ARRIVAL or TRIAL BY FIRE

[Saint John]

TBF One word, folks....Steve Perry

Dan, I believe that's TWO words

Nope. I just checked...it's one.

[conversationpc]

"Arrival" is the better album, barely.

[Red13JoePa]

TBF is the best Journey record, bar none. Arrival had some strong moments, but would have been somewhat weak without Jack Blades' songwriting contributions.

The Blades (Higher Place, World Gone Wild) and Bazillian (We Will Meet Again) co-writes are phenomenal.
To be fair, no way any of those songs would've been concieved with perry in the band.


A common (and hackneyed) criticism of Raised On Radio (don't take my word, ask the 'bat. He swears by ROR too) is that it's "a perry solo album."

I think that of all the records, TBF is the most like the perry solo album.

[somethingtohide]

A common (and hackneyed) criticism of Raised On Radio (don't take word, ask the 'bat. He swears by ROR too) is that it's "a perry solo album."

.

I've always felt that Raised On Radio was Perry's vision of how Journey should move forward. Or at the very least a Perry/Cain "love child". What makes it still a Journey album besides the name on the album jacket? The only difference I hear between Perry's solo work and Raised On Radio is Neal's guitar. There are no hard rocking songs as on Frontiers or Escape. Not even anything like Perry's solo effort Strung Out. To my ears it's all smooth pop.(except for Neal)

I'd like to hear your perspective of why ROR is still Journey. Seriously. Maybe it would increase my appreciation of the album.

[S.B.N]

If you take off the Perry-rosed sunglasses for 1 second and judge these two albums by a musical standpoint, then ARRIVAL drags TBF right through the snow covered, hard as rock dirt right outside your window. (Unless your in a mild climate)

ARRIVAL gets my vote.

[Gaffguitars]

Two totally different albums. The difference is Steve Perry obviously. I like Message Of Love, IHSBYH, Castles Burning, Can't Tame the Lion, and the title track track better than anything on Arrival. However the rest of the album doesn't come close to most of Arrival. Too many crappy ballads on TBF. Arrival has some crappy ballads too but enough rockers to balance it out. Plus Kiss Me Softly is total class. One of the few Journey ballads I really like. Ballads should soften up a rock album. One or two is enough. So having too many can make it too Adult Contemporary which is TBF. Truth is I can't pick. Depends on my mood I guess.

[ohsherrie]

A common (and hackneyed) criticism of Raised On Radio (don't take word, ask the 'bat. He swears by ROR too) is that it's "a perry solo album."

.

I've always felt that Raised On Radio was Perry's vision of how Journey should move forward. Or at the very least a Perry/Cain "love child". What makes it still a Journey album besides the name on the album jacket? The only difference I hear between Perry's solo work and Raised On Radio is Neal's guitar. There are no hard rocking songs as on Frontiers or Escape. Not even anything like Perry's solo effort Strung Out. To my ears it's all smooth pop.(except for Neal)

I'd like to hear your perspective of why ROR is still Journey. Seriously. Maybe it would increase my appreciation of the album.

Why are Arrival, Red 13 and Generations still called Journey? ROR has much more of the Journey sound than any of them. They sound like somebody trying to sound like Journey but just not quite making it.

[somethingtohide]

A common (and hackneyed) criticism of Raised On Radio (don't take word, ask the 'bat. He swears by ROR too) is that it's "a perry solo album."

.

I've always felt that Raised On Radio was Perry's vision of how Journey should move forward. Or at the very least a Perry/Cain "love child". What makes it still a Journey album besides the name on the album jacket? The only difference I hear between Perry's solo work and Raised On Radio is Neal's guitar. There are no hard rocking songs as on Frontiers or Escape. Not even anything like Perry's solo effort Strung Out. To my ears it's all smooth pop.(except for Neal)

I'd like to hear your perspective of why ROR is still Journey. Seriously. Maybe it would increase my appreciation of the album.

Why are Arrival, Red 13 and Generations still called Journey? ROR has much more of the Journey sound than any of them. They sound like somebody trying to sound like Journey but just not quite making it.

Arrival, Red 13, and Generations all have a more Rock sound to me than ROR. They have that in common with the Perry era work other than ROR.

