Jonathan Cain Needs To Get a Freakin' Clue!!!!!

[Saint John]

May I just let u know that Augeri can sing wonderfully again & has been able to for a long time. Since before Jeff was named lead singer officially even.

He really deserves our apologies. We bought into something that wasn't entirely factual. He was fucked & fired just like Jeff was.

Sorry...I don't agree for one second that I owe Steve Augeri an apology for ANYTHING! When the entire tape episode broke, I held the ENTIRE BAND'S feet to the fire, as I never thought for a second one person was responsible! Nothing has changed for me! I still hold the entire band responsible for the fraud they perpetrated on their fans, and Augeri was as big of a part of that as everyone else! The bottom line (no matter how anyone attempts to sugar coat things) is that Augeri was up there pretending to sing, night after night! Anyone who truly believes that behavior warrants an apology needs to stop looking at the world through rose-colored glasses! The only apology that should take place is from Augeri to Journey fans across the world for blatantly lying to them and stealing their money! Deen, Neal, Jon, and Ross should also be part of that apology!


John from Boston

Actually, if you want to be technical, you're DEAD wrong. He WAS singing....his feed simply wasn't going out to the audience. I've done a complete 180 on this. Steve Augeri DID his job. Management and Friga are the ones that decided to deceive their fans. Anyone who believes that Augeri, Valory or Castro-no-nuts have ANY say in the decision making process is simply a fool. Augeri sang every note at every show.

[Rockindeano]

May I just let u know that Augeri can sing wonderfully again & has been able to for a long time. Since before Jeff was named lead singer officially even.

He really deserves our apologies. We bought into something that wasn't entirely factual. He was fucked & fired just like Jeff was.

Sorry...I don't agree for one second that I owe Steve Augeri an apology for ANYTHING! When the entire tape episode broke, I held the ENTIRE BAND'S feet to the fire, as I never thought for a second one person was responsible! Nothing has changed for me! I still hold the entire band responsible for the fraud they perpetrated on their fans, and Augeri was as big of a part of that as everyone else! The bottom line (no matter how anyone attempts to sugar coat things) is that Augeri was up there pretending to sing, night after night! Anyone who truly believes that behavior warrants an apology needs to stop looking at the world through rose-colored glasses! The only apology that should take place is from Augeri to Journey fans across the world for blatantly lying to them and stealing their money! Deen, Neal, Jon, and Ross should also be part of that apology!


John from Boston

Actually, if you want to be technical, you're DEAD wrong. He WAS singing....his feed simply wasn't going out to the audience. I've done a complete 180 on this. Steve Augeri DID his job. Management and Friga are the ones that decided to deceive their fans. Anyone who believes that Augeri, Valory or Castro-no-nuts have ANY say in the decision making process is simply a fool. Augeri sang every note at every show.

No. Not every note. He was singing sometimes nad mouthing at others. Deen was told to sing in case Augeri was taken off power.

You don't the facts SJ.

[DarwinNebraska]

Who's shocked... Herbie said this guy was a heartless prick.

He seems to have proved it time and time again.

[Matthew]

May I just let u know that Augeri can sing wonderfully again & has been able to for a long time. Since before Jeff was named lead singer officially even.

He really deserves our apologies. We bought into something that wasn't entirely factual. He was fucked & fired just like Jeff was.

Sorry...I don't agree for one second that I owe Steve Augeri an apology for ANYTHING! When the entire tape episode broke, I held the ENTIRE BAND'S feet to the fire, as I never thought for a second one person was responsible! Nothing has changed for me! I still hold the entire band responsible for the fraud they perpetrated on their fans, and Augeri was as big of a part of that as everyone else! The bottom line (no matter how anyone attempts to sugar coat things) is that Augeri was up there pretending to sing, night after night! Anyone who truly believes that behavior warrants an apology needs to stop looking at the world through rose-colored glasses! The only apology that should take place is from Augeri to Journey fans across the world for blatantly lying to them and stealing their money! Deen, Neal, Jon, and Ross should also be part of that apology!


John from Boston

Actually, if you want to be technical, you're DEAD wrong. He WAS singing....his feed simply wasn't going out to the audience. I've done a complete 180 on this. Steve Augeri DID his job. Management and Friga are the ones that decided to deceive their fans. Anyone who believes that Augeri, Valory or Castro-no-nuts have ANY say in the decision making process is simply a fool. Augeri sang every note at every show.

