journey should...

[skinsguy]

If you didn't like Arnel when it first was announced you were considered a racist and lumped with that group.

Exactly! That's the point I was making, Gunbot. I think it was just a bit narrow-mided. That's why I found it strange that it's suddenly ok to talk about diction. A bit hypocritical, but hey, it's all in the past.

I think we've got beyond that now, no more dog eating commentary or photoshop images.

I hope we have, and hope those who were quick to judge realize now that just because people had issues with Arnel's diction wasn't being racist about it.

He still does have a few diction issues, just like Sheena Easton, Celine Dionne and others when they first started sing in American English. If anyone wants to bring it up as racist critique, let them. That card won't play here this time.

I think he does still have diction issues that probably will never be corrected. There are certain nationalities that just have a hard time with the English language unless taught at a really, really young age. Celine Dion, I never heard any accent or diction issues with the English language in her singing. For some reason, it seems more accepted by Americans if the singer has a Spanish or French accent. I know for me personally, I find a bit of a Spanish accent in English songs sexy (ala Shakira.)

[lights1961]

get rolie Perry Smitty Schon and Valory do a last tribute LP to one of the GREAT AMERICAN Bands..
then retire...

Rick

[skinsguy]

get rolie Perry Smitty Schon and Valory do a last tribute LP to one of the GREAT AMERICAN Bands..
then retire...

Rick

I'm on board with that!

[Don]

I only come back when I see hypocrisy. I never posted ANY picture of anything like that. Others did, INCLUDING the BIGGEST "Arnel supporter" now, St. John. If you read back a few hundred pages, you'll see a LOT of people who didn't stick their guns...so Shut the fuck up before you know the facts.

Did I say you did it, no. Did I say anyone flipflopped, no. I don't need to shut the fuck up. I've been a fan of the band for a long time. When I saw them on the Escape tour, were you even born yet? A fact I do know is the board generates revenue for Andrew and he wasn't helped at all by the shit going on here a while back. I've got no bone with you Liam but you generalized everyone in your statement and in turn I did the same.

[Don]

get rolie Perry Smitty Schon and Valory do a last tribute LP to one of the GREAT AMERICAN Bands..
then retire...

Rick

I'm on board with that!

I support that also.

[bluejeangirl76]

I think he does still have diction issues that probably will never be corrected. There are certain nationalities that just have a hard time with the English language unless taught at a really, really young age.

I think its any language that isn't one's native language.
Arnel is going to have diction issues with English the same way I know I'd NEVER be able to handle ANY of the Asian languages. Its not a race issue to say so either. For example, Rhi and I pick on each other all the time about our respective accents and diction... it doesn't mean I hate people from the south. It just means I think is funny that sometimes she talks like Boomhauer from King of the Hill and she thinks its funny that I say stuff like "youse" and "Chicaaahh-go". She made fun of me once for "oil" and I'm still not sure why.

[skinsguy]

I only come back when I see hypocrisy. I never posted ANY picture of anything like that. Others did, INCLUDING the BIGGEST "Arnel supporter" now, St. John. If you read back a few hundred pages, you'll see a LOT of people who didn't stick their guns...so Shut the fuck up before you know the facts.

Did I say you did it, no. Did I say anyone flipflopped, no. I don't need to shut the fuck up. I've been a fan of the band for a long time. When I saw them on the Escape tour, were you even born yet? A fact I do know is the board generates revenue for Andrew and he wasn't helped at all by the shit going on here a while back. I've got no truck with you Liam but you generalized everyone in your statement and I in turn I did the same.

Well, in Liam's defense, he was lumped into the same category. Just like you, Gunbot, said. People were lumped into the racist category for comments about Arnel's diction. And, it was true, during the "photoshop" moments, there were individuals who went along with it and then suddenly became strongly against it. Certainly I have no way of proving it, other than just remembering reading a lot of it and following it back then.

I do agree with you though, this is Andrew's livelihood and we all should be a little more sensitive to that. But, on the other hand, having a discussion forum is going to bring quite a bit of risk.

