Caveman's Latest

[finalfight]

allen,, dang man.. your BATMAN dude,,

love to read your stuff!! outstanding..

Where does he get those wonderful toys...?!

[larryfromnextdoor]

allen,, dang man.. your BATMAN dude,,

love to read your stuff!! outstanding..

Where does he get those wonderful toys...?!

[ProgRocker53]

Thanks a MILLION, Allen. You were able to do, and be a part of, what most of us can only dream about!!! Thanks for your contributions, man. Hey, one question...Did Perry insist on layered background vox with just him, was that just assumed or did the guys want "real" background vox. To my ears, like ROR, it's just layers of Perry and no one else.

I can actually pick out Cain on IBAWY

[Saint John]

Thanks a MILLION, Allen. You were able to do, and be a part of, what most of us can only dream about!!! Thanks for your contributions, man. Hey, one question...Did Perry insist on layered background vox with just him, was that just assumed or did the guys want "real" background vox. To my ears, like ROR, it's just layers of Perry and no one else.

I can actually pick out Cain on IBAWY

Only the live version I think.

[larryfromnextdoor]

Thanks a MILLION, Allen. You were able to do, and be a part of, what most of us can only dream about!!! Thanks for your contributions, man. Hey, one question...Did Perry insist on layered background vox with just him, was that just assumed or did the guys want "real" background vox. To my ears, like ROR, it's just layers of Perry and no one else.

I can actually pick out Cain on IBAWY

i always thought that was Neal singing that part.. it wasnt until that i saw that Baltimore JSS show that it hit me that it was Cain..

[ProgRocker53]

One of the few things I dislike about Journey (TBF/ROR) and JSS as well is a lack of "real" background vocals. It kinda bugs me to hear a million Perrys or a million JSSes in every chorus.

[Saint John]

Thanks a MILLION, Allen. You were able to do, and be a part of, what most of us can only dream about!!! Thanks for your contributions, man. Hey, one question...Did Perry insist on layered background vox with just him, was that just assumed or did the guys want "real" background vox. To my ears, like ROR, it's just layers of Perry and no one else.

I can actually pick out Cain on IBAWY

i always thought that was Neal singing that part.. it wasnt until that i saw that Baltimore JSS show that it hit me that it was Cain..

I definitely hear Neal on the live version. I'm in the minority here, but I actually like Neal's voice for background. He's got a more than serviceable voice. Dude can sing a bit...Friga not so much.

[cookieduster]

I definitely hear Neal on the live version. I'm in the minority here, but I actually like Neal's voice for background. He's got a more than serviceable voice. Dude can sing a bit...Friga not so much.

No way he can sing after all the cigarettes he's digested, but nice of you to pay him some sort of compliment.

[Saint John]

I definitely hear Neal on the live version. I'm in the minority here, but I actually like Neal's voice for background. He's got a more than serviceable voice. Dude can sing a bit...Friga not so much.

No way he can sing after all the cigarettes he's digested, but nice of you to pay him some sort of compliment.

I don't care if he's butt-fucking The Marlboro Man, to me he still sounds good on background vocals.

[cookieduster]

I definitely hear Neal on the live version. I'm in the minority here, but I actually like Neal's voice for background. He's got a more than serviceable voice. Dude can sing a bit...Friga not so much.

No way he can sing after all the cigarettes he's digested, but nice of you to pay him some sort of compliment.

I don't care if he's butt-fucking The Marlboro Man, to me he still sounds good on background vocals.

You think you can actually pick out Neal's voice in the background. Okay, sure fine.

[AlienC]

Thanks a MILLION, Allen. You were able to do, and be a part of, what most of us can only dream about!!! Thanks for your contributions, man.

