JC (Friga) Saint or Sinner - take no prisoners?

[Matthew]

Matty, I HAVE seen a smock that looks like that before. I told you

So what's with all this chat about Perry's 'never before seen' tail coat?

Fucking smartass. U just can't agree to disagree now can u? & Dave called me a serial arguer????

And he was right. Now...you can have the last word. How about that? I've heard that's the only way to make sure you don't behave like a pain the arse in future.

[Matthew]

It's that agree to disagree thing. That usually ends arguments well.

I think Matty & I should end on this note. To me, it's a smock. To him, it's a coat. To me, Friga is an asshole. To him, he's a God. We'll never agree.

There's nothing wrong with differing opinions, that's actually a great thing. Now both of you kiss and make up.

Matty will find something else to argue about. U know it.

& I gave up kissing frogs a long time ago.

Ah..and let's end with some violins...or maybe even a ballad?...for the put upon and disillusioned of this world.

[Matthew]

NO Dave thought they were both coats. He was CLEAR on that point. He didn't think one was a coat & one was a smock. So, to him, they were both the same type of garment. To me, they're smocks. To him, they're coats. To u, one is a smock, one is a coat. We will have to agree to disagree here or this topic will still going this time next year.

Just before you get in your last word, Susie - I wanted to quickly point out that Dave did in fact call the pink smock "a vest with pockets".

Okay...it's 4.00 in the morning here in the UK...and I'm arguing about smocks. Maybe I really have lost it?

[RedWingFan]

Makes one ponder where this thread will actually end up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I love you Andrew This place is the best! Put that Oct show on DVD though

Are you not going to make the show?

Hell no Rick, Andrew had to go and schedule it the same day my cousin's getting married in North Carolina. He's an inconsiderate bastard!! Sure woulda been nice to meet some of you there, but nooooo..

[RedWingFan]

Actually if I remember correctly. Matty (as you call him) and I have had an argument or 2 about politics. I'm a realist JR. He's handing you your own ass with each post.

Thanks Raiderfan. And you're right - we have had a few storming arguments in the past. In fact, I think my very first argument on MR was with you. I think you were saying that we needed to nuke the Palestinians or something...

I don't know about nuking them. The way I remember it you were bemoaning the loss of innocent civilian Palestinian lives while the Palestinians were intentionally sending suicide bombers into Israeli pizza parlors full of school kids. But lets not get back into that. Lets keep laughing at JR.

[RedWingFan]

I see. So Jonathan Cain is not wearing a coat. He he wearing A SMOCK THAT HAS NEVER BEEN SEEN BEFORE. And THAT'S why we can't recognise it as a smock....even though it does look like a smock...so it is like a smock we've seen before, after all.

Matty, I HAVE seen a smock that looks like that before. I told u this pages ago. My hairdresser in the late 80s wore one. Unfortunately, I don't have a picture to prove it. Back then, I didn't think that I would need a picture of his smock 20 years on to prove a point to u.

Yeah, I remember reading that post. On that trip to the hairdresser, she had seen the Loch Ness Monster washed ashore on a beach. Then saw Bigfoot get abducted by a UFO. But she doesn't have pictures of those either

[ArnelRox]

[ArnelRox]

[Wheels Of Fyre]

This thread is beyond description!

[Matthew]

This thread is beyond description!

So Fyre...22 pages later...have I been able to change your mind in the slightest? Or are you still blaming Jonathan Cain for all the world's problems?

[Wheels Of Fyre]

This thread is beyond description!

So Fyre...22 pages later...have I been able to change your mind in the slightest? Or are you still blaming Jonathan Cain for all the world's problems?

Don't be so dramatic! I didn't start this thread as a blame JC fest. As entertaining as the exchange is between you and Susie-Q I'd REALLY like to get back to this:

I already know what most MR members think. They've turned against the third longest serving member of this band who co-wrote the majority of our all-time favourite songs in favour of a singer who sang those songs for a mere eight months.