[skinsguy]

I think he does still have diction issues that probably will never be corrected. There are certain nationalities that just have a hard time with the English language unless taught at a really, really young age.

I think its any language that isn't one's native language.
Arnel is going to have dictions issues with English the same way I know I'd NEVER be able to handle ANY of the Asian languages. Its not a race issue to say so either. For example, Rhi and I pick on each other all the time about our respective accents and diction... it doesn't mean I hate people from the south. It just means I think is funny that sometimes she talks like Boomhauer from King of the Hill and she thinks its funny that I say stuff like "youse" and "Chicaaahh-go". She made fun of me once for "oil" and I'm still not sure why.

Haha! Yeah, that's why I could never understand the racial card being given out to those who complained about Arnel's diction. It's not an issue with his skin color...lol! I guess it shows the education level of some.

I betcha a nice, shiny nickel that Rhi and I both have similar accents, as I'm from the "country" south as well.

[Don]

I understand why Liam is upset but he used a scattergun in his post instead of directing it at anyone in particular. I turned around and did the same thing so I am a hypocrite in that sense. I know what was said here back then. I joined the board because I heard JSS had hung out here. When things went south I didn't pile on on either side of the argument as I It was obvious some fans were generally hurt. Now that time has passed, JSS seems happy where he is at, Augeri, seems alright too. The past isn't going to change so I don't see any need to dwell on it.

[Rick]

I only come back when I see hypocrisy. I never posted ANY picture of anything like that. Others did, INCLUDING the BIGGEST "Arnel supporter" now, St. John. If you read back a few hundred pages, you'll see a LOT of people who didn't stick their guns...so Shut the fuck up before you know the facts.

If I'm one of the hypocrites you're talking about, fine. I'll admit right up front I wasn't on board with them hiring Arnel at the onset and was pretty vocal about it, but I decided that Journey and their music had been very important to me throughout my life, so why give up on them now? So yeah, I did an about face. If that makes me a hypocrite then I guess I am. It was right after I was banned from the Annex and became allowed to like Arnel, btw. I went to two shows, had a blast at both of them. Not sorry a bit about anything except being a stupid closed minded fuck and not giving Arnel a chance sooner.

[bluejeangirl76]

I only come back when I see hypocrisy. I never posted ANY picture of anything like that. Others did, INCLUDING the BIGGEST "Arnel supporter" now, St. John. If you read back a few hundred pages, you'll see a LOT of people who didn't stick their guns...so Shut the fuck up before you know the facts.

If I'm one of the hypocrites you're talking about, fine. I'll admit right up front I wasn't on board with them hiring Arnel at the onset and was pretty vocal about it, but I decided that Journey and their music had been very important to me throughout my life, so why give up on them now? So yeah, I did an about face. If that makes me a hypocrite then I guess I am. It was right after I was banned from the Annex and became allowed to like Arnel, btw. I went to two shows, had a blast at both of them. Not sorry a bit about anything except being a stupid closed minded fuck and not giving Arnel a chance sooner.

I'm not sure which I am... a hypocrite or a wuss who backed off. LOL! I was against it too, but I never really made an about face and turned "Pro-Journey" either. I just kind of don't care. The album didn't do much for me, and the re-records pissed me off, but I went to the show, and that was fun... but I never hopped on board, really, so I don't know, maybe I'm in a category by myself.

[Rick]

I only come back when I see hypocrisy. I never posted ANY picture of anything like that. Others did, INCLUDING the BIGGEST "Arnel supporter" now, St. John. If you read back a few hundred pages, you'll see a LOT of people who didn't stick their guns...so Shut the fuck up before you know the facts.

If I'm one of the hypocrites you're talking about, fine. I'll admit right up front I wasn't on board with them hiring Arnel at the onset and was pretty vocal about it, but I decided that Journey and their music had been very important to me throughout my life, so why give up on them now? So yeah, I did an about face. If that makes me a hypocrite then I guess I am. It was right after I was banned from the Annex and became allowed to like Arnel, btw. I went to two shows, had a blast at both of them. Not sorry a bit about anything except being a stupid closed minded fuck and not giving Arnel a chance sooner.

