Anyone know anything about this?

[heardonthestreet]

Sorry everyone. I read this wrong. I retract my above post.

http:www.journeymusic.com/fanclub/members/press_room/press_room0026.html

[Eric]

1) The fact they had waited 10 years beforehand should be weighed in.

2) I am not trying to spin, I am not anti-Perry, however, Fleischman did
show a TON of promise...the song "For You" is amazing! Most of Infinity was in place before Perry joined I believe? It is possible Journey would have become a pretty big rock band without Perry - it is not possible they would have become a MONSTER Pop band without him though.

3) I do think they would be playing a mainly greatest hits set if Perry were still in the band....but "Nostalgia band" does fit - I argued it for a long time - but they just haven't played/made much new music in 8 years so I can no longer argue.

4) Augeri does cover Perry's singing - but to call him a cover singer is a little extreme IMO...

[ohsherrie]

If you were to hurt yourself to the extent that you could not work, and you expected to return to work when you were better, wouldn't you atleast update your work on your progress? Wouldn't your work expect you to keep them informed? And if you didn't keep them informed, isn't it a reasonable action to hire someone else who can do the job?

I don't think this analogy is completely applicable to their situation. Steve wasn't just a "worker" in their business, he was an equal shareholder and intregal part of the company.

I DO think it is entirely possible that Neal and Jon might have 'pushed' for Perry to do whatever was quickest "for the sake of the band" HAD THEY KNOWN. And that would not have been right either. But I think the biggest foul here is that Perry left the band hanging.

They knew what his problem was and what kind of decision he had to make. I also know that in one interview it was said that they did indeed want him to hurry into the surgery and get on the road.

I have noticed that a lot of Perry-only fans are now saying that they never "said" Perry was the 'only' reason for Journey's success. but the bulk of 'your' posts imply otherwise. And it is even more apparant when you won't consider that Journey "could" have become pretty big, sort of big, just as big, or bigger with a different vocalist. You won't even entertain the idea that Journey could have done just fine with Robert Fleischman.

Despite what you may have inferred from my remarks, I've given Neal and Jon credit for their talent, I just don't like a lot of the things they've done and said where Journey and Steve Perry are concerned. I don't think either of them is as talented as Steve, but I've always agreed that it was the magic of the combination of those three talents that made Journey the band that they were. I don't think it could have been, or will ever be, that great without the three of them. I do, however, think musicians in general are more easily replaced than a signature voice and singing style. Why would I think they could have done as well with Fleischman when the "powers that were" at the time obviously didn't think so?

Their right to do. The name did not belong to ONE person. ESPECIALLY a member of the band who was not an original member. And you can call them Nostalgia all you want to...but do you really think things would be that different if Perry WERE still in the band? The setlist would still be similar...greatest hits with some rarities thrown in.

Having "the right" doesn't necessarily make it "right". They most certainly are nostalgia because their audiences, by their own admission, don't even want to hear anything from them but the classics.

One difference that there would be if Steve was still with them is that they'd have at least twice the audience that they have now and sell at least twice as many cds. We were there for them when they released TBF and we still would be if Steve was still there.

Why do you still have to call him a cover singer? He HAS recorded new music with the band. You give him zero respect. You have the right to hold Neal accountable for his words toward Perry, but Steve has done nothing but be completely respectful.

I give him the same amount of respect that I give the singers that cover Steve's work in tribute bands. Well, actually I think some of them are better than he is, but I've never said he wasn't a decent singer. He just has no business trying to replace the signature voice of Journey. I know he's said respectful things about Steve, it would have been professional suicide not to while he's trying to imitate him, but I don't think it is "showing respect" to try to pass himself off as a replacement for Steve Perry.

I really don't think ANYONE has denied Neal's behaviour. But I do see a lot of excusing it...and I think that is fair. He had the right to respond, just like you do, just like I do. We all know there is a big difference in how Neal handles situations and how Perry does. Perry is much more introverted. He internalizes much of his feelings, and he is very emotional without being angry. Whereas Neal seems to get angry. I would imagine much of that has to do with 'growing up' around Herbie...who is a complete hothead. But Neal and Perry are two completely different people. Perry had family that was very important to him. Neal had bands that were like family and were very important to him. But they got different values from different situations.

They are definitely VERY different and from what I've seen and heard from them I think I could probably like Steve personally, but absolutely not Neal.

All that can be a reason why you prefer Perry over Neal, but it still should not excuse the lack of respect for Neal (and Jon, and every other member of Journey) and his (their) talent and contributions to Journey.

I think I covered that above.

You're exactly right Lori, but some people will twist anything you say, in whatever way they can to try to sound like they have a valid way to contradict you.

You KNOW that has gone both ways since the beginning of time (or 1997).

Yeah, but some people get a LOT nastier with it than others. Lori is never hateful to anyone, so she shouldn't be treated that way.

