STOP WHINING & MAKING EXCUSES! PLEASE!

[Rick]

Lets get real. You can't compare Steve Perry to Steve Perry anymore. When comparing the two, you're comparing not only two different styles and era, but two different area's..and by area I mean age. 40 Year Old Arnel Pineda... VS 20-some year old Steve Perry. Come on. All I know is..is that Arnel is worthy to share the same microphone as Steve Perry if they were both on stage. He might not be in the same league as a 20 year old Perry, but he sure as hell could carry his jock if Steve needed it. Here's my take. You can't compare someone to a legendary performer/singer. But IMO you can compare today vs today. Judging by Perry's age alone lets say he re-records the GH. You want to talk about bad? Arnel is far more qualified today than Steve would be, and I give him kudos for even agreeing to such a thing (I'm sure he didn't have a choice, eh? ) I'll bet my house that if Steve Perry comes out to sing NWA, he wouldn't be able to hit half of those notes if his life depended on it. They cross each other out. 80's Steve Perry vs 08's Pineda-Winner: Perry. '08 Perry Vs '08 Pineda -Winner: Pineda.

Back to your recently scheduled program.

This is hilarious... NOT!

Soooooo... you can't compare the 40 year-old Arnel to the 20-something Steve Perry, but it's ok to compare a 40 year old Arnel to a late 50's Steve Perry???? Someone PLEASE tell me the rationale in that???

Steve Perry was 29 when he first joined Journey in the late 70's. That would make him about 35 when Journey released Frontiers. Considering the tour schedules that Journey followed back in the day, there is NO way in hell that Arnel could hold a candle (OR a jock-strap) to Steve Perry in his prime. Good try, but no bananas.

Agreed.

Everyone should stop comparing the two anyway. I'd bet my last nickel that Arnel doesn't compare himself like that. There's no point.

Nobody will ever be able to fill SP's shoes in my opinion. Arnel is doing a great job fronting Journey, on a grueling catalog for any singer.

[Voyager]

Sorry, but I’m really getting fed up!

You haven't been here long enough to be fed up. Try reposting this in a few years and maybe someone will care.

[YoungJRNY]

Lets get real. You can't compare Steve Perry to Steve Perry anymore. When comparing the two, you're comparing not only two different styles and era, but two different area's..and by area I mean age. 40 Year Old Arnel Pineda... VS 20-some year old Steve Perry. Come on. All I know is..is that Arnel is worthy to share the same microphone as Steve Perry if they were both on stage. He might not be in the same league as a 20 year old Perry, but he sure as hell could carry his jock if Steve needed it. Here's my take. You can't compare someone to a legendary performer/singer. But IMO you can compare today vs today. Judging by Perry's age alone lets say he re-records the GH. You want to talk about bad? Arnel is far more qualified today than Steve would be, and I give him kudos for even agreeing to such a thing (I'm sure he didn't have a choice, eh? ) I'll bet my house that if Steve Perry comes out to sing NWA, he wouldn't be able to hit half of those notes if his life depended on it. They cross each other out. 80's Steve Perry vs 08's Pineda-Winner: Perry. '08 Perry Vs '08 Pineda -Winner: Pineda.

Back to your recently scheduled program.

This is hilarious... NOT!

Soooooo... you can't compare the 40 year-old Arnel to the 20-something Steve Perry, but it's ok to compare a 40 year old Arnel to a late 50's Steve Perry???? Someone PLEASE tell me the rationale in that???

Steve Perry was 29 when he first joined Journey in the late 70's. That would make him about 35 when Journey released Frontiers. Considering the tour schedules that Journey followed back in the day, there is NO way in hell that Arnel could hold a candle (OR a jock-strap) to Steve Perry in his prime. Good try, but no bananas.

Yes, that is ok...that is present VS present.. that would be the fair assumption. Even though Perry is almost a couple decades older than Pineda, doesn't escape the fact that you actually could compare the two since they'd both be singing in today's day in age. That leaves people no choice with the comparable fact..since everyone loves to compare and would if such a thing would happen. You can't go back in time 30 years ago and put a 40 year old Pineda up against a 29 year old Perry while at the same time someone is in their prime (Perry.) Pineda's case, he never had a prime.. a right place wrong time sort of thing going on for him right now.

Another thing, you say Perry was around 35 when hit his full stride prime. That gave him 6 years worth of a young voice to work with and 6 years to train the pipes and make them stronger singing on a night to night basis.. since the voice works JUST like a muscle. A young voice allows you to sing a brutal tour schedule and it was only making him stronger at that point. Of course it catches up with you in a later age, which it did.

Pineda never had that experience to "warm up the vocal compatibly" TODAY and is 3 months in singing at the age of 40 a catalog that destroys and sings it just as good as Perry did in his 30's. He doesn't speak english and even that probably isn't his first or possibly even 2nd or 3rd language! He isn't better than a Prime Perry, obviously..never will be. We get that. But IMO I think Mr. Pineda is a LITTLE better than some think and deserves a better pull than any other if you want to compare.

