How much does a Journey lead singer make -- any guesses?

[nolippin]

The OptiMystic said:
It had to be terrible to get up there and a) know he couldn't bring it, and b) know that he had to use tapes. I just can't imagine that he was fine with this in any way, shape or form. And the acknowledged facts that, even with the tapes he has been destroying his voice trying his damndest to sing anyway shows that he was at least trying.

Those were not his only options. He could have stepped down when he knew he could not longer "bring it"...which according to the PR was before this tour...with some grace and dignity instead of humiliating himself and the band and being booted in shame.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Will those that disliked Augeri now flock behind Soto even though he's not Perry? If so, why?

I think you might find a few hardcore Perry fanatics more willing to give Jeff a chance.
This is owed largely to the fact that Jeff is sort of an established musician and has more of his own vocal style.
Augeri had his own vocal identity, too, but he had been retired for so long, dawdling about in obscurity.
The band didn't help matters by promulgating him as "Perry with a Perm".
They pigeon holed him in a sense.

[siobhan222]

The "Swedish Guy"'s name is Svante Petterson(forgive me, if I misspelled it, Svante) and He posts here under the nic "swepett". He has been very forthcoming with both his credentials and his knowledge of the Swedish show.

Perhaps you could direct your questions to him.

I don't have any questions. He has posted his credentials here. I could post credentials saying I was the Queen of England but it doesn't mean that I am. We're all anonymous here unless someone verifies who we are.

[whocares]

whatever the case, Fraud in "the real world" would get most all of us prison terms.

I dont' agree with making Augeri the fall guy, it's just what happened.

Well obviously rules in the music world are different. I didn't hear about Milli Vannilli (sp?) going to prison. Or Ashlee Simpson. Some have said that Steve Tyler has used tapes. Others said Madonna did. And many more. In the 60s and 70s, no bands performed live on variety shows. It was all taped. They didn't go to jail as far as I know.

How can you allow Augeri to be made the fall guy and let the rest of the band off free -- knowing that if this is true -- and you seem to believe it is -- then every single one of the rest of the band knew about it. And they all want you to make Steve the fall guy? How can you allow them to manipulate you like that and still have self respect?

Well now you've totally lost me. I have no control over the band making Augeri the fall guy. In case you haven't read my psots tonight I've blamed everyone in the band equally. I have plenty of self respect. I don't need someone telling me I don't or questioning mine. I seriously think you need to take a rest before you get people pissed off at you for your yes I'm saying "agenda" tonight. This sin't about any of the other singers outside of Journey. This is about a band that most people here are fans of. Milli Vanilli never sang a note, it was someone else singing even on the records, much less in "concert". At least Steve A. is accused of singing to his own voice.

I defended your right to post whatever you posted as your opinions, bnut now I'm questioning my own opinion to stick up for you. You're quickly making a name for yourself as a troublemaker.

[JrnySuxBalls]

The man did his job spectacularly (in my opinion-we obviously know there are many who didn't like Augeri) for the better part of his tenure.

I liked him, I pulled for the "underdog" for a long time, I would hardly call his work spectacular.
When I first heard him, I thought he has potential it'll be great if he improves and steps up to
the plate. It didn't happen. He regressed over time if anything.

Alot of talk about how hard touring can be, and that Neal forced him to blow out his voice by
working him too hard. But the bottom line is, it was Augeri's job to manage his voice, take care
of it, and to sing correctly and become stronger. They'd come out the first night of a tour after
a long break, and he sounded like he hadn't sang in months. I just seriously wonder how truly
driven the guy was.

[siobhan222]

Jeff's got balls.
They tell him to lip and he will say "go fuck yourself!"

You may be right about Jeff. But then, they'll fire him and hire someone else. And what if he doesn't have balls to say no?

Or what if Deen can't drum anymore .. or Ross can't play bass anymore ... or Jon can't play keyboards anymore. Do they all have the balls to say no?

[nolippin]

AMEN!!!!!

whatever the case, Fraud in "the real world" would get most all of us prison terms.

I dont' agree with making Augeri the fall guy, it's just what happened.

