If Steve Perry never got into that hiking accident...

[NoMoreTails]

It's really not this great mystery. At some point, Perry decided he couldn't do the tour because of physical limitations or that he just didn't want to do the tour. It hurt the band, it hurt him, and it hurt the fans. Most of us have recovered. The band sure has. Maybe the rest of you should as well.

As an aside, if it is indeed true that Perry was strong-armed into making Trial by Fire by Sony, it should have been no surprise that he bailed on the tour. Both the ROR and FTLOSM tours were cut short at Perry's insistence and after albums that he was the driving force behind. If any of the band members or management claim they were shocked he didn't tour, they must be stupid beyond belief.

I don't think he was strong armed, I think its more likely he just didn't want a reunion of the band that didn't include him.
You're right in that management and band should have known what he was up to, I think Herbie said he even told them at the time.

[onmyjrny]

I had nearly forgotten about the outstanding "I Stand A--croak--lone...uh..."
A very profound statement in regards to Perry's life it would seem.
The hip wouldn't have kept him from making appearances to promote TBF on the late shows, etc. I believe Cain said he could have sat on a stool or whatever. The voice was shot. I have no problem with him not going out on the road if he couldn't meet the standards he set for himself, but he shouldn't have strung the band and the fans along with the hip bs.

Why are you so sure it is BS? That comment about the stool is the most pathetic thing I have ever heard. Can you imagine going to a rock concert and having the lead singer up in front on a stool? Give me a break!!

You are contradicting yourself by saying that Cain said he could have sat on a stool, and then saying that it was all BS. Was the whole band lying?

I think the stool comment was in regards to a late show appearance, etc, rather than a tour.
I don't think so, if you'd kept up with the whole saga since 1997 you would have gathered that the band thinks its bullshit, though they have gone along with it to an extent to the media and fans.

The stool comment was originally said in regards to a tour after TBF. I remember hearing it back then and thinking how stupid that would be. I have kept up with the whole saga since 1997, and the only person I recall coming out to say the hip story was BS was Herbie. He has his own agenda against Perry. Recent comments from Cain and Smitty seem to indicate the hip story is true. I would be inclined to believe Smitty more than anyone else.

And BTW, I HAVE gotten over it, but the hatred (and I do not think that is too strong of a word) against Perry on these boards just drives me nuts. It forces me to respond. I think it drives a wedge too, between some fans and Arnel, which is unfortunate.

[NoMoreTails]

I had nearly forgotten about the outstanding "I Stand A--croak--lone...uh..."
A very profound statement in regards to Perry's life it would seem.
The hip wouldn't have kept him from making appearances to promote TBF on the late shows, etc. I believe Cain said he could have sat on a stool or whatever. The voice was shot. I have no problem with him not going out on the road if he couldn't meet the standards he set for himself, but he shouldn't have strung the band and the fans along with the hip bs.

Why are you so sure it is BS? That comment about the stool is the most pathetic thing I have ever heard. Can you imagine going to a rock concert and having the lead singer up in front on a stool? Give me a break!!

You are contradicting yourself by saying that Cain said he could have sat on a stool, and then saying that it was all BS. Was the whole band lying?

I think the stool comment was in regards to a late show appearance, etc, rather than a tour.
I don't think so, if you'd kept up with the whole saga since 1997 you would have gathered that the band thinks its bullshit, though they have gone along with it to an extent to the media and fans.

The stool comment was originally said in regards to a tour after TBF. I remember hearing it back then and thinking how stupid that would be. I have kept up with the whole saga since 1997, and the only person I recall coming out to say the hip story was BS was Herbie. He has his own agenda against Perry. Recent comments from Cain and Smitty seem to indicate the hip story is true. I would be inclined to believe Smitty more than anyone else.

And BTW, I HAVE gotten over it, but the hatred (and I do not think that is too strong of a word) against Perry on these boards just drives me nuts. It forces me to respond. I think it drives a wedge too, between some fans and Arnel, which is unfortunate.

I was not the one who made the reference to getting over it, but I am glad you included that thought here. Its good to hear a hardcore Perry fan admit that some dislike Arnel (and Journey without Perry) only because he is not Perry, not based on his ability.

[Abitaman]

It goes on and on, on and on, it's .......

[onmyjrny]

I had nearly forgotten about the outstanding "I Stand A--croak--lone...uh..."
A very profound statement in regards to Perry's life it would seem.
The hip wouldn't have kept him from making appearances to promote TBF on the late shows, etc. I believe Cain said he could have sat on a stool or whatever. The voice was shot. I have no problem with him not going out on the road if he couldn't meet the standards he set for himself, but he shouldn't have strung the band and the fans along with the hip bs.

Why are you so sure it is BS? That comment about the stool is the most pathetic thing I have ever heard. Can you imagine going to a rock concert and having the lead singer up in front on a stool? Give me a break!!

You are contradicting yourself by saying that Cain said he could have sat on a stool, and then saying that it was all BS. Was the whole band lying?

