed a thick skin. It's on them, not me. It's their energy they're wasting, not mine.

Let's not forget what a number of posters on this very forum did in the past by creating their own private area where they could make fun of many of us including Andrew. They had little "pet" names for many of us and would gather to not only form an alliance, but to decide how they were going to simply disrupt this board.

I have not experienced that with Augeriheads, but by the same token, I've not hung out on Augeri-related boards. I no longer hang out on Perry-related boards either.

That's been my experience. To each, their own.

If people want to get angry about the situation with today's Journey, let 'em. I don't have the energy for it, and I have better things to occupy my time. If the world ends tomorrow, I'm quite certain that God is not going to ask me, "So, before I decide whether or not you're worthy to go through the Pearly Gates, what's your take on this Journey situation?"

[Chakra]

Now the claim is Perry is a child abuser! What next, a serial killer? Interesting this "victim" uses nearly the exact same quote that Herbie Herbert used in expressing his feelings towards Steve. Sounds like all the wolves run in a pack. By the way, where were Ross, Neal and Jon when Steve was supposedly spitting nails at this "poor" helpless little kid? He said they were there and knew all about it?

Oh, then we have another intimated revelation that Steve's bodyguard roughed up some ladies on the WOF? C'mon......ludicrous..........

All this trash talking needs to stop NOW. No human on the planet is a Saint, just as no one deserves to be slandered. This is about MUSIC plain and simple. If people want to believe in Perry, let them believe. If they support Aug or the new guy, that's their perogative as well. Stop the personal attacks, gossip and lies

[Rockindeano]

Italia, what's wrong, your period start?

[MartyMoffatt]

...and then I come across the AugeriHeads...who run these devious and controlling websites where no discussion is allowed...where Perry is portrayed as 'just another ex-member'....where the dismal failure of the band is denied or excused....and despite the continued success of multi-million selling Journey back catalogue they claim that this guy who has been hired to create the illusion that Perry is still with us (whilst simultaneously dismissing Perry as a guy no more significant than the roadie Journey had in 1975) is the man responsible for 'letting the Journey continue'!

These people were clearly insane.

Care to elaborate on these websites? I'd like to take a look for myself.

Perhaps I should preface this with the comment that my experience of the Journey 'culture' is relatively recent, but in that experience I see things slightly differently. The Augeri fans I've spoken to and seen on this forum and BT generally acknowledge that Perry was a great vocalist. However they support Augeri now as the current vocalist. That's a reasonable stance to take in my opinion.

The Perry fans I've seen, however (and I'm generalising here, this certainly doesn't apply to all of them), don't seem to recognise that it is no longer the 1980's. They don't like Augeri and won't recognise any talent he has BECAUSE he's in Journey. That isn't a reasonable stance to take.

Both these fanbases have their extremes (a little like MR and BT) but for the reasons above I think the Perryloons have a tendency to be the most extreme.

Marty

[Saint John]

Any person who runs around calling himself/herself a (fill-in-the-blank)-head is a fucking loser. When it comes right down to it, we don't know much about these people at all. In fact, in most cases, we know nothing at all. Yet, we "love" them. Give me a fuckin' break. This cult-like mentality is exactly how people are manipulated...saying they'd do just about anything for front row seats or back stage passes. I'll go on record as saying that I love Steve Perry's voice and his contributions to music...that's it...nothing more. For all I know, he could go home at night and jack off to kiddie porn. Doubtful, but stranger things have happened. As for the story about RVR, while it was an unfortunate encounter, it shows a human side of Steve Perry. One that might have been frustrated from touring, had an argument in his relationship, or maybe he's just an asshole. At any rate, we should love the music and distance ourselves from disappointment by staying away from people we think we "love" when we really don't know jack shit about them. It just makes so much more sense.