JC (Friga) Saint or Sinner - take no prisoners?

[RedWingFan]

Wait, scratch that...Perry's IS a pube hair different. He cares enough about the fans to only rape them from behind the protection of re-packaged reissues and baked masters from crappy live recordings.

Man, I can't believe I missed the news stories of Perry taking people to record stores to buy the remasters at gunpoint!

[mistiejourney]

Wait, scratch that...Perry's IS a pube hair different. He cares enough about the fans to only rape them from behind the protection of re-packaged reissues and baked masters from crappy live recordings.

Man, I can't believe I missed the news stories of Perry taking people to record stores to buy the remasters at gunpoint!

I loved every minute of it!

[mistiejourney]

But I am tired. Letting JSS go was the last gasp of what is now a tribute band. So...I can say that I have good music and good memories, but the buck stops here.

I post here because it's nice to be able to commiserate with other Journey fans who feel like I do. And, to remember the good times. I was floored by the JSS situation. I was able to accept JSS because he (1) is absolutely fantastic and (2) SA was really unable to sing. God forbid we give a friend/partner time to heal or work our schedule around him, eh?

Well, our "friend and partner" was involved in a scam to defraud the fans - but let's not go there.

I'm not "through" with Journey, I'm just not going to follow whatever dirty dozen lineup they choose to present. Journey as they were (with SP, SA and JSS) will always be a part of me.

My pocketbook is no longer attached by an umbilical cord to their tour schedule.

JSS will always be a part of you? The guy sang the Dirty Dozen for eight months...plus a couple of album tracks from the late 1970s...and one new song. Yes, I know there was a lot of potential but let's not lose perspective.

If you could accept Augeri and JSS singing the old chestnuts...then why not accept the new guy? And surely it all depends on who the next guy is too? Maybe you'll like him?

I'll be at the next Journey show anyway whether I like him or not, though. I'm a fan so I've lost all power of choice in the matter....

LOL - JSS will be a "part" of my life because I was introduced to him through Journey. The guy was a breath of fresh air who happened to be a master showman. I like his voice - and so now I'm a fan of his. Yes, that is how powerful that one concert last August was. The new guy may be utterly fantastic!!! I'm not interested in seeing yet another singer front this band. I've heard the dirty dozen by Steve Perry (Five times, if you count the solo concerts), Steve Augeri (at least twelve times) and JSS (once).

I have no interest. That's all. It's like going through the motions all over again. At least it will be if they go out any more. I say they retire on their royalties and just stop before they become a joke.

Now Jeremy, who I had never heard before until I came here, has a stunning voice. So why he would want to "sing like Perry" instead of making new music is beyond my comprehension. I guess he is still excited about Journey. More power to him. And God help him when his voice gives out and they go on to the next guy.

But my favorite "sings-like-Perry" guy is Hugo, and I wouldn't go if HE was fronting them. Just no interest in Journey as a live act any longer.

BTW - I never knew about Tapegate! Never read BT, wasn't a part of any forums! Was surprised to hear about it!

Criminy, Perry has so many singers riding on his coat tails I'm surprised we don't see them being dragged along in the street wherever he goes. Hell, Perry is even riding on his own coat tails!

[strangegrey]

Strangegrey - come on - give us the inside scoop: what exactly happened between you and Journey? I know you got a credit on the Arrival album...but then it appears you fell out with them. Is that right?

Mathew, there's nothing specific at all.

By outward apearances, this 'falling out' would have to have been a result of a monetary issue back in 01-02. They refused to pay me for work completed, hiding behind the fact that Rindall was fired (and the one that had brokered the agreement). They circled the wagons and went to great lengths to not have to pay me this small sum of $1k...which, incidentally, was a fraction of what the work was worth...and I was getting several times that, doing similar work for other clients. Ultimately, something broke on the website 1/2 a year later and they needed me to fix it...and thanks to help from skylorde, it was made clear that it would get fixed only after I got paid...which finally happened.

almost instantaneously, my name was ripped from the band website...(sounds familiar, eh?). God forbid you actually have to pay someone when they work for you!


