Ok, fess up

[mistiejourney]

I hope all of your bosses fired you after you first day of work.
Those who wanted to see Arnel fail, saw exactly that. Those who wanted him to do a good job, saw exactly that.
It is completely unreasonable to expect perfection at Arnel's first show. If you do, then you have never performed on a stage and understand all that plays into having a steady performance. That is not an excuse, as many of you simply standing on that stage would sh1t a brick, let alone have to sing Perry's back catalog in front of that many people.

Plus, if you hate them so much, why take time to come here and complain. They have already lived up to your low expectations. It seems like youre torturing yourself. For those who hate Arnel, it is not gonna get any better from a "someone else singing Perry's songs" perspective.

Oh and JSS isnt in the band anymore. All the JSS if, if, if threads dont matter. If my uncle had tits he would be my aunt.

I will see them live. Arnel has good energy and will do just fine.

Maybe it's just me, but for the most part the comments have been honest. I don't hate Arnel, thought it wasn't great and am willing to suspend judgment for awhile until he grows into the role. If he still sounds like this in a few months, well that's what we'll see. Some folks who love Arnel thought he was a bit rough.

So, it sounds like there are three opinions here (1) He did great! or (2) A little rough, but there's a diamond under there and (3) Not impressed or not impressed yet.

Truly, I haven't seen hate anywhere. I've seen opinions and a willingness to watch how this plays out.

[Deb]

I hope all of your bosses fired you after you first day of work.
Those who wanted to see Arnel fail, saw exactly that. Those who wanted him to do a good job, saw exactly that.
It is completely unreasonable to expect perfection at Arnel's first show. If you do, then you have never performed on a stage and understand all that plays into having a steady performance. That is not an excuse, as many of you simply standing on that stage would sh1t a brick, let alone have to sing Perry's back catalog in front of that many people.

Plus, if you hate them so much, why take time to come here and complain. They have already lived up to your low expectations. It seems like youre torturing yourself. For those who hate Arnel, it is not gonna get any better from a "someone else singing Perry's songs" perspective.

Oh and JSS isnt in the band anymore. All the JSS if, if, if threads dont matter. If my uncle had tits he would be my aunt.

I will see them live. Arnel has good energy and will do just fine.

Maybe it's just me, but for the most part the comments have been honest. I don't hate Arnel, thought it wasn't great and am willing to suspend judgment for awhile until he grows into the role. If he still sounds like this in a few months, well that's what we'll see. Some folks who love Arnel thought he was a bit rough.

So, it sounds like there are three opinions here (1) He did great! or (2) A little rough, but there's a diamond under there and (3) Not impressed or not impressed yet.

Truly, I haven't seen hate anywhere. I've seen opinions and a willingness to watch how this plays out.

Exactly mistie! I didn't want to see him fail and I don't think he did. I'm not seeing a whole lot of hate either, just a bunch of differing opinions on the show. Everything from dancing on the tables fabulous to not impressed. It's all good. But calling people haters because they weren't absolutely raving about it is ludicrous.

[Behshad]

Stoneyman
go fuck yourself
Its not like it was his first day as a singer on stage. He has been on stage many times before, but last nite he didnt deliver.
Jeff did much better on his first show, and he had to do this within few days.
Arnie had months to practice.... it was far from perfect, but far from complete failure,
He will get better as time goes, for sure, but ONE ingredient that was missing that he can not gain by time is STAGE PRESENCE and ENERGY.,,,, So no matter how exact he can hit all those notes, and how much he can sound exactly like Perry, he will be a perry wanna be puppet, without STAGE PRESENCE and ENERGY that the band had a year ago.....

[conversationpc]

Jeff did much better on his first show, and he had to do this within few days.

I heard Jeff's first show and still have a boot of it...He sounded like crap, worse than Arnel in last night's show. Sorry, but that's the facts. I wish Jeff was still in the band, but he isn't. He sounded much better with rest and getting used to in-ear monitors and I believe Arnel will do the same.

He will get better as time goes, for sure, but ONE ingredient that was missing that he can not gain by time is STAGE PRESENCE and ENERGY.,,,,

He did fine in that department last night. Not quite as animated as JSS but, then again, who is?

