The Journey Forum

[Saint John]

We all know the only reason DL has added the pyro and fireto their on this current leg of the tour is because they need more fake shit to sucker their fans.

Plus, you talk about Neal's cover band. What's with DL's shitty cover album. That's a real turd. Nobody want's to hear that cover song horse shit. Next thing DL will come out with is a Christmas cd of old Rudolf the Rednosed fuck'in Reindeer songs. That will go over well too!!!!!!!

Sorry to rain on your parade dude, but I went to Moline the other night for the main reason of seeing JSS with Journey. I wasn't expecting anything from Def Leppard at all - I was actually planning to leave after Journey played. I was disappointed that Journey's show was somewhat mediocre that night, so I decided to stay and see Def Leppard. To my surprise, they put on a kick-ass rock show that I will remember as one of the best I've ever seen - and I have seen hundreds of good rock shows.

You can say whatever you want about Def Leppard, but they didn't need any "fake shit" to prove themselves as one of the best acts on the road today. As a hardcore Journey fan, I am disappointed to inform you that they kicked Journey's ass at this show. It may have been a different story when you saw them - because every band has their "on" and "off" nights. But you could poll anyone who saw the show that I saw in Moline, Illinois, and they would tell you - Def Leppard kicked major ass that night, and Journey paled in comparison.

Maybe the newness of JSS has worn off now, and Journey is facing the hard reality that it lost its soul when Steve Perry left. All of the members of Journey are superb performers and musicians - including JSS. But the chemistry that fueled the sales of over 75-million albums left when Perry was replaced. Augeri and JSS never sold any albums to speak of before or after they joined Journey. It's the legacy of the Perry/Journey years that continues to fuel the sales of Journey concert tickets. People like myself want to go back and re-live that high one more time, but it's just not there anymore like it was in the Perry years. My wife says the same thing. She was not impressed by the Augeri-Journey or the JSS-Journey.

P.S. - If you'll notice, I didn't need to stoop to character assaults and profanity to prove my point. I don't need to - the music did the talking itself without my help. I know what I saw and heard, and no amount of cussing, name calling, and temper tantrums will convince me differently.

I too, was in Moline the other night. Def Leppard is definately who the crowd came to see. I said in my review that it was probably 70%-30% for DL. That said, both bands were very good. Having the singer that made the songs popular just gives DL a tremendous advantage. Even if JSS has a better voice, more range, etc., he is singing songs SOMEONE ELSE made popular and Joe Elliott still has enough in the tank that you can't overcome that. Some of you are comparing apples and oranges. Comparing these two bands is really not possible. You have DL, with their one and only singer and Journey, with their second since Perry. DL sounds more like the songs originally sounded. Personally, that's what I want to hear. HOWEVER, I really don't care how JSS sounds on the Perry-era cuts. He's about the FUTURE, not the PAST. As for lipping, canned vocals and canned guitars, I heard none of that. Viv and Phil were awesome and Joe, who didn't sound perfect the entire show, sounded great through the majority of it. As customers, we have the right to leave at anytime during the show. However, using the fact that you did leave during the show doesn't make the band you prefer any better than the other. It just shows that you paid for two acts and are satisfied just seeing one. I saw two great bands on top of their game Friday in Moline.

[conversationpc]

Plus, you talk about Neal's cover band. What's with DL's shitty cover album. That's a real turd. Nobody want's to hear that cover song horse shit. Next thing DL will come out with is a Christmas cd of old Rudolf the Rednosed fuck'in Reindeer songs. That will go over well too!!!!!!!

[MartyMoffatt]

Hey Marty...

I did mention in my post that success usually has a lot more to do with "The right people steering the ship" (i.e. management) than pure talent. Honestly, I don't consider myself a huge fan of Aerosmith or Bon Jovi and think almost anyone I've ever heard has a better singing voice than Mick Jagger! That was really my point. I'll take Journey music over any of the three bands I mentioned, ANY day!

