Journey Predictions III

[Monker]

You're the one who said you didn't even bother expressing your thoughts on "Generations".

That is NOT what I said. I said, "Back then I even said that if I posted my thoughts on the album I'd take shit from this forum, so why bother?"

That IS what I said back then. I did NOT say I didn't post my thoughts on Generations...

Prove it. All you do is spout crap.

And, all you do is lie and twist the truth.

On a related note, I'm still waiting for you to back up your claims that JSS is a heavy metal singer and will inevitably turn Journey into GWAR.

Why should I when all you do is demand that I answer this and that and surrounded it with insults? I feel no motivation AT ALL to do it. You're just a peon like everybody else here so why should I bow to you when you ask in the way that you do? The only reply you are going to get from me is, "fuck off and quit lying".

[Monker]

I'm not sure that it is a good analogy. There wasn't a market for Rockabilly in the 1980s. Aside from a couple of hit singles by The Stray Cats, it was largely a forgotten genre. Whereas there is a huge audience for 70s/80s classic rock/AOR now. Look at the current US Top Twenty re: Box Office Receipts - DL/Journey are at Number 11...CSNY at Number 5...and so on.

That is not the comparison.

Wether you want to admit it or not, melodic rock is no where near as popular as it was in 198x. Rockabilly wasn't as popular as it was in the 1950's. NEITHER were/are 'major league'. That is all, simple...not over-analyzed and complicated.

[Matthew]

I'm not sure that it is a good analogy. There wasn't a market for Rockabilly in the 1980s. Aside from a couple of hit singles by The Stray Cats, it was largely a forgotten genre. Whereas there is a huge audience for 70s/80s classic rock/AOR now. Look at the current US Top Twenty re: Box Office Receipts - DL/Journey are at Number 11...CSNY at Number 5...and so on.

That is not the comparison.

Wether you want to admit it or not, melodic rock is no where near as popular as it was in 198x. Rockabilly wasn't as popular as it was in the 1950's. NEITHER were/are 'major league'. That is all, simple...not over-analyzed and complicated.

No - of course melodic rock isn't as popular as it was in the 1980s. But how are you judging what "major league " is now? By tour revenues? If so, the current chart suggests that melodic rock still has a big audience. Album sales? When Bon Jovi released an album in 2001 it sold 7.5 million...U2 are as big as ever....and so on. So I'd argue that even though the melodic rock genre has declined it still has some major league acts.

Are Journey major league? In terms of ongoing back catalogue sales and classic rock radio play they are...but yes...as a band releasing new material they did drift down into the minor league during the Augeri era.

[Wheels Of Fyre]

I'm not sure that it is a good analogy. There wasn't a market for Rockabilly in the 1980s. Aside from a couple of hit singles by The Stray Cats, it was largely a forgotten genre. Whereas there is a huge audience for 70s/80s classic rock/AOR now. Look at the current US Top Twenty re: Box Office Receipts - DL/Journey are at Number 11...CSNY at Number 5...and so on.

Also - it seems that this music with its "old audience and old stars" is finding a new generation of fans. Take for example the success of "Don't Stop Believin'" last year (it hit the Download Top Ten) after it was featured in the OC (and one other teen-orientated show). Or look at the recent posts from members of this site who are under twenty. Or the MTV thread...

You say "Latin rhythms are timeless and classy". Sure - but I believe that rock music can also be timeless and classy. And what evidence is there to suggest that Latin music is more popular with "the kids" than melodic rock is?

Your point regarding Rockabilly is taken however you're making my point, too! YES-DSB has had some popularity as of late BUT IT'S OLD! It's been featured as has Only The Young NOT for being fresh, new, and exciting but rather as something nostalgic a la Happy Days! Sure, JOURNEY has some younger fans - SOME - but some younger fans mixed in with the majority of older, living-in-the-past fans isn't what's going to launch JOURNEY.

As for Latin music vs. rock music I haven't done enough research to say with 100% accuracy but at first blush the stats indicate that Latin music sales and interest is much higher than melodic rock.

[brandonx76]

As for Latin music vs. rock music I haven't done enough research to say with 100% accuracy but at first blush the stats indicate that Latin music sales and interest is much higher than melodic rock.

Yuck...if Journey goes this route, it better be heavy...I just don't see it without Rolie...I did really like "La Raza" though...

[Red13JoePa]

Back then I even said that if I posted my thoughts on the album I'd take shit from this forum, so why bother?

Jeremy gave a fairly scathing review of Generations.
Mine wasn't exactly sunshine n' rainbows, either.
Neither was Andrews.

Andrew gave it a 91 on a 100 scale. Seems like a very good endorsement to me.