Well obviously rules in the music world are different. I didn't hear about Milli Vannilli (sp?) going to prison. Or Ashlee Simpson. Some have said that Steve Tyler has used tapes. Others said Madonna did. And many more. In the 60s and 70s, no bands performed live on variety shows. It was all taped. They didn't go to jail as far as I know.

How can you allow Augeri to be made the fall guy and let the rest of the band off free -- knowing that if this is true -- and you seem to believe it is -- then every single one of the rest of the band knew about it. And they all want you to make Steve the fall guy? How can you allow them to manipulate you like that and still have self respect?

Well now you've totally lost me. I have no control over the band making Augeri the fall guy. In case you haven't read my psots tonight I've blamed everyone in the band equally. I have plenty of self respect. I don't need someone telling me I don't or questioning mine. I seriously think you need to take a rest before you get people pissed off at you for your yes I'm saying "agenda" tonight. This sin't about any of the other singers outside of Journey. This is about a band that most people here are fans of. Milli Vanilli never sang a note, it was someone else singing even on the records, much less in "concert". At least Steve A. is accused of singing to his own voice.

I defended your right to post whatever you posted as your opinions, bnut now I'm questioning my own opinion to stick up for you. You're quickly making a name for yourself as a troublemaker.

[siobhan222]

Those were not his only options. He could have stepped down when he knew he could not longer "bring it"...which according to the PR was before this tour...with some grace and dignity instead of humiliating himself and the band and being booted in shame.

That's true --- if all these allegations are true, he could have stepped down. But he might have had to do so without any money and that's tough for a family man who may not have been making a fortune all these years anyway.

And I could also say that ANY one of the other band members could have refused to go along with this alleged fraud and stepped down with some grace and dignity instead of humiliating themselves and the band. But they didn't .. and they weren't booted in shame.

Why isn't what is good for the goose also good for the gander?

[The_Noble_Cause]

I just seriously wonder how truly
driven the guy was.

By all accounts, Steve was meticulous with his voice.
Herbie has said as much, too.
Augeri would jog before shows, leave the shower on in his hotel room all nite long to keep his pipes humid, recieve throat massages between songs, not speak on certain days, limited his drinking.
I really think all those years of singing Journey songs just took their toll.
It's sad.

[siobhan222]

I think you might find a few hardcore Perry fanatics more willing to give Jeff a chance.
This is owed largely to the fact that Jeff is sort of an established musician and has more of his own vocal style.
Augeri had his own vocal identity, too, but he had been retired for so long, dawdling about in obscurity.
The band didn't help matters by promulgating him as "Perry with a Perm".
They pigeon holed him in a sense.

Perhaps ... but it was actually the other "new guy" Deen who made that Perry with a Perm comment on the BTM. Funny, huh?

Actually, in my humble opinion, if hardcore Perry fanatics give Jeff a chance, it will just be because Augeri is gone. They hated Augeri for taking "their precious Steve's" role. They had a lot of hard feelings about it. They couldn't back down from that position over these last 8 years even if they wanted to. They would have looked like hypocrites. 8 years later, they're missing being Journey fans -- and this provides them with an excuse.

And you know what? I can actually relate to that. When I got to that show Monday expecting Augeri and Jeff walked out, I hated him immediately because he wasn't "my precious Steve". I have hard feelings about it. As time has gone on, my hard feelings are being directed more and more at Neal. But on Monday night, when I was clueless, all I saw was another guy doing what the guy I came to see should have been doing. And I was livid.

[nolippin]

Because it was Augeri who decided to fake it. I don't care how poor he was or would have been that does not excuse it.

Now you are just talking in circles. We've answered your questions. You just don't like the anwers.

Those were not his only options. He could have stepped down when he knew he could not longer "bring it"...which according to the PR was before this tour...with some grace and dignity instead of humiliating himself and the band and being booted in shame.

That's true --- if all these allegations are true, he could have stepped down. But he might have had to do so without any money and that's tough for a family man who may not have been making a fortune all these years anyway.

And I could also say that ANY one of the other band members could have refused to go along with this alleged fraud and stepped down with some grace and dignity instead of humiliating themselves and the band. But they didn't .. and they weren't booted in shame.