Sorry...but let me get this straight. Is it being claimed now that Tapegate was ALL Cain and Schon's fault and that Augeri had no idea his vocals weren't being transmitted to the speakers? That Augeri stood there with full integrity and authenticity and was unwittingly cheated on stage by Cain, Schon and Elson?

If so...all I can say is...oh, please.

Look...I know Schon and Cain deserve all the crap they're getting now for JSS...but there's no reason to rewrite history just to make them look extra-villainous...nor to start grovelling to Augeri either. The entire band has to take responsibility for Tapegate. It really is as simple as that - surely!

[donnaplease]

Sorry...but let me get this straight. Is it being claimed now that Tapegate was ALL Cain and Schon's fault and that Augeri had no idea his vocals weren't being transmitted to the speakers? That Augeri stood there with full integrity and authenticity and was unwittingly cheated on stage by Cain, Schon and Elson?

If so...all I can say is...oh, please.

Look...I know Schon and Cain deserve all the crap they're getting now for JSS...but there's no reason to rewrite history just to make them look extra-villainous...nor to start grovelling to Augeri either. The entire band has to take responsibility for Tapegate. It really is as simple as that - surely!

Actually, what I'm interpreting this to mean is that things aren't as 'black and white' as we were led to believe. I understand there is now information that has surfaced which sheds a new light on things. Augeri didn't do his job. He was physically unable. He doesn't get a pass, IMO. But, perhaps he wasn't the selfish, villainous jerk that he was portrayed to be. I would imagine, like others within the band, that he did what he was told to do. He made a choice. Unfortunately for him and for all of you (I wasn't an SA fan) it was the wrong one. Recent events, however, may help to re-write history a little it seems.

[Carlitto H@kk]

Sorry...but let me get this straight. Is it being claimed now that Tapegate was ALL Cain and Schon's fault and that Augeri had no idea his vocals weren't being transmitted to the speakers? That Augeri stood there with full integrity and authenticity and was unwittingly cheated on stage by Cain, Schon and Elson?

If so...all I can say is...oh, please.

Look...I know Schon and Cain deserve all the crap they're getting now for JSS...but there's no reason to rewrite history just to make them look extra-villainous...nor to start grovelling to Augeri either. The entire band has to take responsibility for Tapegate. It really is as simple as that - surely!

Actually, what I'm interpreting this to mean is that things aren't as 'black and white' as we were led to believe. I understand there is now information that has surfaced which sheds a new light on things.

I don't think the info is nessecarily new, Donna.
When Augeri got ousted and Jeff came in,
things were looking bright and was logical
to make sure that Augeri seemed to be the only culprit...
We were all a little guilty of this because we really wanted
to believe that Neal and Frig were hell-bent on making this
"New" Journey an incredible band again...

But since they have burned the fans, yet again, by their fucking cowardly greed
and pure lack of respect for anyone NOT named Schon or Cain,
I think the ENTIRE TG Situation will finally e brought to light
so that Frig&Fro can be shown a little better for who they REALLY are :wink:

[Matthew]

Sorry...but let me get this straight. Is it being claimed now that Tapegate was ALL Cain and Schon's fault and that Augeri had no idea his vocals weren't being transmitted to the speakers? That Augeri stood there with full integrity and authenticity and was unwittingly cheated on stage by Cain, Schon and Elson?

If so...all I can say is...oh, please.

Look...I know Schon and Cain deserve all the crap they're getting now for JSS...but there's no reason to rewrite history just to make them look extra-villainous...nor to start grovelling to Augeri either. The entire band has to take responsibility for Tapegate. It really is as simple as that - surely!

Actually, what I'm interpreting this to mean is that things aren't as 'black and white' as we were led to believe. I understand there is now information that has surfaced which sheds a new light on things. Augeri didn't do his job. He was physically unable. He doesn't get a pass, IMO. But, perhaps he wasn't the selfish, villainous jerk that he was portrayed to be. I would imagine, like others within the band, that he did what he was told to do. He made a choice. Unfortunately for him and for all of you (I wasn't an SA fan) it was the wrong one. Recent events, however, may help to re-write history a little it seems.

I believed Deano's original claims from day one: that Schon, Cain, Augeri and Elson were all involved in the fraud, that they were ALL villains in this scenario.