[Enigma869]

I guess I'll never really understand the criticism that Journey isn't this "hard rocking" band, or isn't "edgy" enough. I've been a Journey fan since the late 1970's, and I've certainly never really considered Journey or their music to be "hard rock" or "edgy". I mean let's be honest here...their highest charting singles have been songs like "Open Arms", "Faithfully", "When You Love A Woman", "Who's Cryin' Now", etc. I think there are plenty of things to criticize Journey about, but asking them to re-invent what their music has always been is bordering on insanity!

As for the criticism that they're too "ballad heavy", I've never really understood that, either. Hell, I think Journey is the band who invented the "power ballad". I don't know of any other band that so skillfully weaves great sounding guitar into a ballad (minus Open Arms), as Journey has always done! I'm on record as saying I think "Open Arms" is one of the most syrupy, soul-less, cheesey, suck-ass songs I have ever heard in my entire life, but it also managed to be their highest charting song, EVER, so their formula obviously worked for them!

I can tell you this...I haven't heard Aerosmith's sound change at all over the years. They sound like the same band to me today, that they sounded like 30 years ago. I just don't buy into the theory that every old band has to re-invent themselves. In fact, I would say that it's almost never a good idea to change the formula that made you successful. Look at the guys who are calling themselves "Queen" today. I think they're DREADFUL, and don't hold a candle to the legacy of Freddie Mercury! Even the classic songs that Mercury made famous with his voice sound like shit now! I know all the Paul Rodgers fans think the guy is this rock icon. He may well be (not in my world), but it doesn't change the fact that he simply can't sing classic Queen material! I'd listen to the dude I heard on "American Idol" singing "Bohemian Rhapsody" over Rodgers, ALL DAY LONG!

Most of the fans are fans of the music. You need to look no further than the fact that the Journey brand name keeps making a shitload of money on the road, performing all of the hits that were made famous by Perry's voice. The songs are so etched into everyone's mind that "Journey" could roll out a new singer every other night (like Chalfant suggested in his interview with Andrew), and most concert attendees would never notice the difference. At this point, it's simply "brand recognition" that is selling tickets. If Neal called this the "Neal Schon Experience", and still advertised all the same songs being played, they wouldn't sell out a high school cafeteria!


John from Boston[/list]

[StoneCold]

Most of the fans are fans of the music. You need to look no further than the fact that the Journey brand name keeps making a shitload of money on the road, performing all of the hits that were made famous by Perry's voice. The songs are so etched into everyone's mind that "Journey" could roll out a new singer every other night (like Chalfant suggested in his interview with Andrew), and most concert attendees would never notice the difference. At this point, it's simply "brand recognition" that is selling tickets. If Neal called this the "Neal Schon Experience", and still advertised all the same songs being played, they wouldn't sell out a high school cafeteria!


John from Boston[/list]

Good post. Anyone else notice there didn't seem to be an empty seat at the Chile concert?

[youkeepmewaiting]

If you remember though back in 98, Augeri sounded good, but had little stage presence. He.....for the most part......stayed in one place and the only thing he really did was all that crazy dancing, which was almost more distracting than entertaining. It wasnt until a few years later that he was running all over the stage, jumping and sitting on Cain's piano, and really "owning" all of the songs. I think 2000-2001 were his peak years.

I guess this is where technology is good or bad. Arnel has the opportunity to see an immeidate response. Unfortunately you can be judged on some mediocre recordings, but it also gives you a chance to improve.

Steve A didn't have that chance, but you know what he didn't need it. He just went out there and sang his heart out and earned the love of a huge audience.

Steve A sang a hell of aot better than Arnel, period, he even put his own persona , Arnel did a bad imatation, and couldnd even sustain the high notes, They made the wrong choice I knew it was going down thank you

You know why JH sometimes get stick on this forum..its because of dorks like you. Making out that he is the best thing since sliced bread and being ignorant to AP's talents. People have to come on here and tell you that Jeremy is not all that great , he is a very good singer no doubt, and im not slagging him off, but he is not as good as AP. Infact i like JHs vocals alot but its easy to hear who has the more talent, and better control over his voice (did you hear JH version of Suzanne?!)

