Only The Young - Depressing

[Matthew]

Faster tempo songs = less note sustaining = easier on the vocals.

Interesting...I didn't know that was the reason....

[Red13JoePa]

Paraphrasing Jeff, he said it is a preservative measure for the singer when it goes on.

That said, despite the increased speed I adore (outside the damn mowtown covers) the Night At The Spectrum ROR boot I copped from NealIsGod, bless his heart....show was amazing and VERY few if any foul notes from perry.

[TRAGChick]

Faster tempo songs = less note sustaining = easier on the vocals.

Interesting...I didn't know that was the reason....

Yup; that's true...when we had to do shows where I have a cold, things are sped up, and I'm singing at the "falsetto / top end" of my voice...no effort & no "dark" tones....everything sounds like how I sound at the beginning of "11th House".

[Saint John]

Body language, song tempo and the lack of band interaction suggested the tour was doomed. HOWEVER, even the "rushed" tempo and vocals made for a great show. Knox, Perry COULDN'T sing the songs in the older, more soulful way with the tempo being faster. Not being in a band or having any singing experience, I'm not sure who dictates the tempo, the band or the singer. My GUESS would be the singer, but it's just that, a guess. Personally, for selfish reasons, I like the tempo a bit slower as it allows me to appreciate Perry's voice even more. Also, you can really hear the interaction between Perry and Schon much more with a slower tempo. Though I would love to hear Suzanne with a faster tempo...oh wait, I did a few weeks ago and it was awesome.

[Matthew]

Faster tempo songs = less note sustaining = easier on the vocals.

Interesting...I didn't know that was the reason....

Yup; that's true...when we had to do shows where I have a cold, things are sped up, and I'm singing at the "falsetto / top end" of my voice...no effort & no "dark" tones....everything sounds like how I sound at the beginning of "11th House".

Hey tragchk...I listened to "11th House" the other day. Good track - but isn't it a slow and moody number? Or am I mistaking it for another one?

[TRAGChick]

Faster tempo songs = less note sustaining = easier on the vocals.

Interesting...I didn't know that was the reason....

Yup; that's true...when we had to do shows where I have a cold, things are sped up, and I'm singing at the "falsetto / top end" of my voice...no effort & no "dark" tones....everything sounds like how I sound at the beginning of "11th House".

Hey tragchk...I listened to "11th House" the other day. Good track - but isn't it a slow and moody number? Or am I mistaking it for another one?

Yes it is; you're correct....and thanx for the compliment! ....I chose it to illustrate a vocal tone.

In the "angrier" 2nd part, I took a "giant step" away from the mic in the Studio, and belted it....MAJOR "dark tones".

[ohsherrie]

There was a discussion on here one time, I think it was either just before or just after tapegate, that started because someone suggested that the fans who thought Augeri was so good on the classics live had developed lower expectations of Journey because Perry was no longer with the band.

I know you weren't a big Augeri fan Knox, so I'm not talking about you or any specific person in this thread. The thread just got me to wondering how anyone can say that Steve's performance in that clip, or any other for that matter, is subpar, but think Augeri sounded good doing it or any other classic at any time?

Augeri was lucky if he had as many good nights as Perry had bad nights, but for 8 years he was heralded for great performances.

I'm not saying Perry shouldn't be critiqued. I'm one of the 'loons who's always admitted he had his off nights because he's human and so is his instrument. It's just that I don't think he should be held to a higher standard than anyone else who sings his songs.

Even our JSS, of whom I'm a huge fan, is forgiven for a lot worse performances than that particular one of Perry's simply because he's not Perry.

It's as if anyone else going out and singing the songs and keeping Journey going can get away with mediocrity but if Perry sings them he has to be perfect and sound like he did 30 years ago.

For years I was told, wrongly, that I wasn't fair to Augeri simply because he wasn't Perry. I think sometimes some people aren't fair to Perry simply because he is.

[NealIsGod]

For years I was told, wrongly, that I wasn't fair to Augeri simply because he wasn't Perry. I think sometimes some people aren't fair to Perry simply because he is.

It's American Idol syndrome. Everybody's a fucking judge and everything has to be so perfect. It's no wonder bands hate boots.

[Matthew]

It's as if anyone else going out and singing the songs and keeping Journey going can get away with mediocrity but if Perry sings them he has to be perfect and sound like he did 30 years ago.

.

Round of applause for Sherrie! Well said...

[NealIsGod]

It's as if anyone else going out and singing the songs and keeping Journey going can get away with mediocrity but if Perry sings them he has to be perfect and sound like he did 30 years ago.

Round of applause for Sherrie! Well said...

No, the singer for Journey has to be able to sing the catalogue the way it was intended. A very high bar to reach, yes.

[L~L~L]

Perfect post.