[NealIsGod]

Back then I even said that if I posted my thoughts on the album I'd take shit from this forum, so why bother?

Jeremy gave a fairly scathing review of Generations.
Mine wasn't exactly sunshine n' rainbows, either.
Neither was Andrews.

Andrew gave it a 91 on a 100 scale. Seems like a very good endorsement to me.

You and I would fail at Revisionist History, 13. But TNC would get an A+

[The_Noble_Cause]

Andrew gave it a 91 on a 100 scale. Seems like a very good endorsement to me.

Not really when you compare it to his beaming reviews for "Trial By Fire" and "Arrival".
He re-iterated his ambivalent thoughts on the album during his year end wrap up saying, "...coming into 2005 there was one clear favourite that could and probably should have been Album Of The Year."
In other words, the album missed the mark.

I honestly think his 91% review was being charitable to the guys.

It's also worth noting that he, like most sane-minded people , is also no fan of "Believe".

[Clasicrockldy]

That's a great analogy. I love melodic rock but the reality is that it's "old." It has an old audience and old stars. This is why I've been pleading for a Latin rhythm flavored album. Latin rhythms are timeless and classy. JOURNEY could bring something truly unique to it. Popular shows like "So You Think You Can Dance" and "American Idol" have proven that America is more diverse in their tastes than just Rock and Roll.

Here I disagree with you, Fyre. Teenagers today are listening to the Classic rock that their parents listened to when their parents were teens, or Adults in my case. Teens today, most of them anyway, know what good music is from the shit that is out there now, and they are turning to Classic Rock. Even my 10 and 20 year old girls love Classic Rock.

"American Idol" may be to you, shows that America is diverse in their tastes in music. But I believe that it is a small fraction of what America wants.

Teens are going to the Classic Rock music because it has substance, meaning, etc. While what is called music today turns them off.

[The_Noble_Cause]

You and I would fail at Revisionist History, 13. But TNC would get an A+

Hi AugeriISGod.
Still deceitfully carrying water for Neal and the boys, eh?
If you had been paying attention you would have noticed that Andrew found several shortcomings with the record.

"Generations was a mixed album recorded in a short time frame that featured a very rough production sound."

"a long way sonically from it's predecessor Arrival."

"There are some great songs on Generations, but the inclusion of a few average tracks knocked the life out of it..."

" an album struggling to find a direction.."

"It should have been a classic - it wasn't, but it still features some classic tracks"

[The_Noble_Cause]

You're the one who said you didn't even bother expressing your thoughts on "Generations".

That is NOT what I said. I said, "Back then I even said that if I posted my thoughts on the album I'd take shit from this forum, so why bother?"

So did you bother expressing your thoughts on the album or didn't you?
I found a Generations review thread of yours that would attest otherwise.
While I know you're an fervent practioneer of bisexuality, in this case, you simply cannot have it both ways.
Sorry.

And, all you do is lie and twist the truth

It's not my fault you entangle yourself in your own web of spin.

Why should I when all you do is demand that I answer this and that and surrounded it with insults? I feel no motivation AT ALL to do it. You're just a peon like everybody else here so why should I bow to you when you ask in the way that you do? The only reply you are going to get from me is, "fuck off and quit lying".

You shouldn't feel like like you're "bowing down" to corroborate your statements.
I sure don't.
Everyone here should be perfectly capable of doing that BEFORE they choose to post them.
From here on out, quit being a pathalogical liar and maybe you won't constantly find yourself in this dilemma.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Not kissing JSS's ass does not equate to kissing Augeri's.

No, but continuously denigrating JSS's ass does.
You have been poo-pooing his inclusion from the moment it was announced.
Like a spurned lover, you are peeved that Augeri has been given his walking papers, and are now making sure everyone here feels your scorn.

[Citygirl]

Monker and TNC are becoming more colourful than Deano.

[Red13JoePa]

Andrew gave it a 91 on a 100 scale. Seems like a very good endorsement to me.

Not really when you compare it to his beaming reviews for "Trial By Fire" and "Arrival".
He re-iterated his ambivalent thoughts on the album during his year end wrap up saying, "...coming into 2005 there was one clear favourite that could and probably should have been Album Of The Year."
In other words, the album missed the mark.

I honestly think his 91% review was being charitable to the guys.

It's also worth noting that he, like most sane-minded people , is also no fan of "Believe".

Sanity's not something I'm often accused of having, so I'll plead guilty on that. But I don't think 'Drews' 91 on Gens was inflated....he thought it rated a 91.

[The_Noble_Cause]

LOL! YOU are the one who posted the Stones, Aerosmith, etc.