I think the stool comment was in regards to a late show appearance, etc, rather than a tour.
I don't think so, if you'd kept up with the whole saga since 1997 you would have gathered that the band thinks its bullshit, though they have gone along with it to an extent to the media and fans.

The stool comment was originally said in regards to a tour after TBF. I remember hearing it back then and thinking how stupid that would be. I have kept up with the whole saga since 1997, and the only person I recall coming out to say the hip story was BS was Herbie. He has his own agenda against Perry. Recent comments from Cain and Smitty seem to indicate the hip story is true. I would be inclined to believe Smitty more than anyone else.

And BTW, I HAVE gotten over it, but the hatred (and I do not think that is too strong of a word) against Perry on these boards just drives me nuts. It forces me to respond. I think it drives a wedge too, between some fans and Arnel, which is unfortunate.

I was not the one who made the reference to getting over it, but I am glad you included that thought here. Its good to hear a hardcore Perry fan admit that some dislike Arnel (and Journey without Perry) only because he is not Perry, not based on his ability.

You may be right, but do you not see how your derogatory remarks (both here and on YouTube) might be perpetuating this? Maybe if you'd back off a little, fans of the classic lineup would become less defensive and begin to accept Arnel. JMHO.

[Monker]

I had nearly forgotten about the outstanding "I Stand A--croak--lone...uh..."
A very profound statement in regards to Perry's life it would seem.
The hip wouldn't have kept him from making appearances to promote TBF on the late shows, etc. I believe Cain said he could have sat on a stool or whatever. The voice was shot. I have no problem with him not going out on the road if he couldn't meet the standards he set for himself, but he shouldn't have strung the band and the fans along with the hip bs.

Why are you so sure it is BS? That comment about the stool is the most pathetic thing I have ever heard. Can you imagine going to a rock concert and having the lead singer up in front on a stool? Give me a break!!

You are contradicting yourself by saying that Cain said he could have sat on a stool, and then saying that it was all BS. Was the whole band lying?

I think the stool comment was in regards to a late show appearance, etc, rather than a tour.
I don't think so, if you'd kept up with the whole saga since 1997 you would have gathered that the band thinks its bullshit, though they have gone along with it to an extent to the media and fans.

The stool comment was originally said in regards to a tour after TBF. I remember hearing it back then and thinking how stupid that would be. I have kept up with the whole saga since 1997, and the only person I recall coming out to say the hip story was BS was Herbie. He has his own agenda against Perry. Recent comments from Cain and Smitty seem to indicate the hip story is true. I would be inclined to believe Smitty more than anyone else.

And BTW, I HAVE gotten over it, but the hatred (and I do not think that is too strong of a word) against Perry on these boards just drives me nuts. It forces me to respond. I think it drives a wedge too, between some fans and Arnel, which is unfortunate.

I was not the one who made the reference to getting over it, but I am glad you included that thought here. Its good to hear a hardcore Perry fan admit that some dislike Arnel (and Journey without Perry) only because he is not Perry, not based on his ability.

You may be right, but do you not see how your derogatory remarks (both here and on YouTube) might be perpetuating this? Maybe if you'd back off a little, fans of the classic lineup would become less defensive and begin to accept Arnel. JMHO.

You are making too much common sense, about a senseless situation, on a nonsensical Journey forum

[NoMoreTails]

I had nearly forgotten about the outstanding "I Stand A--croak--lone...uh..."
A very profound statement in regards to Perry's life it would seem.
The hip wouldn't have kept him from making appearances to promote TBF on the late shows, etc. I believe Cain said he could have sat on a stool or whatever. The voice was shot. I have no problem with him not going out on the road if he couldn't meet the standards he set for himself, but he shouldn't have strung the band and the fans along with the hip bs.

Why are you so sure it is BS? That comment about the stool is the most pathetic thing I have ever heard. Can you imagine going to a rock concert and having the lead singer up in front on a stool? Give me a break!!

You are contradicting yourself by saying that Cain said he could have sat on a stool, and then saying that it was all BS. Was the whole band lying?

I think the stool comment was in regards to a late show appearance, etc, rather than a tour.
I don't think so, if you'd kept up with the whole saga since 1997 you would have gathered that the band thinks its bullshit, though they have gone along with it to an extent to the media and fans.

The stool comment was originally said in regards to a tour after TBF. I remember hearing it back then and thinking how stupid that would be. I have kept up with the whole saga since 1997, and the only person I recall coming out to say the hip story was BS was Herbie. He has his own agenda against Perry. Recent comments from Cain and Smitty seem to indicate the hip story is true. I would be inclined to believe Smitty more than anyone else.

And BTW, I HAVE gotten over it, but the hatred (and I do not think that is too strong of a word) against Perry on these boards just drives me nuts. It forces me to respond. I think it drives a wedge too, between some fans and Arnel, which is unfortunate.

I was not the one who made the reference to getting over it, but I am glad you included that thought here. Its good to hear a hardcore Perry fan admit that some dislike Arnel (and Journey without Perry) only because he is not Perry, not based on his ability.