Well, thank you for saying so. It is a indeed a profound paradox to be involved with such stellar talent, and to accept a priori the fact that those contributions will go unheralded, at least publicly or even more poignantly, someone else will accept credit for.
That "dream" we speak of is only obvious in hind sight. I lived the same "Cinderella Story" that Augeri did, and that Arnel now is experiencing.
I was OUT of the music business and on my way to a General Contractor's License and turning a growing Systems Integration, Electrical and Framing business into what is now The Home Theatre / Wired Home game.
In "traditional American Business" one used to take on their father's trade. Mine is a Nuclear Electronics Engineer, his was an Electrician, and so I'm a "sparky" by default. One would then enter that trade or business and work one's way up the ladder of responsibility to whatever level one could attain. Those days are now gone as we all know.
In the traditional business model, 'recording engineers' actually had Technical Degrees, the 'Producers' had sideburns that belied their Business School Sensibiliy, and RADIO had an exclusive purpose within that model that it no longer enjoys.
JOURNEY Inc. decided to park "The Gravy Train" as it's momentum achieved critical mass. This is HH's eternal frustration, I'm sure. And as that model morphed into the fractured Marketing / Commercial morass the "music" business is today, they lost any traction they had within the publics consciseness. (sic)
As I've said before, I enjoyed a career that was very rewarding with Nocturne Lighting FIRST. All this other stuff came as a result of my meeting Rindell back then (84), when he would come over to the lighting shop to hang with"the guys" while the band was up the street in their warehouse/ studio.
I did some of my very best technical work then for the JOSHUA TREE tour for U2. On a Commodore 128 , writing BASIC, no less. THAT was what brought me to HH's attention.
Guys like that notice when you make it easy for them to deliver what they promised someone else. < Alien's Rules of The World # 37... from the continuing series.
That I was able to parlay that introduction right up the food chain, to ultimately gain access to the principals in a manner most intimate is something that will in all likelyhood never be repeated.

Hey, one question...Did Perry insist on layered background vox with just him, was that just assumed or did the guys want "real" background vox. To my ears, like ROR, it's just layers of Perry and no one else.

Ahh, talk about pre-loading a question ... Reporter: "Senator, Are you still beating your wife? "
There is no good answer the way that's phrased.
Answer "No" and they want to know when it stopped. Answer "Yes" and well, that's just comedy gold there.

The truth of it is , and since this is a CAVEMAN thread and not an Alien thread, Kevin will always fondly remember, all the times they ( he and SP) ran the tape so he (SP) could tweak a level .03469 db. I've said he's(SP) a Master at what he does and that is arrange and mix the vocals. Problem with being a Master is that's just the beginning of Masterbate, and what'll that get ya? As with anything that involves feelings, the first couple of times are the best. When it's been scrubbed flat, no one wants it. I think I only appreciated what Kevin went through with SP, when I did the ELECTRIC WORLD record and Neal had as many guitar parts as I had tracks for the rest of the group, and ended up adding additional decks so we could have "more". yay more. see my previous gripes about Lower Fidelty Record.
The one issue i have with any ROR comparisons of this aspect (vocal blend) is that one must take into consideration the loss of two voices that have always been present in the vocal "stack" during ROR, that TBF and the other commonly compared works have. I'm talking about Ross and Smitty. It's easy to dismiss them at first glance, as most people have no idea as to how much signal is actually present within that blend. For ROR, SP was in control, and that shows. With TBF, the band was (this is important) LETTING Caveman have his reign. This obviously went against SP's instincts and I know JC's production and engineering side wanted to come out more than it did. ME? I was finally smart enough to know that I wasn't needed for anuy of those jobs, but I could help elsewhere. And the good thing for them was the few times I did pipe up about "something", Iknew enough about the process to be helpful instead of simply kibbutzing.

The Background vocals always were others with SP sometimes, and other times without, simply so Kevin could have the flavor to add. Atleast I remeber it that way. Since I spent very little time actually in the controll during pass after godawful pass, for all I know SP slipped him something, tied him up and did it all with POD People. Of course, that would mean all of the guys at the Studio were aliens.




They do live awfully far off the road.
No neighbors to speak of. No one ever used the pool....

HEYyyy WAIT A MINUTE !!!










< Alien's Rules of The World #38 ....Never let those guys know EVERYTHING about what you did for #37. That would violate Rule #2 ... Always Cover Your ASS !!!

[AlienC]

One of the few things I dislike about Journey (TBF/ROR) and JSS as well is a lack of "real" background vocals. It kinda bugs me to hear a million Perrys or a million JSSes in every chorus.

The other guys are on there singing, SP's voice is just in front of them all. This is NOT how RTB designed the concept initially.
The relative levels are supposed to remain more or less constant, with whoever's "note" is being sung, is closer to the mic.
I don't know that SP didn't go back and sing each BG part alone so he could re-stack the part and push his level.
That would produce the result you describe.

[slucero]

Allen... methinks Andrew doing an "in depth" interview with you would be a fairly interesting read....


Thanks for the tidbits!

[Vladan]

It is ludicrous to think Journey would receive a Grammy. Hire a new singer play a few shows, and expect to get a Grammy? for what. And rush a studio album as well, that's cooperate rock at it's finest, pay tribute to the classic sound with another sound alike to Steve Perry. Nobody in there right mind will give them a Grammy.

A. Too much controversy surrounds this band

B. Steve Perry isn't touring with them

C. Their best work is decades past them.

[Saint John]

It is ludicrous to think Journey would receive a Grammy. Hire a new singer play a few shows, and expect to get a Grammy? for what. And rush a studio album as well, that's cooperate rock at it's finest, pay tribute to the classic sound with another sound alike to Steve Perry. Nobody in there right mind will give them a Grammy.

