Stupid, boring, predictable Journey

[Monker]

What type venues outside of California will they occupy without another supporting act???

Without another big act with them, they draw 2,500 tops in almost every city in every state in the U.S.

That makes them a lounge act.

RIGHT NOW, I don't think that's true. I think they would average between 5000-10,000.

A couple tours from now, when everybody gets to see Journey is still a GH band and gets tired of the show, they will be in the same mode as Styx.

[Monker]

Just to correct this...

Perry replaced both Smith and Ross during writing session with drum machines and computers. ROR was the first album written without EVERYBODY being involved in the writing sessions...and the songs show that. A drum machine may not be playing on those songs, but for most of them, it may as well have been a machine.

[
PLEASEEEEEEEEEE.. Perry screwed the good Journey name by replacing SMITTY with a DAMN DRUM MACHINE back on ROR...

Rick

What drum machine? Larry Londin - a respected session musician - was the drummer on that album.

Yeah but Matthew, he was nowhere as creative as Smitty was in general and if you compare the few tunes that had a drum track created by Smith and all the others by Londin, the difference is HUGE and very noticeable. I would have loved to have heard what Smith would have provided for all the tracks on ROR. It might have even made a difference is sales.

[fred_journeyman]

Just to correct this...

Perry replaced both Smith and Ross during writing session with drum machines and computers. ROR was the first album written without EVERYBODY being involved in the writing sessions...and the songs show that. A drum machine may not be playing on those songs, but for most of them, it may as well have been a machine.

You're right. I was referring to the end result when they used an actual person to lay down the drum tracks. Who knows though...Londin's hands may have been tied when it came time to being creative. Maybe he was simply presented with "this is what we want, so replicate it."

[fred_journeyman]

A couple tours from now, when everybody gets to see Journey is still a GH band and gets tired of the show, they will be in the same mode as Styx.

Speaking of Styx Monker, how has their latest album gone over with the fans? And do they play any of it in concert?

[Monker]

Actually, I don't think this is quite true either.

At the time Slash was rumored to be involved with PlanetUS/Soul SirkUS, he was asked about it....and he had NO IDEA what he was being asked about. It almost seemed like a PR stunt to get the band attention. Maybe Andrew can comment on Slash's involvement...but it didn't seem like he was 'replaced' or was a 'replacement'. They already had Neal, why would they need Slash too?

Soul Sirkus was Neals way of trying to save face after 'Planet Whatever' crashed and burned. Slash moved on to make gold with Velvet, and Sammy joined David Lee.

The Sirkus was thrown together and treated like an UGLY RED HEADED STEPCHILD.

It was less than a side project!!!

This group could be 100% viable and make a name for itself.

I can't comprehend that hardly anyone else sees that.

Journey will ONLY exist for the masses being fronted by Steve Perry.

This group could exist and thrive but not as Journey. As Journey they will only exist as a group playing 20 year old Steve Perry led Journey songs. They are a lounge act now.

They dont have to be!!!

If your going to make crazy ass statements, try and get your timeline correct. At the time of the Planet US talks/plans/demos Slash was already involved with Velvet Revolver and was replaced by Joe Satriani. Sammy did not leave to tour with David, he left to tour with Van Halen. I guess Joe Satriani had to try and "save face" as you claim Neal did, since he was also left behind. Also, if Sammy had his way, Soul Sirkus would have been the openers on that VH tour, but good old Edward would have none of that. What a bunch of crap.

Also, Velvet Revolver's long term success is still to be seen. IMO todays kids will not support a band long enough for said group to become legendary (ie. Zeppelin, Journey, Van Halen, etc). The youth today just don't support bands for long carreers like we did when we were young. Also, the self-destructive nature of the members of Revlover has to be considered also. The band could go on for 4 or 5 releases, or be gone before even a 2nd release is out.

With proper promotion Soul Sirkus may have had some success. Would it have been lasting? I don't think so.

[Monker]

So, tell us Monker, what exactly do you expect from the upcoming interviews? Are you willing to say Dean is right on the mark right now?

I expect exactly what Fred said...nothing suprising.

No, I don't think Dean is 'right on the money'. I don't expect anything that will make me think Journey is about to "make waves" next year. I don't expect a bunch of band hatred to Augeri. In fact, I think it is more likely they will treat him with more 'respect' then Perry. I don't expect them to talk about being on a Rocky soundtrack or Deen dying of cancer a year or so ago either.

[Andrew]

Actually, I don't think this is quite true either.