You may be right, but do you not see how your derogatory remarks (both here and on YouTube) might be perpetuating this? Maybe if you'd back off a little, fans of the classic lineup would become less defensive and begin to accept Arnel. JMHO.

You must have me confused with someone else, I have never posted on youtube.

If they are content with worshippiing a singer who's been washed up for 25 years its their loss, not mine.

[Ritchie]

It's crazy isn't it, just how different things would be today if Steve had somehow avoided that accident. Where do you think Journey would be today? That accident ruined everything.

Ruined everything?
Not for Augeri and Pineda.

[Monker]

I had nearly forgotten about the outstanding "I Stand A--croak--lone...uh..."
A very profound statement in regards to Perry's life it would seem.
The hip wouldn't have kept him from making appearances to promote TBF on the late shows, etc. I believe Cain said he could have sat on a stool or whatever. The voice was shot. I have no problem with him not going out on the road if he couldn't meet the standards he set for himself, but he shouldn't have strung the band and the fans along with the hip bs.

Why are you so sure it is BS? That comment about the stool is the most pathetic thing I have ever heard. Can you imagine going to a rock concert and having the lead singer up in front on a stool? Give me a break!!

You are contradicting yourself by saying that Cain said he could have sat on a stool, and then saying that it was all BS. Was the whole band lying?

I think the stool comment was in regards to a late show appearance, etc, rather than a tour.
I don't think so, if you'd kept up with the whole saga since 1997 you would have gathered that the band thinks its bullshit, though they have gone along with it to an extent to the media and fans.

The stool comment was originally said in regards to a tour after TBF. I remember hearing it back then and thinking how stupid that would be. I have kept up with the whole saga since 1997, and the only person I recall coming out to say the hip story was BS was Herbie. He has his own agenda against Perry. Recent comments from Cain and Smitty seem to indicate the hip story is true. I would be inclined to believe Smitty more than anyone else.

And BTW, I HAVE gotten over it, but the hatred (and I do not think that is too strong of a word) against Perry on these boards just drives me nuts. It forces me to respond. I think it drives a wedge too, between some fans and Arnel, which is unfortunate.

I was not the one who made the reference to getting over it, but I am glad you included that thought here. Its good to hear a hardcore Perry fan admit that some dislike Arnel (and Journey without Perry) only because he is not Perry, not based on his ability.

You may be right, but do you not see how your derogatory remarks (both here and on YouTube) might be perpetuating this? Maybe if you'd back off a little, fans of the classic lineup would become less defensive and begin to accept Arnel. JMHO.

BTW, I don't believe the stool comment was n reference to a tour. I believe it was Jonathan talking about Perry refusing to do any promotion for TBF. It was mentioned in some interview about doing talk shows...Jonathan said Perry refused and used his hip as an excuse. Jonathan's comment was then that he could have just sat on a stool for five minutes and it would have been enough.

Also, BTW, how was the band 'seated' when they did the acoustic set during the "Under the Radar" tour?

[yandtguy]

I had nearly forgotten about the outstanding "I Stand A--croak--lone...uh..."
A very profound statement in regards to Perry's life it would seem.
The hip wouldn't have kept him from making appearances to promote TBF on the late shows, etc. I believe Cain said he could have sat on a stool or whatever. The voice was shot. I have no problem with him not going out on the road if he couldn't meet the standards he set for himself, but he shouldn't have strung the band and the fans along with the hip bs.

Hah, that song actually had gotten more radio air time than anything Journey has done post Perry in my region!

The way I see it, nobody knows truly what went on and it's kind of pointless to speculate about it now. That was about 15 years ago. I, personally, would rather see Perry in Journey, but I'm also fine with both the band and Perry doing the things they want to do. The band is still touring and making new music (well, that might change) and Perry is enjoying his retirement. 'Nuff said.

Actually, "I Stand Alone" didn't chart on Billboard AC or the Hot 100. "All The Way" and "After All These Years" were both top 20 on the AC chart. The last charting single by Perry outside of Journey was "Missing You" from FTLOSM. The last charting single Perry sang was "Can't Tame The Lion" on the Billboard Mainstream Rock chart.

Greg

[annie89509]

Re: the "he could just sit on a stool" comment had been brandied about several times. That's why it has stucked in the minds with us hardcores. As previously mentioned, Jon first used it in lamenting how Journey missed out on late night TV promos. Later, Neal also threw that out (maybe sarcastically) in saying "he could just sing sitting on a stool."

It would seem that these comments had gotten back to SP, because he also came out saying...in response to why he didn't tour..."I wasn't about to be dragged out on stage like a donkey..that's not my style"...(some derogatory animal term like that...can't remember exactly).

Anyway, as someone said, it's all water under the bridge now. But, hey, this is what fans do .

[Saint John]

I have kept up with the whole saga since 1997, and the only person I recall coming out to say the hip story was BS was Herbie. He has his own agenda against Perry.