Come to think of it, this is stupid. God damn you, Journey. Always making people argue. GODDAMNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN YOOOOU

[Rick]

Lets get real. You can't compare Steve Perry to Steve Perry anymore. When comparing the two, you're comparing not only two different styles and era, but two different area's..and by area I mean age. 40 Year Old Arnel Pineda... VS 20-some year old Steve Perry. Come on. All I know is..is that Arnel is worthy to share the same microphone as Steve Perry if they were both on stage. He might not be in the same league as a 20 year old Perry, but he sure as hell could carry his jock if Steve needed it. Here's my take. You can't compare someone to a legendary performer/singer. But IMO you can compare today vs today. Judging by Perry's age alone lets say he re-records the GH. You want to talk about bad? Arnel is far more qualified today than Steve would be, and I give him kudos for even agreeing to such a thing (I'm sure he didn't have a choice, eh? ) I'll bet my house that if Steve Perry comes out to sing NWA, he wouldn't be able to hit half of those notes if his life depended on it. They cross each other out. 80's Steve Perry vs 08's Pineda-Winner: Perry. '08 Perry Vs '08 Pineda -Winner: Pineda.

Back to your recently scheduled program.

This is hilarious... NOT!

Soooooo... you can't compare the 40 year-old Arnel to the 20-something Steve Perry, but it's ok to compare a 40 year old Arnel to a late 50's Steve Perry???? [b] Someone PLEASE tell me the rationale in that???

Steve Perry was 29 when he first joined Journey in the late 70's. That would make him about 35 when Journey released Frontiers. Considering the tour schedules that Journey followed back in the day, there is NO way in hell that Arnel could hold a candle (OR a jock-strap) to Steve Perry in his prime. Good try, but no bananas.

Yes, that is ok...that is present VS present.. that would be the fair assumption. Even though Perry is almost a couple decades older than Pineda, doesn't escape the fact that you actually could compare the two since they'd both be singing in today's day in age. That leaves people no choice with the comparable fact..since everyone loves to compare and would if such a thing would happen. You can't go back in time 30 years ago and put a 40 year old Pineda up against a 29 year old Perry while at the same time someone is in their prime (Perry.) Pineda's case, he never had a prime.. a right place wrong time sort of thing going on for him right now.

Another thing, you say Perry was around 35 when hit his full stride prime. That gave him 6 years worth of a young voice to work with and 6 years to train the pipes and make them stronger singing on a night to night basis.. since the voice works JUST like a muscle. A young voice allows you to sing a brutal tour schedule and it was only making him stronger at that point. Of course it catches up with you in a later age, which it did.

Pineda never had that experience to "warm up the vocal compatibly" TODAY and is 3 months in singing at the age of 40 a catalog that destroys and sings it just as good as Perry did in his 30's. He doesn't speak english and even that probably isn't his first or possibly even 2nd or 3rd language! He isn't better than a Prime Perry, obviously..never will be. We get that. But IMO I think Mr. Pineda is a LITTLE better than some think and deserves a better pull than any other if you want to compare.

Come to think of it, this is stupid. God damn you, Journey. Always making people argue. GODDAMNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN YOOOOU

Ain't it the truth?

[strangegrey]

If you don't like someone's opinions, give a counter. There's no need to call out/gripe about it.

WTF's the difference? I didn't like the opinion and I countered...if you interpreted that as a gripe, well then what's to say that an opinion is no less or more valid than a gripe?!

I'm arguing a matter of fact....revelations is not yet platinum and some here are talking bout quadruple platinum?!?!?!?!?!? WTF?!?!?! Let's get back to reality and start dealing with facts before we talk about pipe dreams....

[Rick]

If you don't like someone's opinions, give a counter. There's no need to call out/gripe about it.

WTF's the difference? I didn't like the opinion and I countered...if you interpreted that as a gripe, well then what's to say that an opinion is no less or more valid than a gripe?!

I'm arguing a matter of fact....revelations is not yet platinum and some here are talking bout quadruple platinum?!?!?!?!?!? WTF?!?!?! Let's get back to reality and start dealing with facts before we talk about pipe dreams....

Quadruple Platinum is never happening with this record or this band. Platinum will be a stretch, but is doable. Anyone thinking beyond those lines are over-optimistic. I admire the optimism, but a reality check needs to be realized. The climate of the music industry now days with a band like Journey will dictate a disappointment to those with such lofty ambitions.

[donnaplease]

Lets get real. You can't compare Steve Perry to Steve Perry anymore. When comparing the two, you're comparing not only two different styles and era, but two different area's..and by area I mean age. 40 Year Old Arnel Pineda... VS 20-some year old Steve Perry. Come on. All I know is..is that Arnel is worthy to share the same microphone as Steve Perry if they were both on stage. He might not be in the same league as a 20 year old Perry, but he sure as hell could carry his jock if Steve needed it. Here's my take. You can't compare someone to a legendary performer/singer. But IMO you can compare today vs today. Judging by Perry's age alone lets say he re-records the GH. You want to talk about bad? Arnel is far more qualified today than Steve would be, and I give him kudos for even agreeing to such a thing (I'm sure he didn't have a choice, eh? ) I'll bet my house that if Steve Perry comes out to sing NWA, he wouldn't be able to hit half of those notes if his life depended on it. They cross each other out. 80's Steve Perry vs 08's Pineda-Winner: Perry. '08 Perry Vs '08 Pineda -Winner: Pineda.