You've equated longevity with value! Part of the reason people are upset but maybe haven't fully expressed is that given JC's longevity he should've known better! It appears that he's permitted ego to get in the way of art.

What you've side-stepped is the FACT that SP's singing is what brought greatness to JC's songs. Since SP's retirement JC's become a bigger control freak than SP ever was. The proof is in his fingerprints being all over Arrival, Red 13, and Generations which the vast majority of fans posting on the internet say are mediocre efforts. I could go into a long analysis as to why they're medicore but I'll simply say two words: Jon Cain. More specifically the songs were written and produced in such ways that SA had nothing to sing. If you're a singer then you'll know what I'm talking about. If you're not then I'll explain it this way: the singer needs to be able to sing the MELODY and NOT just the LYRICS. Even The Voice would've sounded like crap with those arrangements had he been forced to sing them as such. Thank goodness for his tenacity in his craft that he was able to curb JC's ego and SING the songs that they wrote together.

JC had a "Yes Man" in SA and easily stifled him. JSS was going to be more demanding. I think this was going to be too much for JC to stomach. Had JSS brought credibility back to JOURNEY then JC (along with NS and SA) would've been seen as a big failure. That would be unbearable to such mighty egos.

Moreover, what had JC done OUTSIDE of JOURNEY/SP? How many hit songs did he write that were sung by other artists? How great is he really. How great do you want us to believe he is?
___

I saw a guy in the grocery store yesterday wearing a Generations T-shirt. Couldn't believe my eyes. He said he was a casual fan. I asked him if he knew about the firing of JSS and he said that that's what he'd heard. He then said, "I don't know why they don't just get the original guy back."

"the original guy"

See there. Yet another perfect example of the ignorant casual fans who don't even know who SP is. They know his VOICE. And as I said earlier it's SP's voice that's the identity of JOURNEY - not JC's songs.

It's so clear that SA was brought in to fool people. To the hardcore fans he's NOT at all SP but to the casual fans he's "close enough". JSS would've brought a new identity to JOURNEY but it wouldn't have been the one that the casual fans would've embraced. JC and NS just didn't see enough $$$ coming from a JSS JOURNEY. I suppose they've got to make a living. Even if it means filing artistic bankruptcy and bringing in a SP impersonator

[ArnelRox]

[Matthew]

This thread is beyond description!

So Fyre...22 pages later...have I been able to change your mind in the slightest? Or are you still blaming Jonathan Cain for all the world's problems?

Don't be so dramatic! I didn't start this thread as a blame JC fest. As entertaining as the exchange is between you and Susie-Q I'd REALLY like to get back to this:

I already know what most MR members think. They've turned against the third longest serving member of this band who co-wrote the majority of our all-time favourite songs in favour of a singer who sang those songs for a mere eight months.

You've equated longevity with value! Part of the reason people are upset but maybe haven't fully expressed is that given JC's longevity he should've known better! It appears that he's permitted ego to get in the way of art.

What you've side-stepped is the FACT that SP's singing is what brought greatness to JC's songs. Since SP's retirement JC's become a bigger control freak than SP ever was. The proof is in his fingerprints being all over Arrival, Red 13, and Generations which the vast majority of fans posting on the internet say are mediocre efforts. I could go into a long analysis as to why they're medicore but I'll simply say two words: Jon Cain. More specifically the songs were written and produced in such ways that SA had nothing to sing. If you're a singer then you'll know what I'm talking about. If you're not then I'll explain it this way: the singer needs to be able to sing the MELODY and NOT just the LYRICS. Even The Voice would've sounded like crap with those arrangements had he been forced to sing them as such. Thank goodness for his tenacity in his craft that he was able to curb JC's ego and SING the songs that they wrote together.

JC had a "Yes Man" in SA and easily stifled him. JSS was going to be more demanding. I think this was going to be too much for JC to stomach. Had JSS brought credibility back to JOURNEY then JC (along with NS and SA) would've been seen as a big failure. That would be unbearable to such mighty egos.