Hmm, can't imagine why the guy that assembled Journey, branded the band and was the guy that brought Perry into Journey would have an "agenda" against the dude that wrestled away day-to-day control from him, and intentionally or ignorantly ran the band into the ground, and then fired him when he tried to resurrect it! My guess is that Herbie's "agenda" is to shed some light on the truth. And I also bet that the legal team on retainer by Nostrildamus would jump at the chance to catch Herbie slandering the guy. But that's simply not the case when you tell the truth.

Fuck, if anything, Nostrildamus did Herbie a huge favor! When he put the band on the shelf in 1987, Herbie began managing Roxette and they scored four #1 hits in the U.S., two #2 hits and approximately 70 million in worldwide sales. Then there's Europe and Herbie's insistence on using Joey Tempest's buried keyboard riff from 1981 that later became known as The Final Countdown. While Journey was playing faggy songs like Happy To Give and I'll Be Alright Without You, The Final Coutdown went #1 in 25 countries. And Def Leppard and Bon Jovi each saw the music that they molded from the musical path that Journey forged, but abandoned at the time, produce Diamond albums. So I can certainly see why Herbie takes every opportunity to set the record straight. But that's not really an agenda. It's just the truth.

[AR]

I got a rock.

[Arianddu]

How about this FUCK you....that is pretty to the point...no??

That is a little forward.........
Buy me dinner first, then we'll see where the night goes.

\\



No dinner just drinks...

Oh will you two just go to bed and get it out of your systems already?

[Onestepper]

I have kept up with the whole saga since 1997, and the only person I recall coming out to say the hip story was BS was Herbie. He has his own agenda against Perry.

Hmm, can't imagine why the guy that assembled Journey, branded the band and was the guy that brought Perry into Journey would have an "agenda" against the dude that wrestled away day-to-day control from him, and intentionally or ignorantly ran the band into the ground, and then fired him when he tried to resurrect it! My guess is that Herbie's "agenda" is to shed some light on the truth. And I also bet that the legal team on retainer by Nostrildamus would jump at the chance to catch Herbie slandering the guy. But that's simply not the case when you tell the truth.

Fuck, if anything, Nostrildamus did Herbie a huge favor! When he put the band on the shelf in 1987, Herbie began managing Roxette and they scored four #1 hits in the U.S., two #2 hits and approximately 70 million in worldwide sales. Then there's Europe and Herbie's insistence on using Joey Tempest's buried keyboard riff from 1981 that later became known as The Final Countdown. While Journey was playing faggy songs like Happy To Give and I'll Be Alright Without You, The Final Coutdown went #1 in 25 countries. And Def Leppard and Bon Jovi each saw the music that they molded from the musical path that Journey forged, but abandoned at the time, produce Diamond albums. So I can certainly see why Herbie takes every opportunity to set the record straight. But that's not really an agenda. It's just the truth.

Indeed. "I never really felt part of the band....so I decided to destroy it..."

Why anyone would ever take Perry's word over Herbie's is beyond me. History has shown which one can be believed, and which one cannot.

[Gideon]

Oh will you two just go to bed and get it out of your systems already?

Why not join us and make it a threesome then?

[onmyjrny]

I have kept up with the whole saga since 1997, and the only person I recall coming out to say the hip story was BS was Herbie. He has his own agenda against Perry.

Hmm, can't imagine why the guy that assembled Journey, branded the band and was the guy that brought Perry into Journey would have an "agenda" against the dude that wrestled away day-to-day control from him, and intentionally or ignorantly ran the band into the ground, and then fired him when he tried to resurrect it! My guess is that Herbie's "agenda" is to shed some light on the truth. And I also bet that the legal team on retainer by Nostrildamus would jump at the chance to catch Herbie slandering the guy. But that's simply not the case when you tell the truth.

Fuck, if anything, Nostrildamus did Herbie a huge favor! When he put the band on the shelf in 1987, Herbie began managing Roxette and they scored four #1 hits in the U.S., two #2 hits and approximately 70 million in worldwide sales. Then there's Europe and Herbie's insistence on using Joey Tempest's buried keyboard riff from 1981 that later became known as The Final Countdown. While Journey was playing faggy songs like Happy To Give and I'll Be Alright Without You, The Final Coutdown went #1 in 25 countries. And Def Leppard and Bon Jovi each saw the music that they molded from the musical path that Journey forged, but abandoned at the time, produce Diamond albums. So I can certainly see why Herbie takes every opportunity to set the record straight. But that's not really an agenda. It's just the truth.

Indeed. "I never really felt part of the band....so I decided to destroy it..."

Why anyone would ever take Perry's word over Herbie's is beyond me. History has shown which one can be believed, and which one cannot.

The issue here was never whether to take the word of Herbie vs. Perry. The issue was Herbie vs. recent Smitty and Cain interviews. In fact, I have always wondered myself if Perry's problem was vocal rather than physical, and I posted this several weeks ago on a different thread.