Back to your recently scheduled program.

This is hilarious... NOT!

Soooooo... you can't compare the 40 year-old Arnel to the 20-something Steve Perry, but it's ok to compare a 40 year old Arnel to a late 50's Steve Perry???? Someone PLEASE tell me the rationale in that???

Steve Perry was 29 when he first joined Journey in the late 70's. That would make him about 35 when Journey released Frontiers. Considering the tour schedules that Journey followed back in the day, there is NO way in hell that Arnel could hold a candle (OR a jock-strap) to Steve Perry in his prime. Good try, but no bananas.

Yes, that is ok...that is present VS present.. that would be the fair assumption. Even though Perry is almost a couple decades older than Pineda, doesn't escape the fact that you actually could compare the two since they'd both be singing in today's day in age. That leaves people no choice with the comparable fact..since everyone loves to compare and would if such a thing would happen. You can't go back in time 30 years ago and put a 40 year old Pineda up against a 29 year old Perry while at the same time someone is in their prime (Perry.) Pineda's case, he never had a prime.. a right place wrong time sort of thing going on for him right now.

Another thing, you say Perry was around 35 when hit his full stride prime. That gave him 6 years worth of a young voice to work with and 6 years to train the pipes and make them stronger singing on a night to night basis.. since the voice works JUST like a muscle. A young voice allows you to sing a brutal tour schedule and it was only making him stronger at that point. Of course it catches up with you in a later age, which it did.

Pineda never had that experience to "warm up the vocal compatibly" TODAY and is 3 months in singing at the age of 40 a catalog that destroys and sings it just as good as Perry did in his 30's. He doesn't speak english and even that probably isn't his first or possibly even 2nd or 3rd language! He isn't better than a Prime Perry, obviously..never will be. We get that. But IMO I think Mr. Pineda is a LITTLE better than some think and deserves a better pull than any other if you want to compare.

What you aren't taking into consideration is that 99.99999% of the Journey-loving population (the pre-Arnel variety) would rather have Steve Perry singing with Journey than ANYONE else, now or ever. It's not a slam against Arnel, it just is what it is. It's funny that folks argue Arnel's inexperience when it's convenient, yet never fail to mention his many years singing in Asia when it serves them. Another thing, that 'night to night basis' you mention... would you not agree that it must've been horribly damaging to SP's voice? Any muscle overused becomes damaged from the strain.

This is a good debate. I doubt there will ever be a clear winner declared, however, unless Steve Perry comes out and proves one side wrong, once and for all. I read somewhere on here that someone questioned why the re-records were an issue to the Perry fans. Discussions like this are the reason. When folks come here and argue that Arnel is better than Steve Perry on the classic Journey songs, we 'loons' have a problem with it. If you want to argue that today Arnel has a stronger voice than SP, I'd probably give you that (see above). I personally don't like his delivery of some of the DD, and we really can't compare how SP would sing NWA, because we have no way to gauge it one way or the other. However, you will never... and the Rock means EVER... convince me that Arnel Pineda is a better and/or more valuable asset to the band known as Journey.

[separate_wayz]

If you don't like someone's opinions, give a counter. There's no need to call out/gripe about it.

WTF's the difference? I didn't like the opinion and I countered...if you interpreted that as a gripe, well then what's to say that an opinion is no less or more valid than a gripe?!

I'm arguing a matter of fact....revelations is not yet platinum and some here are talking bout quadruple platinum?!?!?!?!?!? WTF?!?!?! Let's get back to reality and start dealing with facts before we talk about pipe dreams....

Quadruple Platinum is never happening with this record or this band. Platinum will be a stretch, but is doable. Anyone thinking beyond those lines are over-optimistic. I admire the optimism, but a reality check needs to be realized. The climate of the music industry now days with a band like Journey will dictate a disappointment to those with such lofty ambitions.

"Platinum will be a stretch"? Not hardly.

The album will go platinum before the U.S. tour is even over.

Let's recap: to date, 670,234 CDs sold (at 2x per album) .....

That means that at the current sales rate, Journey will be about 70% of the way to getting a platinum certification (1,000,000 CDs) by next Tuesday. They only have to sell 13,740 albums per week for the rest of the U.S. tour for the album to go platinum ..... The lowest-selling week was two weeks ago, with 23,642. And all these numbers were before the Journey-branded mp3 players went on sale ......

My guess is: 1,000,000 CDs by Oct. 8th, and 1,250,000 CDs by Dec. 31st. And I'll bet a bottle of Dom Perignon on that .....