There was a discussion on here one time, I think it was either just before or just after tapegate, that started because someone suggested that the fans who thought Augeri was so good on the classics live had developed lower expectations of Journey because Perry was no longer with the band.

I know you weren't a big Augeri fan Knox, so I'm not talking about you or any specific person in this thread. The thread just got me to wondering how anyone can say that Steve's performance in that clip, or any other for that matter, is subpar, but think Augeri sounded good doing it or any other classic at any time?

Augeri was lucky if he had as many good nights as Perry had bad nights, but for 8 years he was heralded for great performances.

I'm not saying Perry shouldn't be critiqued. I'm one of the 'loons who's always admitted he had his off nights because he's human and so is his instrument. It's just that I don't think he should be held to a higher standard than anyone else who sings his songs.

Even our JSS, of whom I'm a huge fan, is forgiven for a lot worse performances than that particular one of Perry's simply because he's not Perry.

It's as if anyone else going out and singing the songs and keeping Journey going can get away with mediocrity but if Perry sings them he has to be perfect and sound like he did 30 years ago.

For years I was told, wrongly, that I wasn't fair to Augeri simply because he wasn't Perry. I think sometimes some people aren't fair to Perry simply because he is.

[TRAGChick]

It's as if anyone else going out and singing the songs and keeping Journey going can get away with mediocrity but if Perry sings them he has to be perfect and sound like he did 30 years ago. For years I was told, wrongly, that I wasn't fair to Augeri simply because he wasn't Perry. I think sometimes some people aren't fair to Perry simply because he is.

I absolutely LOVE this....thanks ohsherrie

These days, if Steve Perry HIMSELF doesn't sound enough like "Steve Perry", he's done.....complete and utter bullshit.

Reminds me of how Record Labels and such will turn their backs on Singers if Singers decide to take on a "new sound / genre", or if they don't "sound like themselves"....it's Neil Young Syndrome....he was sued by his label because he decided to put out one Rockabilly album in the 80s, and he "didn't sound enough like Neil Young".

WTF???

Cribbed from: http://reclaimthemedia.org/arts_activis ... ts_in_rock


"Geffen Sues Neil Young For Not Sounding Like Neil Young

In 1983, David Geffen enticed Neil Young to sign with Geffen Records for considerably less money than Shakey was being offered elsewhere. The incentive that brought Young into Geffen's fold was the assurance that he could make whatever records he wanted without commercial restraint.

Right off the bat, Young explored the new found territories of his freedom, testing the patience of his new label by experimenting with computer generated synth-rock and recording Trans, which gave the world an opportunity to hear what might have happened had "Mr. Soul" been recorded by robots. For his next effort, Young recorded Everybody's Rockin', an album of middling Fifties-style rockabilly tunes. Despite the fact that Young was exerting the exact creative freedom promised to him, Geffen wondered exactly they were getting out of their deal and sued Young for making "uncharacteristic music with no chance of commercial success."Even though Trans and Everybody's Rockin' peaked respectively at #19 and #46 on Billboard's album charts, Geffen seemed miffed that they didn't sound like Harvest or Tonight's The Night and demanded the return of $3 million dollars advanced to Young.

In response, Young countersued for $21 million, the value of the entire deal. Although the matter ultimately settled, Geffen Records lost some credibility as a label with a commitment to fostering artistic creativity. Backtracking from the allegations of the suit, Geffen later tried to justify it, "The truth is I fought with [Young] because I wanted him to do better work." "

[knox]

Let the record state that Perry in his 70's will STILL be able to sing better than me.

True, I compare everything Journey, including Perry in his later years, to Escape and anything previous.

Fair? Probably not. But life's not fair, and being in the spot light is tough. Especially when you sing like Steve did 27 years ago.


Wow, I AM old

[Red13JoePa]

Perfect post.

I think sometimes some people aren't fair to Perry simply because he is.

Oh, God.

[ohsherrie]

It's as if anyone else going out and singing the songs and keeping Journey going can get away with mediocrity but if Perry sings them he has to be perfect and sound like he did 30 years ago.

Round of applause for Sherrie! Well said...

No, the singer for Journey has to be able to sing the catalogue the way it was intended. A very high bar to reach, yes.

Yeah, but the songs were intended to sound like Perry sang them when he recorded them. They were written, arranged, and mixed around his unique vocal capabilities. There's only one Perry and he set the bar so high that no one can sound like him singing them the way they were originally recorded. Not even Perry himself any more. So why are others who don't sound like Perry did when he originally recorded the songs held to a lower standard than Perry himself singing them 20+ years after he recorded them?

[Deb]

GREAT post Sher!

[Red13JoePa]

why are others who don't sound like Perry did when he originally recorded the songs held to a lower standard than Perry himself singing them 20+ years after he recorded them?