Yes you did and I agree entirely

In terms of Steve Perry being a "household name" here, I don't think he really ever became a household name in this country, either. He did have some commercial success on his own without Journey, but, I don't know that a lot of non-Journey fans really even knew that Perry was the lead singer of Journey. Some people just don't make connections like that. I'll give you a classic example of that...I was driving down the street with my brother-in-law playing a Don Henley CD many years back. He says to me "Hey, this Henley guy sounds a lot like the guy who used to be in The Eagles". That story sort of illustrates the point that most guys who are part of a band have VERY anonymous names with most fans.

Well I hate to admit it, but until my wife put me right a few years ago, I didn't know either. I've never really followed the Eagles (although I did go to see them a couple of months ago).

I think when the replacement lead singer sounds vastly different than the sound most fans have become accustomed to (and for the record, I am not suggesting that is the case with Journey...I still need to hear a CD before making that decision), that's when it becomes a real issue for said band and when they start to lose their legions of loyal fans.

I'm not sure I agree here. I really don't want to labour the point about the 'other' bands, but in several cases the vocals were significantly changed with the new singer. Bruce Dickinson sounds very very different from the gruff vocals of Paul Di'Anno, but Bruce's voice became the signature sound for Iron Maiden. RJD's very eloquent vocal style is very different from Ozzy's. Now, maybe RJD era Black Sabbath didn't enjoy the commercial success of earlier, but then Black Sabbath were already in decline with Ozzy when Dio took over. Dio however added a quality of vocal that far surpassed anything Ozzy was capable of and the albums he made with Bllack Sabbath are among my favourites. In both cases, and many others they lost some fans but gained others. Its the nature of music.

Perhaps the biggest example is David Coverdale. When he took over Deep Purple from Ian Gillan in 1974 Purple were probably one of the top two or three rock bands in the WORLD. Coverdale sounds nothing like Ian Gillan, but because his voice had its own quality, fans took to him. After leaving Purple a few years later, he went from strength to strength with numerous chart hits in the 80's in his own band Whitesnake. He continues to enjoy success, although not to the same level - for reasons we've already discussed. Ian Gillan eventually returned to Deep Purple as the original vocalist and while they still have a little commercial success, he is a joke among vocalists nowadays and the band are a shadow of what they were. Its a shame, because in the early 70's he had the smoothest, silkiest voice around at the time. Ticket sales for Deep Purple are based as much on nostalgia as anything new the band is doing.

To some extent that has also been true for Journey. However, Journey currently have a spark that might see them genuinely surprise a few people.

Marty

[JrnyScarab]

Ticket sales for Deep Purple are based as much on nostalgia as anything new the band is doing.



Marty

I'm not so sure of that Marty. I believe the new Deep Purple CD "Rapture Of The Deep" has sold over 1 million copies worldwide. 1 million copies sold of any CD for a band with almost no U.S. fan base nowadays is pretty good. Especially for an old band like Purple. They still have quite a worldwide following and do play their new music live as well as the old stuff.

[MartyMoffatt]

I'm not so sure of that Marty. I believe the new Deep Purple CD "Rapture Of The Deep" has sold over 1 million copies worldwide. 1 million copies sold of any CD for a band with almost no U.S. fan base nowadays is pretty good. Especially for an old band like Purple. They still have quite a worldwide following and do play their new music live as well as the old stuff.

I didn't know that - that's good. I still think they suck live though, the last couple of times I've seen them they looked and sounded like they were just going through the motions. And at Monsters of Rock they were completely overshadowed by Journey's performance.

Marty

[JrnyScarab]

I'm not so sure of that Marty. I believe the new Deep Purple CD "Rapture Of The Deep" has sold over 1 million copies worldwide. 1 million copies sold of any CD for a band with almost no U.S. fan base nowadays is pretty good. Especially for an old band like Purple. They still have quite a worldwide following and do play their new music live as well as the old stuff.

I didn't know that - that's good. I still think they suck live though, the last couple of times I've seen them they looked and sounded like they were just going through the motions. And at Monsters of Rock they were completely overshadowed by Journey's performance.