[donnaplease]

Yes, that is ok...that is present VS present.. that would be the fair assumption. Even though Perry is almost a couple decades older than Pineda, doesn't escape the fact that you actually could compare the two since they'd both be singing in today's day in age. That leaves people no choice with the comparable fact..since everyone loves to compare and would if such a thing would happen. You can't go back in time 30 years ago and put a 40 year old Pineda up against a 29 year old Perry while at the same time someone is in their prime (Perry.) Pineda's case, he never had a prime.. a right place wrong time sort of thing going on for him right now.

That's why we should compare prime vs. prime.

OK, using your reasoning, could we say that Arnel sucks because in 1982 he couldn't sing as well as Steve Perry could? Of course not. Or in 1978, SP at 29 was better than a 10 year old Arnel? Neither had hit their "prime" yet...?

[strangegrey]

If you don't like someone's opinions, give a counter. There's no need to call out/gripe about it.

WTF's the difference? I didn't like the opinion and I countered...if you interpreted that as a gripe, well then what's to say that an opinion is no less or more valid than a gripe?!

I'm arguing a matter of fact....revelations is not yet platinum and some here are talking bout quadruple platinum?!?!?!?!?!? WTF?!?!?! Let's get back to reality and start dealing with facts before we talk about pipe dreams....

Quadruple Platinum is never happening with this record or this band. Platinum will be a stretch, but is doable. Anyone thinking beyond those lines are over-optimistic. I admire the optimism, but a reality check needs to be realized. The climate of the music industry now days with a band like Journey will dictate a disappointment to those with such lofty ambitions.

Rick, the point I was trying to make is that it strikes at the credibility, if people start saying "this thing's going quintuple platinum" before it even reaches a 'suspect' platinum. By *my* counting, only 350k people have bought this CD, which happens to have an extra CD of quickly anhd haphazardly rerecorded songs. The fact remains that by calling this album 'platinum' is at best, premature (or immature depending on if it actually happens)....at worst, dangerous.

[donnaplease]

Would the numbers sold be increased significantly if, for example, the bonus CD that was included in the Escape Tour DVD was included in their album sales numbers? Or was it? Does anyone know?

I just see those things as a 'bonus', and therefore shouldn't be included in the total numbers. It seems like cheating to me. IMO, the re-records shouldn't be counted in there, since they were included as a bonus to the new album, Revelation.

[Rick]

If you don't like someone's opinions, give a counter. There's no need to call out/gripe about it.

WTF's the difference? I didn't like the opinion and I countered...if you interpreted that as a gripe, well then what's to say that an opinion is no less or more valid than a gripe?!

I'm arguing a matter of fact....revelations is not yet platinum and some here are talking bout quadruple platinum?!?!?!?!?!? WTF?!?!?! Let's get back to reality and start dealing with facts before we talk about pipe dreams....

Quadruple Platinum is never happening with this record or this band. Platinum will be a stretch, but is doable. Anyone thinking beyond those lines are over-optimistic. I admire the optimism, but a reality check needs to be realized. The climate of the music industry now days with a band like Journey will dictate a disappointment to those with such lofty ambitions.

"Platinum will be a stretch"? Not hardly.

The album will go platinum before the U.S. tour is even over.

Let's recap: to date, 670,234 CDs sold (at 2x per album) .....

That means that at the current sales rate, Journey will be about 70% of the way to getting a platinum certification (1,000,000 CDs) by next Tuesday. They only have to sell 13,740 albums per week for the rest of the U.S. tour for the album to go platinum ..... The lowest-selling week was two weeks ago, with 23,642. And all these numbers were before the Journey-branded mp3 players went on sale ......

My guess is: 1,000,000 CDs by Oct. 8th, and 1,250,000 CDs by Dec. 31st. And I'll bet a bottle of Dom Perignon on that .....

I sure hope you're right. I'm just trying to keep it real. The music buying public isn't what it once was.

I think this CD deserves Platinum for sure, but there's a fuckload of piracy to figure into the equation, sadly.

[Rick]

Would the numbers sold be increased significantly if, for example, the bonus CD that was included in the Escape Tour DVD was included in their album sales numbers? Or was it? Does anyone know?

I just see those things as a 'bonus', and therefore shouldn't be included in the total numbers. It seems like cheating to me. IMO, the re-records shouldn't be counted in there, since they were included as a bonus to the new album, Revelation.

Well, the way the deal was originally was that Walmart wanted the rerecorded GH, and anything else as the bonus. They asked for 4 new songs to be added. Journey swapped it around and made it a full disc of new music, plus the rerecorded GH. The DVD doesn't count at all. Not even on it's own. Kind of a waste, really.

[donnaplease]

Would the numbers sold be increased significantly if, for example, the bonus CD that was included in the Escape Tour DVD was included in their album sales numbers? Or was it? Does anyone know?

I just see those things as a 'bonus', and therefore shouldn't be included in the total numbers. It seems like cheating to me. IMO, the re-records shouldn't be counted in there, since they were included as a bonus to the new album, Revelation.