I'm not sure which I am... a hypocrite or a wuss who backed off. LOL! I was against it too, but I never really made an about face and turned "Pro-Journey" either. I just kind of don't care. The album didn't do much for me, and the re-records pissed me off, but I went to the show, and that was fun... but I never hopped on board, really, so I don't know, maybe I'm in a category by myself.

You always have been.

[Don]

I only come back when I see hypocrisy. I never posted ANY picture of anything like that. Others did, INCLUDING the BIGGEST "Arnel supporter" now, St. John. If you read back a few hundred pages, you'll see a LOT of people who didn't stick their guns...so Shut the fuck up before you know the facts.

If I'm one of the hypocrites you're talking about, fine. I'll admit right up front I wasn't on board with them hiring Arnel at the onset and was pretty vocal about it, but I decided that Journey and their music had been very important to me throughout my life, so why give up on them now? So yeah, I did an about face. If that makes me a hypocrite then I guess I am. It was right after I was banned from the Annex and became allowed to like Arnel, btw. I went to two shows, had a blast at both of them. Not sorry a bit about anything except being a stupid closed minded fuck and not giving Arnel a chance sooner.

I'm not sure which I am... a hypocrite or a wuss who backed off. LOL! I was against it too, but I never really made an about face and turned "Pro-Journey" either. I just kind of don't care. The album didn't do much for me, and the re-records pissed me off, but I went to the show, and that was fun... but I never hopped on board, really, so I don't know, maybe I'm in a category by myself.

I was on the Arnel train but the fun has worn off a bit. All my memories are tied into those few years from 80 to 84, going to concerts, seeing the videos on MTV, excited about the Heavy Metal soundtrack having a Journey song. Buying Escape on 8track because I couldn't afford to upgrade to a cassette player. Arnel's been great but I wish Revelation could be their Swansong and they could go out on a high, even if it is Sweet&Low instead of real sugar.

[wednesday's child]

Journey should... post on this thread.

[Don]

Journey should... post on MR once in awhile.

Don't they already do that?

[whirlwind]

All I could see for Arnel was the same thing that happened to Perry. The big break that they all dream of. I hope he runs with it as Perry did and knows when to quit before Journey's touring toasts him.

[journeyMusic]

Let me explain where I was coming from with my original question. First of all,I did not know ESC was Filipino so I would admit that him/her making that remark about a fellow countryman would not be a racist remark. I will say tho that many on this board were very much against AP being the frontman of Journey and were very vocal about it. Many remarks were made about his race and his dictation issue was included in those supossed "racist" remarks. Even some that have chimed in on this thread have made remarks that could be consider racist and actually some are on film promoting their displeasure with the selection of AP.

So, by asking a simple question, I have now opened up old wounds for some on this board that could not stand AP in the beginning-- I support Liam's remark--That's very hypocritical.

[S2M]

......change their name to Destination and be done with it.

[Don]

Let me explain where I was coming from with my original question. First of all,I did not know ESC was Filipino so I would admit that him/her making that remark about a fellow countryman would not be a racist remark. I will say tho that many on this board were very much against AP being the frontman of Journey and were very vocal about it. Many remarks were made about his race and his dictation issue was included in those supossed "racist" remarks. Even some that have chimed in on this thread have made remarks that could be consider racist and actually some are on film promoting their displeasure with the selection of AP.

So, by asking a simple question, I have now opened all old wounds for some on this board that could not stand AP in the beginning-- I support Liam's remark--That's very hypocritical.

A few people here have admitted to changing their thoughts over time. But not everyone here is a hypocrite. The hypocrisy would be if someone bashed Arnel in a bigoted or racist way and now jumps on people for purportedly doing the same. I think that was what Liam was saying, he just used a large brush to express himself and I personally took it the wrong way that he was slamming everyone.