At the time Slash was rumored to be involved with PlanetUS/Soul SirkUS, he was asked about it....and he had NO IDEA what he was being asked about. It almost seemed like a PR stunt to get the band attention. Maybe Andrew can comment on Slash's involvement...but it didn't seem like he was 'replaced' or was a 'replacement'. They already had Neal, why would they need Slash too?

From memory, they wanted a 2nd guitarist and Slash was the choice pick. They were in negotiaton, but when the news leaked or whateer...Slash got nervous and bailed. That's why Satriani was brough in.

Slash having no idea is BS, but at the same time he hadn't signed on the dotted line. Not the easiest dude to deal with...

[Crazie Scarab]

So, tell us Monker, what exactly do you expect from the upcoming interviews? Are you willing to say Dean is right on the mark right now?

I don't expect anything that will make me think Journey is about to "make waves" next year.

Flagged.

Thanks, Monker.

[Monker]

So, tell us Monker, what exactly do you expect from the upcoming interviews? Are you willing to say Dean is right on the mark right now?

I don't expect anything that will make me think Journey is about to "make waves" next year.

Flagged.

Thanks, Monker.

Even if it is said: they are signed back to Sony, release an album by the end of the year which features a duet with Kelly Clarkson, have a song and help score Peter Jackson's "The Hobbit", and Herbie returns as their manager -

I'm not going to believe they are going to make waves next year...because so much of the time what Journey says is going to happen - doesn't happen at all, or only a minute portion of what was originaly stated actually come true.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Either way, it makes for great reading.

I doubt it.

Of course you do.
Heaven forbid, ANYTHING even remotely associated with this band have any entertainment factor whatsoever!
You and Monker are two peas in a pod. Two career pessimists with an unjustified elitist attitude.
Why don't u retire to your den and enjoy an evening of reading Kafka and sipping on wine coolers.
Gray haired old buzzard.

[Monker]

Either way, it makes for great reading.

I doubt it.

Of course you do.
Heaven forbid, ANYTHING even remotely associated with this band have any entertainment factor whatsoever!
You and Monker are two peas in a pod. Two career pessimists with an unjustified elitist attitude.
Why don't u retire to your den and enjoy an evening of reading Kafka and sipping on wine coolers.
Gray haired old buzzard.

"elitist attitude"? What an absolutely assinine comment.

The "elitists" here are those who have gone about posting whatever they want and totaly disregard Andrew's wishes for how this forum should be used. They act as if their standing with Andrew and/or Journey makes them more important to this forum, or Journey fandom in general, then others here. They post without fear of any meaningful repercussions from Andrew because of the above 'elitist' beliefs.

I am the one who has said many times that we are ALL (meaning, ME INCLUDED) a bunch of peons on a Journey forum. I am the one who just made a post to Brian on BT saying that we are ALL VIEWED THE SAME WAY by Journey. I am the one who has for 15yrs said that there is NO SUCH THING as "hard core fan" - that you either a 'fan', or you are not...and no 'fan' is more important that anybody else.

So, get your head out of the sand and call out the REAL elitists on this forum - cuz I am FAR from being an 'elitist'.

Journey has made far too many bad decisions over the past three years for me to be optimistic about their future. And, IMO, it's too late in their career to turn it around.

[Gibby]

So, tell us Monker, what exactly do you expect from the upcoming interviews? Are you willing to say Dean is right on the mark right now?

I don't expect anything that will make me think Journey is about to "make waves" next year.

Flagged.

Thanks, Monker.

Even if it is said: they are signed back to Sony, release an album by the end of the year which features a duet with Kelly Clarkson, have a song and help score Peter Jackson's "The Hobbit", and Herbie returns as their manager -

I'm not going to believe they are going to make waves next year...because so much of the time what Journey says is going to happen - doesn't happen at all, or only a minute portion of what was originaly stated actually come true.

That's why I want them to actually mean what they say. I could give a shit about the announcement cuz we already know what it is. But, I am interested in their future plans. Monker is right about how very little of what the band says is going to happen actually happens. They obviously keep telling Andrew that the interview is coming very soon but that has been the same old story for weeks now. This week sounded like it could actually appear but the week is quickly coming to a close.

[The_Noble_Cause]

What an absolutely assinine comment.

Yes, indubitably. What a scoundrel I have been! Spot of tea, old boy?
If you really want to shatter all illusions of being a holier-than-thou bettle-browed fuck, u first might consider evolving your lexicon for the 21st century. When you're through with that, try throwing away the deerstalker cap and long stemmed unlit novelty pipe.