It was only after Deano shut his blog that the case started to be made that Augeri was entirely to blame and that Schon had nothing to do with it. Now Augeri is a misunderstood, saint-like figure victimized by the evil senior members of the band.

Anyway...all this flip-flopping aside....the firings of Augeri and JSS were completely different.

In Augeri's case....Journey were defrauding the fans. They got busted. Add to this that the 'tribute strategy' (which Journey are now returning to) had failed - unless you count a career on the nostalgia circuit a success for a band of this stature.

In JSS's case...he did absolutely nothing wrong. He was great with the fans. And the band were moving away from the tribute strategy and there was a revival of sorts. It's hard to understand why they fired him. Whereas Augeri had to go.

Cain and Schon weren't villainous or misguided when they fired Augeri. It was when they hired the guy in '98 to do EXACTLY what they want JSS's replacement to do now.

[Pelata]

I talked to someone a little while ago who personally knows someone related to this whole fiasco and he was told that it's almost a situation taken from the movie "Rock Star". JSS had tons of song ideas and Cain batted them down with something to the effect of "I write the songs w/ Neal in this band..." Cain did not want to go in the direction Neal & JSS wanted to go in...and, if this has any truth to it, he must've played some sort of trump card on Schon to get his way...

If this has been speculated before, forgive me...I just thought it was interesting...

[Enigma869]

I talked to someone a little while ago who personally knows someone related to this whole fiasco and he was told that it's almost a situation taken from the movie "Rock Star". JSS had tons of song ideas and Cain batted them down with something to the effect of "I write the songs w/ Neal in this band..." Cain did not want to go in the direction Neal & JSS wanted to go in...and, if this has any truth to it, he must've played some sort of trump card on Schon to get his way...

If this has been speculated before, forgive me...I just thought it was interesting...

Well, the one thing I will say in Cain's defense (which I can't believe I'm even contemplating) is that if Schon and Jeff were attempting to write Journey songs in the style of their baby, Soul SirkUS, then Cain did the correct thing in stepping in to veto the move. It's never been much of a secret that Neal has always sort of been held hostage by the Journey catalogue of music. Anyone who listens to Neal for more than 5 minutes comes to the conclusion that he's a hard rocking guitarist who is trapped by the success he has had as a member of Journey. This is why Neal has always had these endless "side projects" going on throughout his career (which prompted Perry into Street Talk). He seems to always be wanting to break away from what made him rich and successful. Perhaps Cain is smart enough to understand that breaking away from the Journey formula simply wouldn't work for the majority of Journey fans.

That said, I think Cain sounds like a complete dope making the quotes he made. I'm not sure how he and Journey ever expect to hold on to what they haven't had in nearly 20 years. I do think by seeking out a Perry sound-alike (which his quotes certainly make it sound like), they are simply validating what many of us have always believed...Perry was always the driving force behind that band and the enormous success they enjoyed!


John from Boston

[Salmacis99]

Cain and Schon weren't villainous or misguided when they fired Augeri. It was when they hired the guy in '98 to do EXACTLY what they want JSS's replacement to do now.

I must respectfully disagree.

Here's a point which nobody talks about- if you listen to Augeri and Perry side by side, they do NOT sound like each other!!! Maybe here and there, but the differences are distinct. Furthermore, when they were auditioning singers back in 97'- 98', Journey turned down guys like the creepy Hugo because he WAS too much like Perry. They wanted to continue the band, but not make it sound or look like they were bringing in a doppleganger of the beloved Perry.

Cain and Augeri were most certainly villainous and misguided when they fired Steve Augeri. But let's play devil's advocate- let's say Augeri wanted to leave. Maybe he'd had enough of the endless touring and Neal and Jon's bullshit. They could have released him with some grace and respect, but they didn't. They let him take many falls for many things and just went merrily on their conceited way.

Another thing- does anyone REALLY BELIEVE that JSS just "happened to be available"? Really? People buy that? He just waltzed in with a week's notice and learned all the songs? Please- are we really that naive?

Here's an example of a band with dignity- Rush. Drummer Neil Peart needed time to change his drumming style, so they gave him a year to himself with no hassles. A few years later when the poor man's wife and daughter died within a year of each other, Rush didn't bring in another drummer to keep the paychecks rolling in- they waited. The result of all this? Rush are still together, still selling out the shows, and are still a relevant force in rock and roll.

