Too Many Critics

[*Laura]

I really don't think it has as much to do with drugs as it does with their youth and creative energy those artists had when they were young. I think they could've done even better had their minds been clear and free from that crap. A lot of artists seems to lose that hunger when they age.

I don't know about that...Jimi Hendrix comes to my mind.I remember reading that if he didn't had his dose of heroin or LSD,he didn't even consider going up on stage.

[conversationpc]

I really don't think it has as much to do with drugs as it does with their youth and creative energy those artists had when they were young. I think they could've done even better had their minds been clear and free from that crap. A lot of artists seems to lose that hunger when they age.

I don't know about that...Jimi Hendrix comes to my mind.I remember reading that if he didn't had his dose of heroin or LSD,he didn't even consider going up on stage.

Sorry to say this, but what an idiot. Great guitarist and I love a lot of his songs but that's just moronic.

I remember an interview with Ted Nugent where he said that Hendrix offered him some drugs at one point and he turned him down. Hendrix thought he was a real square or something to that effect. Looks like Uncle Ted had the right idea.

[yulog]

See, this board isn't a waste of time--it's educational. At least it's the correct form of 'too' in the heading. That's one of my pet peeves.

My biggest pet peeve is "should of", "could of" & "would of", instead of "should have", "could have" & "would have". That one drives me nuts. Next up is "their" when it should be "they're".

I don't like when people use "affect" instead of "effect" and vice versa.

And there is no such word as "irregardless".

As Steve Martin said, "Some people have a way with words, and others.... um.... I don't know.... no have way, I guess."

Yeah!, and i dont like when the Nurse comes in and gives you an enema and then takes you straight to X-ray.......OOPS!!

[Enigma869]

That's one of my pet peeves. I hate seeing otherwise well spoken people use that double negative.

Affect and effect can be tricky and in some cases when used as a verb can at times seem almost interchangable. Affect as a verb is usually applied when something has a more direct effect(noun) on a specific condition. I most common usage you're probably going to be right with effect.

Example of verb usage: The epidemic effected the whole nation but the resulting paralysis affected the patient's legs.

When used a nouns they're not at all the same.



You're right JRox, yours, hers, theirs, and ours, are possessive pronouns just like his. No apostrophes.


On the topic of the thread I agree with Dave and Fred.

Good lord...

I scored an 800 on the English portion of my SAT's back in the day, and this is making my head hurt!!!!!


John from Boston

p.s. For what it's worth, I do think otherwise intelligent and articulate people are sometimes guilty of simply typing too (here's another word that can drive you nuts!) quickly! I know that sometimes my brain doesn't always keep up with the speed of my fingers! Okay...back to original topic!

[*Laura]

I really don't think it has as much to do with drugs as it does with their youth and creative energy those artists had when they were young. I think they could've done even better had their minds been clear and free from that crap. A lot of artists seems to lose that hunger when they age.

I don't know about that...Jimi Hendrix comes to my mind.I remember reading that if he didn't had his dose of heroin or LSD,he didn't even consider going up on stage.

Sorry to say this, but what an idiot. Great guitarist and I love a lot of his songs but that's just moronic.

Yes,I know what you mean...It is sad and puzzling at the same time.I can't help but wonder if maybe Hendrix was in somekind of a creative blackout without that stuff in his blood.

A lot of the big names from that era admitted that drugs were enhancing all their perceptions,skills,creativity,everything.
Crazy,because some of them needed more and more...Speaking of Hendrix,it seems he ended up having drugs worth something like 30 thousand $ per week.

But then,it's a known fact...Geniuses are nuts.

[Monker]

I think people are too harsh sometimes when discussing the merits or drawbacks of certain Journey songs. I think you should keep in mind that songwriters are artists and just as a painter chooses what their subject matter will be for a painting and how they want to portray it, a songwriter is doing the same. When painting a picture or writing a song, it comes from that artists heart and mind. They are thinking about their own experiences and feelings, drawing from it, so the message they portray in song paints a picture that is personal to them, coming from inside at the time. Then it's sometimes created and put out to share with the world. It's too easy to sit back in judgement of someone else's art, everyone seems to want to be a critic, yet don't create themselves. I think some respect should be afforded to the songwriter and musicians for the fact that the material is or was personal to them. Sure there are some songs I prefer to listen to than others, but I'm not going to sit around and armchair quarterback their decision to put it out there....that takes guts. I also won't condemn them for what they felt and expressed. I'll still listen and take in what the artist was trying to convey and I'll cherish the ones I love and give thanks that they were created and shared with us all. In the end there are really no bad songs....just some you don't like or can't relate to. It wasn't meant for you then.....move on to the ones that speak to you and enjoy the music.
Just my 2 cents.

This reminded me of something that happened to me at work years ago.