I have no animosity towards Herbie. I don't think he was lying in his interview. But he was not present during the TBF recordings, and Cain and Smitty were. Also, I don't know how objective someone can be after they were fired from a band that they started, by someone they fought to bring into the band in the first place no less. Even if he did end up in a better situation, it would be pretty amazing to me if he could stay objective after that happened. That's just human nature.

JMHO.

[onmyjrny]

I had nearly forgotten about the outstanding "I Stand A--croak--lone...uh..."
A very profound statement in regards to Perry's life it would seem.
The hip wouldn't have kept him from making appearances to promote TBF on the late shows, etc. I believe Cain said he could have sat on a stool or whatever. The voice was shot. I have no problem with him not going out on the road if he couldn't meet the standards he set for himself, but he shouldn't have strung the band and the fans along with the hip bs.

Why are you so sure it is BS? That comment about the stool is the most pathetic thing I have ever heard. Can you imagine going to a rock concert and having the lead singer up in front on a stool? Give me a break!!

You are contradicting yourself by saying that Cain said he could have sat on a stool, and then saying that it was all BS. Was the whole band lying?

I think the stool comment was in regards to a late show appearance, etc, rather than a tour.
I don't think so, if you'd kept up with the whole saga since 1997 you would have gathered that the band thinks its bullshit, though they have gone along with it to an extent to the media and fans.

The stool comment was originally said in regards to a tour after TBF. I remember hearing it back then and thinking how stupid that would be. I have kept up with the whole saga since 1997, and the only person I recall coming out to say the hip story was BS was Herbie. He has his own agenda against Perry. Recent comments from Cain and Smitty seem to indicate the hip story is true. I would be inclined to believe Smitty more than anyone else.

And BTW, I HAVE gotten over it, but the hatred (and I do not think that is too strong of a word) against Perry on these boards just drives me nuts. It forces me to respond. I think it drives a wedge too, between some fans and Arnel, which is unfortunate.

I was not the one who made the reference to getting over it, but I am glad you included that thought here. Its good to hear a hardcore Perry fan admit that some dislike Arnel (and Journey without Perry) only because he is not Perry, not based on his ability.

You may be right, but do you not see how your derogatory remarks (both here and on YouTube) might be perpetuating this? Maybe if you'd back off a little, fans of the classic lineup would become less defensive and begin to accept Arnel. JMHO.

You are making too much common sense, about a senseless situation, on a nonsensical Journey forum

I am beginning to see that now! I guess I am a slow learner.

[donnaplease]

I have kept up with the whole saga since 1997, and the only person I recall coming out to say the hip story was BS was Herbie. He has his own agenda against Perry.

Hmm, can't imagine why the guy that assembled Journey, branded the band and was the guy that brought Perry into Journey would have an "agenda" against the dude that wrestled away day-to-day control from him, and intentionally or ignorantly ran the band into the ground, and then fired him when he tried to resurrect it! My guess is that Herbie's "agenda" is to shed some light on the truth. And I also bet that the legal team on retainer by Nostrildamus would jump at the chance to catch Herbie slandering the guy. But that's simply not the case when you tell the truth.

Fuck, if anything, Nostrildamus did Herbie a huge favor! When he put the band on the shelf in 1987, Herbie began managing Roxette and they scored four #1 hits in the U.S., two #2 hits and approximately 70 million in worldwide sales. Then there's Europe and Herbie's insistence on using Joey Tempest's buried keyboard riff from 1981 that later became known as The Final Countdown. While Journey was playing faggy songs like Happy To Give and I'll Be Alright Without You, The Final Coutdown went #1 in 25 countries. And Def Leppard and Bon Jovi each saw the music that they molded from the musical path that Journey forged, but abandoned at the time, produce Diamond albums. So I can certainly see why Herbie takes every opportunity to set the record straight. But that's not really an agenda. It's just the truth.

Guess I need to resurrect this post from you:

I just got done watching the After The Fall segment in Frontiers and Beyond. That said, I couldn't help but notice how happy Herbie was. The guys were jamming, Perry was awesome and the road crew was totally into it. Then I was quickly reminded of Herbie's "I wouldn't piss down Steve Perry's throat if his heart was on fire" comment. Where does that come from? Hamburger Herbie admitted that he was the only one NOT bound by the "gag" order. If that is so, what did Perry do that was so wrong that one would make such a publicly disparaging comment. At least tell us. Don't continue to make yourself look like a bitter jackoff because you were fired. Yeah, you did a good job managing Journey....but guess what dude, you had the benefit of timing, musicianship second to none, and chemistry perhaps unparalleled. And it WAS Rolie that suggested Cain be added in his absence if I remember correctly. Perry could VERY easily be as unprofessional as Herbie and lament on how Herbie overtoured the band and changed Perry's voice. But he hasn't...ever. He showed his versatility as a great artist and adapted to his "new" voice. They owe each other a great deal, that is a fact. And no one HAS to get along. It's just a shame that Herbie chooses to spew words of bitterness during the few moments that he's NOT eating.