And where are Journey now at the end of all their nonsense? They're a soap opera- a comedy of selfish errors. Knowing what I know now about Journey's complete lack of decency, I can't even watch the 2001 DVD. I can't look at Neal making the "I'm severely constipated as I bend my note" face without wanting to punch the television.

As my buddy Tom 02 has stated, Journey's only way out at this point is a reunion with Perry- anything else will be the last grasp that buries them under the quicksand.

[Monker]

Sorry...but let me get this straight. Is it being claimed now that Tapegate was ALL Cain and Schon's fault and that Augeri had no idea his vocals weren't being transmitted to the speakers? That Augeri stood there with full integrity and authenticity and was unwittingly cheated on stage by Cain, Schon and Elson?

LOL...this is REALLY pathetic. People, a lot of people, bent over backwards to protect everybody else in the band...especialy Neal. Now that a similar situation has happened to JSS, they want to erase a years worth of posting and say, "Ah, yes, it REALLY was the rest of the band's fault, too..."

Blind faith put you those people in this situation.

[Monker]

Actually, what I'm interpreting this to mean is that things aren't as 'black and white' as we were led to believe. I understand there is now information that has surfaced which sheds a new light on things. Augeri didn't do his job. He was physically unable. He doesn't get a pass, IMO. But, perhaps he wasn't the selfish, villainous jerk that he was portrayed to be. I would imagine, like others within the band, that he did what he was told to do. He made a choice. Unfortunately for him and for all of you (I wasn't an SA fan) it was the wrong one. Recent events, however, may help to re-write history a little it seems.

Of course, because they need a new villan to place the blame things on. Seems the people here want to now blame Jonathan. These things are band decisions. It doesn't matter if it is JSS being fired, Augeri doing 'whatever', Perry being fiired, Gregg and Chalfant ousted from the reunion in favor of Perry, Ross and Smith ousted during ROR. Prior to that, Herbie led things and kept this sillyness away from the whole of the band (firing Aynsley, firing Fleischman, hiring Perry, etc.)

So, blame the BAND for this type of stupidity...not ONE person within it.

[Monker]

I talked to someone a little while ago who personally knows someone related to this whole fiasco and he was told that

Do you realize how that sounds?

it's almost a situation taken from the movie "Rock Star". JSS had tons of song ideas and Cain batted them down with something to the effect of "I write the songs w/ Neal in this band..." Cain did not want to go in the direction Neal & JSS wanted to go in...and, if this has any truth to it, he must've played some sort of trump card on Schon to get his way...

If this has been speculated before, forgive me...I just thought it was interesting...

If Jonathan write the songs in this band then he needs to get off his ass and write songs...cuz he hasn't REALLY done it since Arrival.

[squirt1]

Cain misses a big factor in his writing and that is Perry and so does Neal. Perry wrote with either or both 70-80% of the time. They have spun their wheels for the last 8 yrs and now after a little sunshine( JSS) they have the wheels stuck in muck up to the axles.

[Monker]

That's pattently false - and I will laboriously dig up quotes if forced to.
Time and time again, it was mentioned that EVERYONE was culpable.
However, where does the buck ultimately stop?
JSS has said that he would never resort to lipping. NEVER.
A similar comment has been made by Deen Castronovo.
Amazing that all these Journey singers are imbued with free will, save for Steve Augeri that is.

Bullshit. It may have started as you say above. But, Dean went down the path that Neal knew nothing about it, that Augeri's voice wasn't in his monitor. You went down the path of saying that Neal had no chemistry with Augeri, that he didnt' care what he was doing, and therefore did not know anything about it.

Now, you people want to do a 180 and ignore all of that history and blame the 'band' instead of just Augeri. It seems to me that you guys are just as hypocritical and full of BS as Journey. You were foolish enough to follow that course - accept that you were wrong to do so.

Fifth time I'm asking you this question.
Name one possible scenario where defrauding your fans is acceptable.
I don't even care if one of the band member's family members had taken ill and needed expensive treatment.

I suppose when you can blame the singer and force him to take responsibility for the band's actions.

In fact, according to one band member, they wanted him gone, but "no one had the heart to do it".

I guess their hearts shrunk three sizes since then. What bullshit. If they had the 'heart' to fire Perry, they had the heart to fire Augeri. I don't know why you people believe this crap...even if a 'bandmember' said it to you face to face.