Why isn't what is good for the goose also good for the gander?

[The_Noble_Cause]

Actually, in my humble opinion, if hardcore Perry fanatics give Jeff a chance, it will just be because Augeri is gone. They hated Augeri for taking "their precious Steve's" role. They had a lot of hard feelings about it. They couldn't back down from that position over these last 8 years even if they wanted to. They would have looked like hypocrites. 8 years later, they're missing being Journey fans -- and this provides them with an excuse.

You could very well be right!

And you know what? I can actually relate to that. When I got to that show Monday expecting Augeri and Jeff walked out, I hated him immediately because he wasn't "my precious Steve". I have hard feelings about it. As time has gone on, my hard feelings are being directed more and more at Neal. But on Monday night, when I was clueless, all I saw was another guy doing what the guy I came to see should have been doing. And I was livid.

Understandably so.

[whocares]

I think you might find a few hardcore Perry fanatics more willing to give Jeff a chance.
This is owed largely to the fact that Jeff is sort of an established musician and has more of his own vocal style.
Augeri had his own vocal identity, too, but he had been retired for so long, dawdling about in obscurity.
The band didn't help matters by promulgating him as "Perry with a Perm".
They pigeon holed him in a sense.

Perhaps ... but it was actually the other "new guy" Deen who made that Perry with a Perm comment on the BTM. Funny, huh?

Actually, in my humble opinion, if hardcore Perry fanatics give Jeff a chance, it will just be because Augeri is gone. They hated Augeri for taking "their precious Steve's" role. They had a lot of hard feelings about it. They couldn't back down from that position over these last 8 years even if they wanted to. They would have looked like hypocrites. 8 years later, they're missing being Journey fans -- and this provides them with an excuse.

And you know what? I can actually relate to that. When I got to that show Monday expecting Augeri and Jeff walked out, I hated him immediately because he wasn't "my precious Steve". I have hard feelings about it. As time has gone on, my hard feelings are being directed more and more at Neal. But on Monday night, when I was clueless, all I saw was another guy doing what the guy I came to see should have been doing. And I was livid.

well there ya go, you need to take your lividness somewhere else. because bitching at us because "you're Stevie" isn't in the band anymore isn't OUR fault. Don't blame us because JSS is in the band now.

Shit, leave 'em enough rope...

[siobhan222]

You've lost me here and I don't understand why you are suddenly angry. I'm sorry that I appear to have made you angry. It wasn't my intent. And I don't see how my continuing the discussion makes me a troublemaker.

You said "fraud in the real world would get most of us prison terms" and I responded to that point by saying that it's obviously different in the music business and provided examples of others who had done what is alleged Steve did and yet, they were never jailed.

You then said you didn't agree with making Augeri the fall guy. And I asked how you could do that and let the rest of the band off free? I never said you had control over making Augeri the fall guy. If you aren't letting the rest of the band off free, then please say so. You gave me the impression that you were. But I may have been mistaken about that and if I am, I apologize. There's no way to judge a person's emotions from the written words and it can be difficult to tell a person's intent.

whatever the case, Fraud in "the real world" would get most all of us prison terms.

I dont' agree with making Augeri the fall guy, it's just what happened.

Well obviously rules in the music world are different. I didn't hear about Milli Vannilli (sp?) going to prison. Or Ashlee Simpson. Some have said that Steve Tyler has used tapes. Others said Madonna did. And many more. In the 60s and 70s, no bands performed live on variety shows. It was all taped. They didn't go to jail as far as I know.

How can you allow Augeri to be made the fall guy and let the rest of the band off free -- knowing that if this is true -- and you seem to believe it is -- then every single one of the rest of the band knew about it. And they all want you to make Steve the fall guy? How can you allow them to manipulate you like that and still have self respect?

Well now you've totally lost me. I have no control over the band making Augeri the fall guy. In case you haven't read my psots tonight I've blamed everyone in the band equally. I have plenty of self respect. I don't need someone telling me I don't or questioning mine. I seriously think you need to take a rest before you get people pissed off at you for your yes I'm saying "agenda" tonight. This sin't about any of the other singers outside of Journey. This is about a band that most people here are fans of. Milli Vanilli never sang a note, it was someone else singing even on the records, much less in "concert". At least Steve A. is accused of singing to his own voice.