[Aaron]

Dude,

You're doing the wrong comparison. I don't think the dude is that good yet but I will go see them live to give them a fair shake and I'll buy the CD, even if it is shit, because I love that band. How about this instead:

A. Does Journey give a you wood with Arnel like a great band should?
B. Is Arnel another poser allowing Journey to further milk the fans?

How about that?

L8r,

Aaron

[Liquid_Drummer]

Oh and if anyone wants to compare AP's first with SA's first show, we can do that too.

Deano... That says it all right there. This guy is going to knock it out of the fucking park soon. Talk about a trial by fire !! 1st show in front of that many people !! Yes there were some shaky moments but come on now... What time zone is chile in anyway ? Were they jet lagged at all. Was it 9am in their minds ? IF thats the case Arnel gets way more slack because anyone that plays or sings can tell you 1st hand that playing or singing in the morning SUCKS BALLS.

The band was fucking hyped. Did you notice all the big smiles from Neal and Jon ? Shit the whole band was smiling way more than I have seen them smile in a long time and the sounded very fired up..

This could be the start of something very good.

[stevew2]

If you remember though back in 98, Augeri sounded good, but had little stage presence. He.....for the most part......stayed in one place and the only thing he really did was all that crazy dancing, which was almost more distracting than entertaining. It wasnt until a few years later that he was running all over the stage, jumping and sitting on Cain's piano, and really "owning" all of the songs. I think 2000-2001 were his peak years.

I guess this is where technology is good or bad. Arnel has the opportunity to see an immeidate response. Unfortunately you can be judged on some mediocre recordings, but it also gives you a chance to improve.

Steve A didn't have that chance, but you know what he didn't need it. He just went out there and sang his heart out and earned the love of a huge audience.

Steve A sang a hell of aot better than Arnel, period, he even put his own persona , Arnel did a bad imatation, and couldnd even sustain the high notes, They made the wrong choice I knew it was going down thank you

Clean out your ears


You know why JH sometimes get stick on this forum..its because of dorks like you. Making out that he is the best thing since sliced bread and being ignorant to AP's talents. People have to come on here and tell you that Jeremy is not all that great , he is a very good singer no doubt, and im not slagging him off, but he is not as good as AP. Infact i like JHs vocals alot but its easy to hear who has the more talent, and better control over his voice (did you hear JH version of Suzanne?!)

[StoneCold]

Neal sounded damn good as well.

[Saint John]

I'm getting sick and tired of this "stage presence" nonsense and "working the crowd." You wanna "work me" as a crowd member? Come off the fucking stage and give me a hand job or suck my dick. But if you're not going to do that just sing the fucking songs...that's what the lead singer is supposed to do. That's what Perry did. For the most part, he stood there and sang the songs. Personally, that's all I want. If you're not "into" the show, it's probably because you aren't enjoying the vocals and musicianship. If you need the lead singer to "work" you, then either he sucks, the band behind him sucks, or they both suck.

[stevew2]

Jeff did much better on his first show, and he had to do this within few days.

I heard Jeff's first show and still have a boot of it...He sounded like crap, worse than Arnel in last night's show. Sorry, but that's the facts. I wish Jeff was still in the band, but he isn't. He sounded much better with rest and getting used to in-ear monitors and I believe Arnel will do the same.

He will get better as time goes, for sure, but ONE ingredient that was missing that he can not gain by time is STAGE PRESENCE and ENERGY.,,,,

He did fine in that department last night. Not quite as animated as JSS but, then again, who is?

Do you have some clips, I was at that show ,and didnt think it was bad at all,better than what I heard a few nights ago

[YoungJRNY]

I'm getting sick and tired of this "stage presence" nonsense and "working the crowd." You wanna "work me" as a crowd member? Come off the fucking stage and give me a hand job or suck my dick. But if you're not going to do that just sing the fucking songs...that's what the lead singer is supposed to do. That's what Perry did. For the most part, he stood there and sang the songs. Personally, that's all I want. If you're not "into" the show, it's probably because you aren't enjoying the vocals and musicianship. If you need the lead singer to "work" you, then either he sucks, the band behind him sucks, or they both suck.

lmao, BRAVO

[T-TIME]

I'm getting sick and tired of this "stage presence" nonsense and "working the crowd." You wanna "work me" as a crowd member? Come off the fucking stage and give me a hand job or suck my dick. But if you're not going to do that just sing the fucking songs...that's what the lead singer is supposed to do. That's what Perry did. For the most part, he stood there and sang the songs. Personally, that's all I want. If you're not "into" the show, it's probably because you aren't enjoying the vocals and musicianship. If you need the lead singer to "work" you, then either he sucks, the band behind him sucks, or they both suck.