[Liz22562]

Andrew was right, round and round and round we go.

Steve Augeri has been the utmost gentleman and shown more respect by doing justice to some of the Journey songs that Steve use to sing.

He accepted a position with Journey. He's not a cover singer. He's a member of a band. That bands name is Journey. Sometimes he sings lead. Sometimes Deen sings lead. Sometimes Ross sings lead. Sometimes Jon sings lead, etc.

Steve Perry (lordy knows I love the guy) doesn't want to sing with Journey. Who knows, maybe one day he will change his mind. But it is obvious no one is sitting around waiting for him to do so. 'Nuff said.

Journey On.....

[Rockindeano]

NC said-

No ONE singular person is solely responsible for bringing "the success" to this band.
That's why it is called a "band".

I disagree. I say Herbie Herbert got Journey out of the clubs and into Stadiums... Without this guy who knows how far Journey would have gone.. Yes they are talented, but this guy made all the decisions, and drove the car... He is the one who had the keys, not Perry, as Cain once said...

[heardonthestreet]

Who knows what tomorrow will bring. I've been waiting for years now for Journey to make it without Perry, just to prove me wrong, but so far, I'm not seeing it.

If Cain had had so much influence, he would have had something to brag about these past few years. It's my opinion that Perry made hits of his songs for him with his signiture voice.

H.H. had the key alright, Deano, and it was Perry. God Bless Herbie!

[jrnyman28]

I don't think this analogy is completely applicable to their situation. Steve wasn't just a "worker" in their business, he was an equal shareholder and intregal part of the company.

I don't see how that changes anything.

They knew what his problem was and what kind of decision he had to make.

But that does not mean Perry shouldn't keep his band mates up to date.

I also know that in one interview it was said that they did indeed want him to hurry into the surgery and get on the road.

Doesn't surprise me, but I can understand this mentality...especially from Neal, who has been on the road nearly all his life.

I would have to say that this event in Journey history simply exemplified the base differences between Perry and Neal. Those base differences include their desires in life (music/touring vs. personal life) and, of course, their personality traits (brash, unsophisticated vs. contemplative/emotional).

I do, however, think musicians in general are more easily replaced than a signature voice and singing style.

I can understand this because so many people don't 'pay attention' to the underlying substance. The 'voice' is the 'face' is the 'star' is the responsible party. I just think real fans see the rest.

Why would I think they could have done as well with Fleischman when the "powers that were" at the time obviously didn't think so?

I don't think it was that Herbie didn't think Robert could do the job...it was that Herbie KNEW that Perry would. Also, the band has said that the fans didn't take to Robert as well as they hoped. They weighed their options and made the right choice. But that doesn't mean they would not have enjoyed some success with Robert (or even someone else!) But, lucky for Us AND Them that Herbie made the right decision and hired Perry!

Having "the right" doesn't necessarily make it "right".

But what is right and what is wrong is a matter of individual opinion. Yours differs from Neal's and Jon's (and many other fans who continue to enjoy Journey).

They most certainly are nostalgia because their audiences, by their own admission, don't even want to hear anything from them but the classics.

I agree that most of the fans want that...but you shouldn't fault Journey for that. They are stuck between a rock and a hard place because they want to please their fans. They already sacrificed a large portion of their fanbase by continuing on without perry, Journey had to make the smart decision to appease the 'remaining' fans.

One difference that there would be if Steve was still with them is that they'd have at least twice the audience that they have now and sell at least twice as many cds. We were there for them when they released TBF and we still would be if Steve was still there.

Well, you are guessing about the amount of audience growth, but I agree that there would be a larger fanbase. However, would that audience remain with the very real possibility that Journey would not be touring? And it is equally speculative that Journey would not have continued at all if they had to wait for Perry. The unknown future WITH Perry was a bigger risk (at that point) than the certain (yet smaller) future without Perry.

He just has no business trying to replace the signature voice of Journey.

Yes he does. You just do not like that he did it. But, reducing to business further illustrates how Perry could be replaced. It WAS a matter of business. Afterall, Perry said he didn't feel like part of the band, he didn't buy into that 'family' thing, always felt like the outsider. And he treated Journey JUST like a business. So, after all those years, Journey FINALLY reacted like a business.

I know he's said respectful things about Steve, it would have been professional suicide not to

So you don't think it was genuine?

while he's trying to imitate him,

There you go again. The man already sounded similar to Perry, but you say he was imitating him. Yet, you like Hugo. Now THAT is an imitaion!!

but I don't think it is "showing respect" to try to pass himself off as a replacement for Steve Perry.

He is not "trying to pass himself off as a replacement". He IS Perry's replacement. Steve replaced Perry. That is a fact. Again, you just don't like it.

They are definitely VERY different and from what I've seen and heard from them I think I could probably like Steve personally, but absolutely not Neal.