Marty

Well, I will admit that Ian Gillan's voice isn't what it used to be. I don't think they are in it only for the money though. They mention in interviews about still being on the road at their ages and how they wouldn't be torturing themselves unless they really loved it. I think most of them are in their 60's and it must be tough to maintain endless energy at their ages.

[ArnelRox]

but their frontmen weren't as well known or as closely associated with their signature sound as Steve Perry was to Journey. What I meant by household name was that anyone who listened to top 40 radio in the early to mid '80s knew that Steve Perry was the vocal force of Journey. Especially after Street Talk was released and the We Are The World Event.

Sorry Sherrie but lots of people don't know who Steve Perry is. Yeah I know. It's as much a shock to me as to u. I've had friends who were big fans of Foreigner & Styx, knew the lead singers, could name & sing several hit tunes, but altho they recognized the name "Journey" couldn't remember any songs. Then, when I sang Faithfully & Open Arms, they went oh yeah, I like them too. When I mentioned Steve Perry, they said who's he? The biggest shock of all was that they remembered Oh Sherrie as a Journey song & that was the song by "Journey" they remembered most. They were very shocked when I said that was a Steve Perry solo song. Oh well.

[Voyager]

Not sure I entirely agree with this. AC/DC did it (Brian Johnson replacing Bon Scott). Iron Maiden did it (Bruce Dickinson replacing Paul Di'Anno). Deep Purple did it (David Coverdale replacing Ian Gillan). Black Sabbath did it (Ronnie James Dio replacing Ozzy). Rainbow did it (Graham Bonnet replacing RJD). There are at least a dozen other bands I could mention who have gone on to achieve at least the same level of success with a replacement singer, so it is possible.

Very good points Marty! There have obviously been bands who have made a successful transition from one lead singer to another. When I say successful, I mean bands like Van Halen, Deep Purple, AC/DC, and Black Sabbath who went from one record-selling singer to another record-selling singer. The bands who weren't selling albums before the switch don't really count (i.e. Journey before Steve Perry).

In a way, maybe Journey should have learned the lesson due to their not selling any albums to speak of before or after Perry. However, they have made a LOT of money playing to sold-out shows since 1998 when Perry left, so I would bet that none of them have any regrets for continuing on without Perry. The fact is, Journey hasn't made a successful transition from one record-selling singer to another record-selling singer. This means that the majority of Journey's concertgoers are people who want to re-live the Perry/Journey experience again. That audience includes myself - I have seen Journey three times with Augeri and once with JSS. I only saw Journey once with Steve Perry - and the memory of that one show and the CDs I own with Perry on vocals are the reasons why I continue to support the band.

[Voyager]

We all know the only reason DL has added the pyro and fireto their on this current leg of the tour is because they need more fake shit to sucker their fans.

Plus, you talk about Neal's cover band. What's with DL's shitty cover album. That's a real turd. Nobody want's to hear that cover song horse shit. Next thing DL will come out with is a Christmas cd of old Rudolf the Rednosed fuck'in Reindeer songs. That will go over well too!!!!!!!

Sorry to rain on your parade dude, but I went to Moline the other night for the main reason of seeing JSS with Journey. I wasn't expecting anything from Def Leppard at all - I was actually planning to leave after Journey played. I was disappointed that Journey's show was somewhat mediocre that night, so I decided to stay and see Def Leppard. To my surprise, they put on a kick-ass rock show that I will remember as one of the best I've ever seen - and I have seen hundreds of good rock shows.

You can say whatever you want about Def Leppard, but they didn't need any "fake shit" to prove themselves as one of the best acts on the road today. As a hardcore Journey fan, I am disappointed to inform you that they kicked Journey's ass at this show. It may have been a different story when you saw them - because every band has their "on" and "off" nights. But you could poll anyone who saw the show that I saw in Moline, Illinois, and they would tell you - Def Leppard kicked major ass that night, and Journey paled in comparison.