I defended your right to post whatever you posted as your opinions, bnut now I'm questioning my own opinion to stick up for you. You're quickly making a name for yourself as a troublemaker.

[Dano]

It's true. We're all pretty passionate about this, one way or another. We do love this band a whole lot, don't we?

Just a week or so ago, Steve Augeri was a part of that "whole". Today, he's dirt in many people's eyes. Or was he always "dirt" in their eyes anyway because he wasn't Steve Perry? Will those that disliked Augeri now flock behind Soto even though he's not Perry? If so, why?

Again, my feelings exactly. In a week, people are quick to dismiss his contributions to eight tours, two albums, one EP a live DVD....and breathing life into a band that most of us thought was dead once again when Perry left after TBF. We don't know if another singer could've done that. It's easy to say that the band could've survived and would've gone forward with another choice, but that is simply a big unknown. People embraced Augeri. Who's to say that the fans would've accepted a Hugo, or a Kevin Chalfant. There are a lot of factors that go into whether a band can survive a change in vocalist, especially one like Perry. In my opinion, I think a lot of it had to do with a factor maybe even more important than Augeri's vocals, and that was his connection and relationship with the fans. Not once since he joined the band have I ever read one fan's account of having a bad experience with meeting him. He endeared himself to the fans by being incredibly humble and gracious, and always making time for them. Something that Perry didn't do a hell of a lot of, incidentally. I've heard of more than a few negative experiences from fans on that.

So by the same token, I guess I was incorrect in saying that without him there would be no Journey at all. I just feel strongly that he was the right choice and that, given the big shoes he had to fill, he was able to accomplish something phenomenal. Genesis thought fans would take to Ray Wilson. Didn't happen. Eddie Van Halen proclaimed Gary Cherone the very last vocalist that would ever be in Van Halen. Didn't happen, and the album tanked besides. It takes a very special combination, and in my eyes, Augeri had it. It's not certain that it would've happened with anyone else in that slot. There might've been a Journey, but they might've been packed it in a long time ago. Bottom line is, one of the reasons they are on a tour with Def Leppard right now doing sold-out shows is because Steve Augeri helped them get there.

[siobhan222]

Because it was Augeri who decided to fake it. I don't care how poor he was or would have been that does not excuse it.

Now you are just talking in circles. We've answered your questions. You just don't like the anwers.

No, you still haven't answered why you blame Augeri and Augeri alone for something that they all participated in. If Augeri faked it, they all faked it. It's a band ... not one singer.

I think it's that you don't like the question nolippin.

[siobhan222]

well there ya go, you need to take your lividness somewhere else. because bitching at us because "you're Stevie" isn't in the band anymore isn't OUR fault. Don't blame us because JSS is in the band now.

Shit, leave 'em enough rope...

A. I'm not bitching.

B. I don't know that my Steve isn't in the band anymore YET. All I know officially is that he's stepped down for "a while". (I doubt that's true -- but that's the official word.)

C. What I am doing is asking why everyone blames Steve when if what they allege is true, the whole band participated. No one has attempted to answer that question except nolippin who says Steve faked it. And I've asked him again because Steve wasn't the only one who faked it, if the allegations are true.

[nolippin]

The "hardcore Augeri fanatics" can't see that they are just angry because someone took "their precious Steve" away!! They don't wan tot give JSS a chance and can't realize that they are just like the Perryheads now. They just want us all to be angry with them.

Sorry, I'm looking forward to seeing JSS lead the Journey forward!

I think you might find a few hardcore Perry fanatics more willing to give Jeff a chance.
This is owed largely to the fact that Jeff is sort of an established musician and has more of his own vocal style.
Augeri had his own vocal identity, too, but he had been retired for so long, dawdling about in obscurity.
The band didn't help matters by promulgating him as "Perry with a Perm".
They pigeon holed him in a sense.

Perhaps ... but it was actually the other "new guy" Deen who made that Perry with a Perm comment on the BTM. Funny, huh?