I completely accept this.

[jrnyman28]

Who knows what tomorrow will bring. I've been waiting for years now for Journey to make it without Perry, just to prove me wrong, but so far, I'm not seeing it.

But you don't factor in the changes in the musical climate. You want Journey to be just as big as they were in the 80's, but that is an impossibility...even WITH Perry in the band.

If Cain had had so much influence, he would have had something to brag about these past few years.

If he were the bragging type...
Since music is subjective, I can say that I think Journey (Jon Cain and Neal Schon included) have continued to write some GREAT material.

It's my opinion that Perry made hits of his songs for him with his signiture voice.

H.H. had the key alright, Deano, and it was Perry. God Bless Herbie!

I can understand and accept that Perry made Jon's songs hits. At the same time, I can see that Perry needed their material in order for the world to hear him. It still goes both ways. Without Journey there would most likely be no Perry. There was a Journey without Perry but they definately benefitted from his addtioin to the band.

Herbie was right that Perry was a big part of the puzzle. Perry was the first 'key'. Perry opened the first door, and with Jon's help Journey opened the gates...

[heardonthestreet]

Then why is he not still opening doors? Is his key missing?

[jrnyman28]

The doors only stay open for a limited time. You get a couple of years and then you're out.





Realistically, a band/group/artist only get three years on top. Journey's time on top was from 1981 until 1984. The release of Escape, Frontiers and finishing the Frontiers tour. By the time ROR came out, they were "coming down" again. Unfortunately, it took Journey eight years to get to the top, but only three years to fall and disappear completely.

[heardonthestreet]

Bump!

[Rockindeano]

I would say Perry was not a key at all. Look, this is an awfully talented band, and if you want to use analogies, lets use a motor. Journey is an six cylinder motor. 6 cylinders of which Neal, Gregg, Smith, Perry,Valory, Cain, (early on). Then we lost one(Rolie), then Perry, yet picked up 2(Augeri and Deen), keeping the motor humming. YET, there has to be a driver, and this is where Perry really pisses me off, and Jon and Neal too for agreeing with Perry to fire Herbie. It's like we lost Jimmie Johnson, and picked some middle of the road guy. Irving Azoff has a big name, but what exactly has he done? Eagles? yeah, so what? I could resurrect the fucking Eagles!


Herbie, IMO, was the key, the driver, the owner, and most importantly, the caretaker of a fragile group of personalities; a once well oiled machine, that used to race first, and now races mid-pack...

[The_Noble_Cause]

I also know that in one interview it was said that they did indeed want him to hurry into the surgery and get on the road.

As Neal said in an interview (regarding Perry's "injury"), "we'll wait for you if you do want to do it."
The reason they moved on without him is because it became pellucidly clear that this guy wasn't gonna tour no matter how long they waited. Herbie had warned them about it going into TBF, saying Perry had NO intention of touring to support the record.
Also, when factoring in Perry's own track record of indolence (putting the band on hold for ten years after cutting the ROR tour short, cutting the FTLOSM tour short, refusing to sing at the Bammies, refusing to sing with the band at Herbie's celebration, refusing to add new vocals to the Time 3box set) the writing was pretty plainly written on the wall.

If there stood the slightest chance for him to get on the road with them, then they would've waited for him. I have no doubt about that.
Neal and Jon are not dumb, they know the difference between touring with Perry and with an unestablished vocalist.
As Neal said himself, "Instead of playing in here where 10,000 people or whatever is going to be here tonight, we’d be playing baseball stadiums."

However, playing for 10,000 people certainly beats playing for no one at all and had they had waited for Perry, that's exactly who they'd be playing for currently; NOBODY.
Because they'd still be waiting.

[The_Noble_Cause]

We were there for them when they released TBF and we still would be if Steve was still there.

Yeah, but he's not "still there" by his own choosing.
Comprende?
Music industry big-wig and Perry-confidante, John Kalodner has repeatedly stated that Journey would take Perry back.
Fuck, even Steve Augeri is on record stating the minute Perry wants the job back, he'd (sadly) vacate the role.
What more do you want, lady?

He just has no business trying to replace the signature voice of Journey.

Y'know, I've seen alot of pablum spewed forth from the *other side* in my years, but this one reaches new astronomic levels of sheer inanity.

You mean to tell me that just because it so displeases you, Steve Augeri, a professional singer, is not entitled to take a job offer and make an earnest living for himself?

Lord help us all.

[Rockindeano]

NC said-

The reason they moved on without him is because it became pellucidly clear

Dude, breaking out the heavy guns tonight? I like it dude. The vocabulary is quite impressive.

By the way, I'm not questioning whether Augeri said that he would vacate the position or not, but do you know where I could find that quote??