The "elitists" here are those who have gone about posting whatever they want and totaly disregard Andrew's wishes for how this forum should be used.

Hmm. Considering you are this forum's resident scofflaw (with Andrew at some points almost begging you to fuck off) aren't you describing the mirror image of yourself - minus the platinum blonde wig, stilletos and emaciated corpse of a Filipino boy still clinging to your dill.

They act as if their standing with Andrew and/or Journey makes them more important to this forum, or Journey fandom in general, then others here.

They don't "stand" with Journey, u sniveling pant wetter. It's not a cult. THEY ARE FANS.
It is a given that a Journey forum will contain people that believe in the band and the music they've produced.
Plenty of people here criticize when they see fit.
YOU, on the other hand, specifically come here to criticize and oh-so-predictably go against the grain.

[Matthew]

Just to correct this...

Perry replaced both Smith and Ross during writing session with drum machines and computers. ROR was the first album written without EVERYBODY being involved in the writing sessions...

Isn't it true that Schon and Cain were responsible for most of the early writing sessions for ROR - and indeed the initial experimentation with technology and the new creative direction? Didn't Perry come to the project when it was at a reasonably advanced stage?

Also - during this era the overwhelming majority of successful commercial rock acts were paring down the drum tracks and bringing a simple, heavy snare drum to the fore.

Smith wasn't prepared to adapt - rightly or wrongly - so I'd say the responsibility for his departure lies partly with him too.

Yeah but Matthew, he was nowhere as creative as Smitty was in general and if you compare the few tunes that had a drum track created by Smith and all the others by Londin, the difference is HUGE and very noticeable. I would have loved to have heard what Smith would have provided for all the tracks on ROR. It might have even made a difference is sales.

Fred - which songs on that album featured drum tracks created by Smith? I've often wondered about that.

[Red13JoePa]

[
PLEASEEEEEEEEEE.. Perry screwed the good Journey name by replacing SMITTY with a DAMN DRUM MACHINE back on ROR...

Rick

What drum machine? Larry Londin - a respected session musician - was the drummer on that album.

Loved Londin's work/sound on ROR and for that matter Baird's work on the tour. Particularly both guys on GCHI and IBAWY.
Both seem to me to hit harder than Smitty which is why I also prefer Deen who's nearly peerless in the speed/power departments on rockers..

Also, I think it WAS Smitty on The Eyes Of A Woman.

[fred_journeyman]

Of course you do.
Heaven forbid, ANYTHING even remotely associated with this band have any entertainment factor whatsoever!
You and Monker are two peas in a pod. Two career pessimists with an unjustified elitist attitude.
Why don't u retire to your den and enjoy an evening of reading Kafka and sipping on wine coolers.
Gray haired old buzzard.

Dude, I'm so sorry that you cannot handle the fact that there are thinking people on this forum who disagree with you, but that is totally your problem. My comment "I doubt it" refers to the opinion that I do not believe there will be anything earthshaking in the interview or announcement that is supposed to be forthcoming. For you to take that and extrapolate that with a blanket statement to mean that I do not believe that Journey has an entertainment value is absurd. Obviously people GO to the concerts and enjoy them. That's fine. I do NOT and THAT'S fine. I have long grown tired of hearing the classic tunes over and over again and think that Journey has much more to offer if only they were willing to step out and do it, but the likelihood of that occurring is a very small percentage.

I've explicitly stated WHAT Journey could do to renew my faith in them (record new music and play it in concert). There is nothing elitist about that. In fact, the only thing that I see as being elitist is your attitude toward those who deign to disagree with you.

Why don't you try to insult/bully someone else on this forum (or elsewhere) who might actually be afraid of the big, bad TNC? You're absolutely ridiculous with your sarcastic arrogant verbiage and your attempts to belittle anyone who doesn't immediately see the wisdom in your wise, old visage.

[fred_journeyman]

Fred - which songs on that album featured drum tracks created by Smith? I've often wondered about that.

Eyes of a Woman and Happy to Give. Not sure if others were, but those two definitely. You can hear the finesse Smith uses compared to Londin.

Red: I know what you mean, however I prefer the overall sound of Smith and his drums. Deen's drums sound way too muffled for me. There's no real resonance.

[Red13JoePa]

....of course it's not to say Smitty can't drop the finesse jazz taps and go goddam virtuso, either.

Look nor further than the Escape title track and his solos on Captured and the Houston dvd...