Maybe the newness of JSS has worn off now, and Journey is facing the hard reality that it lost its soul when Steve Perry left. All of the members of Journey are superb performers and musicians - including JSS. But the chemistry that fueled the sales of over 75-million albums left when Perry was replaced. Augeri and JSS never sold any albums to speak of before or after they joined Journey. It's the legacy of the Perry/Journey years that continues to fuel the sales of Journey concert tickets. People like myself want to go back and re-live that high one more time, but it's just not there anymore like it was in the Perry years. My wife says the same thing. She was not impressed by the Augeri-Journey or the JSS-Journey.

P.S. - If you'll notice, I didn't need to stoop to character assaults and profanity to prove my point. I don't need to - the music did the talking itself without my help. I know what I saw and heard, and no amount of cussing, name calling, and temper tantrums will convince me differently.

I too, was in Moline the other night. Def Leppard is definately who the crowd came to see. I said in my review that it was probably 70%-30% for DL. That said, both bands were very good. Having the singer that made the songs popular just gives DL a tremendous advantage. Even if JSS has a better voice, more range, etc., he is singing songs SOMEONE ELSE made popular and Joe Elliott still has enough in the tank that you can't overcome that. Some of you are comparing apples and oranges. Comparing these two bands is really not possible. You have DL, with their one and only singer and Journey, with their second since Perry. DL sounds more like the songs originally sounded. Personally, that's what I want to hear. HOWEVER, I really don't care how JSS sounds on the Perry-era cuts. He's about the FUTURE, not the PAST. As for lipping, canned vocals and canned guitars, I heard none of that. Viv and Phil were awesome and Joe, who didn't sound perfect the entire show, sounded great through the majority of it. As customers, we have the right to leave at anytime during the show. However, using the fact that you did leave during the show doesn't make the band you prefer any better than the other. It just shows that you paid for two acts and are satisfied just seeing one. I saw two great bands on top of their game Friday in Moline.

Correction: I didn't leave during Def Leppard - I said I was planning to. That was before I heard them kicking major ass!!! I stayed for the entire show, and would have stayed longer if they would have continued playing. Def Leppard scored some big points in my book. I would go see them again next week if I could.

As far as Journey goes, I think I have seen them enough without Perry now. Three shows with Augeri and one with JSS is enough for me. I'll have to just get by with my live Journey CDs with Perry on them for now.

[donnaplease]

In a way, maybe Journey should have learned the lesson due to their not selling any albums to speak of before or after Perry. However, they have made a LOT of money playing to sold-out shows since 1998 when Perry left, so I would bet that none of them have any regrets for continuing on without Perry. The fact is, Journey hasn't made a successful transition from one record-selling singer to another record-selling singer. This means that the majority of Journey's concertgoers are people who want to re-live the Perry/Journey experience again. That audience includes myself - I have seen Journey three times with Augeri and once with JSS. I only saw Journey once with Steve Perry - and the memory of that one show and the CDs I own with Perry on vocals are the reasons why I continue to support the band.

Good post!

[AR]

Correction: I didn't leave during Def Leppard - I said I was planning to. That was before I heard them kicking major ass!!! I stayed for the entire show, and would have stayed longer if they would have continued playing. Def Leppard scored some big points in my book. I would go see them again next week if I could.

I plan on walking out on them again on November 10th. Prefereably after puking on someone when "Make Love Like a Man" is played. I at least have to be out of there before that black hole "Rocket" is played with it's 5 minute instrumental section that sucks the life force out of anyone unfortunate enough to be within earshot.

[ArnelRox]

the memory of that one show and the CDs I own with Perry on vocals are the reasons why I continue to support the band.

With the exception of 2 people here I know of & probably a few I don't know, that's the reason the majority of people continue to support the band, really.

When it all comes down to it, most of us became fans b/c of Perry & we continue to give the band a chance b/c of our love for the music. Perry delighted us w/his voice, Neal thrilled us w/his guitar playing, Cain co-wrote the songs & played the piano, & Smitty drummed us into oblivion. Now Deen does the drumming almost as well & Jeff sings those songs for us & will hopefully come up w/a few more to take us into the future w/the band we love.