If curious, those that were on other end of this bullshit? Tom Consolo, Barruck, JT, etc. I have to believe it made it to Neal too...but frankly, who gives a fuck. I am a firm believer that if Herbie Herbert were still managing the band...asuming he heard the issue from subordinates, he would have made sure I got paid post haste.


Having said all that....it's barely a factor in my issues with Journey. Ive had clients hold out on me before. It comes with the scenery when you do web consulting (one of the reasons I've gotten out of that business). The difference is in the way Journey's management tried to deny ever making the agreement for payment...that sticks in my craw.

But again...it's not a major factor. Seeing Neal treat his fans like asscheese is more an issue. Watching Friga do the same. Seeing the two of them scuttle this band into obscurity...that hurts the most...

-F

[ArnelRox]

[ArnelRox]

[Crazie Scarab]

Bottom line is Journey would have been just as great w/o Jon Cain. There are plenty of great composers out there who are song writers as well. Perry, on the otherhand was the VOICE. It is Perry's VOICE that brought life to Journey. And, remember this! Perry did have a big hand in writing the greats. Could have been any piano player/composer, IMHO!

Besides that, Jon is a dick. Never cared for him at all, to tell you and him the truth.

Yes...keyboard players who join a band and immediately co-write timeless rock classics like Don't Stop Believin'...they were dime a dozen weren't they?

I do not subscribe to popularity being the only measuring device when it comes to music. Music is very subjective and there are many Journey songs written and performed well before Cain came on board that are far better than most everything on Frontiers and about half of Escape, IMO.

Other than that, I will only apologise to Jon for calling him a dick. I cannot say I know him well enough to say that.

[ArnelRox]

[ArnelRox]

[ArnelRox]

[ArnelRox]

[ArnelRox]

[ArnelRox]

[conversationpc]

Poor Frank. U have no idea what's coming from Matty. He will twist this into some convoluted thing where u hate Journey ONLY b/c they once didn't pay u. It will all be personal. He did it to Fyre earlier in this thread bad. Then Matty's butt buddies, RaiderFan, ConversationPC & Red13JoePa will come on in to tell u Matty handed u ur ass. Just wait.

Matthew and I only agree about half the time (this has been scientifically confirmed... ). Half of that half is simply designed to irritate you.

[strangegrey]

Frankly, Mathew and I have traded enough blows this week. I dont think he or I would care to see this get ripped into something its not.

Like I said, anyone looking outwardly in, would see that there was indeed a 'falling out' between 01 and 02. That's hard to deny.....there's clarification for anyone that wants it.

But it in no way affects my decission to consider this band dead and gone...and I thought Neal was a complete douchebag/asshole long before the cocksmokers he empowered to manage his band tried to stiff me. I had Friga's number too.

So this event is a non-issue in my mind....but I'm not on any gag order from the band...and If someone wants to know what happened in 02, there's your answer.

[Wheels Of Fyre]

By outward apearances, this 'falling out' would have to have been a result of a monetary issue back in 01-02. They refused to pay me for work completed, hiding behind the fact that Rindall was fired (and the one that had brokered the agreement). They circled the wagons and went to great lengths to not have to pay me this small sum of $1k...which, incidentally, was a fraction of what the work was worth...and I was getting several times that, doing similar work for other clients. Ultimately, something broke on the website 1/2 a year later and they needed me to fix it...and thanks to help from skylorde, it was made clear that it would get fixed only after I got paid...which finally happened.

Poor Frank. U have no idea what's coming from Matty. He will twist this into some convoluted thing where u hate Journey ONLY b/c they once didn't pay u. It will all be personal. He did it to Fyre earlier in this thread bad. Then Matty's butt buddies, RaiderFan, ConversationPC & Red13JoePa will come on in to tell u Matty handed u ur ass. Just wait.

I was going to say that this is another one of those testomonies that supports the pathology that was being argued...