[Rick]

Let me explain where I was coming from with my original question. First of all,I did not know ESC was Filipino so I would admit that him/her making that remark about a fellow countryman would not be a racist remark. I will say tho that many on this board were very much against AP being the frontman of Journey and were very vocal about it. Many remarks were made about his race and his dictation issue was included in those supossed "racist" remarks. Even some that have chimed in on this thread have made remarks that could be consider racist and actually some are on film promoting their displeasure with the selection of AP.

So, by asking a simple question, I have now opened up old wounds for some on this board that could not stand AP in the beginning-- I support Liam's remark--That's very hypocritical.

And what are those who have changed their mind supposed to do now? Start hating him again so you'll feel better?

Why don't you post under your original account?

[skinsguy]

Let me explain where I was coming from with my original question. First of all,I did not know ESC was Filipino so I would admit that him/her making that remark about a fellow countryman would not be a racist remark. I will say tho that many on this board were very much against AP being the frontman of Journey and were very vocal about it. Many remarks were made about his race and his dictation issue was included in those supossed "racist" remarks. Even some that have chimed in on this thread have made remarks that could be consider racist and actually some are on film promoting their displeasure with the selection of AP.

So, by asking a simple question, I have now opened up old wounds for some on this board that could not stand AP in the beginning-- I support Liam's remark--That's very hypocritical.

And what are those who have changed their mind supposed to do now? Start hating him again so you'll feel better?

Why don't you post under your original account?

I think JM has made valid comments. I'm curious to see some of those comments from back in the day, from those who are casting stones.

[Rick]

Let me explain where I was coming from with my original question. First of all,I did not know ESC was Filipino so I would admit that him/her making that remark about a fellow countryman would not be a racist remark. I will say tho that many on this board were very much against AP being the frontman of Journey and were very vocal about it. Many remarks were made about his race and his dictation issue was included in those supossed "racist" remarks. Even some that have chimed in on this thread have made remarks that could be consider racist and actually some are on film promoting their displeasure with the selection of AP.

So, by asking a simple question, I have now opened up old wounds for some on this board that could not stand AP in the beginning-- I support Liam's remark--That's very hypocritical.

And what are those who have changed their mind supposed to do now? Start hating him again so you'll feel better?

Why don't you post under your original account?

I think JM has made valid comments. I'm curious to see some of those comments from back in the day, from those who are casting stones.

I would think they're all there, all you have to do is search them out.

[S2M]

I still think the jury is out on an Arnel fronted Journey. If anything, he delayed their extinction by a year, or two...MAX. IF they put out another CD, and that's a HUGE if, it would have to completely blow Revelation out of the water - or they will ride off into the sunset, unceremoniously.

[Rick]

I still think the jury is out on an Arnel fronted Journey. If anything, he delayed their extinction by a year, or two...MAX. IF they put out another CD, and that's a HUGE if, it would have to completely blow Revelation out of the water - or they will ride off into the sunset, unceremoniously.

The term 'Sophomore Slump' has been said a couple of times, but I think Neal, Jon and Ross are too seasoned to let that happen. I was totally surprised at how good of a record Revelation was. I think they can do that well again, at least.

[journeyMusic]

Let me explain where I was coming from with my original question. First of all,I did not know ESC was Filipino so I would admit that him/her making that remark about a fellow countryman would not be a racist remark. I will say tho that many on this board were very much against AP being the frontman of Journey and were very vocal about it. Many remarks were made about his race and his dictation issue was included in those supossed "racist" remarks. Even some that have chimed in on this thread have made remarks that could be consider racist and actually some are on film promoting their displeasure with the selection of AP.

So, by asking a simple question, I have now opened up old wounds for some on this board that could not stand AP in the beginning-- I support Liam's remark--That's very hypocritical.

And what are those who have changed their mind supposed to do now? Start hating him again so you'll feel better?

Why don't you post under your original account?

Original account--- please explain !