Moreover, what had JC done OUTSIDE of JOURNEY/SP? How many hit songs did he write that were sung by other artists? How great is he really. How great do you want us to believe he is?
___

I saw a guy in the grocery store yesterday wearing a Generations T-shirt. Couldn't believe my eyes. He said he was a casual fan. I asked him if he knew about the firing of JSS and he said that that's what he'd heard. He then said, "I don't know why they don't just get the original guy back."

"the original guy"

See there. Yet another perfect example of the ignorant casual fans who don't even know who SP is. They know his VOICE. And as I said earlier it's SP's voice that's the identity of JOURNEY - not JC's songs.

It's so clear that SA was brought in to fool people. To the hardcore fans he's NOT at all SP but to the casual fans he's "close enough". JSS would've brought a new identity to JOURNEY but it wouldn't have been the one that the casual fans would've embraced. JC and NS just didn't see enough $$$ coming from a JSS JOURNEY. I suppose they've got to make a living. Even if it means filing artistic bankruptcy and bringing in a SP impersonator

I guess the answer to my question is "no" then?

[Wheels Of Fyre]

This thread is beyond description!

So Fyre...22 pages later...have I been able to change your mind in the slightest? Or are you still blaming Jonathan Cain for all the world's problems?

Don't be so dramatic! I didn't start this thread as a blame JC fest. As entertaining as the exchange is between you and Susie-Q I'd REALLY like to get back to this:

I already know what most MR members think. They've turned against the third longest serving member of this band who co-wrote the majority of our all-time favourite songs in favour of a singer who sang those songs for a mere eight months.

You've equated longevity with value! Part of the reason people are upset but maybe haven't fully expressed is that given JC's longevity he should've known better! It appears that he's permitted ego to get in the way of art.

What you've side-stepped is the FACT that SP's singing is what brought greatness to JC's songs. Since SP's retirement JC's become a bigger control freak than SP ever was. The proof is in his fingerprints being all over Arrival, Red 13, and Generations which the vast majority of fans posting on the internet say are mediocre efforts. I could go into a long analysis as to why they're medicore but I'll simply say two words: Jon Cain. More specifically the songs were written and produced in such ways that SA had nothing to sing. If you're a singer then you'll know what I'm talking about. If you're not then I'll explain it this way: the singer needs to be able to sing the MELODY and NOT just the LYRICS. Even The Voice would've sounded like crap with those arrangements had he been forced to sing them as such. Thank goodness for his tenacity in his craft that he was able to curb JC's ego and SING the songs that they wrote together.

JC had a "Yes Man" in SA and easily stifled him. JSS was going to be more demanding. I think this was going to be too much for JC to stomach. Had JSS brought credibility back to JOURNEY then JC (along with NS and SA) would've been seen as a big failure. That would be unbearable to such mighty egos.

Moreover, what had JC done OUTSIDE of JOURNEY/SP? How many hit songs did he write that were sung by other artists? How great is he really. How great do you want us to believe he is?
___

I saw a guy in the grocery store yesterday wearing a Generations T-shirt. Couldn't believe my eyes. He said he was a casual fan. I asked him if he knew about the firing of JSS and he said that that's what he'd heard. He then said, "I don't know why they don't just get the original guy back."

"the original guy"

See there. Yet another perfect example of the ignorant casual fans who don't even know who SP is. They know his VOICE. And as I said earlier it's SP's voice that's the identity of JOURNEY - not JC's songs.

It's so clear that SA was brought in to fool people. To the hardcore fans he's NOT at all SP but to the casual fans he's "close enough". JSS would've brought a new identity to JOURNEY but it wouldn't have been the one that the casual fans would've embraced. JC and NS just didn't see enough $$$ coming from a JSS JOURNEY. I suppose they've got to make a living. Even if it means filing artistic bankruptcy and bringing in a SP impersonator

I guess the answer to my question is "no" then?

