'Revelation': now a gold CD .......

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Postby Saint John » Tue Jul 01, 2008 11:56 am

Since 78 wrote:
Calbear94 wrote:
STORY_TELLER wrote:
Saint John wrote:
StocktontoMalone wrote:What a way to 'back door' into gold status.....

Why are so concerned which "door" Journey enters to get into the Gold room? It's Gold...deal with it.


Because it's not genuinely gold. 500,000 units were not sold. That means 500,000 people do not own this CD package. That means it didn't truly earn it's gold status. That means it has yet to equal let alone surpass previous album sales.

By this math, why not put together a disk package containing 10 disks with one song per disk next time? That way they can reach platinum status even though only 100,000 people will have paid for it. It's not honest math.


I see it as more of a pricing issue. Double CD sets used to be almost twice as expensive as single CDs. What if instead of including the three discs, Revelation was only the one CD of "new material," but sold at a $6 price point? Would it have been selling the same?


At $6.00 I think people would assume that its crap. So, no I don't think so.


I disagree. This logic tells me that they'd think the same about 3 discs for $11.88...that's roughly $4 per disc. I think they'd buy it in droves for $6.
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Postby Sarah » Tue Jul 01, 2008 12:06 pm

I guess I'm the only person who apparently understands what Story_Teller is arguing here. Oh well.

Also, I definitely agree that if Arrival had been put in the same situation (absurdly low price and comes with a DVD) it would have hit gold very quickly too. I really doubt it's the "quality of the music" that makes a difference here.
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Re: 'Revelation': now a gold CD .......

Postby BobbyinTN » Tue Jul 01, 2008 12:10 pm

separate_wayz wrote:'Revelation' has now sold 256,072 albums .... x 2 = 512,144 .....


It's now officially a gold CD ...... 8)


That's awesome. I've had it playing all day while I was working outside.
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Postby fightingilliniJRNY » Tue Jul 01, 2008 12:11 pm

Sarah wrote:I guess I'm the only person who apparently understands what Story_Teller is arguing here. Oh well.


No, we all understand what he is saying. But the fact remains is that since it's a double-disc set, selling 250,000 copies earns you gold status. It is what it is. That's the rule. You and Story_Teller pointing out again that it's not gold in your book or whatever doesn't matter. We all know what he's saying.
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Postby Calbear94 » Tue Jul 01, 2008 12:21 pm

Sarah wrote:I guess I'm the only person who apparently understands what Story_Teller is arguing here. Oh well.

Also, I definitely agree that if Arrival had been put in the same situation (absurdly low price and comes with a DVD) it would have hit gold very quickly too. I really doubt it's the "quality of the music" that makes a difference here.


It's hard to say. Word of mouth is important. There were alot of used copies of Arrival available, and some fans reported seeing it in bargain bins not too long after it was finally released in the U.S. I don't know how much of that was due to someone telling someone else not to buy it. For sure, Revelation is being re-sold, but its hard to say how much of that would be due to the distribution be limited to Walmart in the U.S. I think it will be more clear by the end of the year.
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Postby Since 78 » Tue Jul 01, 2008 12:24 pm

Saint John wrote:
Since 78 wrote:
Calbear94 wrote:
STORY_TELLER wrote:
Saint John wrote:
StocktontoMalone wrote:What a way to 'back door' into gold status.....

Why are so concerned which "door" Journey enters to get into the Gold room? It's Gold...deal with it.


Because it's not genuinely gold. 500,000 units were not sold. That means 500,000 people do not own this CD package. That means it didn't truly earn it's gold status. That means it has yet to equal let alone surpass previous album sales.

By this math, why not put together a disk package containing 10 disks with one song per disk next time? That way they can reach platinum status even though only 100,000 people will have paid for it. It's not honest math.


I see it as more of a pricing issue. Double CD sets used to be almost twice as expensive as single CDs. What if instead of including the three discs, Revelation was only the one CD of "new material," but sold at a $6 price point? Would it have been selling the same?


At $6.00 I think people would assume that its crap. So, no I don't think so.


I disagree. This logic tells me that they'd think the same about 3 discs for $11.88...that's roughly $4 per disc. I think they'd buy it in droves for $6.


I see your point . However, were talking about Wal-Mart here. People aren't surprised to see a package for $11.88. If this package was for sale at Best Buy, Virgin Etc.. the price would be much higher, lets say $17.99 that would be $5.99 for the disc by your logic and If saw a new release for that price I would assume its not very good. Not arguing that Revelation isn't great, I would have paid the $17.99 for one disc.
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Postby Sarah » Tue Jul 01, 2008 12:30 pm

fightingilliniJRNY wrote:You and Story_Teller pointing out again that it's not gold in your book or whatever doesn't matter.