SJ, Your my boy, but to say" He stood there." SP never slowed down the entire show.

[Saint John]

I'm getting sick and tired of this "stage presence" nonsense and "working the crowd." You wanna "work me" as a crowd member? Come off the fucking stage and give me a hand job or suck my dick. But if you're not going to do that just sing the fucking songs...that's what the lead singer is supposed to do. That's what Perry did. For the most part, he stood there and sang the songs. Personally, that's all I want. If you're not "into" the show, it's probably because you aren't enjoying the vocals and musicianship. If you need the lead singer to "work" you, then either he sucks, the band behind him sucks, or they both suck.

SJ, Your my boy, but to say" He stood there." SP never slowed down the entire show.

I said "For the most part.." Show me these clips you speak of, please. This is a very typical Perry song and how much he walked around. Notice there are no over the top shenanigans, mic tossing and all that other silly shit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ip1zsUIosoA

[T-TIME]

I'm getting sick and tired of this "stage presence" nonsense and "working the crowd." You wanna "work me" as a crowd member? Come off the fucking stage and give me a hand job or suck my dick. But if you're not going to do that just sing the fucking songs...that's what the lead singer is supposed to do. That's what Perry did. For the most part, he stood there and sang the songs. Personally, that's all I want. If you're not "into" the show, it's probably because you aren't enjoying the vocals and musicianship. If you need the lead singer to "work" you, then either he sucks, the band behind him sucks, or they both suck.

SJ, Your my boy, but to say" He stood there." SP never slowed down the entire show.

I said "For the most part.." Show me these clips you speak of, please. This is a very typical Perry song and how much he walked around. Notice there are no over the top shenanigans, mic tossing and all that other silly shit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ip1zsUIosoA

I didn't say he was fucking " MC Hammer ." Journey in those days seem like 5 guys from the neighborhood playing there songs. I would never compare shows. Watch that whole dvd and then get back to me

[YoungJRNY]

I'm getting sick and tired of this "stage presence" nonsense and "working the crowd." You wanna "work me" as a crowd member? Come off the fucking stage and give me a hand job or suck my dick. But if you're not going to do that just sing the fucking songs...that's what the lead singer is supposed to do. That's what Perry did. For the most part, he stood there and sang the songs. Personally, that's all I want. If you're not "into" the show, it's probably because you aren't enjoying the vocals and musicianship. If you need the lead singer to "work" you, then either he sucks, the band behind him sucks, or they both suck.

SJ, Your my boy, but to say" He stood there." SP never slowed down the entire show.

The only thing I got on Steve Perry is to watch you tube clips. He is electrifying, no question. He never stops. But the vocals, he shys away from full vocal compatibility. He seems to chop his own vocals up and seems to abbreviate everything vocally. I'm not right or wrong, just going by what I hear, or what I seem to hear. I'm no specialist. Steve Perry could get away with anything, they are his songs, but at times, and I mean LIVE, the replacement singers sang songs better and held out the notes the way they were supposed to be sung. Perry seemed to sometimes talk through songs, but had enough power to sing it also. It's hard to explain. Perry live vocally sometimes is no different than JSS, Augeri, or Arnel.

I'm just trying to figure out which ever replacement is in there, WHAT EXACTLY do they have to do to be considered...good? By the efforts by Pineda the other night, it seemed fine to me. I unno..it's hard to figure what you people want.

[T-TIME]

I'm getting sick and tired of this "stage presence" nonsense and "working the crowd." You wanna "work me" as a crowd member? Come off the fucking stage and give me a hand job or suck my dick. But if you're not going to do that just sing the fucking songs...that's what the lead singer is supposed to do. That's what Perry did. For the most part, he stood there and sang the songs. Personally, that's all I want. If you're not "into" the show, it's probably because you aren't enjoying the vocals and musicianship. If you need the lead singer to "work" you, then either he sucks, the band behind him sucks, or they both suck.