[tammy]

Salmacis99, JSS was a fan of Journey's music since he was a kid & sung it in his solo work - I'm sure he knew those songs forward, backward & upside down. Also, wasn't he busy with his other bands & had to cancel them when he got the call from Neal to save their butts after tapegate?

I'm not familar with Rush but it sounds like they are a band of brothers for doing that & not seeing lost dollar signs.

[Shadowsong]

Cain and Schon weren't villainous or misguided when they fired Augeri. It was when they hired the guy in '98 to do EXACTLY what they want JSS's replacement to do now.

I must respectfully disagree.

Here's a point which nobody talks about- if you listen to Augeri and Perry side by side, they do NOT sound like each other!!! Maybe here and there, but the differences are distinct. Furthermore, when they were auditioning singers back in 97'- 98', Journey turned down guys like the creepy Hugo because he WAS too much like Perry. They wanted to continue the band, but not make it sound or look like they were bringing in a doppleganger of the beloved Perry.

Cain and Augeri were most certainly villainous and misguided when they fired Steve Augeri. But let's play devil's advocate- let's say Augeri wanted to leave. Maybe he'd had enough of the endless touring and Neal and Jon's bullshit. They could have released him with some grace and respect, but they didn't. They let him take many falls for many things and just went merrily on their conceited way.

Another thing- does anyone REALLY BELIEVE that JSS just "happened to be available"? Really? People buy that? He just waltzed in with a week's notice and learned all the songs? Please- are we really that naive?

Here's an example of a band with dignity- Rush. Drummer Neil Peart needed time to change his drumming style, so they gave him a year to himself with no hassles. A few years later when the poor man's wife and daughter died within a year of each other, Rush didn't bring in another drummer to keep the paychecks rolling in- they waited. The result of all this? Rush are still together, still selling out the shows, and are still a relevant force in rock and roll.

And where are Journey now at the end of all their nonsense? They're a soap opera- a comedy of selfish errors. Knowing what I know now about Journey's complete lack of decency, I can't even watch the 2001 DVD. I can't look at Neal making the "I'm severely constipated as I bend my note" face without wanting to punch the television.

As my buddy Tom 02 has stated, Journey's only way out at this point is a reunion with Perry- anything else will be the last grasp that buries them under the quicksand.

Hey
"The Deucebago's

Love your Aviitar
Boy sometimes pics speak louder Frick & Frat Farts///....

[Enigma869]

Cain misses a big factor in his writing and that is Perry and so does Neal. Perry wrote with either or both 70-80% of the time. They have spun their wheels for the last 8 yrs and now after a little sunshine( JSS) they have the wheels stuck in muck up to the axles.

I don't think Cain and Schon, combined, have one tenth of the creativity that Perry had! That's why these guys can't write a hit to save their lives! At this stage in the game, who Journey hires as their next hired gun is about as relevant as Journey is, as a band! They will NEVER find ANY song they ever write again ANYWHERE near ANY music chart! People simply don't care!


John from Boston

[The_Noble_Cause]

You went down the path of saying that Neal had no chemistry with Augeri,….

Yep, and I’ve been saying precisely just that since 2002, long before Jeff Soto entered the scene.
I even submitted a piece to the now defunct Journey Zone website about it.
Unsurprisingly, Neal later echoed similar sentiments in Andrew’s superb Journey feature from last year.
Reaching this conclusion is not some chasm-spanning leap of faith, rather, it’s just a matter of paying attention to details.

Among the many tell-tale warning sings were:

- Augeri writing for a solo album while still in the band.
- The Schon/Augeri collaboration, “Beyond the Clouds”, having only come about thru sheer happenstance (as other members happened to arrive late to rehearsal that day).
- The abundance of outside writers on ‘Arrival’.
- The scarcity of overall Augeri writing credits, in comparison to the indeniable lyrical-musical jibing of Schon/Soto to be found everywhere (i.e. SoulSirkus, Belive in Me).

And there’s many more!

…that [Neal] didnt' care what he was doing, and therefore did not know anything about it.

