talkin' 'bout the new sound

[conversationpc]

Good to see TNC back!

[NealIsGod]

On ROR, I think he focused that frustration into his best track-for-track playing on a Journey album yet,

Controversial but totally correct! I'm glad we're back on the same page again, Red.

I think Perry the producer made Neal the guitaritst CHALLENGE himself into an amazingly diverse bunch of guitar tracks on ROR that ran the gamut from rock to bluesy, to jazzy and there was restraint from Neal in places that was perfect.

Incredible, if at times perhaps unNeal-like, playing.

Hell they might very well have been better of with Perry as producer on TBF.

It was nice knowing you.

[Red13JoePa]

I like the Time3 sleeve where it says "Schon absented himself fronm the creative process and instead just silently ripped off his guitar heroics."


Read between the lines, the tension in those sessions must've been unreal. Your're Schon/Cain and agree that Perry should produce so he's calling ALL the shots on the sessions.

He gets rid of Valory/Smitty. He's probably, as he never before was allowed, telling Neal stuff like "Dude. You gotta cut that part again, you're capable of something better. I need something different outa you." And Neal has nothing to say about, he just has to do it....

Fucking guy must;ve been pulling his 'Fro out.

[Saint John]

Neal's solos on Red 13 and Generations seemed like an attempt to cram as much into a 30 second solo as humanly possible. Journey-wise, he hasn't been totally creative and playing WITH the singer since ROR. Though I did like a few of the Arrival solos.

[Red13JoePa]

SinJin you can't hang with Neal's outro solo on The Time?

That thing is one the best pieces of music he's ever recorded.


The Place In Your Heart solo is like 8-10 seconds, dude. Faith In The Heartland, State Of Grace, Out Of Harms Way, In Self Defense had a lot of speedballing solos from Neal, I will agree with you on that, but for me that's audio heaven.
BTW, his rythm guitar track on FITH is second-to-none.

[Carlitto H@kk]

SinJin you can't hang with Neal's outro solo on The Time?

That thing is one the best pieces of music he's ever recorded.


The Place In Your Heart solo is like 8-10 seconds, dude. Faith In The Heartland, State Of Grace, Out Of Harms Way, In Self Defense had a lot of speedballing solos from Neal, I will agree with you on that, but for me that's audio heaven.
BTW, his rythm guitar track on FITH is second-to-none.

Generations really didn't impress this guy very much
but Deen's 2 tracks, OOHW and FITH saved it.
Especially FITH. That song is pure Journey heaven to
my ears. I think it should become a staple in the next tour's set.

[Red13JoePa]

Not huge on Never Too Late (Realize that the 'bat had it in his top 50 of 2005) just felt like we'd been there already with To Be Alive Again. The vocal was great though.

A Better Life, I agree. That track kicks a goodly amount of ass.

[Carlitto H@kk]

One problem - Cain didn't write 'Higher Place'.

First off, I would like to say how great
it is to see you, The King of the Intelligent Sling,
posting again! We've missed ya!

With HP, I could care less who wrote it or got credit for it.
For me, it was just the over-all vibe I got from it.
When it kicks in at the beginning, full throttle,
the guitar and keys riffing together were very
remeniscent of the song 'Escape'!

[Liam]

Damn, TNC...where the hell have you been?? Good to see ya back, bro.

[Matthew]

I like the Time3 sleeve where it says "Schon absented himself fronm the creative process and instead just silently ripped off his guitar heroics."


Read between the lines, the tension in those sessions must've been unreal. Your're Schon/Cain and agree that Perry should produce so he's calling ALL the shots on the sessions.

He gets rid of Valory/Smitty. He's probably, as he never before was allowed, telling Neal stuff like "Dude. You gotta cut that part again, you're capable of something better. I need something different outa you." And Neal has nothing to say about, he just has to do it....

Fucking guy must;ve been pulling his 'Fro out.

You know it...

And this is EXACTLY the process that's been missing from Journey's recording career for years now. Even on TBF its seems that the record suffered from the fact that Perry possibly didn't care as much as he used to...that his perfectionism and control-freakery were on the wane...at least in an active sense.

I know that Journey spent too much money on TBF - so there was some perfectionism going on - but in terms of the edgy chemistry between Perry and Schon...well, maybe they'd become a bit too detached from each other and there wasn't the same tension anymore.

The question is...can Journey record an outstanding album and can Neal deliver a truly classic solo without some crazed perfectionist nutcase in the camp? JSS has the energy but his history suggests he's a 'bang 'em out' merchant too and a tour freak like Schon. Kevin Elson isn't likely to tell Neal to shut the fuck up and play is he? And Irving Azoff isn't a hands on manager like HH either....

Unless they get a big name or domineering producer...who's going to stamp their authority on the band and push the standards up to true excellence even if it pisses everyone off?