A guy brought in this small chair which he hand made for his grandaughter. It was a small chair made of cherry wood all finshed and it looked really. I told him it looked really nice. I looked a bit closer and told him this arm looked a tiny bit shorter then that arm...and I think I would like it even more if the legs were longer.

A coworker behind us heard us talking and sorta went off with, "How can you say that to him? That chair is beautiful!"

Then the guy who MADE THE CHAIR said, "What do you mean? He said he liked it...We're just talking about how it could have been even better. There's nothing wrong with that...maybe I'll take his suggestions next time." And, he wasn't very happy WITH HER because we were having a good honest conversation about what he made...and not just oo'ing and ah'ing about it.

Nothing is perfect. "Art" is subjective. Even what one person considers art may not be 'art' to someone else. If artists do not want, or can not handle, people saying what they DO NOT like about their art, then they should hang it in their basements, or keep their recordings in their underwear drawer.

I think MOST artists expect some critique and MOST can accept it for what it is. The whiners who do not want to read it or accept that other do not appreciate it as much as they do are the ones who need a new understanding about things. They need to understand that their opinion is not definitive or more important then anybody elses.

[Monker]

Just speaking from an artist standpoint for a minute. The buying public has a right to complain about product, but I was speaking from where I'm coming from. I don't look at it as a "product" at the time of making a picture. If I did it would kill creativity and not be any good, imo. Inspiration has to come from something within you. If just selling a product and making money are the only factor's for production, then that can be seen and felt, and the end result is not good.....so I mis-spoke....there are plenty of bad song's out there......made for the wrong reason's.

Also, I agree with the above.

At the same time, taking that inspriation that is within you and expressing it is a skill that needs to be honed. You are unable to do that completely on your own. You NEED some level of criticism to know your strengths AND the weaknesses you need to improve upon.

Didn't someone say, "Being surrounded by yes-men is a dangerous thing"?

[ohsherrie]

That's one of my pet peeves. I hate seeing otherwise well spoken people use that double negative.

Affect and effect can be tricky and in some cases when used as a verb can at times seem almost interchangable. Affect as a verb is usually applied when something has a more direct effect(noun) on a specific condition. I most common usage you're probably going to be right with effect.

Example of verb usage: The epidemic effected the whole nation but the resulting paralysis affected the patient's legs.

When used a nouns they're not at all the same.



You're right JRox, yours, hers, theirs, and ours, are possessive pronouns just like his. No apostrophes.


On the topic of the thread I agree with Dave and Fred.

Good lord...

I scored an 800 on the English portion of my SAT's back in the day, and this is making my head hurt!!!!!


John from Boston

p.s. For what it's worth, I do think otherwise intelligent and articulate people are sometimes guilty of simply typing too (here's another word that can drive you nuts!) quickly! I know that sometimes my brain doesn't always keep up with the speed of my fingers! Okay...back to original topic!

I was really just having fun with the "grammar police" John. I certainly don't type everything properly on here. I don't even really try to do so.

[Blueskies]

Just speaking from an artist standpoint for a minute. The buying public has a right to complain about product, but I was speaking from where I'm coming from. I don't look at it as a "product" at the time of making a picture. If I did it would kill creativity and not be any good, imo. Inspiration has to come from something within you. If just selling a product and making money are the only factor's for production, then that can be seen and felt, and the end result is not good.....so I mis-spoke....there are plenty of bad song's out there......made for the wrong reason's.

Also, I agree with the above.

At the same time, taking that inspriation that is within you and expressing it is a skill that needs to be honed. You are unable to do that completely on your own. You NEED some level of criticism to know your strengths AND the weaknesses you need to improve upon.

Didn't someone say, "Being surrounded by yes-men is a dangerous thing"?

good posts and good points, Monker. When I do a piece I ask someone's opinion that I know will give an honest one.....I want to hear some criticism or I'll become stagnent and not try to do the best work I can. If it's not good I want to know. My college art teacher was one who pulled no punchs....very hard to please and say a good word.....made me strive all the harder because when he did give praise you knew you had raised your game.....hearing the praise was golden because of the pushing forward with the criticism.

[Monker]

Just speaking from an artist standpoint for a minute. The buying public has a right to complain about product, but I was speaking from where I'm coming from. I don't look at it as a "product" at the time of making a picture. If I did it would kill creativity and not be any good, imo. Inspiration has to come from something within you. If just selling a product and making money are the only factor's for production, then that can be seen and felt, and the end result is not good.....so I mis-spoke....there are plenty of bad song's out there......made for the wrong reason's.

Also, I agree with the above.

At the same time, taking that inspriation that is within you and expressing it is a skill that needs to be honed. You are unable to do that completely on your own. You NEED some level of criticism to know your strengths AND the weaknesses you need to improve upon.