Yes, with the accompanying qualifier of "rock's select elite".
So few bands still manage to pull in that kind of business that its not even worth discussing.
Journey tours quite well, and for any singer looking for their big break would still be considered "big leagues".

Log off Beastiality.com, squeegee the cum off your monitor, and go re-join the real world.

[Wheels Of Fyre]

That's a great analogy. I love melodic rock but the reality is that it's "old." It has an old audience and old stars. This is why I've been pleading for a Latin rhythm flavored album. Latin rhythms are timeless and classy. JOURNEY could bring something truly unique to it. Popular shows like "So You Think You Can Dance" and "American Idol" have proven that America is more diverse in their tastes than just Rock and Roll.

Here I disagree with you, Fyre. Teenagers today are listening to the Classic rock that their parents listened to when their parents were teens, or Adults in my case. Teens today, most of them anyway, know what good music is from the shit that is out there now, and they are turning to Classic Rock. Even my 10 and 20 year old girls love Classic Rock.

"American Idol" may be to you, shows that America is diverse in their tastes in music. But I believe that it is a small fraction of what America wants.

Teens are going to the Classic Rock music because it has substance, meaning, etc. While what is called music today turns them off.

I did the same when I was a kid. I listened to Same Cooke, Neil Sedaka, The Drifters, The Coasters, 50's artists, Motown artists, etc. That's what I grew up with but I was an exception to the case. I was laughed at and highly ridiculed by the vast majority of other kids that were into the more current artists. I think the kids today who listen to Classic Rock are maybe not as ridiculed but are still a smaller, more exceptional group.

Teens may be going to the Classic Rock music as you say. Record sales of Classic Rock seem to support that. This is why I continue to plead for something different. JOURNEY with Steve Perry is considered Classic Rock. JOURNEY as it is now and previously with SA is NOT. No one is running to the stores to buy TBF, Arrival, Red 13 or Generations because it's Classic Rock.

[KCfla]

That's a great analogy. I love melodic rock but the reality is that it's "old." It has an old audience and old stars. This is why I've been pleading for a Latin rhythm flavored album. Latin rhythms are timeless and classy. JOURNEY could bring something truly unique to it. Popular shows like "So You Think You Can Dance" and "American Idol" have proven that America is more diverse in their tastes than just Rock and Roll.

Here I disagree with you, Fyre. Teenagers today are listening to the Classic rock that their parents listened to when their parents were teens, or Adults in my case. Teens today, most of them anyway, know what good music is from the shit that is out there now, and they are turning to Classic Rock. Even my 10 and 20 year old girls love Classic Rock.

"American Idol" may be to you, shows that America is diverse in their tastes in music. But I believe that it is a small fraction of what America wants.

Teens are going to the Classic Rock music because it has substance, meaning, etc. While what is called music today turns them off.

I don't normally jump into these kinds of threads but......

I have to agree with Lady here- and my reasons are as follows:

1- I have 2 teenagers. And while they do have their own bands they listen to, they are just as much likely to be listening to MY CD's. My Daughter's iPod has as many of my CD's on it has hers. They both went to the Journey/DL concert with me, and LOVED it! As a matter of fact- they were given a choice ( as I am not made of money here!)
Journey/DL or one of the concerts with the "new" bands my kids like. Journey/DL won without any question/arguments!

2- I am known to wear my concert T-shirts when not at work. When out on those "mommy" errands that fill my life, I often get comments, thumbs-up's, etc from people. In the last 2(ish) years, the age of said commenter's has gone from those in their 30's/40's to teenagers! As a matter of fact, the last 10 or so have ALL been teens! My kids have also said that if you looked at the concert T's that kids in Jr. & Sr. HS are wearing, the VAST MAJORITY are of "Classic Rock" bands. Now- I know!- They sell those shirts in dept. stores now ( at least some of them) But I ask you all- would any teen you know get caught DEAD wearing a band shirt if they didn't like the band?
Would you have done? Would you now?

Nope- don't think so!

Off my soapbox now

[Greg]

I'm not sure that it is a good analogy. There wasn't a market for Rockabilly in the 1980s. Aside from a couple of hit singles by The Stray Cats, it was largely a forgotten genre. Whereas there is a huge audience for 70s/80s classic rock/AOR now. Look at the current US Top Twenty re: Box Office Receipts - DL/Journey are at Number 11...CSNY at Number 5...and so on.

That is not the comparison.

Wether you want to admit it or not, melodic rock is no where near as popular as it was in 198x. Rockabilly wasn't as popular as it was in the 1950's. NEITHER were/are 'major league'. That is all, simple...not over-analyzed and complicated.