Well, nothing anyone argues here 'matters'. I don't think he's trying to change RIAA rules, just saying they're stupid. He's allowed to say so, right?
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Postby Rick » Tue Jul 01, 2008 12:30 pm

separate_wayz wrote:
StocktontoMalone wrote:
Dude, what 'Revelation' needs is more cowbell.... :wink:


I think we can all agree that 'Revelation' would be 87-times Platinum if it had more cowbell. Damn shortage of cowbell on that Billboard chart. :D

(Oh, and it's "Mr. Dude" to you, too.) :D


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Postby Rick » Tue Jul 01, 2008 12:34 pm

Since 78 wrote:I would have paid the $17.99 for one disc.


Me too.

The brainstormers at WalMart are going to read this and go "Sonofabitch!" :lol:
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Postby Saint John » Tue Jul 01, 2008 12:35 pm

Rick wrote:
Since 78 wrote:I would have paid the $17.99 for one disc.


Me too.

The brainstormers at WalMart are going to read this and go "Sonofabitch!" :lol:


Neal's sitting at home, calculator in hand, with tears running down his cheeks. :lol:
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Postby fightingilliniJRNY » Tue Jul 01, 2008 12:35 pm

Sarah wrote:
fightingilliniJRNY wrote:You and Story_Teller pointing out again that it's not gold in your book or whatever doesn't matter.

Well, nothing anyone argues here 'matters'. I don't think he's trying to change RIAA rules, just saying they're stupid. He's allowed to say so, right?


Of course he's allowed to. And I'm allowed to say that him complaining about RIAA rules and questioning the validity of Revelation's gold status is stupid. We all know what he's saying - you're not the only one who "gets" him.
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Postby Rick » Tue Jul 01, 2008 12:37 pm

fightingilliniJRNY wrote:
Sarah wrote:
fightingilliniJRNY wrote:You and Story_Teller pointing out again that it's not gold in your book or whatever doesn't matter.

Well, nothing anyone argues here 'matters'. I don't think he's trying to change RIAA rules, just saying they're stupid. He's allowed to say so, right?


Of course he's allowed to. And I'm allowed to say that him complaining about RIAA rules and questioning the validity of Revelation's gold status is stupid. We all know what he's saying - you're not the only one who "gets" him.


I don't get it. :twisted:
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Postby Since 78 » Tue Jul 01, 2008 12:37 pm

Rick wrote:
Since 78 wrote:I would have paid the $17.99 for one disc.


Me too.

The brainstormers at WalMart are going to read this and go "Sonofabitch!" :lol:


Me and my big mouth :lol: :lol:
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Postby fightingilliniJRNY » Tue Jul 01, 2008 12:39 pm

Rick wrote:
fightingilliniJRNY wrote:
Sarah wrote:
fightingilliniJRNY wrote:You and Story_Teller pointing out again that it's not gold in your book or whatever doesn't matter.

Well, nothing anyone argues here 'matters'. I don't think he's trying to change RIAA rules, just saying they're stupid. He's allowed to say so, right?


Of course he's allowed to. And I'm allowed to say that him complaining about RIAA rules and questioning the validity of Revelation's gold status is stupid. We all know what he's saying - you're not the only one who "gets" him.


I don't get it. :twisted:


:lol:
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Re: 'Revelation': now a gold CD .......

Postby Voyager » Tue Jul 01, 2008 1:59 pm

separate_wayz wrote:'Revelation' has now sold 256,072 albums .... x 2 = 512,144 .....


It's now officially a gold CD ...... 8)


I'm all for Journey selling a lot of albums, but do we have to stretch the truth to satisfy our desire for them to be successful? I mean, c'mon - this is like saying if you sell 250,000 Intel processors, it's really 500,000 sold just because they are dual core processors.

Just let things happen when they happen. Last time I checked, a double live album still has to sell 500,000 units for it to be deemed gold.

:roll:
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Postby Calbear94 » Tue Jul 01, 2008 2:03 pm

Let's just put an "*" next to in the record books.
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Postby Monker » Tue Jul 01, 2008 2:06 pm

Eric wrote:
STORY_TELLER wrote:When TBF reached platinum it was because a million people purchased the single disk album.


TBF SHIPPED platinum so we could argue that if only 250,000 shipped it wouldn't be Platinum yet!


And, Arrival SHIPPED at less then gold...causing it to sell out quickly at reatail and not be available for purchase...a fact that even Kevin Shirley alluded to when he said Sony had their expectations and would not accept anything else.

So, by your own rule above, and common sense, Arrival was never given it's fair chance by Sony, as TBF was.

As for the multi-package deal and gold status. It's gold, so what. But, the rule should be changed because of how these packages are now being put together. That rule was designed for multi albums, such as Captured, to be given a fair shot. Revelation is not a true 'double album'. It's Revelation, Recollection, and a DVD...three seperate things...and they should not be counted as one. It's 'following the rules'. It is not, however, in the spirit of why that rule was created.
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Postby Carlitto H@kk » Tue Jul 01, 2008 2:11 pm

Good God Almighty,
why does anyone really give a shit if
it goes Gold, Platnum or straight up tanks???