I have heard Neal Schon’s well-parsed excuses of the use of tapes.
Including, “if something was going on, I didn’t know about it” and “I didn’t have Augeri in my inner-ear monitor”.
While he gets high marks for imaginative resourcefulness, I never said I believed it, and I most certainly never made excuses for him or any members of the band.
What I did do, and what’s really riding that glittery pink spandex thong up your pasty, coagulated buttcheeks right about now, is that I chose to hold person most responsible to a higher standard of judgement.
Steve Augeri’s vocal shortcomings where present a lot earlier than the Def tour.
If one man could’ve brought the state-wide tour of opprobrious chicanery to a halt it was him.
As for Neal and Jons’ sense of moral decency, get real.
Most fans have known their moral fiber to be suspect for some time.

Now, you people want to do a 180 and ignore all of that history and blame the 'band' instead of just Augeri.

Like your constant refrain of “I’m a Woman!”, to the fleeing hordes in the mall ladies restroom, just because you say something, doesn’t necessarily make it true.
Jeff’s recent firing has no impact whatsoever on what transpired last year or my views on it.
In fact, I had been informed from the very outset that Jeff’s inclusion into the band was going to be a tough sell due to some principal players involved.
I know you want nothing more than to settle the score from last year, where you weighed in on the wrong side of the tape argument, but you're haggling over asshairs.

[Monker]

Jeff’s recent firing has no impact whatsoever on what transpired last year or my views on it.
In fact, I had been informed from the very outset that Jeff’s inclusion into the band was going to be a tough sell due to some principal players involved.

And, if you read my post, I was speaking to the flow of the forum in general...not just you.

A year ago, this forum was nailing Augeri to the cross for his perceived crimes against Journey. Today, there are threads appologizing to him...and post after post cricifying Neal and Jonathan. That isn't a 180?

Again, I'll say the same as I did back then. Blame the BAND...not just Neal and Jonathan. It's the entity, the whole, that is doing these things...not just one or two people.

I know you want nothing more than to settle the score from last year, where you weighed in on the wrong side of the tape argument, but you're haggling over asshairs.

Any side of that argument is the 'wrong' side. A few months ago, Dean was going about saying how everybody should thank him because he 'saved Journey'. Yeah, he saved Journey...sure he did...What Journey?

The biggest problem I had with the 'tape' thing is that there was NO hard evidence offered for it. NONE. Just opinions about this and that. Hey, listen to this and it sounds like this...blah, blah, blah. From that this forum rose up and 'supposedly' got Augeri fired...But, more then that, it stained Journey forever...it is a black mark that will NEVER disapear. It will ALWAYS be there in some way, shape, or form. Dean made sure of that...and now he is trying to do it again with the firing of JSS.

As this forum was going about it nya, nya attitude last year, it didn't think about what it was doing to the whole...alll it cared about was the moment...That Augeri was gone, and hey, it doesn't matter if we pile on some more crap...JSS is the new singer. Now JSS is gone and suddenly those angry and hateful posts are not quite as ammusing...Funny how that works out.

[ArnelRox]

Salmacis99, JSS was a fan of Journey's music since he was a kid & sung it in his solo work - I'm sure he knew those songs forward, backward & upside down.

Good point. I know all the lyrics to many Journey songs myself. I cant sing them well, but when I've been asked to, I try & rarely mess up the lyrics.

[ArnelRox]

what’s really riding that glittery pink spandex thong up your pasty, coagulated buttcheeks right about now,

TNC I missed this so bad. No one makes me laugh more than u babe.

[Dano]

The biggest problem I had with the 'tape' thing is that there was NO hard evidence offered for it. NONE. Just opinions about this and that. Hey, listen to this and it sounds like this...blah, blah, blah. From that this forum rose up and 'supposedly' got Augeri fired...But, more then that, it stained Journey forever...it is a black mark that will NEVER disapear. It will ALWAYS be there in some way, shape, or form. Dean made sure of that...and now he is trying to do it again with the firing of JSS.

As this forum was going about it nya, nya attitude last year, it didn't think about what it was doing to the whole...alll it cared about was the moment...That Augeri was gone, and hey, it doesn't matter if we pile on some more crap...JSS is the new singer. Now JSS is gone and suddenly those angry and hateful posts are not quite as ammusing...Funny how that works out.

Monker,

As usual, I am 100% with you. I'm sure I'm in the minority on the board, but I have to stand with you on this. I was tearing my hair out trying to defend Augeri last summer and attempting to show that the whole band (or at least some of the other members besides Steve) were at fault. I felt awful about what happened to Augeri, and am none too thrilled about what has happened to JSS either, but it is interesting to see the reactions to this. Yes, the circumstances were dissimilar, but us Augeri fans felt the same way as the JSS supporters do now.