Didn't someone say, "Being surrounded by yes-men is a dangerous thing"?

good posts and good points, Monker. When I do a piece I ask someone's opinion that I know will give an honest one.....I want to hear some criticism or I'll become stagnent and not try to do the best work I can. If it's not good I want to know. My college art teacher was one who pulled no punchs....very hard to please and say a good word.....made me strive all the harder because when he did give praise you knew you had raised your game.....hearing the praise was golden because of the pushing forward with the criticism.

Thank you...that's exactly what I was trying to say. There is a place for critique and it's not always from a perspective of something being 'bad'...but from the perspective that something could be better.

[larryfromnextdoor]

umm.. monker i think you hit it home on that one...agreed..

[ArnelRox]

This reminded me of something that happened to me at work years ago.

Wait...Monker has a job? He's employable?

[Blueskies]

Alhough I agree with Monkers points that an artist needs the criticism to hone their craft.......it must be pointed out that if criticism is ALL someone receives, then it can be detremental. A good teacher knows how to balance it out....that a mixture of criticism and praise ( when earned ) is the best way to motivate someone. Criticise someone when there are flaws so they are aware of them and can work on improving. Praise when the work is good and done well. If someone is only put down and criticised all the time and never hear a positive, they will soon withdraw and lose confidence that they can do it at all. So there is more to it then criticism alone. Artist's, and everyone for that matter, need a good support system of family, friends, or at least one special person that loves and cares about them, that believe in them and are there for them......helping them with the strength of support, through good and bad. Without the love and support of at least one other person, it can be very difficult for someone to achieve and do their best work. We need others to help motivate and inspire us. JSS (as so many others have) pointed this out in an interview. They give thanks to the people that have been there for them, that inspire and motivate them,....with their love, support, praise, encouragement,.....and yes...also their criticism.

[NealIsGod]

This reminded me of something that happened to me at work years ago.

Wait...Monker has a job? He's employable?

Yeah, you never saw the pic?

[ArnelRox]

Alhough I agree with Monkers points that an artist needs the criticism to hone their craft.......it must be pointed out that if criticism is ALL someone receives, then it can be detremental. A good teacher knows how to balance it out....that a mixture of criticism and praise ( when earned ) is the best way to motivate someone. Criticise someone when there are flaws so they are aware of them and can work on improving. Praise when the work is good and done well. If someone is only put down and criticised all the time and never hear a positive, they will soon withdraw and lose confidence that they can do it at all. So there is more to it then criticism alone. Artist's, and everyone for that matter, need a good support system of family, friends, or at least one special person that loves and cares about them, that believe in them and are there for them......helping them with the strength of support, through good and bad. Without the love and support of at least one other person, it can be very difficult for someone to achieve and do their best work. We need others to help motivate and inspire us. JSS (as so many others have) pointed this out in an interview. They give thanks to the people that have been there for them, that inspire and motivate them,....with their love, support, praise, encouragement,.....and yes...also their criticism.

Damn only one wrongly placed apostrophe in the whole darn thing (artist's). Have we been getting to u girl?

[Blueskies]

Alhough I agree with Monkers points that an artist needs the criticism to hone their craft.......it must be pointed out that if criticism is ALL someone receives, then it can be detremental. A good teacher knows how to balance it out....that a mixture of criticism and praise ( when earned ) is the best way to motivate someone. Criticise someone when there are flaws so they are aware of them and can work on improving. Praise when the work is good and done well. If someone is only put down and criticised all the time and never hear a positive, they will soon withdraw and lose confidence that they can do it at all. So there is more to it then criticism alone. Artist's, and everyone for that matter, need a good support system of family, friends, or at least one special person that loves and cares about them, that believe in them and are there for them......helping them with the strength of support, through good and bad. Without the love and support of at least one other person, it can be very difficult for someone to achieve and do their best work. We need others to help motivate and inspire us. JSS (as so many others have) pointed this out in an interview. They give thanks to the people that have been there for them, that inspire and motivate them,....with their love, support, praise, encouragement,.....and yes...also their criticism.

Damn only one wrongly placed apostrophe in the whole darn thing (artist's). Have we been getting to u girl?

a little criticism works?

[MartyMoffatt]

That's one of my pet peeves. I hate seeing otherwise well spoken people use that double negative.

I agree. Probably the most glaring example of this is in the Whitesnake song "Ain't No Love In The Heart Of The City". David Coverdale's an intelligent guy and should know better. I like the song but the lyrics really grate.

Another grammatical mistake infamous in the media is the old Split Infinitive. Many people insist Captain Kirk really should have said "To go boldly....". However, experts at the Oxford English Dictionary have now declared that split infinitives like "To boldly go..." are actually now allowed, because the Latin that these rules were based on is not comparable to modern English. It just shows that English is a living language and rules sometimes have to be adapted.

Marty

[yulog]

This reminded me of something that happened to me at work years ago.