A. Too much controversy surrounds this band

B. Steve Perry isn't touring with them

C. Their best work is decades past them.

A. Literally no one knows about Tapegate in the "real" world.

B. Thanks for that clarification. That was about as meaningful as making the little ping pong ball in bucket number one on The Grand Prize Game on The Bozo Show.

C. So is Bon Jovi's, Springsteen's and a host of other acts/artists. What's your point? They're giving us the new music that a lot of us still want.

[Maui Tom]

Happy Eater SJ.....

[RisingForce73]

I definitely hear Neal on the live version. I'm in the minority here, but I actually like Neal's voice for background. He's got a more than serviceable voice. Dude can sing a bit...Friga not so much.

No way he can sing after all the cigarettes he's digested, but nice of you to pay him some sort of compliment.

I don't care if he's butt-fucking The Marlboro Man, to me he still sounds good on background vocals.

I don't know if I'm too big on the butt sex thing, but Neal can sing, or at least he could in 1980.

For those non-believers, watch this live video of "People and Places" with Neal singing lead vox:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZNhGY3qqx0

[Saint John]

Happy Eater SJ.....

LOL...you caught that, huh? Same to you, bud.

[Vladan]

It is ludicrous to think Journey would receive a Grammy. Hire a new singer play a few shows, and expect to get a Grammy? for what. And rush a studio album as well, that's cooperate rock at it's finest, pay tribute to the classic sound with another sound alike to Steve Perry. Nobody in there right mind will give them a Grammy.

A. Too much controversy surrounds this band

B. Steve Perry isn't touring with them

C. Their best work is decades past them.

A. Literally no one knows about Tapegate in the "real" world.

B. Thanks for that clarification. That was about as meaningful as making the little ping pong ball in bucket number one on The Grand Prize Game on The Bozo Show.

C. So is Bon Jovi's, Springsteen's and a host of other acts/artists. What's your point? They're giving us the new music that a lot of us still want.

I have no point, just stating the obvious. I personally don't think anyone cares about their new music in the states, some care but the majority that did, won't. And Arrival, Generations proved that and SA was an excellent singer. And I also strongly believe countries like Europe and Asia, South America are the majority of Journey fans, and will bother with their new material.

[youkeepmewaiting]

It is ludicrous to think Journey would receive a Grammy. Hire a new singer play a few shows, and expect to get a Grammy? for what. And rush a studio album as well, that's cooperate rock at it's finest, pay tribute to the classic sound with another sound alike to Steve Perry. Nobody in there right mind will give them a Grammy.

A. Too much controversy surrounds this band

B. Steve Perry isn't touring with them

C. Their best work is decades past them.

A. Literally no one knows about Tapegate in the "real" world.

B. Thanks for that clarification. That was about as meaningful as making the little ping pong ball in bucket number one on The Grand Prize Game on The Bozo Show.

C. So is Bon Jovi's, Springsteen's and a host of other acts/artists. What's your point? They're giving us the new music that a lot of us still want.

I have no point, just stating the obvious. I personally don't think anyone cares about their new music in the states, some care but the majority that did, won't. And Arrival, Generations proved that and SA was an excellent singer. And I also strongly believe countries like Europe and Asia, South America are the majority of Journey fans, and will bother with their new material.

Countries????

[Vladan]

It is ludicrous to think Journey would receive a Grammy. Hire a new singer play a few shows, and expect to get a Grammy? for what. And rush a studio album as well, that's cooperate rock at it's finest, pay tribute to the classic sound with another sound alike to Steve Perry. Nobody in there right mind will give them a Grammy.

A. Too much controversy surrounds this band

B. Steve Perry isn't touring with them

C. Their best work is decades past them.

A. Literally no one knows about Tapegate in the "real" world.

B. Thanks for that clarification. That was about as meaningful as making the little ping pong ball in bucket number one on The Grand Prize Game on The Bozo Show.

C. So is Bon Jovi's, Springsteen's and a host of other acts/artists. What's your point? They're giving us the new music that a lot of us still want.

I have no point, just stating the obvious. I personally don't think anyone cares about their new music in the states, some care but the majority that did, won't. And Arrival, Generations proved that and SA was an excellent singer. And I also strongly believe countries like Europe and Asia, South America are the majority of Journey fans, and will bother with their new material.

Countries????

It's interesting, Europe is still so loyal to that genre of music, they are probably Heavy Metals and Classic Rock's most biggest fans today unlike America, Australia and so on. Europe is awesome in that sense.