You're kinda like that John Kerry guy... you seem to have been 'for' him before you turned 'against' him...

[Saint John]

I have kept up with the whole saga since 1997, and the only person I recall coming out to say the hip story was BS was Herbie. He has his own agenda against Perry.

Hmm, can't imagine why the guy that assembled Journey, branded the band and was the guy that brought Perry into Journey would have an "agenda" against the dude that wrestled away day-to-day control from him, and intentionally or ignorantly ran the band into the ground, and then fired him when he tried to resurrect it! My guess is that Herbie's "agenda" is to shed some light on the truth. And I also bet that the legal team on retainer by Nostrildamus would jump at the chance to catch Herbie slandering the guy. But that's simply not the case when you tell the truth.

Fuck, if anything, Nostrildamus did Herbie a huge favor! When he put the band on the shelf in 1987, Herbie began managing Roxette and they scored four #1 hits in the U.S., two #2 hits and approximately 70 million in worldwide sales. Then there's Europe and Herbie's insistence on using Joey Tempest's buried keyboard riff from 1981 that later became known as The Final Countdown. While Journey was playing faggy songs like Happy To Give and I'll Be Alright Without You, The Final Coutdown went #1 in 25 countries. And Def Leppard and Bon Jovi each saw the music that they molded from the musical path that Journey forged, but abandoned at the time, produce Diamond albums. So I can certainly see why Herbie takes every opportunity to set the record straight. But that's not really an agenda. It's just the truth.

Guess I need to resurrect this post from you:

I just got done watching the After The Fall segment in Frontiers and Beyond. That said, I couldn't help but notice how happy Herbie was. The guys were jamming, Perry was awesome and the road crew was totally into it. Then I was quickly reminded of Herbie's "I wouldn't piss down Steve Perry's throat if his heart was on fire" comment. Where does that come from? Hamburger Herbie admitted that he was the only one NOT bound by the "gag" order. If that is so, what did Perry do that was so wrong that one would make such a publicly disparaging comment. At least tell us. Don't continue to make yourself look like a bitter jackoff because you were fired. Yeah, you did a good job managing Journey....but guess what dude, you had the benefit of timing, musicianship second to none, and chemistry perhaps unparalleled. And it WAS Rolie that suggested Cain be added in his absence if I remember correctly. Perry could VERY easily be as unprofessional as Herbie and lament on how Herbie overtoured the band and changed Perry's voice. But he hasn't...ever. He showed his versatility as a great artist and adapted to his "new" voice. They owe each other a great deal, that is a fact. And no one HAS to get along. It's just a shame that Herbie chooses to spew words of bitterness during the few moments that he's NOT eating.

You're kinda like that John Kerry guy... you seem to have been 'for' him before you turned 'against' him...

I clearly mentioned the following in that post:

" ... what did Perry do that was so wrong that one would make such a publicly disparaging comment."

And now I know. He fired Herbie so he wouldn't be around when he abandoned ship after he blew a giant hole in the side of it. There was never to be, not for a second even, a TBF tour. The guy conveniently felt like being back in Journey when they fired up the lineup featuring Chalfant and Rolie, and they took him at his word about touring ... something they never should have done. Nostrildamus needed Herbie gone because he NEVER would have gone for that. Never. And that's why he wasn't around when that time came.

[KDOUBLEU]

I dont think Perry wanted a full blown tour I think he wanted to do a few dates with much time off inbetween to rest his voice. He knew he could never go out and tour like the old days but I dont think he wanted to quit the band completely.

[escapefan]

I am gonna throw my 2 cents in here on the hip replacement thing.

I was told a little of 2 year ago that I need a total joint replacement. To this day I have not had the surgery. I do the injections, NSAIDs and low dose pain meds to make the pain tolerable. Every day you hope modern medicine will come thru with an alternative to joint replacement surgery. There is a lot to research on your condition. Do I want minimally evasive or go ahead with the total replacement? The thought of having a joint removed and replaced is not an easy choice by any means. There are fair days and bad days with the condition and it has totally changed my life style. Standing for 5 minutes is difficult. Yet with all of this I am not ready for the surgery. It is a VERY personal thing and as my surgeon tells me I will know when I am ready to do the surgery. And yes it can come on that fast, but my guess is he had little signs and discomfort and just chose to ignore, as did I, thinking it would go away.

So give the man a break regarding the hip please. I understand the band's frustration with him not having the surgery immediately, but until you are in his shoes, you have no idea how daunting the thought of this kind of surgery is. There are so many risks for infection afterwards and recovery is extremely difficult. You stress over who will help me with recovery and will the people I need be there to help me with this. You have to be in the right mind set to do this type of surgery IMO.

I don't think Perry will every admit the challenges he has with his voice.

Yes he should have been up front before the record and told them I don't want a full blown tour, but maybe he thought he might be able to do it, and realized after recording there was no way he could even do a mini tour.