[Matthew]

By outward apearances, this 'falling out' would have to have been a result of a monetary issue back in 01-02. They refused to pay me for work completed, hiding behind the fact that Rindall was fired (and the one that had brokered the agreement). They circled the wagons and went to great lengths to not have to pay me this small sum of $1k...which, incidentally, was a fraction of what the work was worth...and I was getting several times that, doing similar work for other clients. Ultimately, something broke on the website 1/2 a year later and they needed me to fix it...and thanks to help from skylorde, it was made clear that it would get fixed only after I got paid...which finally happened.

Poor Frank. U have no idea what's coming from Matty. He will twist this into some convoluted thing where u hate Journey ONLY b/c they once didn't pay u. It will all be personal. He did it to Fyre earlier in this thread bad. Then Matty's butt buddies, RaiderFan, ConversationPC & Red13JoePa will come on in to tell u Matty handed u ur ass. Just wait.

I was going to say that this is another one of those testomonies that supports the pathology that was being argued...

Hark at the little ol' me spiel from Susie and Fyre...

[Wheels Of Fyre]

there are many Journey songs written and performed well before Cain came on board that are far better than most everything on Frontiers and about half of Escape, IMO.

I always liked u Brian. That statement tells me u have good taste.

Matty will now come in & bastardize it tho.

All of the hard work was done before Friga joined. The fan base was built and they were very near the top. Had Friga been a founding member I don't know that he coulda/woulda taken them as far. In any case one thing that I've NEVER seen discussed is: Friga's *choke* sex appeal.

Gregg Rolie was/is a great musician - just GREAT. The ONLY thing that Friga's done that's anywhere near Gregg's greatness is the outro on Livin' To Do (and I suspect that it was more somebody else's idea than his). Anyway, for as great as Gregg is musically, he was lacking in the looks department (many women claim he's aged well and I'd agree - the dude is sharp but I'd also like to point out my perfect record of staunch heterosexuality). I think his looks (and playing to some extent) gave JOURNEY an "older" more sophisticated image. With MTV on the horizon it made sense for JOURNEY to seek a replacement that would have something to offer in the looks department. Enter Friga - baby-face fresh from The Babys. That sweet, angelic mug was a no-brainer to help JOURNEY bring in bunches of teen girls through MTV and Tiger Beat magazine. Teen girls = $$$ in the bank.

I'd argue that Friga's LOOKS were a greater asset than anything he's ever written or played. The proof is in the pudding. The guy has absolutely no solo career outside of JOURNEY and he certainly failed - miserably - to captain the ship after SP's departure.

All looks. Well, once the teen girls grow up you have to do more than keep up with fashion. You have to throw the painted smock into the fire and actually be an ARTIST.

Didn't he learn ANYTHING from SP...?

[Wheels Of Fyre]

By outward apearances, this 'falling out' would have to have been a result of a monetary issue back in 01-02. They refused to pay me for work completed, hiding behind the fact that Rindall was fired (and the one that had brokered the agreement). They circled the wagons and went to great lengths to not have to pay me this small sum of $1k...which, incidentally, was a fraction of what the work was worth...and I was getting several times that, doing similar work for other clients. Ultimately, something broke on the website 1/2 a year later and they needed me to fix it...and thanks to help from skylorde, it was made clear that it would get fixed only after I got paid...which finally happened.

Poor Frank. U have no idea what's coming from Matty. He will twist this into some convoluted thing where u hate Journey ONLY b/c they once didn't pay u. It will all be personal. He did it to Fyre earlier in this thread bad. Then Matty's butt buddies, RaiderFan, ConversationPC & Red13JoePa will come on in to tell u Matty handed u ur ass. Just wait.

I was going to say that this is another one of those testomonies that supports the pathology that was being argued...

Hark at the little ol' me spiel from Susie and Fyre...

The thing is that you won't acknowledge these experiences/testimonies as valid. In fact, you find every possible excuse to invalidate them: "Maybe this or maybe that..."

Maybe - just maybe it's exactly what it appears to be! Maybe it's just that simple.

[Wheels Of Fyre]

LOL! Nobody claimed anyone was going hungry - nice bait but I'm not biting.

For someone who claims that others have been grossly exaggerating JC's personality, etc. you appear to be the guy who invented how to blow things out of proportion!

Since 1998 I've spent approximately $150 on JOURNEY/solo-related material. That's about $1.40/month.