Well, the way the deal was originally was that Walmart wanted the rerecorded GH, and anything else as the bonus. They asked for 4 new songs to be added. Journey swapped it around and made it a full disc of new music, plus the rerecorded GH. The DVD doesn't count at all. Not even on it's own. Kind of a waste, really.

Then Wal-Mart needs to be bitch-slapped!!!

[Don]

Good job Edcha, your first thread and you're up to three pages.

[Rick]

Would the numbers sold be increased significantly if, for example, the bonus CD that was included in the Escape Tour DVD was included in their album sales numbers? Or was it? Does anyone know?

I just see those things as a 'bonus', and therefore shouldn't be included in the total numbers. It seems like cheating to me. IMO, the re-records shouldn't be counted in there, since they were included as a bonus to the new album, Revelation.

Well, the way the deal was originally was that Walmart wanted the rerecorded GH, and anything else as the bonus. They asked for 4 new songs to be added. Journey swapped it around and made it a full disc of new music, plus the rerecorded GH. The DVD doesn't count at all. Not even on it's own. Kind of a waste, really.

Then Wal-Mart needs to be bitch-slapped!!!

They pay Journey a lot more per sale than any traditional label, so while I agree with your sentiments, you can't really blame them.

[separate_wayz]

If you don't like someone's opinions, give a counter. There's no need to call out/gripe about it.

WTF's the difference? I didn't like the opinion and I countered...if you interpreted that as a gripe, well then what's to say that an opinion is no less or more valid than a gripe?!

I'm arguing a matter of fact....revelations is not yet platinum and some here are talking bout quadruple platinum?!?!?!?!?!? WTF?!?!?! Let's get back to reality and start dealing with facts before we talk about pipe dreams....

Quadruple Platinum is never happening with this record or this band. Platinum will be a stretch, but is doable. Anyone thinking beyond those lines are over-optimistic. I admire the optimism, but a reality check needs to be realized. The climate of the music industry now days with a band like Journey will dictate a disappointment to those with such lofty ambitions.

"Platinum will be a stretch"? Not hardly.

The album will go platinum before the U.S. tour is even over.

Let's recap: to date, 670,234 CDs sold (at 2x per album) .....

That means that at the current sales rate, Journey will be about 70% of the way to getting a platinum certification (1,000,000 CDs) by next Tuesday. They only have to sell 13,740 albums per week for the rest of the U.S. tour for the album to go platinum ..... The lowest-selling week was two weeks ago, with 23,642. And all these numbers were before the Journey-branded mp3 players went on sale ......

My guess is: 1,000,000 CDs by Oct. 8th, and 1,250,000 CDs by Dec. 31st. And I'll bet a bottle of Dom Perignon on that .....

I sure hope you're right. I'm just trying to keep it real. The music buying public isn't what it once was.

I think this CD deserves Platinum for sure, but there's a fuckload of piracy to figure into the equation, sadly.

No, you're absolutely right. Buying CDs is a bit of an anachronism at this point, although I would buy a CD if I knew it had a lot of good music on it. (I download music, but never for free unless it's a rare track that isn't even sold on any album anywhere.)

I think what strikes me as notable in 2008 vs. 2001 is how ahead of the curve Journey and Wal-Mart are with their marketing (i.e., 'Revelation' marketed direct to retail, pre-packaged in an mp3 player, etc.) versus how behind the curve Journey and Sony were with the marketing of 'Arrival' (with Sony sharing most of the blame in the latter case). With the current marketing effort, I think Wal-Mart has a big interest in making this arrangement work with Journey, for the purpose of highlighting the success for future bands that Wal-Mart wants to steal away from the record labels.

As far as downloading goes, I recommended 'Revelation' to someone -- and she loved it. "I love these songs! I gotta get this album!" she said, barely able to control her excitement. So I thought: oh great, chalk-up one more sale for Journey. Wrong. She went the next day and downloaded the entire album from limewire. I mean, jeezus ......

..... but at the $11.88 price point (for two CDs and a DVD), Wal-Mart is almost making it not worth stealing (a.k.a. downloading).

[Rick]

If you don't like someone's opinions, give a counter. There's no need to call out/gripe about it.

WTF's the difference? I didn't like the opinion and I countered...if you interpreted that as a gripe, well then what's to say that an opinion is no less or more valid than a gripe?!

I'm arguing a matter of fact....revelations is not yet platinum and some here are talking bout quadruple platinum?!?!?!?!?!? WTF?!?!?! Let's get back to reality and start dealing with facts before we talk about pipe dreams....

Quadruple Platinum is never happening with this record or this band. Platinum will be a stretch, but is doable. Anyone thinking beyond those lines are over-optimistic. I admire the optimism, but a reality check needs to be realized. The climate of the music industry now days with a band like Journey will dictate a disappointment to those with such lofty ambitions.

"Platinum will be a stretch"? Not hardly.

The album will go platinum before the U.S. tour is even over.