And just for the record, I believe Perry had just as much to do with the "fracturing" of the stone as anyone. They gave us so great music while they all could.

[donnaplease]

I clearly mentioned the following in that post:

" ... what did Perry do that was so wrong that one would make such a publicly disparaging comment."

And now I know. He fired Herbie so he wouldn't be around when he abandoned ship after he blew a giant hole in the side of it. There was never to be, not for a second even, a TBF tour. The guy conveniently felt like being back in Journey when they fired up the lineup featuring Chalfant and Rolie, and they took him at his word about touring ... something they never should have done. Nostrildamus needed Herbie gone because he NEVER would have gone for that. Never. And that's why he wasn't around when that time came.

And this revelation came to you how??? You and ol' Herb sit down for a hamburger and he clued you in? Dan, nothing has changed as far as the band's history from that post until today. Even if what you say is true... so what? SP made a decision, and the band went along with it. As the band's originator, NEAL has to take responsibility for that decision too. You continue to follow the band after ALL the terrible decisions Neal has made since then, why is what SP did so different? Neal defrauded you and thousands of other people by allowing SA to lip-synch through years of concerts, yet you continue to support him. For someone who's only "about the music" you sure are vocal about one person's perceived faults while giving others a pass. What's up with that???

[Gideon]

And this revelation came to you how??? You and ol' Herb sit down for a hamburger and he clued you in? Dan, nothing has changed as far as the band's history from that post until today. Even if what you say is true... so what? SP made a decision, and the band went along with it. As the band's originator, NEAL has to take responsibility for that decision too. You continue to follow the band after ALL the terrible decisions Neal has made since then, why is what SP did so different? Neal defrauded you and thousands of other people by allowing SA to lip-synch through years of concerts, yet you continue to support him. For someone who's only "about the music" you sure are vocal about one person's perceived faults while giving others a pass. What's up with that???

I can't speak for Dan, but I'm going to try.
The difference is that Neal's tit was in a wringer (and rightly so) for years about the Tapegate scandal. He endured attacks, blame, and insults the world over from just about everyone on this website. It was acknowledged by the fans and never forgotten.
Meanwhile, there are those among us who try very hard to gloss over any poor decision made by Perry by either denying it or trying to scatter the blame elsewhere like leaves blown in a storm.

No one's ever given Neal a pass for Tapegate. Dan goes out of his way to acknowledge it and considers it the band's darkest hour. Can you say the same for acknowledging Perry's fuckups?

And lastly, as far as "about the music" is concerned, these are criticisms of Perry and Neal as people, not musicians. Like me, Dan doesn't mind criticizing either one because his love for their music remains. Simple concept.

[donnaplease]

I can't speak for Dan, but I'm going to try.
The difference is that Neal's tit was in a wringer (and rightly so) for years about the Tapegate scandal. He endured attacks, blame, and insults the world over from just about everyone on this website. It was acknowledged by the fans and never forgotten.
Meanwhile, there are those among us who try very hard to gloss over any poor decision made by Perry by either denying it or trying to scatter the blame elsewhere like leaves blown in a storm.

No one's ever given Neal a pass for Tapegate. Dan goes out of his way to acknowledge it and considers it the band's darkest hour. Can you say the same for acknowledging Perry's fuckups?

And lastly, as far as "about the music" is concerned, these are criticisms of Perry and Neal as people, not musicians. Like me, Dan doesn't mind criticizing either one because his love for their music remains. Simple concept.

Your posts don't address the fact that just a few short years ago, Dan was a huge supporter of SP. After JSS was let go, he suddenly developed a bitterness toward him that does not make sense given his previous statements. Those that despised Neal and swore off the band because of his actions were ragged on because "after all, it's only about the music" and "just a business" when it came to how Neal et al treated SA and JSS. Yet SP's actions (true or perceived) don't seem to get that same treatment, even though he has acknowledged that he made mistakes in the way he handled things (something that Neal has failed to do regarding JSS and tapegate as far as I know). If it's all about the music as has been purported (which is certainly ok) then SP should be given the respect that he deserves.

Now, as far as Neal's tit being in a wringer about tapegate (cool visual, BTW! )... that's not entirely true here. Most folks here (that believed it was true) were willing to overlook his role in it because they were thrilled with the new direction the band was taking, and willing to allow SA to shoulder almost all the blame. Dean had a big part in that - his ability to convince people how great things were coupled with the fact that JSS was interacting with us here helped that cause, and Neal knew it and took advantage of it, IMO. It wasn't until the shit hit the fan with JSS fans that Neal became a target for his decisions regarding tapegate.

[Monker]

And this revelation came to you how??? You and ol' Herb sit down for a hamburger and he clued you in? Dan, nothing has changed as far as the band's history from that post until today. Even if what you say is true... so what? SP made a decision, and the band went along with it. As the band's originator, NEAL has to take responsibility for that decision too. You continue to follow the band after ALL the terrible decisions Neal has made since then, why is what SP did so different? Neal defrauded you and thousands of other people by allowing SA to lip-synch through years of concerts, yet you continue to support him. For someone who's only "about the music" you sure are vocal about one person's perceived faults while giving others a pass. What's up with that???