[*Laura]

I know that Journey spent too much money on TBF - so there was some perfectionism going on - but in terms of the edgy chemistry between Perry and Schon...well, maybe they'd become a bit too detached from each other and there wasn't the same tension anymore.

You might have a good point here.They got together after a 7 year gap which gave them the chance to taste some independence,so it must have been a pretty tensed writing and recording situation.
Also the fact that they were isolated at The Site for weeks upon weeks could have been another annoying factor.

I remember Neal saying that there were times during the songwriting when they'd clash and then times when they felt the old chemistry kicking in...
I'm sure it wasn't an easy album to do.
The pressure of having to prove to the world they are still the golden line-up Journey from the 80s must've been really high.

I think ROR was done under the same kind of pressure,only the circumstances were different.
However,I believe that true musicians can create amazing things when they are stressed out or unhappy.

Personally,I love both ROR and TBF for different reasons.They're both Journey,but kinda "away" from the standard Journey.Maybe that's their charm.

The question is...can Journey record an outstanding album and can Neal deliver a truly classic solo without some crazed perfectionist nutcase in the camp

Neal might be finally motivated to do an album with a singer he feels comfortable with.
Can't wait to hear what they all come up with.

[Carlitto H@kk]

The question is...can Journey record an outstanding album and can Neal deliver a truly classic solo without some crazed perfectionist nutcase in the camp?
Unless they get a big name or domineering producer...who's going to stamp their authority on the band and push the standards up to true excellence even if it pisses everyone off?

They could get Dr. Dre :lol:
I'm sure the pressure of not wanting to have
a cap busted in their asses would get the wheels
turning pretty quick!

Realistically, whose the biggest name out there right now,
as far as resserecting careers from behind the console???
Rick Rubin. But I'm not sure he'd work well with this band.

Neal, Jon and Deen ALL complained about how weak the
drums sound on the final Generations mix...
I think big drums and I think of Bob Rock pre-St. Anger.

So, if not Elson or Shirley, who could do it?
Terry Brown? Roy Thomas Baker? Ben Grosse? David Bendith?
Sir George Martin? Phil Spector?
Shaw and Blades... Now THIS would add to some killer writing, eh?

[Cate]

The question is...can Journey record an outstanding album and can Neal deliver a truly classic solo without some crazed perfectionist nutcase in the camp?
Unless they get a big name or domineering producer...who's going to stamp their authority on the band and push the standards up to true excellence even if it pisses everyone off?

They could get Dr. Dre :lol:
I'm sure the pressure of not wanting to have
a cap busted in their asses would get the wheels
turning pretty quick!

Realistically, whose the biggest name out there right now,
as far as resserecting careers from behind the console???
Rick Rubin. But I'm not sure he'd work well with this band.

Neal, Jon and Deen ALL complained about how weak the
drums sound on the final Generations mix...
I think big drums and I think of Bob Rock pre-St. Anger.

So, if not Elson or Shirley, who could do it?
Terry Brown? Roy Thomas Baker? Ben Grosse? David Bendith?
Sir George Martin? Phil Spector?
Shaw and Blades... Now THIS would add to some killer writing, eh?

Bob Rock would be a good choice, He has a great studio upcountry in Maui

[Matthew]

Realistically, whose the biggest name out there right now,
as far as resserecting careers from behind the console???
Rick Rubin. But I'm not sure he'd work well with this band.

Why don't you think so, CH?

Shaw and Blades... Now THIS would add to some killer writing, eh?

Yes CH. It would be a wonderful idea.

[Matthew]

Bob Rock would be a good choice, He has a great studio upcountry in Maui

Bit past it though now, isn't he? Plus I always thought that guy sucked the soul out of Metallica. But maybe that's a bit harsh....

[TRAGChick]

"talkin' 'bout the new sound..."

and all I could think of is:

"...funny, but it's still Rock-n-Roll to me..."

Yup - - thanx for puttin' the freakin' BILLY JOEL song in my head now! I can't stand him!!

...yeah; this probly has nothing to do w/ anything in this thread...oh well...happy Friday...

[Carlitto H@kk]

Realistically, whose the biggest name out there right now,
as far as resserecting careers from behind the console???
Rick Rubin. But I'm not sure he'd work well with this band.

Why don't you think so, CH?

I don't know how well the egos of Schonny and Friga
would mesh with a producer as demanding as Rubin.
Who was it he worked with recently that later seperated
from him essentially because of the same issue?
Wasn't it Velvet Revolver?

Shaw and Blades... Now THIS would add to some killer writing, eh?

Yes CH. It would be a wonderful idea.

Sorry Matty, I guess you took me too seriously there
But you've got to admit, Schonny has a knack for writing some good
tunes with Blades...
Higher Place, I Got a Reason, World Gone Wild, Never Too Late...

[Cate]

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[Matthew]

I don't know how well the egos of Schonny and Friga
would mesh with a producer as demanding as Rubin.
Who was it he worked with recently that later seperated
from him essentially because of the same issue?