Let's recap: to date, 670,234 CDs sold (at 2x per album) .....

That means that at the current sales rate, Journey will be about 70% of the way to getting a platinum certification (1,000,000 CDs) by next Tuesday. They only have to sell 13,740 albums per week for the rest of the U.S. tour for the album to go platinum ..... The lowest-selling week was two weeks ago, with 23,642. And all these numbers were before the Journey-branded mp3 players went on sale ......

My guess is: 1,000,000 CDs by Oct. 8th, and 1,250,000 CDs by Dec. 31st. And I'll bet a bottle of Dom Perignon on that .....

I sure hope you're right. I'm just trying to keep it real. The music buying public isn't what it once was.

I think this CD deserves Platinum for sure, but there's a fuckload of piracy to figure into the equation, sadly.

No, you're absolutely right. Buying CDs is a bit of an anachronism at this point, although I would buy a CD if I knew it had a lot of good music on it. (I download music, but never for free unless it's a rare track that isn't even sold on any album anywhere.)

I think what strikes me as notable in 2008 vs. 2001 is how ahead of the curve Journey and Wal-Mart are with their marketing (i.e., 'Revelation' marketed direct to retail, pre-packaged in an mp3 player, etc.) versus how behind the curve Journey and Sony were with the marketing of 'Arrival' (with Sony sharing most of the blame in the latter case). With the current marketing effort, I think Wal-Mart has a big interest in making this arrangement work with Journey, for the purpose of highlighting the success for future bands that Wal-Mart wants to steal away from the record labels.

As far as downloading goes, I recommended 'Revelation' to someone -- and she loved it. "I love these songs! I gotta get this album!" she said, barely able to control her excitement. So I thought: oh great, chalk-up one more sale for Journey. Wrong. She went the next day and downloaded the entire album from limewire. I mean, jeezus ......

..... but at the $11.88 price point (for two CDs and a DVD), Wal-Mart is almost making it not worth stealing (a.k.a. downloading).

Yep, you'd think at that price, people wouldn't risk their computers health screwing with a scummy program like Limewire. I'm a bit of a computer geek, and know (and this goes for EVERYONE reading this) it's best to stay away from Limewire. If you want to preview music, go with a non-adware/malware solution like eMule. emule-project.com

My addendum to this is, if you like it, please buy it.

[YoungJRNY]

Yes, that is ok...that is present VS present.. that would be the fair assumption. Even though Perry is almost a couple decades older than Pineda, doesn't escape the fact that you actually could compare the two since they'd both be singing in today's day in age. That leaves people no choice with the comparable fact..since everyone loves to compare and would if such a thing would happen. You can't go back in time 30 years ago and put a 40 year old Pineda up against a 29 year old Perry while at the same time someone is in their prime (Perry.) Pineda's case, he never had a prime.. a right place wrong time sort of thing going on for him right now.

That's why we should compare prime vs. prime.

OK, using your reasoning, could we say that Arnel sucks because in 1982 he couldn't sing as well as Steve Perry could? Of course not. Or in 1978, SP at 29 was better than a 10 year old Arnel? Neither had hit their "prime" yet...?

Exactly why when it comes down to it, there really isn't that much that can go into such an argument. We are trying to complete a figure 8 when all we are doing is going in circles. But hey, we tried I'm glad we at least took a shot at it and like you said had a good debate in the process. Hope we can re kindle a flame when SP comes back once and for all! Nice talkin' with yah girlie..fun stuff

[Vladan]

Lets get real. You can't compare Steve Perry to Steve Perry anymore. When comparing the two, you're comparing not only two different styles and era, but two different area's..and by area I mean age. 40 Year Old Arnel Pineda... VS 20-some year old Steve Perry. Come on. All I know is..is that Arnel is worthy to share the same microphone as Steve Perry if they were both on stage. He might not be in the same league as a 20 year old Perry, but he sure as hell could carry his jock if Steve needed it. Here's my take. You can't compare someone to a legendary performer/singer. But IMO you can compare today vs today. Judging by Perry's age alone lets say he re-records the GH. You want to talk about bad? Arnel is far more qualified today than Steve would be, and I give him kudos for even agreeing to such a thing (I'm sure he didn't have a choice, eh? ) I'll bet my house that if Steve Perry comes out to sing NWA, he wouldn't be able to hit half of those notes if his life depended on it. They cross each other out. 80's Steve Perry vs 08's Pineda-Winner: Perry. '08 Perry Vs '08 Pineda -Winner: Pineda.

Back to your recently scheduled program.

This is hilarious... NOT!

Soooooo... you can't compare the 40 year-old Arnel to the 20-something Steve Perry, but it's ok to compare a 40 year old Arnel to a late 50's Steve Perry???? Someone PLEASE tell me the rationale in that???

Steve Perry was 29 when he first joined Journey in the late 70's. That would make him about 35 when Journey released Frontiers. Considering the tour schedules that Journey followed back in the day, there is NO way in hell that Arnel could hold a candle (OR a jock-strap) to Steve Perry in his prime. Good try, but no bananas.