Actually, in my humble opinion, if hardcore Perry fanatics give Jeff a chance, it will just be because Augeri is gone. They hated Augeri for taking "their precious Steve's" role. They had a lot of hard feelings about it. They couldn't back down from that position over these last 8 years even if they wanted to. They would have looked like hypocrites. 8 years later, they're missing being Journey fans -- and this provides them with an excuse.

And you know what? I can actually relate to that. When I got to that show Monday expecting Augeri and Jeff walked out, I hated him immediately because he wasn't "my precious Steve". I have hard feelings about it. As time has gone on, my hard feelings are being directed more and more at Neal. But on Monday night, when I was clueless, all I saw was another guy doing what the guy I came to see should have been doing. And I was livid.

well there ya go, you need to take your lividness somewhere else. because bitching at us because "you're Stevie" isn't in the band anymore isn't OUR fault. Don't blame us because JSS is in the band now.

Shit, leave 'em enough rope...

[The_Noble_Cause]

Eddie Van Halen proclaimed Gary Cherone the very last vocalist that would ever be in Van Halen. Didn't happen, and the album tanked besides. It takes a very special combination, and in my eyes, Augeri had it.

If your going by album sales, then no, he most certainly did not.
While I love Arrival, Red 13, and Generations, I actually believe the Cherone fronted Van Halen III album sold more than either.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Bottom line is, one of the reasons they are on a tour with Def Leppard right now doing sold-out shows is because Steve Augeri helped them get there.

You're certainly entitled to that opinion. I believe Journey is a success owing primarily to their vast catalog of great song. Doesn't matter who's singing them, as long as he sounds enough like Perry to pull it off.

[The_Noble_Cause]

What I am doing is asking why everyone blames Steve.

Honestly?
The other guys are just too damn talented to hate.

[whocares]

If you didn't see ANY posts where I blamed EVERYONE including management, then you've spent too much time typing out overly long posts, and expressing how you are "livid" that Augeri isn't in the band anymore on stage now or who knows, maybe permanently, than reading posts. I'm not Livid that Perry isnt' in the band anymore. Frankly I'm glad he got out when he did. AND I'm a HUGE Perry fan. BUT I gave S.A. a chance and the WHOLE band blew it for me, even before this crap happened. I didn't get it anymore, they were trying too hard to be Journey with Perry still, and they weren't

AS I SAID earlier in the day, SOME people won't agree no matter what, and will never see why anyone feels the way they do, Some because they are shortsighted, and some just to cause problems.

Seriously, you need to read other posts somtimes, before you make comebacks and accuse people of NOT accusing the whole band of de-frauding people. This is a serious issue for Fans of the band, no matter where you lie in all of it.

[siobhan222]

The "hardcore Augeri fanatics" can't see that they are just angry because someone took "their precious Steve" away!! They don't wan tot give JSS a chance and can't realize that they are just like the Perryheads now. They just want us all to be angry with them.

You're absolutely right here nolippin. That is exactly how I felt on Monday night and I wholeheartedly admit it. I also realized I was being a hypocrite because I had told friends of mine who were "hardcore Perry fanatics" to give Steve Augeri a chance.

There is a slight difference though. Perry left the band hanging for a couple of years right after a pretty successful album. Music was changing and to stay "in the scene", they needed to promote that album. I never thought I'd accept Journey without Perry. But when I heard what happened, I wanted to give Augeri a chance. Speaking here as a self admitted former hardcore Perry fanatic and now a hardcore Augeri fanatic, I just feel this was all handled in an underhanded way. If, prior to the tour, Journey had told me that Steve's voice was shot and he needed time off and they were going forward with a new singer, I wouldn't have felt so upset. This could have been done a whole lot differently -- not just by Augeri -- but by the whole band.

Sorry, I'm looking forward to seeing JSS lead the Journey forward!

I'm glad that you are. From what I gather, you didn't care for Augeri in the first place. I really hope you like the new lineup and that it works for you with Jeff.

All I'm asking is that if you're going to sling hash at Augeri, try to look at the fact that the whole band must have participated in the fraud you allege in order for it to happen. If it happened, it wasn't just Augeri.