Wait...Monker has a job? He's employable?

Yeah, you never saw the pic?

[ArnelRox]

This reminded me of something that happened to me at work years ago.

Wait...Monker has a job? He's employable?

Yeah, you never saw the pic?

I don't get it. Who's Monker?

Oh wait, a fudgepacker. Ahhhhh! Sorry dumb blonde at the pc here.

[ohsherrie]

That's one of my pet peeves. I hate seeing otherwise well spoken people use that double negative.

I agree. Probably the most glaring example of this is in the Whitesnake song "Ain't No Love In The Heart Of The City". David Coverdale's an intelligent guy and should know better. I like the song but the lyrics really grate.

Another grammatical mistake infamous in the media is the old Split Infinitive. Many people insist Captain Kirk really should have said "To go boldly....". However, experts at the Oxford English Dictionary have now declared that split infinitives like "To boldly go..." are actually now allowed, because the Latin that these rules were based on is not comparable to modern English. It just shows that English is a living language and rules sometimes have to be adapted.

Marty

I never realized there was a controversy about "to boldly go". I'm a trekkie(original series only) as anyone with my email addy knows and that opening monologue is still thrilling to me. In fact, anything Captain Kirk says is OK with me.

My biggest pet peeve at this time in spoken English is people who say nukuler rather than nuclear.

[ArnelRox]

My biggest pet peeve at this time in spoken English is people who say nukuler rather than nuclear.

Yeah like the dumbass President.

[ohsherrie]

My biggest pet peeve at this time in spoken English is people who say nukuler rather than nuclear.

Yeah like the dumbass President.

There ya go. Hearing him say that word is worse than nails on a chalkboard to me.

[ArnelRox]

My biggest pet peeve at this time in spoken English is people who say nukuler rather than nuclear.

Yeah like the dumbass President.

There ya go. Hearing him say that word is worse than nails on a chalkboard to me.

Then again, there aren't too many words he pronounces correctly are there? He doesn't even know the correct name of the country he went to war with. He says "EYE-rack" insteas of "ear-ahck". Dumbass. At least I live in a country where I can say that tho. Could be worse!

[larryfromnextdoor]

you folks would hate the Texas lingo then.. ill ask a guy if he can work saturday and he will say," well, i dont know if i can't (rhymes with ain't)"... i'll ask, does that mean yes or no?

[Blueskies]

you folks would hate the Texas lingo then.. ill ask a guy if he can work saturday and he will say," well, i dont know if i can't (rhymes with ain't)"... i'll ask, does that mean yes or no?

lmao!

[joybringer1]

I agree. Probably the most glaring example of this is in the Whitesnake song "Ain't No Love In The Heart Of The City". David Coverdale's an intelligent guy and should know better. I like the song but the lyrics really grate.


Marty

Have to exonerate DC here, Marty, he didn't write the song, it's an old blues song by Bobby "Blue" Bland which became a Whitesnake standard. I just wish some of the audience would get the words right - that bugs me every time!

But DC IS guilty of one of my pet hates (Journey Rox quoted my main one of "could of / should of" instead of "could have / should have") which is to use "I" when it should be "me". People often do it to try to sound more intelligent but it only shows their ignorance of grammar. You often hear something like "He came to see my friend and I". Noone would ever say "He came to see I" so why change me to I just because there's an "and" in front of it?

[ohsherrie]

you folks would hate the Texas lingo then.. ill ask a guy if he can work saturday and he will say," well, i dont know if i can't (rhymes with ain't)"... i'll ask, does that mean yes or no?

I sympathize with you completely Lar. I used to have to interpret employee lingo too. A lot of people around here use ain't to replace almost every negative contraction. Can't also sounds like cain't here. Haven't becomes ain't never.

I know it sounds mean to make fun of these colloquialisms, but damn, these people went to school, didn't they learn English?

(Guess you can tell this is another pet peeve for me. Hell, maybe I'm just a peevish person. )

[ohsherrie]

But DC IS guilty of one of my pet hates (Journey Rox quoted my main one of "could of / should of" instead of "could have / should have") which is to use "I" when it should be "me". People often do it to try to sound more intelligent but it only shows their ignorance of grammar. You often hear something like "He came to see my friend and I". Noone would ever say "He came to see I" so why change me to I just because there's an "and" in front of it?

There's that too.

Damn, we must be an extremely literate group of people. Maybe that's why we're Journey fans.

[larryfromnextdoor]

i went into a dairy queen one time and on the menu board they had ICE'D TEA.... does that mean the ice belongs to the tea? it was funny at the time..

[ohsherrie]

i went into a dairy queen one time and on the menu board they had ICE'D TEA.... does that mean the ice belongs to the tea? it was funny at the time..

No Lar, it means they don't know when to use apostrophes.