[ohsherrie]

Why are Arrival, Red 13 and Generations still called Journey? ROR has much more of the Journey sound than any of them. They sound like somebody trying to sound like Journey but just not quite making it.

Arrival, Red 13, and Generations all have a more Rock sound to me than ROR. They have that in common with the Perry era work other than ROR.

Escape was the first album they made that had an overall Rock sound to it. Captured, because of Dixie Highway and the set list overall had a rock sound, but the first three albums didn't, IMO. Frontiers was more rock than Escape, but ROR and TBF were just as Rock as the first three.

Arrival is no more Rock than ROR or TBF. Red 13 is just a mess. Generations has some good rockers on it, but it also has the most boring, uninspired ballads of any Journey album.

[Journey69]

TBF is the best Journey record, bar none. Arrival had some strong moments, but would have been somewhat weak without Jack Blades' songwriting contributions.

The Blades (Higher Place, World Gone Wild) and Bazillian (We Will Meet Again) co-writes are phenomenal.
To be fair, no way any of those songs would've been concieved with perry in the band.


A common (and hackneyed) criticism of Raised On Radio (don't take my word, ask the 'bat. He swears by ROR too) is that it's "a perry solo album."

I think that of all the records, TBF is the most like the perry solo album.

Agree 100%

[Eric]

Trial by Fire.
Unfair as I've never listened to Arrival, nor care to.

Good luck with that.. Your missing out on one of the best albums and I Like Perry for what he brought to Journey and I like what Augeri brought... It is Escape 2000 Just like Neal said..

That's complete bullshit. Arrival is an OK album that sounds somewhat like Journey, but it isn't as good as the worst song on Escape, if you can even find a bad one.

No way Sherrie. Higher Place blows away Dead or Alive for example....

[Eric]

A common (and hackneyed) criticism of Raised On Radio (don't take word, ask the 'bat. He swears by ROR too) is that it's "a perry solo album."

.

I've always felt that Raised On Radio was Perry's vision of how Journey should move forward. Or at the very least a Perry/Cain "love child". What makes it still a Journey album besides the name on the album jacket? The only difference I hear between Perry's solo work and Raised On Radio is Neal's guitar. There are no hard rocking songs as on Frontiers or Escape. Not even anything like Perry's solo effort Strung Out. To my ears it's all smooth pop.(except for Neal)

I'd like to hear your perspective of why ROR is still Journey. Seriously. Maybe it would increase my appreciation of the album.

Why are Arrival, Red 13 and Generations still called Journey? ROR has much more of the Journey sound than any of them. They sound like somebody trying to sound like Journey but just not quite making it.

More original members on those 3 than on ROR......

[Journey69]

Why are Arrival, Red 13 and Generations still called Journey? ROR has much more of the Journey sound than any of them. They sound like somebody trying to sound like Journey but just not quite making it.

Arrival, Red 13, and Generations all have a more Rock sound to me than ROR. They have that in common with the Perry era work other than ROR.

Escape was the first album they made that had an overall Rock sound to it. Captured, because of Dixie Highway and the set list overall had a rock sound, but the first three albums didn't, IMO. Frontiers was more rock than Escape, but ROR and TBF were just as Rock as the first three.

Arrival is no more Rock than ROR or TBF. Red 13 is just a mess. Generations has some good rockers on it, but it also has the most boring, uninspired ballads of any Journey album.

Are you out of your F'n mind? Arrival sounds more like Journey than TBF or ROR except for Perry's voice.. Red 13 gets way too much falk.. I really loved Red 13/State of Grace and The Time is awesome!!

[ohsherrie]

Trial by Fire.
Unfair as I've never listened to Arrival, nor care to.

Good luck with that.. Your missing out on one of the best albums and I Like Perry for what he brought to Journey and I like what Augeri brought... It is Escape 2000 Just like Neal said..

That's complete bullshit. Arrival is an OK album that sounds somewhat like Journey, but it isn't as good as the worst song on Escape, if you can even find a bad one.

No way Sherrie. Higher Place blows away Dead or Alive for example....

Sorry Eric, I just don't hear it that way. It's not a bad song but just about any rocker off any Perry fronted album blows it away. To me Arrival is just like Augeri's voice was to me. Close, but just not strong enough.