Yes, that is ok...that is present VS present.. that would be the fair assumption. Even though Perry is almost a couple decades older than Pineda, doesn't escape the fact that you actually could compare the two since they'd both be singing in today's day in age. That leaves people no choice with the comparable fact..since everyone loves to compare and would if such a thing would happen. You can't go back in time 30 years ago and put a 40 year old Pineda up against a 29 year old Perry while at the same time someone is in their prime (Perry.) Pineda's case, he never had a prime.. a right place wrong time sort of thing going on for him right now.

Another thing, you say Perry was around 35 when hit his full stride prime. That gave him 6 years worth of a young voice to work with and 6 years to train the pipes and make them stronger singing on a night to night basis.. since the voice works JUST like a muscle. A young voice allows you to sing a brutal tour schedule and it was only making him stronger at that point. Of course it catches up with you in a later age, which it did.

Pineda never had that experience to "warm up the vocal compatibly" TODAY and is 3 months in singing at the age of 40 a catalog that destroys and sings it just as good as Perry did in his 30's. He doesn't speak english and even that probably isn't his first or possibly even 2nd or 3rd language! He isn't better than a Prime Perry, obviously..never will be. We get that. But IMO I think Mr. Pineda is a LITTLE better than some think and deserves a better pull than any other if you want to compare.

What you aren't taking into consideration is that 99.99999% of the Journey-loving population (the pre-Arnel variety) would rather have Steve Perry singing with Journey than ANYONE else, now or ever. It's not a slam against Arnel, it just is what it is. It's funny that folks argue Arnel's inexperience when it's convenient, yet never fail to mention his many years singing in Asia when it serves them. Another thing, that 'night to night basis' you mention... would you not agree that it must've been horribly damaging to SP's voice? Any muscle overused becomes damaged from the strain.

This is a good debate. I doubt there will ever be a clear winner declared, however, unless Steve Perry comes out and proves one side wrong, once and for all. I read somewhere on here that someone questioned why the re-records were an issue to the Perry fans. Discussions like this are the reason. When folks come here and argue that Arnel is better than Steve Perry on the classic Journey songs, we 'loons' have a problem with it. If you want to argue that today Arnel has a stronger voice than SP, I'd probably give you that (see above). I personally don't like his delivery of some of the DD, and we really can't compare how SP would sing NWA, because we have no way to gauge it one way or the other. However, you will never... and the Rock means EVER... convince me that Arnel Pineda is a better and/or more valuable asset to the band known as Journey.

Arnel Pineda is not new to the game, is a full on veteran when it comes to singing. Arnel Pineda has over 20 years of singing experieinc under his best, he's been singing for a very long time. Nobody sings the classics tunes like Perry, and the stuff that's been released since his departure as ALL been no more than medicore, nothing brilliant i'm afaid - good, not brilliant.

[Since 78]

Lets get real. You can't compare Steve Perry to Steve Perry anymore. When comparing the two, you're comparing not only two different styles and era, but two different area's..and by area I mean age. 40 Year Old Arnel Pineda... VS 20-some year old Steve Perry. Come on. All I know is..is that Arnel is worthy to share the same microphone as Steve Perry if they were both on stage. He might not be in the same league as a 20 year old Perry, but he sure as hell could carry his jock if Steve needed it. Here's my take. You can't compare someone to a legendary performer/singer. But IMO you can compare today vs today. Judging by Perry's age alone lets say he re-records the GH. You want to talk about bad? Arnel is far more qualified today than Steve would be, and I give him kudos for even agreeing to such a thing (I'm sure he didn't have a choice, eh? ) I'll bet my house that if Steve Perry comes out to sing NWA, he wouldn't be able to hit half of those notes if his life depended on it. They cross each other out. 80's Steve Perry vs 08's Pineda-Winner: Perry. '08 Perry Vs '08 Pineda -Winner: Pineda.

Back to your recently scheduled program.

This is hilarious... NOT!

Soooooo... you can't compare the 40 year-old Arnel to the 20-something Steve Perry, but it's ok to compare a 40 year old Arnel to a late 50's Steve Perry???? Someone PLEASE tell me the rationale in that???

Steve Perry was 29 when he first joined Journey in the late 70's. That would make him about 35 when Journey released Frontiers. Considering the tour schedules that Journey followed back in the day, there is NO way in hell that Arnel could hold a candle (OR a jock-strap) to Steve Perry in his prime. Good try, but no bananas.

Yes, that is ok...that is present VS present.. that would be the fair assumption. Even though Perry is almost a couple decades older than Pineda, doesn't escape the fact that you actually could compare the two since they'd both be singing in today's day in age. That leaves people no choice with the comparable fact..since everyone loves to compare and would if such a thing would happen. You can't go back in time 30 years ago and put a 40 year old Pineda up against a 29 year old Perry while at the same time someone is in their prime (Perry.) Pineda's case, he never had a prime.. a right place wrong time sort of thing going on for him right now.