#1) I would dispute that it's a lower standard
#2) Maybe you and other loons who burnt Augeri at the stake form June, 1998 on, before his voice flamed out and 'gate was born could answer that question. Why does JSS get the benefit of the doubt, and in fact praise from a lot of loons that Augeri wouldn't have come close to getting if he were JC Himself?


I ask that while exempting the rabidly loyal loons who bash both Augeri and JSS on an equal opportunity basis.

[Deb]

#2) Maybe you and other loons who burnt Augeri at the stake form June, 1998 on, before his voice flamed out and 'gate was born could answer that question. Why does JSS get the benefit of the doubt, and in fact praise from a lot of loons that Augeri wouldn't have come close to getting if he were JC Himself?

I can only answer for me......and these are just my opinions.

1) I never 'burnt' Augeri at the stake, I've never said anything bad about him at all. He just didn't do anything for me as a Journey frontman.
2) I really like JSS's powerful yet also soulful vocals.
3) I can see some of Perry's passion/soul in JSS.
4) Very entertaining frontman.
5) Like my rockstar frontmen to be Confident Certified Rock Gods.
6) Just plain hawt.

5 & 6 are chick things, the gals know what I mean.

[Red13JoePa]

OK, OK, maybe I hyperbolized a LITTLE bit. I realize that's a completely alien concept to loons who never partake of such chicainery when propping up punxatawney steve.

I'll instead ask why Augeri from '98-to'04 never gained a shred of acceptance among the loon population that's embraced Jeff.

[ohsherrie]

#1) I would dispute that it's a lower standard
#2) Maybe you and other loons who burnt Augeri at the stake form June, 1998 on, before his voice flamed out and 'gate was born could answer that question. Why does JSS get the benefit of the doubt, and in fact praise from a lot of loons that Augeri wouldn't have come close to getting if he were JC Himself?


I ask that while exempting the rabidly loyal loons who bash both Augeri and JSS on an equal opportunity basis.

#1) So you really think Augeri sounded as good on the songs as Perry did when he recorded them?

#2) Simple. Jeff sounds good singing them even though he doesn't sound like Perry. Augeri didn't.

If they hadn't tried to pass off the change in frontmen as if it was hardly a bump in the road and they could stick anyone with a tenor voice up there and still be the same I personally still may not have like the sound as much with Augeri in there, but at least I wouldn't have resented Journey so much for their anti-Perry attitude.

To be honest, and I've said this before, for me a lot of my negative feelings about the lineup with Augeri developed after I came on line looking for information because of the way I found people(including Neal) talking negatively about Perry and trying to diminish, if not completely negate the importance of his contribution to Journey. "Perry who?" "Who needs Perry we've got someone who can sing now." Direct quotes from VH1 and BT.

[NealIsGod]

OK, OK, maybe I hyperbolized a LITTLE bit. I realize that's a completely alien concept to loons who never partake of such chicainery when propping up punxatawney steve.

I'll instead ask why Augeri from '98-to'04 never gained a shred of acceptance among the loon population that's embraced Jeff.

I think it's cuz he replaced Perry on the heels of what was supposed to be Journey's comeback with Perry. That must have hurt the fans who only like Journey cuz of Perry. Fans who like the songs and have an open mind were pleasantly surprised. And the casual fans couldn't tell the diff.

[Red13JoePa]

OK, OK, maybe I hyperbolized a LITTLE bit. I realize that's a completely alien concept to loons who never partake of such chicainery when propping up punxatawney steve.

I'll instead ask why Augeri from '98-to'04 never gained a shred of acceptance among the loon population that's embraced Jeff.

I think it's cuz he replaced Perry on the heels of what was supposed to be Journey's comeback with Perry. That must have hurt the fans who only like Journey cuz of Perry.

This could be it, with the exception of "on the heels."

By the time they pulled the plug, we were a year-a-half out from TBF (Harldy on the heels) and from all accounts he was about as commital as an Easter Island monument on touring behind that record.

It's not Augeri's fault the loons actually thought perry inteded to go near a stage in support of that record a year-and-a-half and counting out.

[Deb]

OK, OK, maybe I hyperbolized a LITTLE bit. I realize that's a completely alien concept to loons who never partake of such chicainery when propping up punxatawney steve.

I'll instead ask why Augeri from '98-to'04 never gained a shred of acceptance among the loon population that's embraced Jeff.

LOL, in one word Red........spark or chemistry. That Journey spark or chemistry just wasn't there for me. Wasn't for lack of trying either. I do own the post Perry cds (except Red13) and actually enjoy parts of the 2001 dvd. I think my sig says it all. IMO Jeff just brings it!