If you want to boil it down to a word - yes!

I mean no...Uh...not...?

[Matthew]

Hey Fyre - I'm at work at the moment but I just want to quickly say that you've made a number of ridiculous points and I look forward to rowing with you later on.

[ArnelRox]

[Matthew]

Hey Fyre - I'm at work at the moment but I just want to quickly say that you've made a number of ridiculous points and I look forward to rowing with you later on.

Great. He LIVES to argue on this forum

Tell it to the mirror....

[Wheels Of Fyre]

JC had a "Yes Man" in SA and easily stifled him. JSS was going to be more demanding. I think this was going to be too much for JC to stomach. Had JSS brought credibility back to JOURNEY then JC (along with NS and SA) would've been seen as a big failure. That would be unbearable to such mighty egos.

That was really all u needed to say. It's all anyone needs to say. No matter which way u look at this, that's the truth of the matter. How anyone can see otherwise is beyond me.

I know but I have a reputation of long, rambling, nonsensical posts that I have to uphold.

[Wheels Of Fyre]

Hey Fyre - I'm at work at the moment but I just want to quickly say that you've made a number of ridiculous points and I look forward to rowing with you later on.

Merrily, merrily, merrily....

[ArnelRox]

[Wheels Of Fyre]

Hey Fyre - I'm at work at the moment but I just want to quickly say that you've made a number of ridiculous points and I look forward to rowing with you later on.

Great. He LIVES to argue on this forum

Tell it to the mirror....

Susie-Q can't look directly into a mirror!

Get it - Medusa reference...? I crack myself up!

You know I WUV YOU Susie!

[Wheels Of Fyre]

JC had a "Yes Man" in SA and easily stifled him. JSS was going to be more demanding. I think this was going to be too much for JC to stomach. Had JSS brought credibility back to JOURNEY then JC (along with NS and SA) would've been seen as a big failure. That would be unbearable to such mighty egos.

That was really all u needed to say. It's all anyone needs to say. No matter which way u look at this, that's the truth of the matter. How anyone can see otherwise is beyond me.

I know but I have a reputation of long, rambling, nonsensical posts that I have to uphold.

I love a man who can laugh at himself

I don't want to be a party pooper.

[ArnelRox]

[Wheels Of Fyre]

Susie-Q can't look directly into a mirror!

Get it - Medusa reference...? I crack myself up!

You know I WUV YOU Susie!

But I don't like men who laugh at me...

(But actually it's b/c I'm a vampire. No reflection!)

That opens up a whole other can...

[ArnelRox]

[Matthew]

Don't be so dramatic! I didn't start this thread as a blame JC fest. As entertaining as the exchange is between you and Susie-Q I'd REALLY like to get back to this:

I already know what most MR members think. They've turned against the third longest serving member of this band who co-wrote the majority of our all-time favourite songs in favour of a singer who sang those songs for a mere eight months.

Look Fyre...we're at the fag-end of this thread now so I'm reluctant to go back to the beginning and repeat the same answers which made you run and hide like a shy little girl at a birthday party the first time around. So I'll try to concentrate on the newish points...

Okay - first you write this:

I didn't start this thread as a blame JC fest.

And then you follow it up with this:

I could go into a long analysis as to why Arrival, Red 13, and Generations are mediocre but I'll simply say two words: Jon Cain.

It's funny - in the last day alone I've read - both here and on another forum - that:

1) Jonathan Cain was responsible for the break up of the band in 1987. Yes, it was he and not Perry who delivered the "final blow".

2) Jonathan Cain is a "sociopath".

3) And now - on top of that - Jonathan Cain is entirely responsible for the mediocrity of Journey's post-Perry recording career.

Come on Fyre. You must admit this has all got totally out of hand...