Wasn't it Velvet Revolver?

But that's exactly what they need, I reckon. Schon and Cain's egos must havetaken a battering with both Herbert and Perry on their case in the 1980s and look at the genius music they created....

The question is...could Journey actually affiord Rick Rubin without major label backing? And something tells me that Rubin is probably not into AOR at all...

But still...someone with his headstrong attitude and perfectionism is just the ticket!

Sorry Matty, I guess you took me too seriously there
But you've got to admit, Schonny has a knack for writing some good
tunes with Blades...
Higher Place, I Got a Reason, World Gone Wild, Never Too Late...

CH - I knew you were joking. I was doing a joke rolling eye emoticon....maybe I should have used a wink instead?

[The_Noble_Cause]

I agree with what I think you're saying. If this is an example of something they can throw together for a one-off occasion and then throw away, it means they've got talent and inspiration to burn.

Exactly.
Contrast this new go-getter attitude with the lethargy on-display for the last 8 years.
For shit's sake, "Generations" was jam packed with any various odds and ends found laying on a studio basement floor.
Up to and including, Augeri solo songs, rockabilly numbers, covers, Arrival leftovers etc.

[Carlitto H@kk]

For shit's sake, "Generations" was jam packed with any various odds and ends found laying on a studio basement floor.
Up to and including, Augeri solo songs, rockabilly numbers, covers, Arrival leftovers etc.

Yea, I can't believe they covered that bad-ass
Jan Hammer Jam, Self Defense!
Didn't HammerTime co-pen that with that Perry guy???

[Matthew]

I agree with what I think you're saying. If this is an example of something they can throw together for a one-off occasion and then throw away, it means they've got talent and inspiration to burn.

Exactly.
Contrast this new go-getter attitude with the lethargy on-display for the last 8 years.
For shit's sake, "Generations" was jam packed with any various odds and ends found laying on a studio basement floor.
Up to and including, Augeri solo songs, rockabilly numbers, covers, Arrival leftovers etc.

Have you actually heard the song yet though, TNC?

I actually quite like it and there is reason to be cautiously optimistic but I wouldn't say it was the work of a band which has inspiration to burn. I mean...we could just as easily say it shows the band has run out of ideas....and is trotting out the same trusty old formula.

So in the end it probably tells us absolutely nothing either way about the quality of the next album....or how creative and successful the Soto/Cain/Schon songwriting trio will be.

[FormerJrnyFan]

Don't we all love Journey? It strikes me as funny sometimes that arguments ensue over albums and sounds. Do we pick it apart too much? I think that the new album will be great, no matter what.

I think it will be too... but I thought the same about "Generations".... goddamn, what a train wreck (nothing personal Deano... )

[ohsherrie]

So in the end it probably tells us absolutely nothing either way about the quality of the next album....or how creative and successful the Soto/Cain/Schon songwriting trio will be.

I'd agree with you about that. I don't think WOF is an example of what's to come. I think it's an example of what they can do when they don't even try and it ain't half bad at that. In fact the structure and melody are as good as, if not better than, most of what's on the top 40 today.

[Jeremey fan forever]

To me the song shows promise of things to come because of Soto. Its an ok song, but listen to Jeff. He has a certain swagger, a Journey coolness in his voice. Its subtle, but its there if you listen. Jeff freaks me out, he is so sly as a singer. I liked Jeff since Soul Sirkus, but I think he is actually a better singer since joining Journey. He raised the bar for his own self, and he is doing things vocally that I don't think he could do before. He is a perfectionist and a workoholic. Kind of reminds me of another great singer Journey once had a long time ago.....


Fuck you wigglers, I didnt say Augeri wasnt good.

[McNeil]

I haven't given it a listen yet, but me and Deano's tastes usually allign (see Believe, Butterfly, our insatiable penchant for sexually ambiguous Phillipino ladyboys) so if he says it sucks, I'm apt to believe him.

Look, here's what's important that I think the fans are missing: when was the last time this band wrote anything on the road and then played it live?
If Deano's right, and this is actually a one-off that won't make it on an album, that's all the more better: it tells me they have new music to burn.

Hi TNC.

I agree with what I think you're saying. If this is an example of something they can throw together for a one-off occasion and then throw away, it means they've got talent and inspiration to burn.

No..it means they will write any old shit to order..... not good...not good at all....

[Rick]

I agree with what I think you're saying. If this is an example of something they can throw together for a one-off occasion and then throw away, it means they've got talent and inspiration to burn.

Exactly.
Contrast this new go-getter attitude with the lethargy on-display for the last 8 years.
For shit's sake, "Generations" was jam packed with any various odds and ends found laying on a studio basement floor.
Up to and including, Augeri solo songs, rockabilly numbers, covers, Arrival leftovers etc.

Wow, haven't seen you around lately either. You been hiding?