[Monker]

Hmm. Considering you are this forum's resident scofflaw (with Andrew at some points almost begging you to fuck off) aren't you describing the mirror image of yourself - minus the platinum blonde wig, stilletos and emaciated corpse of a Filipino boy still clinging to your dill.

Absolutely niot. I believe that everybody here should be treated the same. I don't care if it is me, you, Dean, Fred, or JSS. No one person should be "more important" (elite) then anybody else. THAT is NOT the talk of an 'elitist'.

If you want to call me an arrogant asshole, then you may have a point - but not an elitist.

They don't "stand" with Journey, u sniveling pant wetter. It's not a cult. THEY ARE FANS.
[/'quote]

That has nothing to do with what I said...I said "their standing with Journey and/or Andrew'...Meaning, they believe they have some kinda special relationship with Journey and/or Andrew and can get away with more then others here. There are people here who believe their ideas for posting are somehow better then others. They believe they bring 'more to the forum' then others. They believe they earned 'capital' that they can spend here. They believe some here are better then others.

THOSE are the ideas of an 'elitist'...and I have *NEVER* shared them. Even when Neal publicly replied to one of my posts on BT that I was right, *I* didn't make a big deal about it - others did. I have even said, several times, that the people on this forum are no better or worse then the people of BT - that they are just average people.

Explain how I believe there is an elite group here, whether I am a part of it or not.

It is a given that a Journey forum will contain people that believe in the band and the music they've produced.
Plenty of people here criticize when they see fit.
YOU, on the other hand, specifically come here to criticize and oh-so-predictably go against the grain.

And, THAT has NOTHING to do with being an 'elitist'.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Dude, I'm so sorry that you cannot handle the fact that there are thinking people on this forum who disagree with you, but that is totally your problem. My comment "I doubt it" refers to the opinion that I do not believe there will be anything earthshaking in the interview or announcement that is supposed to be forthcoming.

I stated that Neal's interviews frequently make for an entertaining read.
You then snippily followed up with "I doubt it."
Proving that ANYTHING associated with this band (even interviews) are immediately disregarded by you as shit.
People like you, Monker, and Rich are not fooling anyone. We see through the act.
You give JSS lip service, but deep down, are beet faced red that Augeri got axed.

The issue at hand was not about dropping any earthshaking bombshells, so don't even try it.
In fact, I even explicitly stated that Neal prolly won't drop any bombs in the upcoming interview.

Why don't you try to insult/bully someone else on this forum (or elsewhere) who might actually be afraid of the big, bad TNC?

Why should I?
Other than stealing a shopping cart from a homeless man or knocking a geezer's legs out from under him with his own cane, you're the easiest target I've ever met.
Low hanging fruit - both figuratively and literally.

[fred_journeyman]

....of course it's not to say Smitty can't drop the finesse jazz taps and go goddam virtuso, either.

Look nor further than the Escape title track and his solos on Captured and the Houston dvd...

You absolutely GOT THAT RIGHT! There was a reason Perry referred to him as "Steve 'Machine Gun" Smith!

[fred_journeyman]

I stated that Neal's interviews frequently make for an entertaining read.
You then snippily followed up with "I doubt it."
Proving that ANYTHING associated with this band (even interviews) are immediately disregarded by you as shit.

No, it only proves that my opinion is different from yours, hence your elitist attitude. If you find Neal's interviews entertaining, that's fine. Why do I have to? I didn't find Steve Perry's most recent interview to be all that entertaining either. Then again, I was only interested in whether or not he was going to address the issue of when/if he will be recording new music. You go way past the point of some of my posts because you are so determined to show me for what I am not. Frankly, I'm not really interested in interviews anymore with the guys simply because things are so carefully worded. You think Neal is going to spill anything of value? No. What I'm interested in is whether or not this band will get past the "we play only the classic tunes in concert" syndrome.

People like you, Monker, and Rich are not fooling anyone. We see through the act.
You give JSS lip service, but deep down, are beet faced red that Augeri got axed.

Not true. First of all, there's no act. Second of all, I don't care that Augeri got axed. I truly could care less about that. My only problem with this whole thing that I've stated before is that I don't think Augeri and Augeri alone is responsible for the lipping. You made another blanket statement about the fact that I wasn't around to cast stones during the past 8 years, and you were wrong there as well. When Augeri was hired, I was among a very small group of people on BT who actually complained about his "thin-sounding" voice and I even made the comment WAY back then that I hoped his voice would last. It didn't, so he's out. Jeff is in. He's got a great voice. That's not lip-service. That's an actual compliment. He has the potential to offer a lot to Journey, however I think he'll be relegated to being their newest frontman who specializes in singing the classics. If/when his voice can't reach those highs anymore, he will be replaced. That's my opinion and I certainly could be wrong.