More specifically the songs were written and produced in such ways that SA had nothing to sing. If you're a singer then you'll know what I'm talking about. If you're not then I'll explain it this way: the singer needs to be able to sing the MELODY and NOT just the LYRICS. Even The Voice would've sounded like crap with those arrangements had he been forced to sing them as such. Thank goodness for his tenacity in his craft that he was able to curb JC's ego and SING the songs that they wrote together.

Let me get this straight: Augeri was "forced" by Cain to sound like crap but due to Augeri's "tenacity" he fought back and sang those songs even though he had nothing to sing...

It's so clear that SA was brought in to fool people.

I agree...

What you've side-stepped is the FACT that SP's singing is what brought greatness to JC's songs.

No argument from me about this. But...listen to Perry's solo stuff and there's a missing dimension. Cain brought a touch of greatness to Perry too. As did Schon.

It appears that he's permitted ego to get in the way of art.

And he permitted this back in 1998 and the majority of die-hard, online fans such as yourself fully supported him in this.

JC had a "Yes Man" in SA and easily stifled him.

Fyre - can you elaborate on this point about 'stifling'? Are you sure it wasn't simply that Augeri wasn't nearly as talented as Perry and THAT'S why we saw a drop in quality?

JSS was going to be more demanding. I think this was going to be too much for JC to stomach. Had JSS brought credibility back to JOURNEY then JC (along with NS and SA) would've been seen as a big failure. That would be unbearable to such mighty egos.

I bet Cain absolutely yearns to have Perry back as his writing partner. And by all accounts Perry's ego is far more "mighty" than JSS's ever will be.

Moreover, what had JC done OUTSIDE of JOURNEY/SP? How many hit songs did he write that were sung by other artists? How great is he really. How great do you want us to believe he is?

As I've said...I think he was pure greatness in Journey between '81 and '96. For this we owe him at least some gratitude and respect - despite his crimes against humanity over the last decade.

[Wheels Of Fyre]

Don't be so dramatic! I didn't start this thread as a blame JC fest. As entertaining as the exchange is between you and Susie-Q I'd REALLY like to get back to this:

I already know what most MR members think. They've turned against the third longest serving member of this band who co-wrote the majority of our all-time favourite songs in favour of a singer who sang those songs for a mere eight months.

Look Fyre...we're at the fag-end of this thread now so I'm reluctant to go back to the beginning and repeat the same answers which made you run and hide like a shy little girl at a birthday party the first time around. So I'll try to concentrate on the newish points...

By the end of my response I hope you’ll respond to the question: how great IS JC or how great do you want us to BELIEVE he is?

Okay - first you write this:

I didn't start this thread as a blame JC fest.

And then you follow it up with this:

I could go into a long analysis as to why Arrival, Red 13, and Generations are mediocre but I'll simply say two words: Jon Cain.

It's funny - in the last day alone I've read - both here and on another forum - that:

1) Jonathan Cain was responsible for the break up of the band in 1987. Yes, it was he and not Perry who delivered the "final blow".

2) Jonathan Cain is a "sociopath".

3) And now - on top of that - Jonathan Cain is entirely responsible for the mediocrity of Journey's post-Perry recording career.

Come on Fyre. You must admit this has all got totally out of hand...

I didn’t contradict myself. I didn’t start this as a blame fest. It merely went that direction.