My point is not to be smug-it's more to say that we now all equally feel equally disappointed, angry and/or cheated.

I cannot for the life of me believe that we are preparing for vocalist number six. I don't know of one other band that's even come close to that many lead vocalist changes, let alone continued to be successful. Truly boggles the mind, and makes one wonder what in the world these guys are thinking....[/i][/quote]

[Enigma869]

I don't know of one other band that's even come close to that many lead vocalist changes, let alone continued to be successful.

I don't know that anyone can honestly say that Journey has had any real success, since Perry left these guys. They've been nothing more than a non-stop touring, nostalgia act, and that isn't ever going to change! Also, to your larger point...there were many of us who believed the entire band was culpable for the tapegate fiasco, and not just Mr. Augeri! That said, I certainly never for one second felt badly for Augeri. He's a grown man and made a VERY poor choice (along with the rest of the band) to defraud their most loyal fans!

Soto being booted out of Journey does not, and should not turn Steve Augeri into some sort of a martyr! At the very least, he assisted in perpetrating a fraud on all the fans who spent their hard-earned money for concert tickets! As I said earlier in this post, the two situations really couldn't be any more different. The real issue for Neal and Cain to answer isn't why they fired Soto...it's why they ever hired the guy, if he wasn't what they were looking for!


John from Boston

[ArnelRox]

Soto being booted out of Journey does not, and should not turn Steve Augeri into some sort of a martyr!

It would be nice to give him the benefit of the doubt now & realize there may have been a lot more to it than we will ever know.

The real issue for Neal and Cain to answer isn't why they fired Soto...it's why they ever hired the guy, if he wasn't what they were looking for!

I think the answer is obvious. They needed someone who could pull off the DL tour so they didnt lose $$$. When they realized he could, they figured they'd make some more bank in Europe where they knew they were in demand. I guess they felt they couldnt get a guy like Jeff to jump in like that unless they lied & told him he was permanent. What it all boils down to is they used Jeff. Now the scandals are behind them & Jeff made them look good, they can turn around & hire someone easier to manipulate.

[piecesofeight]

I don't know of one other band that's even come close to that many lead vocalist changes, let alone continued to be successful.

I don't know that anyone can honestly say that Journey has had any real success, since Perry left these guys. They've been nothing more than a non-stop touring, nostalgia act, and that isn't ever going to change! Also, to your larger point...there were many of us who believed the entire band was culpable for the tapegate fiasco, and not just Mr. Augeri! That said, I certainly never for one second felt badly for Augeri. He's a grown man and made a VERY poor choice (along with the rest of the band) to defraud their most loyal fans!

Soto being booted out of Journey does not, and should not turn Steve Augeri into some sort of a martyr! At the very least, he assisted in perpetrating a fraud on all the fans who spent their hard-earned money for concert tickets! As I said earlier in this post, the two situations really couldn't be any more different. The real issue for Neal and Cain to answer isn't why they fired Soto...it's why they ever hired the guy, if he wasn't what they were looking for!


John from Boston

Great post.

[piecesofeight]

Soto being booted out of Journey does not, and should not turn Steve Augeri into some sort of a martyr!

It would be nice to give him the benefit of the doubt now & realize there may have been a lot more to it than we will ever know.

[quote]


Agree, but some are saying that he should be 100% off the hook and I still don't understand why. Not trying to be a ass, I really want to understand why.

[Enigma869]

Augeri isn't "off the hook" and shouldn't be! Unless someone can tell me that he had absolutely NOTHING at all to do with the tapegate fiasco (which is going to be quite the arduous task, given it was he singing into a mic that he knew wasn't going out to the audience), he is guilty, guilty, and guilty!

I personally have never said Steve Augeri was a bad guy. In fact, from everything I've ever seen of him...he seemed to be a genuinely nice person and didn't seem to have a mean-spirited bone in his body. Again, this still has nothing at all to do with Soto or what Augeri was a part of! Also, the suggestion that Augeri should be brought back into Journey is ABSURD, given how he exited! I think when the entire Tapegate fiasco was brought to light...the entire band should have just packed it in and hid their heads in shame! I guess Neal's answer to everything is to not answer anything, at all, truthfully! This guy wouldn't know the truth, if it bit him in the ass!