Let's keep things real, eh?

The fact remains though that you have a Jonathan Cain album on your CD rack at home...and I don't!

And that alone might make me the better judge when it comes to his body of work - and character.

[Matthew]

The thing is that you won't acknowledge these experiences/testimonies as valid. In fact, you find every possible excuse to invalidate them: "Maybe this or maybe that..."

Maybe - just maybe it's exactly what it appears to be! Maybe it's just that simple.

Which experiences, Fyre? Frank's first-hand experience of Journey? Or Susie's predictions about what I'm about to say or do?

[Matthew]

LOL! Nobody claimed anyone was going hungry - nice bait but I'm not biting.

For someone who claims that others have been grossly exaggerating JC's personality, etc. you appear to be the guy who invented how to blow things out of proportion!

Since 1998 I've spent approximately $150 on JOURNEY/solo-related material. That's about $1.40/month.

Let's keep things real, eh?

The fact remains though that you have a Jonathan Cain album on your CD rack at home...and I don't!

And that alone might make me the better judge when it comes to his body of work - and character.

No it doesn't. Your ownership of the Jonathan Cain solo CD makes you more of a fan of the guy's solo work than I am. It doesn't make you a better judge.

[Matthew]

All of the hard work was done before Friga joined. The fan base was built and they were very near the top.

Well, if the top is 9 million albums....then selling 3 million albums isn't "very near" the top.

The ONLY thing that Friga's done that's anywhere near Gregg's greatness is the outro on Livin' To Do (and I suspect that it was more somebody else's idea than his).

You're just being surly and extreme for the hell of it now, aren't you Fyre?

Anyway, for as great as Gregg is musically, he was lacking in the looks department (many women claim he's aged well and I'd agree - the dude is sharp but I'd also like to point out my perfect record of staunch heterosexuality). I think his looks (and playing to some extent) gave JOURNEY an "older" more sophisticated image. With MTV on the horizon it made sense for JOURNEY to seek a replacement that would have something to offer in the looks department. Enter Friga - baby-face fresh from The Babys. That sweet, angelic mug was a no-brainer to help JOURNEY bring in bunches of teen girls through MTV and Tiger Beat magazine. Teen girls = $$$ in the bank.

This is possibly a fair point - but I'm really not sure how much of a babe magnet Cain was in the Separate Ways video.

You have to throw the painted smock into the fire and actually be an ARTIST.

It was a long COAT.

[Wheels Of Fyre]

All of the hard work was done before Friga joined. The fan base was built and they were very near the top.

Well, if the top is 9 million albums....then selling 3 million albums isn't "very near" the top.

You can't boil it down to record sales. JOURNEY's fan base was built prior to Friga. That took a monumental effort. You may recall how JOURNEY's fan base turned their backs on them when SP joined. It took several years with lots of touring and radio exposure to get them to where they were when Friga joined.

When you look at the big picture it can be argued that SP's voice, MTV, and Friga's looks had more to do with the success of E5C4P3 than the song writing!

I know you're giong to argue against this but the reality is that E5C4P3 was successful because it was more marketable than anything they'd ever done. I don't know if they stole a page from KISS's marketing playbook or maybe they were just lucky and in the right place at the right time. Speaking of KISS - could you imagine just how much more successful they'd have been had they started during the time of MTV?

E5C4P3 had the packaging and the kinds of anthems that made for great imagery and marketability. It was a natural for a video game which were also super hot and coming into their own.

How could they lose with E5C4P3? You want to say that JC made the difference. HA! The reality is that JC was the recipient of a massive and dedicated fan base, MTV, and a highly marketable E3C4P3 album. Of course, he co-wrote the songs but he was in no way the "X" factor.

Let's look at one more thing. As mentioned when SP came on board the fans hated it. When gregg left the fans hated it, too BUT were in now way as angry as they were when SP joined. Why is that? Because the fans by then were SP fans. They were fans of The Voice. While Gergg's departure was painful the fans still found comfort in The Voice. So it really didn't matter who replaced Gregg - they were going to get a pass. Friga got that pass. He got more of a pass than SP did!