Thanks

[The_Noble_Cause]

NC said-
By the way, I'm not questioning whether Augeri said that he would vacate the position or not, but do you know where I could find that quote??

Certainly.
I have posted it here before. http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/artic ... en11a.html

Here is the quote (in context of article):

And though he probably wouldn't greet the day with open arms, Augeri insisted he would be just fine if Perry decided to patch things up with his former bandmates and return to the fold. After all, Augeri has lived with that back-of-mind reality from the start of his tenure.

"If and when that day ever comes, I will gracefully and respectfully — though very sadly — take a step back, and thank each and every member of 'my gang' as well as Mr. Perry himself because they gave me the opportunity of a lifetime," said Augeri.

"They brought a boy out of retirement and gave me the gift of music again."

[NealIsGod]

Pellucidly. I like it!

Some great posts by TNC and Deano. And 28, you have got a great perspective on Journey. Even though this topic is played out, this has been some interesting reading. Do you guys think Journey members read these boards? I know Neal loves Andrew and melodicrock.com, so maybe he does read the boards? If so, Neal, don't worry about the Perryheads, true Journey fans know you are the heart of Journey.

[heardonthestreet]

Just the out of control guitar, imo. jmho. We all see things differently. We just have to agree to disagree.

[Rockindeano]

Well, you can disagree, you can agree, I don't give a shit...The only thing I know, is Neal Schon is still here, still being a rock star, still being a professional, and still entertaining me and us, with his craft...which is pretty damned good.

See, Neal gets it. He came into this business, and respects the business, while others, for whatever reason , had to get out. I am so sick of this conversation, however, I know who I am siding with..I am with the guys who give back to their fans; ie. Mr Schon.

[heardonthestreet]

Great post Deano. For what it's worth, I have to agree with that part of it.

[Rockindeano]

HOTS- I know you are in the Perry camp, and I have this to say. I just watched a Frontiers concert, and Perry is downright magical..the way he literally captivates an audience...He totally controlled everything..the tempo, the crowd, the energy..I am sorry, I honestly don't think there was ever a frontman as good. Call me fruity, but Steve Fuckin Perry could flat out bring it..... I am pissed he retired. There, Done!

[heardonthestreet]

Wow! Another great post. Your on a roll. Dosen't watching those video's make you crazy? Thanks for understanding!

[Rockindeano]

Wow! Another great post. Your on a roll. Dosen't watching those video's make you crazy? Thanks for understanding!

I never did not understand you HOTS... I just wish somehow you could understand the rest of us that in order to see Journey continue, Augeri can do what Perry won't, so we embrace what is in front of us. I never said Perry was not good, err, great; in fact I always said vocally and showmanship, there was none better, and yes I am including all the Euro's..Plant, Mercury et al..they get sympathy votes as far as I'm concerned. Anyway, if anyone can watch Perry and not be in awe, is a retarded dumbdick..

So please if I can meet you halfway, meet me there too. Hell, I can try to solve racism by days end if I really try..let me get on that..bye

[NealIsGod]

I agree that Perry is the best person to ever front a rock band, period. No one can touch his voice or his emotion when singing when he was in his prime. Since he chooses not to, Steve Augeri, a man who respects Perry and his talent, is filling his shoes as best he can and in his own way. And I think he is doing a great job. There will NEVER be another Steve Perry, but Steve Augeri deserves our respect and appreciation for helping the Journey to continue.

[heardonthestreet]

It's all in the eye of the beholder. Lets just agree to disagree politely.

[Liz22562]

Great posts to all! I will definitely agree to disagree.

NealisGod, you are so right on. Steve Perry was magical in his day. I would give anything to see him in concert just one last time, with Journey. Though I don't think that will ever happen, I would also love to hug Steve Augeri and thank him for helping "the Journey" to continue. I have seen them in concert several times (with Steve Augeri) and they were awesome!

Journey on.....

[Rockindeano]

Great posts to all! I will definitely agree to disagree.

NealisGod, you are so right on. Steve Perry was magical in his day.
Journey on.....

Hey, I said that, not Nealisgod... Come on now!

[Eric]

I am a HUGE new Journey supporter...but Perry is pure Magic...even just his speech at the WOF was kool in the gang

[Rockindeano]

I am a HUGE new Journey supporter...but Perry is pure Magic...even just his speech at the WOF was kool in the gang

Did you hear how powerful his voice was??

[yak]

Journey's time on top was from 1981 until 1984. The release of Escape, Frontiers and finishing the Frontiers tour. By the time ROR came out, they were "coming down" again. Unfortunately, it took Journey eight years to get to the top, but only three years to fall and disappear completely.

There was quite a bit of dissension during the making of ROR, which Lora and the fan club covered up. The stories were always about how great the album was coming, and all the while it wasn't even being made.

The momentum was there, and yet, because of Perry, it went downhill at that time.

Wonder if the ride was worth the fall?