[Blueskies]

the memory of that one show and the CDs I own with Perry on vocals are the reasons why I continue to support the band.

With the exception of 2 people here I know of & probably a few I don't know, that's the reason the majority of people continue to support the band, really.

When it all comes down to it, most of us became fans b/c of Perry & we continue to give the band a chance b/c of our love for the music. Perry delighted us w/his voice, Neal thrilled us w/his guitar playing, Cain co-wrote the songs & played the piano, & Smitty drummed us into oblivion. Now Deen does the drumming almost as well & Jeff sings those songs for us & will hopefully come up w/a few more to take us into the future w/the band we love.

Great post JR!

[DEF_LEPPARD_CANADA]

Arrival was the best Album they could have done without perry and it bombed. That whole CD was awesome.

"Arrival" was strong, but Journey can do better.
Some of "Arrival" was reworked Bad English left-overs and some was written by outside Nashville writers.


The next album will be done totally in-house and will be the best thing they've done since the 80's.
You heard it here first!

I hope so, and i would welcome a strong New JSS/Journey CD....but it wont sell big at all. Unless they give it away Free at the shows....like last time. Great Idea IMO.

[Voyager]

Correction: I didn't leave during Def Leppard - I said I was planning to. That was before I heard them kicking major ass!!! I stayed for the entire show, and would have stayed longer if they would have continued playing. Def Leppard scored some big points in my book. I would go see them again next week if I could.

I plan on walking out on them again on November 10th. Prefereably after puking on someone when "Make Love Like a Man" is played. I at least have to be out of there before that black hole "Rocket" is played with it's 5 minute instrumental section that sucks the life force out of anyone unfortunate enough to be within earshot.

AR,

That's okay AR, I understand. I will continue to read your posts, if for no other reason because of that killer photo in your signature.

[AR]

That's okay AR, I understand. I will continue to read your posts, if for no other reason because of that killer photo in your signature.

There are other photos I plan on moving in and out of the signature. Stay tuned.

Just for the record I have seen Def Leppard 8 times. 5 of the shows I really liked. Just not this tour and that has a lot to do with the setlist.

[Voyager]

Just for the record I have seen Def Leppard 8 times. 5 of the shows I really liked. Just not this tour and that has a lot to do with the setlist.

Ahhh... now I understand even more. Once you've seen a band at the top of their game, it's hard to be entertained by anything less. I personally have only seen DL one time before the recent Moline show, and it was on an "off" night. So I was pleasantly surprised by what I saw in Moline. Believe it or not, I actually even enjoyed the three cover songs they played from "Yeah!" (which I do not own, and have never heard before).

[donnaplease]

I hope so, and i would welcome a strong New JSS/Journey CD....but it wont sell big at all. Unless they give it away Free at the shows....like last time. Great Idea IMO.

It won't sell big at all...unless they give it away free.

???????????????????????????????????????????

[Voyager]

I plan on walking out on them again on November 10th. Prefereably after puking on someone when "Make Love Like a Man" is played.

Hey, at least they're not playing "Make Love To A Man" - LOL!!!

(No offense meant to the gay members of the forum.)

[dcvader]

Arrival was the best Album they could have done without perry and it bombed. That whole CD was awesome.

"Arrival" was strong, but Journey can do better.
Some of "Arrival" was reworked Bad English left-overs and some was written by outside Nashville writers.


The next album will be done totally in-house and will be the best thing they've done since the 80's.
You heard it here first!

I hope so, and i would welcome a strong New JSS/Journey CD....but it wont sell big at all. Unless they give it away Free at the shows....like last time. Great Idea IMO.

We shall see what happens with the new Journey cd. Just continue waiting for DL to do that Christmas Cover's cd. Since they have no more original ground to cover. I'm sure they won't be able to give that fucker away. Maybe they could tour that shit with Martina McBride's christmas show. Martina would probably blow them off the stage too.