I can't speak for Dan, but I'm going to try.
The difference is that Neal's tit was in a wringer (and rightly so) for years about the Tapegate scandal. He endured attacks, blame, and insults the world over from just about everyone on this website. It was acknowledged by the fans and never forgotten.
Meanwhile, there are those among us who try very hard to gloss over any poor decision made by Perry by either denying it or trying to scatter the blame elsewhere like leaves blown in a storm.

No one's ever given Neal a pass for Tapegate. Dan goes out of his way to acknowledge it and considers it the band's darkest hour. Can you say the same for acknowledging Perry's fuckups?

And lastly, as far as "about the music" is concerned, these are criticisms of Perry and Neal as people, not musicians. Like me, Dan doesn't mind criticizing either one because his love for their music remains. Simple concept.

WTF? Nobody ever gave Neal a pass for TG?

That is absolute BULLSHIT. Almost EVERYBODY on here put the entire situation on Augeri. I constantly argued that if it were true then it was the BANDS fault as a whole...not ONE person. But, people here consistently refused that and continued throwing all kinds of crap on Augeri. Nobody here wanted to blame the band as a whole...

...until AFTER JSS was canned for no obvious reason. THEN people starting posting their apologies to Augeri because they saw how much assholish the entire band really was.

But, even then, NOBODY put any blame on Neal Schon or the rest of the band. He DID get a pass for TG. Who here called for NEAL to resign or be fired? NOBODY DID.

[Monker]

Now, as far as Neal's tit being in a wringer about tapegate (cool visual, BTW! )... that's not entirely true here. Most folks here (that believed it was true) were willing to overlook his role in it because they were thrilled with the new direction the band was taking, and willing to allow SA to shoulder almost all the blame. Dean had a big part in that - his ability to convince people how great things were coupled with the fact that JSS was interacting with us here helped that cause, and Neal knew it and took advantage of it, IMO. It wasn't until the shit hit the fan with JSS fans that Neal became a target for his decisions regarding tapegate.

That is more based on reality. Except for the bit about Neal becoming a target for TG. When did that happen? Who here wanted Neal to resign or be fired? Who wanted NEAL's head delivered to this forum on a platter? It went from love for JSS to love for Arnel in a matter of months and nobody was looking back to the Augeri years to critique Neal.

[donnaplease]

Now, as far as Neal's tit being in a wringer about tapegate (cool visual, BTW! )... that's not entirely true here. Most folks here (that believed it was true) were willing to overlook his role in it because they were thrilled with the new direction the band was taking, and willing to allow SA to shoulder almost all the blame. Dean had a big part in that - his ability to convince people how great things were coupled with the fact that JSS was interacting with us here helped that cause, and Neal knew it and took advantage of it, IMO. It wasn't until the shit hit the fan with JSS fans that Neal became a target for his decisions regarding tapegate.

That is more based on reality. Except for the bit about Neal becoming a target for TG. When did that happen? Who here wanted Neal to resign or be fired? Who wanted NEAL's head delivered to this forum on a platter? It went from love for JSS to love for Arnel in a matter of months and nobody was looking back to the Augeri years to critique Neal.

Naw, Neal took a good share of shit for his behaviors... It was more along the lines of photoshops and wisecracks about his poor social skills and lack of common sense, but he had many barbs thrown his way about tapegate. I think it was a little disingenuous for many of the people who backtracked on SA, calling him a victim after crucifying him before JSS got canned, but I wasn't really an SA fan so it didn't affect me so personally either way. For the record, I have also always thought that the entire band and mgmt is to blame for that, although SA was the one ultimately holding the mic.

No one was ever going to call for Neal to resign or be fired, this isn't the political thread. But LOTS of people wanted Neal's head on a platter. You're right, there was an extraordinary amount of amnesia once Arnel was named, which is my point in the first place. It cracks me up how history changes depending on the players involved.

[Gideon]

Those that despised Neal and swore off the band because of his actions were ragged on because "after all, it's only about the music" and "just a business" when it came to how Neal et al treated SA and JSS. Yet SP's actions (true or perceived) don't seem to get that same treatment, even though he has acknowledged that he made mistakes in the way he handled things (something that Neal has failed to do regarding JSS and tapegate as far as I know). If it's all about the music as has been purported (which is certainly ok) then SP should be given the respect that he deserves.

Dan does give the respect Perry deserves.... as an artist. That's what Dan's mantra of "all about the music" means: He doesn't hold Perry in high regards as a person, but has gone on record numerous times that Perry's the best singer he's ever heard and would kill to see them reunited. Or are you wanting him to respect Perry as a person?

[conversationpc]

It went from love for JSS to love for Arnel in a matter of months and nobody was looking back to the Augeri years to critique Neal.

Are you here in the same forum that I am???