[siobhan222]

What I am doing is asking why everyone blames Steve.

Honestly?
The other guys are just too damn talented to hate.

Fair enough. Do you not think Augeri was ever talented then?

[Dano]

Eddie Van Halen proclaimed Gary Cherone the very last vocalist that would ever be in Van Halen. Didn't happen, and the album tanked besides. It takes a very special combination, and in my eyes, Augeri had it.

If your going by album sales, then no, he most certainly did not.
While I love Arrival, Red 13, and Generations, I actually believe the Cherone fronted Van Halen III album sold more than either.

Not only by album sales, but with fan acceptance as a whole. That's where I think there was the magic combination with Augeri. Even if he sounded exactly like Perry and looked exactly like Perry, I don't think that would've been any guarantee that fans would've taken to him. He is really a prince of a guy and really reached out to the fans. I'm not saying Cherone didn't with VH (and incidentally, I'm a huge fan of his as well), but everything seemed to align with Augeri. With how beloved Perry was, I was pretty worried about it at the time-whether the fans were going to give him a shot or not. Let's not forget that this was around the time of Cherone's time in VH and not too long after Wilson's in Genesis. New singers were not faring too well at the time. LOL.

You're right about the sales of VH III, though. I know that it at least went Gold. Arrival topped out at around 300,000 or so, if memory serves. Actually, for any other band of their ilk (Styx, REO, etc), that number would've been a huge success. Coming off of a Platinum disc like TBF, it looked like a complete flop.

[whocares]

I never felt Perry intended to tour, no matter how much money could be made. but that's just my opinion.

[Dano]

Bottom line is, one of the reasons they are on a tour with Def Leppard right now doing sold-out shows is because Steve Augeri helped them get there.

You're certainly entitled to that opinion. I believe Journey is a success owing primarily to their vast catalog of great song. Doesn't matter who's singing them, as long as he sounds enough like Perry to pull it off.

Fair enough. I can certainly see your point.

[Dano]

What I am doing is asking why everyone blames Steve.

Honestly?
The other guys are just too damn talented to hate.

ROTFLMAO!! Well, there's an honest answer, for sure.

Damn, that was funny!

[The_Noble_Cause]

Fair enough. Do you not think Augeri was ever talented then?

Don't jam words down my throat please.
Love Tall Stories, enjoy his work with Tyketto....why do I even need to rattle this laundry list off?
I am an Augeri fan - take me at my word or don't.

I like most of everything Steve's been involved in.
Hate his solo writing credit "Believe" though.
Total crap!

[nolippin]

No, what you're asking is for the rest of us to hate the band as it is as much as you do, and most of us just want to move on.

The "hardcore Augeri fanatics" can't see that they are just angry because someone took "their precious Steve" away!! They don't wan tot give JSS a chance and can't realize that they are just like the Perryheads now. They just want us all to be angry with them.

You're absolutely right here nolippin. That is exactly how I felt on Monday night and I wholeheartedly admit it. I also realized I was being a hypocrite because I had told friends of mine who were "hardcore Perry fanatics" to give Steve Augeri a chance.

There is a slight difference though. Perry left the band hanging for a couple of years right after a pretty successful album. Music was changing and to stay "in the scene", they needed to promote that album. I never thought I'd accept Journey without Perry. But when I heard what happened, I wanted to give Augeri a chance. Speaking here as a self admitted former hardcore Perry fanatic and now a hardcore Augeri fanatic, I just feel this was all handled in an underhanded way. If, prior to the tour, Journey had told me that Steve's voice was shot and he needed time off and they were going forward with a new singer, I wouldn't have felt so upset. This could have been done a whole lot differently -- not just by Augeri -- but by the whole band.

Sorry, I'm looking forward to seeing JSS lead the Journey forward!

I'm glad that you are. From what I gather, you didn't care for Augeri in the first place. I really hope you like the new lineup and that it works for you with Jeff.

All I'm asking is that if you're going to sling hash at Augeri, try to look at the fact that the whole band must have participated in the fraud you allege in order for it to happen. If it happened, it wasn't just Augeri.