[Chevypv]

I plan on walking out on them again on November 10th. Prefereably after puking on someone when "Make Love Like a Man" is played.

Hey, at least they're not playing "Make Love To A Man" - LOL!!!

(No offense meant to the gay members of the forum.)

We have those??

[ArnelRox]

(No offense meant to the gay members of the forum.)

We have those?? [/quote]

They lurk.

[ohsherrie]

but their frontmen weren't as well known or as closely associated with their signature sound as Steve Perry was to Journey. What I meant by household name was that anyone who listened to top 40 radio in the early to mid '80s knew that Steve Perry was the vocal force of Journey. Especially after Street Talk was released and the We Are The World Event.

Sorry Sherrie but lots of people don't know who Steve Perry is. Yeah I know. It's as much a shock to me as to u. I've had friends who were big fans of Foreigner & Styx, knew the lead singers, could name & sing several hit tunes, but altho they recognized the name "Journey" couldn't remember any songs. Then, when I sang Faithfully & Open Arms, they went oh yeah, I like them too. When I mentioned Steve Perry, they said who's he? The biggest shock of all was that they remembered Oh Sherrie as a Journey song & that was the song by "Journey" they remembered most. They were very shocked when I said that was a Steve Perry solo song. Oh well.

No problem JRox. I've had pretty much the opposite experience though. Maybe it's a regional thing but for most people who I've talked to about it Journey was just the band that Steve Perry sang with. I'm not saying that's the way it should be, only that it's the experience I've had. I've said here before that the radio DJs here usually introduced or identified Journey songs as "Steve Perry and Journey". That's why I say it may be a regional thing.

[DEF_LEPPARD_CANADA]

The Truth hurts, hanging onto the past is better sometimes...especially when the future is a Neal Schon Cover Band.

[Granny]

the memory of that one show and the CDs I own with Perry on vocals are the reasons why I continue to support the band.

With the exception of 2 people here I know of & probably a few I don't know, that's the reason the majority of people continue to support the band, really.

When it all comes down to it, most of us became fans b/c of Perry & we continue to give the band a chance b/c of our love for the music. Perry delighted us w/his voice, Neal thrilled us w/his guitar playing, Cain co-wrote the songs & played the piano, & Smitty drummed us into oblivion. Now Deen does the drumming almost as well & Jeff sings those songs for us & will hopefully come up w/a few more to take us into the future w/the band we love.

JRox-what a great post and so very very very true..

[r@y]

The Truth hurts, hanging onto the past is better sometimes...especially when the future is a Neal Schon Cover Band.

Dude, what REALLY is your problem here..???

It's actually very simple, if you dont like what you read in here, then DON'T..!

Just stay the fuck away...that too damn difficult for ya..?

And how is it that some of you here are fans of a rock band and don't swear, cuss or use foul language...? Amazing...


Ray

[A Fire Inside]

The Truth hurts, hanging onto the past is better sometimes...especially when the future is a Neal Schon Cover Band.

Sorry, what Neal Schon songs are Journey covering now? I haven't been to a show since this summer, please fill me in.

[Clasicrockldy]

The Truth hurts, hanging onto the past is better sometimes...especially when the future is a Neal Schon Cover Band.

Sorry, what Neal Schon songs are Journey covering now? I haven't been to a show since this summer, please fill me in.

Fire, they are trying to put a log on another flame war. I would just ignore them. I guess not much is going on at the DL board, so they have to come here and try to start shit.

[ArnelRox]

The Truth hurts, hanging onto the past is better sometimes...especially when the future is a Neal Schon Cover Band.

Sorry, what Neal Schon songs are Journey covering now? I haven't been to a show since this summer, please fill me in.

Man did I miss No More Lies, bummer. (J/K)

[A Fire Inside]

Fire, they are trying to put a log on another flame war. I would just ignore them. I guess not much is going on at the DL board, so they have to come here and try to start shit.

I know, I'm being a smart-ass.