Last I checked, no one one this board is getting
royalty checks. And hell, you got your copy, I got
my copy, we're listening to it, we're happy/not-so-happy...

Who the fuck really cares what status it reaches??? :roll:
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Postby Since 78 » Tue Jul 01, 2008 2:21 pm

Carlitto H@kk wrote:Good God Almighty,
why does anyone really give a shit if
it goes Gold, Platnum or straight up tanks???

Last I checked, no one one this board is getting
royalty checks. And hell, you got your copy, I got
my copy, we're listening to it, we're happy/not-so-happy...

Who the fuck really cares what status it reaches??? :roll:


I think its because some of us are happy to see Journey having some success ( After all these years ) Pun Intended! :wink: And the fact that so many said
that this new album would maybe break the top 100 and then disappear
its just human nature.
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Postby Carlitto H@kk » Tue Jul 01, 2008 2:31 pm

Since 78 wrote:I think its because some of us are happy to see Journey having some success ( After all these years ) Pun Intended! :wink: And the fact that so many said
that this new album would maybe break the top 100 and then disappear
its just human nature.


Sure, talking about it charting and possibly staying there for awhile is one thing.
Yea, it's nice to see them having some mainstream success again.

But going back & forth, waxing estatic about gold status and whether it's legit
and if it's cheating and blah blah blah...

Just fucking enjoy the music...
or choose not to.
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Postby Since 78 » Tue Jul 01, 2008 2:36 pm

Carlitto H@kk wrote:
Since 78 wrote:I think its because some of us are happy to see Journey having some success ( After all these years ) Pun Intended! :wink: And the fact that so many said
that this new album would maybe break the top 100 and then disappear
its just human nature.


Sure, talking about it charting and possibly staying there for awhile is one thing.
Yea, it's nice to see them having some mainstream success again.

But going back & forth, waxing estatic about gold status and whether it's legit
and if it's cheating and blah blah blah...

Just fucking enjoy the music...
or choose not to.


That I agree with!!
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Postby Voyager » Tue Jul 01, 2008 2:36 pm

How many would have sold by now if Steve Perry would have been singing on it? More? Less?

:?:
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Postby STORY_TELLER » Tue Jul 01, 2008 2:40 pm

ScarabGator wrote:
Saint John wrote:
STORY_TELLER wrote:And at that point, I'll be jumping up and down and hailing them reaching an honest gold status. When Journey reached gold with individual albums it was because 500,000 people bought it. That's an honest quantifiable measurement of the size of the fan base and sales income earned.

I don't care who set the rule, this double disk math is not honest - for ANY band. And you know it-


Your logic sucks a big, black cock. What about when people bought vinyl, then 8 track, then cassette and finally CD??? Should there be some fucking sytem to back and try and figure out how many people had multiple purchases? Or are you telling me that of the 14 million copies of Journey's GH that no one bought it 2, 3, 4 and 5 times. Call the RIAA right fucking now and inform them that GH is NOT 14X Platinum and that YOU know how many times Platinum it really is...or just shut the fuck and accept the fact that Revelation is Gold already.



:shock: :shock: :shock: Try to answer this!!!!


Are you two serious? Are you really going to split that fine a hair in an effort to support your agenda? SJ you're a bigger joke than the RIAA's math and you've got as much depth as a puddle in vegas after a 10 second drizzle during its hottest summer. (take time to think about that, you know you need to).

Gator the fact that you even said what you said tells me you're not working with very much upstairs so, run along and have another beer.

Now that the childish insult game is over, SJ, or should I say, Rockin Deano wannabe, here's my answer to your ridiculous retort (pay attention gator, this is what thinking people do):

The format of a recording has no individual affect on the total sales figures tallied. They are all counted as a single unit regardless of format, be they one cassette, one 8-track, one vinyl album, or 1 CD. They are all tallied accumulatively from the day they go on sale until they are no longer made available for purchase. That is why the GH's album, be it sold on cassette or CD, has tallied as high as it has to date.

As to your "multiple purchase" scenario: A normal person would apply the laws of averages here, but lets face it, you're not normal. If by example lets say GH's sold 14 million copies, does that mean exactly and precisely 14 million people own it? Of course not. But average it out and the vast majority of those figures are reasonably equating one unit sold per person.

You really think TBF reached platinum because most of the fans purchased more than one copy? Seriously? Why would you bring up such a ridiculous point? Did a scattered few die hards here and there buy more than one? Sure I believe that. Do they measure in the hundreds of thousands? C'mon, you're not this dumb, right? And as such it's a ridiculous hair splitting point to bring up and tout as a valid counter argument to the point I was making, which is:

Every copy of Revelation has two CD's so each unit sold, by RIAA math, counts as two units, not one.