To get back to your record sales point. So did JOURNEY's record sales go up because of Friga or because of everything else I mentioned?

[Matthew]

Wow...you've really been shrieking up this thread in the last few hours, haven't you Susie?

I'm going to tell u something. I suggest u sit down & take a deep breath before u read it. There are people in this world who do not like Journey & their music period. There are people in this world who do not like ESC4P3 or ANY of Friga's contributions to Journey. I've met several of these people. I know this is a shock to u. But those songs, while obviously being the greatest things in ur mind, well to other people they're just songs they heard on the radio & changed the channel.

You've been living in the States too long. Have you forgotten that Journey are virtually unknown in the UK? And that even those few people who have heard of them think they're a cheesy, joke band. That's why I come to this site to talk to serious Journey fans who understand the genius of this band...oh...and also to talk to you, of course.

Ur asking me if I realize that? Look in the mirror. I don't hero worship the guy.

It's funny. You must be such a narcissist, Susie. I know you read all the posts very carefully but you must simply be scanning them for your name. How else to explain the fact that you haven't taken in a single one of my posts which are critical of Jonathan Cain?

You just keep plundering on with this 'hero worship' line...even when ON THE SAME PAGE I'm saying Cain's career in post-Perry Journey and all his solo work is either mediocre or baffling.

when u don't want to answer a question b/c u know the answer will incriminate u, u twist the words & do ur best to insult the person who asked u w/out being too insulting.

Ask the question in plain English...and I'll respond.

Oh yeah Matty. Use the term over & over, then call me a moron? WTF! Do u realize how stupid u look?

For the FOURTH time....the term "Amadeus" was an affectionate joke cracked by Steve Perry on Good Morning America in 1986. Do I need to wave a giant flag every time I write or reference something that isn't meant in a deadly serious and literal way?

[NoMoreTails]

Fucka and Dope can't feel the hit at their wallets yet...as they've not produced anything that we can purchase....and maybe that's why they're 'taking a break'. The last thing they want is this JSS business fresh in the minds of their wishy washy fans. Burry the story underneath the sopranos bullshit....and wait out the storm.

I really wonder if the break this year is because they knew they'd be without a singer this summer early in the year. They kept Jeff around to complete the European shows and the Va show that had been on the schedule for some time. If they really planned on moving forward with JSS, it makes no sense for them not to have scheduled the summer tour, not for a band that wouldn't take a summer off the gravy train the last six years to rest a singer who needed a break. It never quite made sense to loose the momentum they looked to have gained last year by taking this year off, doesn't add up. I would think they'd have toured the summer and recorded around those dates, still having time to complete an album by the end of the year, which was the supposed eta.

[CatEyes]

It seems to me that the most crucial factor in JSS' departure was the utter indifference of the labels to this new line-up.

But they had a record deal w/JSS as the frontman ....

With who?

A major label.

I have never seen this confirmed anywhere ...... only hinted to as insider information.

Cat

Andrew confirmed it. Is that not good enough? It is for me.

Again, that comes under insider information.

Cat

[conversationpc]

Again, that comes under insider information.

Cat

Until proven otherwise, Andrew has been a credible source of information and, last I checked, he is not really an insider.

[Red13JoePa]

Poor Frank. U have no idea what's coming from Matty. He will twist this into some convoluted thing where u hate Journey ONLY b/c they once didn't pay u. It will all be personal. He did it to Fyre earlier in this thread bad. Then Matty's butt buddies, RaiderFan, ConversationPC & Red13JoePa will come on in to tell u Matty handed u ur ass. Just wait

You're insane.
I've BARELY been in this thread and would never tell Matthew he handed Strangegrey his ass.
I don't VIEW every difference of opinion I partake of as a virtual barroom donnybrook brawl to the death.
However, pathological confrontational arguer that you are, you were compelled at one dominant angry stretch above to post arguments in 8 out of 9 posts including a mind boggling SIX IN A ROW. Stop trying to be Deano and be you. At his WORST he was never this heavy-handed or obsessive and his style ONLY WORKS FOR HIM!

[ArnelRox]