SJ, Your my boy, but to say" He stood there." SP never slowed down the entire show.

The only thing I got on Steve Perry is to watch you tube clips. He is electrifying, no question. He never stops. But the vocals, he shys away from full vocal compatibility. He seems to chop his own vocals up and seems to abbreviate everything vocally. I'm not right or wrong, just going by what I hear, or what I seem to hear. I'm no specialist. Steve Perry could get away with anything, they are his songs, but at times, and I mean LIVE, the replacement singers sang songs better and held out the notes the way they were supposed to be sung. Perry seemed to sometimes talk through songs, but had enough power to sing it also. It's hard to explain. Perry live vocally sometimes is no different than JSS, Augeri, or Arnel.

I'm just trying to figure out which ever replacement is in there, WHAT EXACTLY do they have to do to be considered...good? By the efforts by Pineda the other night, it seemed fine to me. I unno..it's hard to figure what you people want.

Get back to work.

[treetopovskaya]

steve perry says "c'mon!" too much. };C))

[Behshad]

SJ
If you're just happy with the singer just standing and singing, thats your prefrence, buddy.
Since you want the Perry sound,, just grab a cd,,, and pull up a pic of the band on stage from Perry era on your pc, open a brewsky and enjoy the show!
Stage presnece on a LIVE show aint too much too ask dude. Thats what the stage is there for!!!!
I dont go to the show just for the vocals....If there isnt ENERGY coming from the stage, there's no reason for me to be there.
I think the only reason you put up with it is cause youre a diehard Journey fan.
And the reason I dont approve of it, is cause Im used to the energy pouring all over, when JSS is on stage and its hard to go back to anything less.

Lets learn to agree on not agreeing on everything !

[Saint John]

SJ
If you're just happy with the singer just standing and singing, thats your prefrence, buddy.
Since you want the Perry sound,, just grab a cd,,, and pull up a pic of the band on stage from Perry era on your pc, open a brewsky and enjoy the show!
Stage presnece on a LIVE show aint too much too ask dude. Thats what the stage is there for!!!!
I dont go to the show just for the vocals....If there isnt ENERGY coming from the stage, there's no reason for me to be there.
I think the only reason you put up with it is cause youre a diehard Journey fan.
And the reason I dont approve of it, is cause Im used to the energy pouring all over, when JSS is on stage and its hard to go back to anything less.

Lets learn to agree on not agreeing on everything !

1) Arnel sounds NOTHING like Perry and I don't think he tries to. Jeremey tries to sound like Perry, which in all fairness is what he's supposed to do. I have no problem with that.

2) Energy comes from the music, not silly stage antics. Jeff's show was no better or worse whether or not I was watching him or watching Neal. Personally, his running around, sweat vaulting, and mic tossing did nothing for me. Not a knock, just an observation. I think Jeff had too much and Augeri had too little. Jeff acted like he was fronting Van Halen, KISS or Motley Crue and Augeri acted like he was fronting Abba or Air Supply. Neither, to me, acted like they were fronting Journey.

[Rockindeano]

Disagree.

JSS likes to do what he does. Perry had that refuckindiculous backwards circle dance thing going on....Each guy has their own thing.

Energy is lit by the frontman.

Case in point. Remember 2 years ago, Augeri led Journey was boring as Hell. JSS stood in and lit a fire under all their asses. Hell, they went from "Please don't fuck up the show" during the Lippard tour, to wiping the stage with Lippards ass nightly. He(Jeff), made that band better, more alive.

[treetopovskaya]

sweat vaulting? sbj that was the best part! };C))

[Saint John]

Disagree.

JSS likes to do what he does. Perry had that refuckindiculous backwards circle dance thing going on....Each guy has their own thing.

Energy is lit by the frontman.

Case in point. Remember 2 years ago, Augeri led Journey was boring as Hell. JSS stood in and lit a fire under all their asses. Hell, they went from "Please don't fuck up the show" during the Lippard tour, to wiping lippards ass nightly. He(Jeff), made that band better, more alive.