[conversationpc]

Why are Arrival, Red 13 and Generations still called Journey? ROR has much more of the Journey sound than any of them. They sound like somebody trying to sound like Journey but just not quite making it.

Arrival, Red 13, and Generations all have a more Rock sound to me than ROR. They have that in common with the Perry era work other than ROR.

Escape was the first album they made that had an overall Rock sound to it. Captured, because of Dixie Highway and the set list overall had a rock sound, but the first three albums didn't, IMO. Frontiers was more rock than Escape, but ROR and TBF were just as Rock as the first three.

Arrival is no more Rock than ROR or TBF. Red 13 is just a mess. Generations has some good rockers on it, but it also has the most boring, uninspired ballads of any Journey album.

I disagree. "Arrival" may have as many ballads as "Trial By Fire" but it still feels like more of a rock album overall, in my opinion.

[conversationpc]

Why are Arrival, Red 13 and Generations still called Journey? ROR has much more of the Journey sound than any of them. They sound like somebody trying to sound like Journey but just not quite making it.

Arrival, Red 13, and Generations all have a more Rock sound to me than ROR. They have that in common with the Perry era work other than ROR.

Escape was the first album they made that had an overall Rock sound to it. Captured, because of Dixie Highway and the set list overall had a rock sound, but the first three albums didn't, IMO. Frontiers was more rock than Escape, but ROR and TBF were just as Rock as the first three.

Arrival is no more Rock than ROR or TBF. Red 13 is just a mess. Generations has some good rockers on it, but it also has the most boring, uninspired ballads of any Journey album.

Are you out of your F'n mind? Arrival sounds more like Journey than TBF or ROR except for Perry's voice.. Red 13 gets way too much falk.. I really loved Red 13/State of Grace and The Time is awesome!!

Agreed. "Red 13" would sound worlds better if the production were half way decent. I seriously think they should've just waited and included those tracks as part of "Generations" and left off the tracks sung by Cain, Schon, & Ross.

[ohsherrie]

Are you out of your F'n mind?

No, who's mind are you out of?

Arrival sounds more like Journey than TBF or ROR except for Perry's voice.. Red 13 gets way too much falk.. I really loved Red 13/State of Grace and The Time is awesome!!

Maybe what one hears as the "Journey sound" is as individualized as the the various albums. Yes to me Arrival has a Journeyeque sound. The first time I listened to it I got the feeling that I was listening to a good band do a good job of trying to sound like Journey, but not quite making it.

I honestly believe that a lot(not all, but a lot) of people who profess to think it's bettter than one or more of the Perry/Journey albums only do so out of defensivness over Frig and Fro's decision to go on without Perry. I really have a hard time believing that anyone who was a fan of Perry/Journey could possibly think anything they've done since is better. I just don't buy it. There are people who were fans before Perry and some who only became fans since 1998, but I can't imagine anyone who was a fan of the Perry fronted albums thinking anything else that's trying to sound like that can be better.

Maybe that's just me though. If you honestly think it is, that's you, and I'm glad it's not me.

[conversationpc]

I honestly believe that a lot(not all, but a lot) of people who profess to think it's bettter than one or more of the Perry/Journey albums only do so out of defensivness over Frig and Fro's decision to go on without Perry. I really have a hard time believing that anyone who was a fan of Perry/Journey could possibly think anything they've done since is better. I just don't buy it. There are people who were fans before Perry and some who only became fans since 1998, but I can't imagine anyone who was a fan of the Perry fronted albums thinking anything else that's trying to sound like that can be better.

You may honestly believe it but it is not honestly so. I like "Arrival" better than either "Trial By Fire" or "Raised on Radio" and there's no "defensiveness" to it.

[ohsherrie]

I honestly believe that a lot(not all, but a lot) of people who profess to think it's bettter than one or more of the Perry/Journey albums only do so out of defensivness over Frig and Fro's decision to go on without Perry. I really have a hard time believing that anyone who was a fan of Perry/Journey could possibly think anything they've done since is better. I just don't buy it. There are people who were fans before Perry and some who only became fans since 1998, but I can't imagine anyone who was a fan of the Perry fronted albums thinking anything else that's trying to sound like that can be better.