EVERY. SINGLE. COPY.

That means should Revelation go platinum, to those who don't know better (i.e. you, scarabgator, etc.), they will think and likely tout it sold as many units as any other single platinum album from any other band.

This is about giving accurate credit for an honest achievement. Not touting some loophole in a rule that hasn't been updated and closed to reflect what's in the package (as Monker pointed out). The measurement for comparison is inaccurate and false on its face. It's not genuine. When Neal and co. place the placard trophy for a platinum sales figure on Revelation up on the wall next to their other platinum trophies, deep down they'll know they didn't truly match the distribution they achieved on those other single albums.

So give it a rest SJ. Do what you do best. Go drown the jaded, issue laden, lump of tissue between your ears in cheap beer, continue to pretend you're Rockin Deano, and leave the reasonable thinking to the normal folk.
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Postby Lora » Tue Jul 01, 2008 2:40 pm

Monker wrote:the rule should be changed because of how these packages are now being put together. That rule was designed for multi albums, such as Captured, to be given a fair shot. Revelation is not a true 'double album'. It's Revelation, Recollection, and a DVD...three seperate things...and they should not be counted as one. It's 'following the rules'. It is not, however, in the spirit of why that rule was created.


I agree.

with Monker.

on something.

OMG.

:shock:
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Postby Rick » Tue Jul 01, 2008 2:59 pm

Lora wrote:
Monker wrote:the rule should be changed because of how these packages are now being put together. That rule was designed for multi albums, such as Captured, to be given a fair shot. Revelation is not a true 'double album'. It's Revelation, Recollection, and a DVD...three seperate things...and they should not be counted as one. It's 'following the rules'. It is not, however, in the spirit of why that rule was created.


I agree.

with Monker.

on something.

OMG.

:shock:


:lol: :lol: :lol:

It's startling when that happens.
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Postby journeypower » Tue Jul 01, 2008 3:04 pm

Saint John wrote:The Excuse Counter:

Week 1-"It's all them fucking Filipinos buying 20 copies each."
Week 2-"It's the fucking re-records that are driving sales."
Week 3-"If they didn't have the deal with Wal Mart it wouldn't be selling nearly as much."
Week 4-"It's not genuinely Gold."
Week 5-Insert your prediction here. :lol: :roll:


SP promoted Revelations ! :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Postby Just Sara » Tue Jul 01, 2008 3:07 pm

Saint John wrote:
Rick wrote:
Since 78 wrote:I would have paid the $17.99 for one disc.


Me too.

The brainstormers at WalMart are going to read this and go "Sonofabitch!" :lol:


Neal's sitting at home, calculator in hand, with tears running down his cheeks. :lol:



:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Postby journeypower » Tue Jul 01, 2008 3:19 pm

with the cheap cost of recording nowadays (thanx to digital technology), not to mention how cheap a blank disc is (CD and DVD), especially if bought by volumes, the $12 deal is almost all net profit. as to sales figures, I really do feel that Revelations needs some extra boost coming from ad/promotions inorder to hit platinum. the current sales chart already is already a very nice result, but it could had been great as early as it was released if it was given more exposure. the same can be said of their scheduled concert tours.

anyway, is there a plan on recording a MV (music video) ?
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Postby Red13JoePa » Tue Jul 01, 2008 8:52 pm

Double albums have counted as 2 buys forever.
Why NOW, dod we have to change the rules just to keep Journey from benefitting from the certification system?

Should we lop almost half of Catpured's sales?
How about Pink Floyd's The Wall?
Nah, just make Journey do it for Revelation. :lol:

As Sara said above, the likelikhood that Revelation was going to move ANYway, given to positive advance word, was high.
Where the BAND was smart was in pricing the large package attractively enough, at the expense of their own wallets.

Seems as though somebody ELSE has a modicum of business sense now too.
And people don't LIKE it. :D :lol:
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Postby amaron » Tue Jul 01, 2008 8:55 pm

Red13JoePa wrote:Double albums have counted as 2 buys forever.
Why NOW, dod we have to change the rules just to keep Journey from benefitting from the certification system?

Should we lop almost half of Catpured's sales?
How about Pink Floyd's The Wall?
Nah, just make Journey do it for Revelation. :lol:

As Sara said above, the likelikhood that Revelation was going to move ANYway, given to positive advance word, was high.
Where the BAND was smart was in pricing the large package attractively enough, at the expense of their own wallets.

Seems as though somebody ELSE has a modicum of business sense now too.
And people don't LIKE it. :D :lol:


If there was a certain hermit fronting the band, there wouldn't be an issue with the Double CD count on album sales.

I'm certain on that.
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