I just thought it to be a bit out of place within Journey. Liked it in Soul Sirkus though, as it seemed to be a better fit. And I disagree that his "stage antics" made them "alive," but rather, his singing...and the fact that someone actually was singing live!!!

[ttango1]

Arnie had months to practice.... it was far from perfect, but far from complete failure,

I know he did practice. BUT...I'm not sure that Arnel practiced straight for 2 months. There is definitely a break in there of some length. The Libertore article dated 12-27-07 says that Arnel was about to catch a plane to the Philippines. While there, he did manage to do 2 shows in Manila in late January(youtube places the performance taping in late January) and do a few talk shows as well. So you have to factor that in plus travel time, unless of course, there is a scarab spaceship that can jump to lightspeed and get him there lickety-split.

I think right now, the guy is a diamond in the rough, and once the master craftsmen that is the rest of the band get him cut up, that guy is going to go high on the 4C's scale of diamonds.

[Enigma869]

2) Jeff acted like he was fronting Van Halen, KISS or Motley Crue and Augeri acted like he was fronting Abba or Air Supply. Neither, to me, acted like they were fronting Journey.

Spot on dude! I agree with this wholehearedly! For the record, I liked Jeff, on a personal level. One thing I have never really understood is the endless people who wanted Jeff to take Journey in a more "hard rocking direction". If that's what you're looking for, go listen to VH or Motley Crue! I hate to sound like a broken record, but that's not who Journey has been for 30+ years, so I really don't get the wisdom in changing direction and becoming something you've never been!


John from Boston

[Rockindeano]

Disagree.

JSS likes to do what he does. Perry had that refuckindiculous backwards circle dance thing going on....Each guy has their own thing.

Energy is lit by the frontman.

Case in point. Remember 2 years ago, Augeri led Journey was boring as Hell. JSS stood in and lit a fire under all their asses. Hell, they went from "Please don't fuck up the show" during the Lippard tour, to wiping lippards ass nightly. He(Jeff), made that band better, more alive.

I just thought it to be a bit out of place within Journey. Liked it in Soul Sirkus though, as it seemed to be a better fit. And I disagree that his "stage antics" made them "alive," but rather, his singing...and the fact that someone actually was singing live!!!

I know those guys Dan. They were aging faster than fast with SA, and once he came in, they were young again. I remember talking to Mary Valory about this and I told her, "So is Ross 34 or 54?" She laughed and concurred, that yes, Soto made them all feel so young and alive again.

[Saint John]

Disagree.

JSS likes to do what he does. Perry had that refuckindiculous backwards circle dance thing going on....Each guy has their own thing.

Energy is lit by the frontman.

Case in point. Remember 2 years ago, Augeri led Journey was boring as Hell. JSS stood in and lit a fire under all their asses. Hell, they went from "Please don't fuck up the show" during the Lippard tour, to wiping lippards ass nightly. He(Jeff), made that band better, more alive.

I just thought it to be a bit out of place within Journey. Liked it in Soul Sirkus though, as it seemed to be a better fit. And I disagree that his "stage antics" made them "alive," but rather, his singing...and the fact that someone actually was singing live!!!

I know those guys Dan. They were aging faster than fast with SA, and once he came in, they were young again. I remember talking to Mary Valory about this and I told her, "So is Ross 34 or 54?" She laughed and concurred, that yes, Soto made them all feel so young and alive again.

Valid. I still contend that a LARGE part, if not most of that, was due to the monkey of not playing live finally being off of their backs. It had to be a huge relief. Fake shows, potential litigation, and a singer with no voice couldn't have a been much fun on a day to day basis.

[yulog]

I'm getting sick and tired of this "stage presence" nonsense and "working the crowd." You wanna "work me" as a crowd member? Come off the fucking stage and give me a hand job or suck my dick. But if you're not going to do that just sing the fucking songs...that's what the lead singer is supposed to do. That's what Perry did. For the most part, he stood there and sang the songs. Personally, that's all I want. If you're not "into" the show, it's probably because you aren't enjoying the vocals and musicianship. If you need the lead singer to "work" you, then either he sucks, the band behind him sucks, or they both suck.

All i can say is ,theres a lot of sucking going on in this post.