In the past week, I've read three books, gone bike-riding with the family, enjoyed some time watching home movies, gone Christmas shopping for my loved ones, taught at two colleges, ate at two restaurants we enjoy eating at, gone to church and a bunch of other things that have nothing to do with Journey or Melodicrock.com. What have you done? You obviously take this play WAY more seriously than it has to be.

The issue at hand was not about dropping any earthshaking bombshells, so don't even try it.
In fact, I even explicitly stated that Neal prolly won't drop any bombs in the upcoming interview.

The real issue at hand is that you're embittered by the fact that when the Great and Mighty TNC speaks, not everyone stops what they're doing and listens.

Why should I?

Because you're wasting your time with me.

Other than stealing a shopping cart from a homeless man or knocking a geezer's legs out from under him with his own cane, you're the easiest target I've ever met.

Probably both of which you're quite talented. If I'm the easiest target as you say, then you are obviously not living up to your highest potential. But that's what bullies do. They find someone they see as smaller and less powerful and go after them. I'll say it again, stop bothering me, TNC. You're a bubble-headed blowhard and the fun of "dialoguing" with you is wearing really thin. If you could at least try to make it fun, that would be different. Unfortunately, I have this picture in my head of this guy sitting in his chair, staring at the computer and being really bitter about the fact that he thinks himself a genius, but no one else does.

[fredinator]

Sorry, Fred, don't speak for me--I think he's a genius...

[journeywoman]

Sorry, Fred, don't speak for me--I think he's a genius...

I agree!

[Monker]

People like you, Monker, and Rich are not fooling anyone. We see through the act.
You give JSS lip service, but deep down, are beet faced red that Augeri got axed.

So, now I've gone from being an 'elitist' (which is absolute BULLSHIT, and you know it0 to being "beet faced red" about Augeri. Does that mean I'm supposed to be embarrassed or mad? LOL.

The truth is that I have been saying Journey is going downhill since before the anniversary tour. The past few months are just more evidence of that, IMO. I have said MANY times that it doesn't matter who is singing any longer.

The only thing I was a bit pissed at was that I bought tickets for a lineup for a band that didn't show up. I'm just glad that DL kicked ass.

[fightingilliniJRNY]

The only thing I was a bit pissed at was that I bought tickets for a lineup for a band that didn't show up.

'Journey' was on your ticket and 'Journey' showed up. You don't buy tickets for a lineup. You buy for Don't Stop Believin', Wheel In The Sky, Faithfully and maybe a deep cut or two. That's all that you know you are getting when you purchase a ticket.

[fred_journeyman]

The only thing I was a bit pissed at was that I bought tickets for a lineup for a band that didn't show up.

'Journey' was on your ticket and 'Journey' showed up. You don't buy tickets for a lineup. You buy for Don't Stop Believin', Wheel In The Sky, Faithfully and maybe a deep cut or two. That's all that you know you are getting when you purchase a ticket.

So, I guess if another group of musicians showed up and played Journey tunes, then that would be fine?

[Monker]

The only thing I was a bit pissed at was that I bought tickets for a lineup for a band that didn't show up.

'Journey' was on your ticket and 'Journey' showed up. You don't buy tickets for a lineup. You buy for Don't Stop Believin', Wheel In The Sky, Faithfully and maybe a deep cut or two. That's all that you know you are getting when you purchase a ticket.

I agree with you - Today.

When you buy a ticket for a Journey concert, there's not telling who will show up.

[fred_journeyman]

Sorry, Fred, don't speak for me--I think he's a genius...

I prefer people like Marilyn Vos Savant who is an actual genius and whose IQ score has been measured and verified to be at least 167+. TNC is wrong about a lot of things, though he hates to admit it. That's not the sign of a genius. It's the sign of a belligerent egoist.

[RedWingFan]

The only thing I was a bit pissed at was that I bought tickets for a lineup for a band that didn't show up.

'Journey' was on your ticket and 'Journey' showed up. You don't buy tickets for a lineup. You buy for Don't Stop Believin', Wheel In The Sky, Faithfully and maybe a deep cut or two. That's all that you know you are getting when you purchase a ticket.

So if for some reason the band missed a flight to the show. The roadies and techs could play the songs for you and you'd have no right to a refund?