[Rick]

Let me explain where I was coming from with my original question. First of all,I did not know ESC was Filipino so I would admit that him/her making that remark about a fellow countryman would not be a racist remark. I will say tho that many on this board were very much against AP being the frontman of Journey and were very vocal about it. Many remarks were made about his race and his dictation issue was included in those supossed "racist" remarks. Even some that have chimed in on this thread have made remarks that could be consider racist and actually some are on film promoting their displeasure with the selection of AP.

So, by asking a simple question, I have now opened up old wounds for some on this board that could not stand AP in the beginning-- I support Liam's remark--That's very hypocritical.

And what are those who have changed their mind supposed to do now? Start hating him again so you'll feel better?

Why don't you post under your original account?

Original account--- please explain !

Well if you were around when all of that went down, it had to have been on another account. The one you're using now was created March of this year.

[journeyMusic]

Let me explain where I was coming from with my original question. First of all,I did not know ESC was Filipino so I would admit that him/her making that remark about a fellow countryman would not be a racist remark. I will say tho that many on this board were very much against AP being the frontman of Journey and were very vocal about it. Many remarks were made about his race and his dictation issue was included in those supossed "racist" remarks. Even some that have chimed in on this thread have made remarks that could be consider racist and actually some are on film promoting their displeasure with the selection of AP.

So, by asking a simple question, I have now opened up old wounds for some on this board that could not stand AP in the beginning-- I support Liam's remark--That's very hypocritical.

And what are those who have changed their mind supposed to do now? Start hating him again so you'll feel better?

Why don't you post under your original account?

Original account--- please explain !

Well if you were around when all of that went down, it had to have been on another account. The one you're using now was created March of this year.

Oh Ok-- Thats fair enough-- I lurked for many months before actually getting an account. Although I did not have an account or post,I was able to read.

[Rick]

Let me explain where I was coming from with my original question. First of all,I did not know ESC was Filipino so I would admit that him/her making that remark about a fellow countryman would not be a racist remark. I will say tho that many on this board were very much against AP being the frontman of Journey and were very vocal about it. Many remarks were made about his race and his dictation issue was included in those supossed "racist" remarks. Even some that have chimed in on this thread have made remarks that could be consider racist and actually some are on film promoting their displeasure with the selection of AP.

So, by asking a simple question, I have now opened up old wounds for some on this board that could not stand AP in the beginning-- I support Liam's remark--That's very hypocritical.

And what are those who have changed their mind supposed to do now? Start hating him again so you'll feel better?

Why don't you post under your original account?

Original account--- please explain !

Well if you were around when all of that went down, it had to have been on another account. The one you're using now was created March of this year.

Oh Ok-- Thats fair enough-- I lurked for many months before actually getting an account. Although I did not have an account or post,I was able to read.

I forget you can read the site without an account. So who was skins guy? Or is that the same answer?

[journeyMusic]

Let me explain where I was coming from with my original question. First of all,I did not know ESC was Filipino so I would admit that him/her making that remark about a fellow countryman would not be a racist remark. I will say tho that many on this board were very much against AP being the frontman of Journey and were very vocal about it. Many remarks were made about his race and his dictation issue was included in those supossed "racist" remarks. Even some that have chimed in on this thread have made remarks that could be consider racist and actually some are on film promoting their displeasure with the selection of AP.

So, by asking a simple question, I have now opened up old wounds for some on this board that could not stand AP in the beginning-- I support Liam's remark--That's very hypocritical.

And what are those who have changed their mind supposed to do now? Start hating him again so you'll feel better?

Why don't you post under your original account?

Original account--- please explain !

Well if you were around when all of that went down, it had to have been on another account. The one you're using now was created March of this year.

Oh Ok-- Thats fair enough-- I lurked for many months before actually getting an account. Although I did not have an account or post,I was able to read.

I forget you can read the site without an account. So who was skins guy? Or is that the same answer?

I have no idea who skins guy is- nor care really.

[Esc]

ok guys, since this thread got derailed anyway...
id like to offer some of these: local beer and sizzling sisig.
hey gunbot have you tried Mig Lights before?
i bet youd prefer these over guinness.