[Red13JoePa]

#1) So you really think Augeri sounded as good on the songs as Perry did when he recorded them?

#2) Simple. Jeff sounds good singing them even though he doesn't sound like Perry. Augeri didn't.

#1) Heavens no. I PREFERRED Augeri on may of them (some not, Perry's live Escape among the rest is without peer)

#2) So put another way, Augeri had the misfortune of sounding too much like perry for the comfort of many a loon.

The coming elitist retort to that one is very predictable, but I will pre-rebutt that with the bottom line reality is that most casual and a lot of big-time journey fans were amazed at how little the vocal sound changed.

[Deb]

I think it's cuz he replaced Perry on the heels of what was supposed to be Journey's comeback with Perry. That must have hurt the fans who only like Journey cuz of Perry. Fans who like the songs and have an open mind were pleasantly surprised. And the casual fans couldn't tell the diff.

You are right about that NIG, I was pleasantly surprised the first time I heard Higher Place, really liked it. I guess I'm not a good one to comment on this, I was never an Augeri hater. I guess I was just more indifferent than anything.

[Matthew]

To be honest, and I've said this before, for me a lot of my negative feelings about the lineup with Augeri developed after I came on line looking for information because of the way I found people(including Neal) talking negatively about Perry and trying to diminish, if not completely negate the importance of his contribution to Journey. "Perry who?" "Who needs Perry we've got someone who can sing now." Direct quotes from VH1 and BT.

Same here Sherrie...

The bizarre, devious and hostile attititudes toward Perry from the band and many of its fans came as a real surprise - and yes, these attitudes probably played too big a part in my resistence to the Augeri era.

[Red13JoePa]

Cry me a river.


Not to worry though, I'm sure tbone's limbering up his "delete" finger as we read.


PM update: Tbone, my apologies, you let this debate run it's course and we didn't kill eachother.

[ohsherrie]

OK, OK, maybe I hyperbolized a LITTLE bit. I realize that's a completely alien concept to loons who never partake of such chicainery when propping up punxatawney steve.

I'll instead ask why Augeri from '98-to'04 never gained a shred of acceptance among the loon population that's embraced Jeff.

I think it's cuz he replaced Perry on the heels of what was supposed to be Journey's comeback with Perry. That must have hurt the fans who only like Journey cuz of Perry. Fans who like the songs and have an open mind were pleasantly surprised. And the casual fans couldn't tell the diff.

I know that's what a lot of the fans who don't care who sings or how they sound as long as the can strain up to the high notes want to think, and it may be true for some, but there really are some of us for whom the vocals are the focal point of the sound and just plain did not think Augeri sung well enough to give us what we wanted and expected from Journey. Perry's incredible voice was a huge part of Journey and having a pale, shallow replacement who could strain out the notes just didn't cut it.

Like Deb said, Jeff puts the heart, soul, and power back into the vocals. He just happens to look fine doing it too.

[ohsherrie]

#1) So you really think Augeri sounded as good on the songs as Perry did when he recorded them?

#2) Simple. Jeff sounds good singing them even though he doesn't sound like Perry. Augeri didn't.

#1) Heavens no. I PREFERRED Augeri on may of them (some not, Perry's live Escape among the rest is without peer)

#2) So put another way, Augeri had the misfortune of sounding too much like perry for the comfort of many a loon.

The elitist retort to that one will is very predictable, but I will pre-rebutt that with the bottom line reality is that most casual and a lot of big-time journey fans were amazed at how little the vocal sound changed.

I guess this is one of those occasions that prove the old saying "There's no accounting for taste".


I never though Augeri sounded at all like Perry. He had the same basic range, but lacked strength in both the higher and lower ends of the register depending on the era of the song he was trying to sing.

Just hitting the notes doesn't mean the notes are going to sound as good. The same note can be played on a banjo and a guitar and they're not going to sound the same. Which instrument plays the note better is just an matter of taste, but I don't think too many people really prefer the tinny sound of a banjo the the rich resonance of a good guitar.

[Red13JoePa]

I know that's what a lot of the fans who don't care who sings or how they sound as long as the can strain up to the high notes want to think, and it may be true for some, but there really are some of us for whom the vocals are the focal point of the sound and just plain did not think Augeri sung well enough to give us what we wanted and expected from Journey. Perry's incredible voice was a huge part of Journey and having a pale, shallow replacement who could strain out the notes just didn't cut it.

Incredible.

Coming in a thread about ABOUT a mmmmm questionable? performance of his, one that was attempted to be excused both by having come too late (debunked) then too early (preposterous) in the show, and then by having been sick.

And then STILL excused by having the tried and true "it's the feeling BEHIND the performance/The EMOTION he brings to the performance that matter (whatever those mean, however they're guagued)" rhetoric applied when all else fails.