I guess it's now more clear to me than it ever has been why Steve Perry goes OUT OF HIS WAY to mention to ANYONE he is ever talking to that he has had zero association with "the band" since 1998. I always wondered why even in short 5 question interviews I see with Perry, that he ALWAYS manages to work in his disclaimer! I think he simply doesn't want any part of the embarrassment that has become the band he put on the map! Journey never had any credibility before Perry, and he took any credibility they did have, when he left!


John from Boston

[ArnelRox]

Augeri isn't "off the hook" and shouldn't be! Unless someone can tell me that he had absolutely NOTHING at all to do with the tapegate fiasco (which is going to be quite the arduous task, given it was he singing into a mic that he knew wasn't going out to the audience), he is guilty, guilty, and guilty!

I dont know all the facts. But given the way this band treated Jeff, maybe they hung a lawsuit over Augeri's head that he couldnt afford to defend. Maybe he thought he'd get time off & it would end quickly. Then it kept going. Whatever happened it was dirty & they were all in on it. I didnt want to believe that then. I wasnt ready to let my summer Journey concerts go. Jeff made me believe in Journey again. I let it go.

Somehow now I am sure there was a lot more to the Augeri story than we'll ever know. He took the whole blame for whatever went down. I just wish him well & will support his future work. His talent was wasted on Journey. I've seen & heard his work before Journey recently & quite honestly I'm impressed.

All the band was guilty, guilty, guilty. I just didnt want to admit it then.

[Little Lenny]

Sorry...but let me get this straight. Is it being claimed now that Tapegate was ALL Cain and Schon's fault and that Augeri had no idea his vocals weren't being transmitted to the speakers? That Augeri stood there with full integrity and authenticity and was unwittingly cheated on stage by Cain, Schon and Elson?

If so...all I can say is...oh, please.

Look...I know Schon and Cain deserve all the crap they're getting now for JSS...but there's no reason to rewrite history just to make them look extra-villainous...nor to start grovelling to Augeri either. The entire band has to take responsibility for Tapegate. It really is as simple as that - surely!

Actually, what I'm interpreting this to mean is that things aren't as 'black and white' as we were led to believe. I understand there is now information that has surfaced which sheds a new light on things. Augeri didn't do his job. He was physically unable. He doesn't get a pass, IMO. But, perhaps he wasn't the selfish, villainous jerk that he was portrayed to be. I would imagine, like others within the band, that he did what he was told to do. He made a choice. Unfortunately for him and for all of you (I wasn't an SA fan) it was the wrong one. Recent events, however, may help to re-write history a little it seems.

I believed Deano's original claims from day one: that Schon, Cain, Augeri and Elson were all involved in the fraud, that they were ALL villains in this scenario.

It was only after Deano shut his blog that the case started to be made that Augeri was entirely to blame and that Schon had nothing to do with it. Now Augeri is a misunderstood, saint-like figure victimized by the evil senior members of the band.

Anyway...all this flip-flopping aside....the firings of Augeri and JSS were completely different.

In Augeri's case....Journey were defrauding the fans. They got busted. Add to this that the 'tribute strategy' (which Journey are now returning to) had failed - unless you count a career on the nostalgia circuit a success for a band of this stature.

In JSS's case...he did absolutely nothing wrong. He was great with the fans. And the band were moving away from the tribute strategy and there was a revival of sorts. It's hard to understand why they fired him. Whereas Augeri had to go.

Cain and Schon weren't villainous or misguided when they fired Augeri. It was when they hired the guy in '98 to do EXACTLY what they want JSS's replacement to do now.

I see where you're going with this about the Augeri and JSS firing scenario being dissimilar, but there is only one problem, when you are made a scape goat then fired that is just as bad. In the light of that Steve Augeri had a raw deal all the same as JSS. How many of us have done things in a job which were told to do, knowing it was not really what we should be doing. For my part I once got told by MY boss in an old Job that I had to use a service lift for transporting food. Health & saftey rules were being flouted because I was using a lift where I had no means of escape if it broke down, or there was a fire...I did it because I wanted a peaceful life in my job...we all do things we sometimes shouldn't just to keep the workplace happy. That does not exhonerate what Steve Augeri did...and there is also the fact that if the band had not been caught red they would not have made him the scape goat...I think with Augeri, it was a case of united we stand divided we fall. In JSS's chocks away..you're on own pal!