I think the only difference now is the fact that radio isn't a powerful media to push music genres.....at least not "free" radio. More and more people are turning to XM-Radio or SIRUS radio and listening to their favorite genre and not having to be forced to listen to Britney Spears or Usher 24-7. With that said, I believe that could be the driving force in leveling the playing field amongst the different genres of music. I could be completely wrong, but if I have XM-Radio, I'm probably going to be listening to hard rock or 80's channels more than "today's" hits.

[Greg]

What I am also discovering is that some of the popular free radio stations in my area are switching to a true mix format.....which means they play anything and I mean anything. 70's, 80's, 90's, today's stuff, and even country in with it as well. This also helps to level the playing field amongst music genres, and exposes younger listeners to bands like Journey, Styx, Boston, etc....while allowing them to listen to their EMO stuff or whatever it is.

[SteveForever]

What I am also discovering is that some of the popular free radio stations in my area are switching to a true mix format.....which means they play anything and I mean anything. 70's, 80's, 90's, today's stuff, and even country in with it as well. This also helps to level the playing field amongst music genres, and exposes younger listeners to bands like Journey, Styx, Boston, etc....while allowing them to listen to their EMO stuff or whatever it is.

The radio stations are doing that where I live too, lots of mix and the younger crowd gets to hear it all. My teenager is in one of the Paul Green rock schools and they are doing nothing but the 70's and 80's classics for their practices and concerts. Kids are plugged in non-stop, either to a laptop or an ipod, they are constantly exposed to music and media....

[yogi]

But is it Journey or is it MEMORIX???????????????????????????

[The_Noble_Cause]

But is it Journey or is it MEMORIX???????????????????????????

For the moment it's live.
If and when Jeff has problems he'll hopefully have enough class to step down.

[yogi]

But will Neal, Jonathan & Ross let him???

Can a Private tell a General that 'we must retreat'????

[The_Noble_Cause]

But will Neal, Jonathan & Ross let him????????????????????????????

If they try to cajole him into lipping I'd imagine his response would go something along the lines of, "Go fuck yourselves".
The trick is not to even get started down the slippery slope.
Augeri first began to use tapes for high notes and soon enough was lipping to WHOLE songs.

[yogi]

How about Jonathan memorixing Feeling That Way & Anytime???

The LEADERS of this ONCE GREAT band ought to be ashamed of themselves!!!!

I blame Them & Them ALONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[NealIsGod]

[Carlitto H@kk]

But will Neal, Jonathan & Ross let him????????????????????????????

If they try to cajole him into lipping I'd imagine his response would go something along the lines of, "Go fuck yourselves".
The trick is not to even get started down the slippery slope.
Augeri first began to use tapes for high notes and soon enough was lipping to WHOLE songs.

I agree with you TNC, Jeff would NEVER stoop to that. He would just as soon walk away from the biz if his voice was shot than try to "Mimic" things. I think the good thing about Jeff is that he knows his abilities and limitations and, because he is still a BIG fan of some of the greats (Perry, Mercury, Cooke), he tries harder than most to to keep his instrument in shape and constantly adjusts his styles to match those abilities and limitations. I'm not saying Augeri is a bad person for getting involved with tapes; I think, like you said, it start out like any other bad habit; alittle here, alittle there and then next thing you know you're doing it all the time. I think age just caught up with him, his abilities started to erode a bit and he didn't adjust; he kept trying to do things he couldn't and that hurt him even more.

[Carlitto H@kk]

But will Neal, Jonathan & Ross let him???

Can a Private tell a General that 'we must retreat'????

No, but if a General tells this lowly E-7 to "go into that little town and rape any chick I want", I can tactfully tell him to "Go Fucka Goat!" If its illegal, immoral or just plain stupid and dangerous, you always can raise the BS flag!

[The_Noble_Cause]

The LEADERS of this ONCE GREAT band ought to be ashamed of themselves!!!!

I blame Them & Them ALONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You're 100% correct and perfectly entitled to feel this way.
Jeff's inclusion has slightly redeemed the band in my eyes.
However, for some, that (understandably) may not be good enough.

[Carlitto H@kk]

The LEADERS of this ONCE GREAT band ought to be ashamed of themselves!!!!

I blame Them & Them ALONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You're 100% correct and perfectly entitled to feel this way.
Jeff's inclusion has slightly redeemed the band in my eyes.
However, for some, that (understandably) may not be good enough.

It's going to take some time, just like it did for fans to warm up to Augeri when the band went on w/o Perry. I think that, with this tour and a solid album of material with JSS, by the time Journey hits the road again a lot of these same fans will come around and be happy with this version of the band.