[youkeepmewaiting]

It is ludicrous to think Journey would receive a Grammy. Hire a new singer play a few shows, and expect to get a Grammy? for what. And rush a studio album as well, that's cooperate rock at it's finest, pay tribute to the classic sound with another sound alike to Steve Perry. Nobody in there right mind will give them a Grammy.

A. Too much controversy surrounds this band

B. Steve Perry isn't touring with them

C. Their best work is decades past them.

A. Literally no one knows about Tapegate in the "real" world.

B. Thanks for that clarification. That was about as meaningful as making the little ping pong ball in bucket number one on The Grand Prize Game on The Bozo Show.

C. So is Bon Jovi's, Springsteen's and a host of other acts/artists. What's your point? They're giving us the new music that a lot of us still want.

I have no point, just stating the obvious. I personally don't think anyone cares about their new music in the states, some care but the majority that did, won't. And Arrival, Generations proved that and SA was an excellent singer. And I also strongly believe countries like Europe and Asia, South America are the majority of Journey fans, and will bother with their new material.

Countries????

It's interesting, Europe is still so loyal to that genre of music, they are probably Heavy Metals and Classic Rock's most biggest fans today unlike America, Australia and so on. Europe is awesome in that sense.

No my point was directed towards you calling Europe, Asia and S America countries ....

[Saint John]

You missed the point, numb nuts. You listed continents not countries.

[Vladan]

You missed the point, numb nuts. You listed continents not countries.

Well I try not to personally insult people when I start losing an argument, it just shows weakness in character and that your losing your cool, and that's not the American way is it. You have to be cool always, give your enemy nothing but a cold glance, and a very serious tone and whatever you do, don't get frustrated or raise your voice, people often tune out at that stage.

[Saint John]

You missed the point, numb nuts. You listed continents not countries.

Well I try not to personally insult people when I start losing an argument, it just shows weakness in character and that your losing your cool, and that's not the American way is it. You have to be cool always, give your enemy nothing but a cold glance, and a very serious tone and whatever you do, don't get frustrated or t raise your voice, people often tune out at that stage.

The term "numb nuts" is no more an insult than calling someone a "dum dum." I apologize if you were offended. Now go practice your continents.

[Vladan]

You missed the point, numb nuts. You listed continents not countries.

Well I try not to personally insult people when I start losing an argument, it just shows weakness in character and that your losing your cool, and that's not the American way is it. You have to be cool always, give your enemy nothing but a cold glance, and a very serious tone and whatever you do, don't get frustrated or t raise your voice, people often tune out at that stage.

The term "numb nuts" is no more an insult than calling someone a "dum dum." I apologize if you were offended. Now go practice your continents.

Ahh damn I was being a bit precious wasn't I, anyways I have nothing against you John, I actually enjoy reading your posts!. I'll be back tonight, it's too early for message boards here in Australia.

[youkeepmewaiting]

You missed the point, numb nuts. You listed continents not countries.

Well I try not to personally insult people when I start losing an argument, it just shows weakness in character and that your losing your cool, and that's not the American way is it. You have to be cool always, give your enemy nothing but a cold glance, and a very serious tone and whatever you do, don't get frustrated or raise your voice, people often tune out at that stage.

That was nicely done, trying to destract us from you're glaring error earlier lol

[Vladan]

You missed the point, numb nuts. You listed continents not countries.

Well I try not to personally insult people when I start losing an argument, it just shows weakness in character and that your losing your cool, and that's not the American way is it. You have to be cool always, give your enemy nothing but a cold glance, and a very serious tone and whatever you do, don't get frustrated or raise your voice, people often tune out at that stage.

That was nicely done, trying to destract us from you're glaring error earlier lol

Yep, sure did it was my attempt of being smooth, kinda worked right

[Saint John]

You missed the point, numb nuts. You listed continents not countries.

Well I try not to personally insult people when I start losing an argument, it just shows weakness in character and that your losing your cool, and that's not the American way is it. You have to be cool always, give your enemy nothing but a cold glance, and a very serious tone and whatever you do, don't get frustrated or raise your voice, people often tune out at that stage.

That was nicely done, trying to destract us from you're glaring error earlier lol

The irony!!!

[youkeepmewaiting]

You missed the point, numb nuts. You listed continents not countries.

Well I try not to personally insult people when I start losing an argument, it just shows weakness in character and that your losing your cool, and that's not the American way is it. You have to be cool always, give your enemy nothing but a cold glance, and a very serious tone and whatever you do, don't get frustrated or raise your voice, people often tune out at that stage.

That was nicely done, trying to destract us from you're glaring error earlier lol

The irony!!!

Darn it!