1) JC is indeed partly responsible. I would agree that he wasn’t the one who laid the final blow.
2) From what evidence/opinions that can be gathered (particularly from the infamous HH interview) this may be a reasonable “diagnosis”. Definition: a person, as a psychopathic personality, whose behavior is antisocial and who lacks a sense of moral responsibility or social conscience.
Let’s consider the firing of JSS for a moment. From accounts JSS wasn’t told IN PERSON. I’m an objective, level-headed person and I can’t imagine ANY good reason why not to tell him in person other than a pathological condition. This strikes more deeply as true considering that JSS wasn’t even in the country. Let’s not tell him in person. It would be best from a distance. How far a distance? Oh, I don’t know…how about as far as Europe! Yeah! HOW JSS was fired is more indicative of pathology than not. Please don’t give me the line, “It’s their band and they can hire and fire when and how they like.” That doesn’t fly UNLESS you’re a sociopath. Sociopath is NOT the “bad” word that you’re trying to present it as. Pathology isn’t limited to murderers, rapists, and burglars. It applies whenever there’s a history of backstabbing, too. JSS’ stabbing is the most recent in the long history of JOURNEY stabbings!
Furthermore (and you know I could go on and on) I’m personally disappointed in JC. I tried several times to contact him regarding my Dream JOURNEY Project and ideas. He never responded. What? Am I delusional? Should I have EXPECTED him to respond? No – I’m not delusional and Yes – he shoulda/coulda responded. All he had to say was,

“Hey, thanks for being the great fan that you are and exploring/promoting ideas that you think are JOURNEYesque. We appreciate your passion, artistry, and support.

Don’t stop believin’!

JC.

But no. Nothing. In contrast I once corresponded with May Pang (John Lennon’s infamous girlfriend). I never thought she’d respond and certainly didn’t expect her to considering the mundane nature of my inquiry. To my surprise she did respond and very gracious to the extent of writing back a few more times. I was blown away by here candor and warmth. As a celebrity in her own right she showed more grace than JC ever has in spite of the fact that he writes songs about grace at every turn. Maybe he ought to do some soul searching (if he’s got one) and try to figure out what being in a “State Of Grace” really means! Heck, even JSS took a moment or two to respond to a couple of my posts as well as PM’s! THAT is GRACE.

3) The overall tones and production values of the last 3 albums have more of JC’s fingerprints so YES I would say that he’s responsible for their mediocre quality. If he’s so talented then why hasn’t anything from those efforts been nominated for a grammy like WYLAW (which you constantly reference)? It’s because SP wasn’t singing and co-writing any of his songs – that’s why. So again, how great is JC as opposed to how great you think he is?

More specifically the songs were written and produced in such ways that SA had nothing to sing. If you're a singer then you'll know what I'm talking about. If you're not then I'll explain it this way: the singer needs to be able to sing the MELODY and NOT just the LYRICS. Even The Voice would've sounded like crap with those arrangements had he been forced to sing them as such. Thank goodness for his tenacity in his craft that he was able to curb JC's ego and SING the songs that they wrote together.

Let me get this straight: Augeri was "forced" by Cain to sound like crap but due to Augeri's "tenacity" he fought back and sang those songs even though he had nothing to sing...

That’s not at all what I said and you know it. JC controlled HIS songs just like SP did on ROR. That’s what I’m saying. Smitty and RV were fired during ROR because they didn’t conform to what SP wanted. JC basically imposed his creative hand in the same manner that SP did but without the firing of anybody.

It's so clear that SA was brought in to fool people.

I agree...

Good! Then you haven’t lost it as much as I thought you had!

What you've side-stepped is the FACT that SP's singing is what brought greatness to JC's songs.

No argument from me about this. But...listen to Perry's solo stuff and there's a missing dimension. Cain brought a touch of greatness to Perry too. As did Schon.

I don’t hear anything missing on Street Talk. FTLOSM is a groaner for sure (everyone’s entitled) however GH+5 which includes tracks from his unreleased Against The Wall are special.

I would agree that it’s always been a team effort however SP was in my estimation the guy responsible for their trophies.

It appears that he's permitted ego to get in the way of art.

And he permitted this back in 1998 and the majority of die-hard, online fans such as yourself fully supported him in this.

As an artist I would never and have never supported ego over art.

JC had a "Yes Man" in SA and easily stifled him.

Fyre - can you elaborate on this point about 'stifling'? Are you sure it wasn't simply that Augeri wasn't nearly as talented as Perry and THAT'S why we saw a drop in quality?

Stifling. Just as SP stifled everyone during ROR – but minus the quality result.