You may honestly believe it but it is not honestly so. I like "Arrival" better than either "Trial By Fire" or "Raised on Radio" and there's no "defensiveness" to it.

I've already addressed that eventuality, but you didn't quote this line:

Maybe that's just me though. If you honestly think it is, that's you, and I'm glad it's not me.

[jrnyman28]

Why are Arrival, Red 13 and Generations still called Journey? ROR has much more of the Journey sound than any of them. They sound like somebody trying to sound like Journey but just not quite making it.

Only if you think Journey's "sound" is Perry's voice...

[jrnyman28]

Agreed. "Red 13" would sound worlds better if the production were half way decent. I seriously think they should've just waited and included those tracks as part of "Generations" and left off the tracks sung by Cain, Schon, & Ross.

I second THAT!! I love RED13 and think it would have been great if the production had been better...

[jrnyman28]

I honestly believe that a lot(not all, but a lot) of people who profess to think it's bettter than one or more of the Perry/Journey albums only do so out of defensivness over Frig and Fro's decision to go on without Perry.

That may have been true 1998-@2002 but I hardly think that would be the case today.

[ohsherrie]

Why are Arrival, Red 13 and Generations still called Journey? ROR has much more of the Journey sound than any of them. They sound like somebody trying to sound like Journey but just not quite making it.

Only if you think Journey's "sound" is Perry's voice...

I think it's about 90% of it. There are those who think it's all or mostly Neal's guitar sound. I don't see why it's considered more legitimate by some to think it's mostly the guitar than the voice when it was the voice that propelled them into success.

[ohsherrie]

I honestly believe that a lot(not all, but a lot) of people who profess to think it's bettter than one or more of the Perry/Journey albums only do so out of defensivness over Frig and Fro's decision to go on without Perry.

That may have been true 1998-@2002 but I hardly think that would be the case today.

I think there was a lot more of it then, but there is still some of that going on today. Some I think may just be a case of having to continue saying it to keep from admitting they didn't really mean it to begin with.

[jrnyman28]

I think the music as a whole conveys the signature sound. I think of the vocals as a great paint job on an already COOL car.

[NealIsGod]

I don't see why it's considered more legitimate by some to think it's mostly the guitar than the voice when it was the voice that propelled them into success.

Because Neal is the only member who has been in the band since its conception. His work is on every song Journey has ever recorded and every concert the band has ever played.

That answer your question, Sher?

[ohsherrie]

I don't see why it's considered more legitimate by some to think it's mostly the guitar than the voice when it was the voice that propelled them into success.

Because Neal is the only member who has been in the band since its conception. His work is on every song Journey has ever recorded and every concert the band has ever played.

That answer your question, Sher?

That's the answer I would have expected from Neal Is God.

[ohsherrie]

I think the music as a whole conveys the signature sound. I think of the vocals as a great paint job on an already COOL car.

What's the first thing most women look at on a new car?

[conversationpc]

I've already addressed that eventuality, but you didn't quote this line:

Maybe that's just me though. If you honestly think it is, that's you, and I'm glad it's not me.

I didn't need to quote that line. I was telling you that it was just you.

[somethingtohide]

Escape was the first album they made that had an overall Rock sound to it. Captured, because of Dixie Highway and the set list overall had a rock sound, but the first three albums didn't, IMO. Frontiers was more rock than Escape, but ROR and TBF were just as Rock as the first three.

Arrival is no more Rock than ROR or TBF. Red 13 is just a mess. Generations has some good rockers on it, but it also has the most boring, uninspired ballads of any Journey album.

If you are talking about the first three Perry albums not sounding like Rock I would have to disagree. The following songs off Infinity, Evolution, and Departure all sound like Rock to me.

La Do Da
Wheel In The Sky
Something To Hide

Majestic
When You're Alone
Loving You Is Easy
Just The Same Way
Do You Recall
Lady Luck

Anyway You Want It
Where Were You
Line Of Fire Homemade Love

If I've misunderstood and you are referring to the first 3 Journey albums to the extent that I'm familiar with them I would still call them Progressive Rock.

As far as Arrival is concerned, even thought it is ballad heavy, I would still put it into the Rock category.


Anyway, you and I do agree on Generations. I think it's Journey's weakest album.