Another thing, you say Perry was around 35 when hit his full stride prime. That gave him 6 years worth of a young voice to work with and 6 years to train the pipes and make them stronger singing on a night to night basis.. since the voice works JUST like a muscle. A young voice allows you to sing a brutal tour schedule and it was only making him stronger at that point. Of course it catches up with you in a later age, which it did.

Pineda never had that experience to "warm up the vocal compatibly" TODAY and is 3 months in singing at the age of 40 a catalog that destroys and sings it just as good as Perry did in his 30's. He doesn't speak english and even that probably isn't his first or possibly even 2nd or 3rd language! He isn't better than a Prime Perry, obviously..never will be. We get that. But IMO I think Mr. Pineda is a LITTLE better than some think and deserves a better pull than any other if you want to compare.

What you aren't taking into consideration is that 99.99999% of the Journey-loving population (the pre-Arnel variety) would rather have Steve Perry singing with Journey than ANYONE else, now or ever. It's not a slam against Arnel, it just is what it is. It's funny that folks argue Arnel's inexperience when it's convenient, yet never fail to mention his many years singing in Asia when it serves them. Another thing, that 'night to night basis' you mention... would you not agree that it must've been horribly damaging to SP's voice? Any muscle overused becomes damaged from the strain.

This is a good debate. I doubt there will ever be a clear winner declared, however, unless Steve Perry comes out and proves one side wrong, once and for all. I read somewhere on here that someone questioned why the re-records were an issue to the Perry fans. Discussions like this are the reason. When folks come here and argue that Arnel is better than Steve Perry on the classic Journey songs, we 'loons' have a problem with it. If you want to argue that today Arnel has a stronger voice than SP, I'd probably give you that (see above). I personally don't like his delivery of some of the DD, and we really can't compare how SP would sing NWA, because we have no way to gauge it one way or the other. However, you will never... and the Rock means EVER... convince me that Arnel Pineda is a better and/or more valuable asset to the band known as Journey.

Arnel Pineda is not new to the game, is a full on veteran when it comes to singing. Arnel Pineda has over 20 years of singing experieinc under his best, he's been singing for a very long time. Nobody sings the classics tunes like Perry, and the stuff that's been released since his departure as ALL been no more than medicore, nothing brilliant i'm afaid - good, not brilliant.

Sorry, but the last release by Journey With Perry was far from "Brilliant" TBF was a very mediocre album, except for WYLAW. Arrival was far better and Revelation is the best since Frontiers.

[wednesday's child]

Arnel Pineda is not new to the game, is a full on veteran when it comes to singing. Arnel Pineda has over 20 years of singing experieinc under his best, he's been singing for a very long time. Nobody sings the classics tunes like Perry, and the stuff that's been released since his departure as ALL been no more than medicore, nothing brilliant i'm afaid - good, not brilliant.

So, which the fuck is it?
Is it "no more than mediocre", or "good (but) not brilliant"?

-wech

[Don]

Sorry, but the last release by Journey With Perry was far from "Brilliant" TBF was a very mediocre album, except for WYLAW. Arrival was far better and Revelation is the best since Frontiers.

[Since 78]

Arnel Pineda is not new to the game, is a full on veteran when it comes to singing. Arnel Pineda has over 20 years of singing experieinc under his best, he's been singing for a very long time. Nobody sings the classics tunes like Perry, and the stuff that's been released since his departure as ALL been no more than medicore, nothing brilliant i'm afaid - good, not brilliant.

So, which the fuck is it?
Is it "no more than mediocre", or "good (but) not brilliant"?

-wech

Good one wech!!

[Rick]

I disagree. While I agree Revelation is a better record than ROR or TBF, nobody sings a fucking lick better than Perry.

[DSHinMICH]

I SO have to agree Rick!!

[Don]

I disagree. While I agree Revelation is a better record than ROR or TBF, nobody sings a fucking lick better than Perry.

No argument concerning Perry's chops, but for me TBF had too much other shit going on with it. All the sound effects and speakovers and multilayered tracking were really a departure from the sound I was used to. It's like wearing Armani when all you need is Levi's.
Revelation doesn't pretend to be anything it's not, just a straight up rock and roll album with out all the fancy bells and whistles.

Edited because I got SW2 spelling syndrome.

[Since 78]

I disagree. While I agree Revelation is a better record than ROR or TBF, nobody sings a fucking lick better than Perry.

Not sure who you're disagreeing with? If its me, then you do agree, I was talking about albums not vocals!

[Rick]

I disagree. While I agree Revelation is a better record than ROR or TBF, nobody sings a fucking lick better than Perry.

Not sure who you're disagreeing with? If its me, then you do agree, I was talking about albums not vocals!

No idea. I'm hammered.

[Since 78]

I disagree. While I agree Revelation is a better record than ROR or TBF, nobody sings a fucking lick better than Perry.

Not sure who you're disagreeing with? If its me, then you do agree, I was talking about albums not vocals!

No idea. I'm hammered.

I'm Workin on it!