JSS was going to be more demanding. I think this was going to be too much for JC to stomach. Had JSS brought credibility back to JOURNEY then JC (along with NS and SA) would've been seen as a big failure. That would be unbearable to such mighty egos.

I bet Cain absolutely yearns to have Perry back as his writing partner. And by all accounts Perry's ego is far more "mighty" than JSS's ever will be.

Be careful! You’re starting to agree with me!

Moreover, what had JC done OUTSIDE of JOURNEY/SP? How many hit songs did he write that were sung by other artists? How great is he really. How great do you want us to believe he is?

As I've said...I think he was pure greatness in Journey between '81 and '96. For this we owe him at least some gratitude and respect - despite his crimes against humanity over the last decade.

I meant to address this before. What did he do that was so great between ’87 and ’96? It seems to me that if you want to say that he was great the more accurate claim would be that he was great between ’81-’86. What did he write/produce after ROR (’86) that was so great? Nothing. He wasn’t great again until ’96 when he rejoined forces with SP.

Considering all of this the question remains: how great IS JC or how great do you want us to BELIEVE he is?

More importantly, where is your new AV with the sofa shot...?!

[conversationpc]

Come on guys...This thread can go AT LEAST 25 pages.

[Red13JoePa]

Matt is quite the popular fellow on a few Journey forums these days. Everybody's lining up rolling their sleeves up.

[Matthew]

By the end of my response I hope you’ll respond to the question: how great IS JC or how great do you want us to BELIEVE he is?

Dave - I owe you another royalty....

1) JC is indeed partly responsible. I would agree that he wasn’t the one who laid the final blow.

From everything I've read it seems that Jonathan Cain was the last person who wanted Journey to break-up in '87....

2) From what evidence/opinions that can be gathered (particularly from the infamous HH interview) this may be a reasonable “diagnosis”. Definition: a person, as a psychopathic personality, whose behavior is antisocial and who lacks a sense of moral responsibility or social conscience.

And here you manage to upgrade Jonathan Cain to "psychopath" status. Well, it's a change from "gay ass" I suppose....

Let’s consider the firing of JSS for a moment. From accounts JSS wasn’t told IN PERSON. I’m an objective, level-headed person and I can’t imagine ANY good reason why not to tell him in person other than a pathological condition.

It's also known simply as "cowardice". Or alternatively "Neal Schon's responsibility this time". Whichever definition you prefer....

Furthermore (and you know I could go on and on) I’m personally disappointed in JC. I tried several times to contact him regarding my Dream JOURNEY Project and ideas. He never responded.

And HERE we finally get to the truth. Just like Strangegrey on the other forum you have an agenda that comes from being belittled or ignored at some point along the line. This has NOTHING to do with an objective assessment of the band's affairs and everything to do with trying to settle some grubby little grudge.

Just What? Am I delusional? Should I have EXPECTED him to respond?

Who knows whether the guy even saw the damn letter?

I don’t hear anything missing on Street Talk.

Really? I personally think it isn't nearly as good as Escape, Frontiers or ROR. It's still a great record though...

As an artist I would never and have never supported ego over art.

I seem to remember that you were a staunch defender of the Augeri line-up, Fyre.

I meant to address this before. What did he do that was so great between ’87 and ’96? It seems to me that if you want to say that he was great the more accurate claim would be that he was great between ’81-’86. What did he write/produce after ROR (’86) that was so great? Nothing. He wasn’t great again until ’96 when he rejoined forces with SP.

I stand corrected...

Considering all of this the question remains: how great IS JC or how great do you want us to BELIEVE he is?

I repeat....as part of the legendary trio...Cain was indeed great. I can't believe I'm being asked this question (again) on a JOURNEY board? Listen to the classic albums from the 80s again and tell me I'm wrong. Are you even a fan of this band?

More importantly, where is your new AV with the sofa shot...?!

Well, I recently had a most righteous shot of Cain from '86 as my avatar. Does that count?