Is there a boot of the Bill Graham tribute ?

[Saint John]

The Stones and The Who are not what they once were 25 years ago either.

And, Journey isn't the Stones or the Who...not even close. Journey are not, never were, and never will be, rock icons.

Whether you like it or not, the FACT is that Journey continued on without Perry...and still are continuing on without him. The people who keep going back to see Journey perform don't seem to mind that Perry isn't there.

While they might not "mind" Perry isn't there, they realize there's nothing they can do about it. Would the VAST majority PREFER he were there? Of course. I'd bet all the corn in Iowa on that one, Monker.

[Monker]

About what? Words from Herbie should be taken with a gallon shaker of salt.

It's right there for you all to hear - he DID SING IT IN A LOWER KEY. Whether you like Herbie or not - he is correct...Perry changed how those songs were sung. THAT is an undeniable fact.

[Monker]

Could Neal stood further away from Perry you could almost see the tension between them. I wonder why since this was a tribute to Billy why no Ross, or Rollie or Smith. They could of delt with each other for two songs. But anyway thanks for the link it was finally good too see after all those years.

I don't think the other guys in the band were asked to join them. Neal said in a later interview that he didn't even want it to be advertised as "Journey", even though that was the last line up (Neal, Jon, and Perry). He said, "Journey was always, myself, Jonathan, Steve AND Steve Smith, AND Ross Valory." To Neal, at the time, what performed at the Bill Graham tribute was NOT Journey.

[Saint John]

About what? Words from Herbie should be taken with a gallon shaker of salt.

It's right there for you all to hear - he DID SING IT IN A LOWER KEY. Whether you like Herbie or not - he is correct...Perry changed how those songs were sung. THAT is an undeniable fact.

So is the fact that it was a somber event. It IS possible the keys were lowered to reflect the mood. But Perry haters will NEVER see it that way.

[Monker]

How has he flip-flopped? He thinks they're past their peak as a band now and he thinks the Graham tribute was a terrible performance. Where is the relation?

Exactly right. At least on person reads what I say.

[Vladan]

The Stones and The Who are not what they once were 25 years ago either.

And, Journey isn't the Stones or the Who...not even close. Journey are not, never were, and never will be, rock icons.

But Steve Perry is, in the vocal department and showman, still classed one of the greatest singers of all time and has inspired the greats, I believe Ricky Martin was inspired by Perry, and the time he Perry was singing, who was a better vocalist?, perhaps they were close or as good, but nobody clearly better than Steve Perry.

[Enigma869]

Could Neal stood further away from Perry you could almost see the tension between them. I wonder why since this was a tribute to Billy why no Ross, or Rollie or Smith. They could of delt with each other for two songs. But anyway thanks for the link it was finally good too see after all those years.

I don't think the other guys in the band were asked to join them. Neal said in a later interview that he didn't even want it to be advertised as "Journey", even though that was the last line up (Neal, Jon, and Perry). He said, "Journey was always, myself, Jonathan, Steve AND Steve Smith, AND Ross Valory." To Neal, at the time, what performed at the Bill Graham tribute was NOT Journey.

Let us not forget that there are also many Journey fans who feel what is touring today under the Journey name isn't Journey and never will be without Perry. I'm going to go out on a limb and guess there are a whole lot more people who care more about whose voice they are listening to than who is playing bass! As great of a guitarist as I think Neal is, he sometimes says a lot of stupid shit! He's the same guy who on Behind the Music said to this day, he doesn't care for a lot of the music Journey plays, as it's not what he dreamt of playing, coming up as a guitarist. It's one thing to feel that way. It's an entirely different thing to tell your legion of fans (on tv, no less)that your heart isn't in all the music your playing (I'm paraphrasing here). Neal's response has always been "hey, Journey music pays the bills". That's all well and good, but, I think he should still remember that Journey was unheard of before Perry joined Journey, and that Perry's voice and the recognition it gave to this unknown band is the reason he is still able to make a living, playing a guitar!

John from Boston

John from Boston

[Saint John]

Could Neal stood further away from Perry you could almost see the tension between them. I wonder why since this was a tribute to Billy why no Ross, or Rollie or Smith. They could of delt with each other for two songs. But anyway thanks for the link it was finally good too see after all those years.

I don't think the other guys in the band were asked to join them. Neal said in a later interview that he didn't even want it to be advertised as "Journey", even though that was the last line up (Neal, Jon, and Perry). He said, "Journey was always, myself, Jonathan, Steve AND Steve Smith, AND Ross Valory." To Neal, at the time, what performed at the Bill Graham tribute was NOT Journey.

Let us not forget that there are also many Journey fans who feel what is touring today under the Journey name isn't Journey and never will be without Perry. I'm going to go out on a limb and guess there are a whole lot more people who care more about whose voice they are listening to than who is playing bass! As great of a guitarist as I think Neal is, he sometimes says a lot of stupid shit! He's the same guy who on Behind the Music said to this day, he doesn't care for a lot of the music Journey plays, as it's not what he dreamt of playing, coming up as a guitarist. It's one thing to feel that way. It's an entirely different thing to tell your legion of fans (on tv, no less)that your heart isn't in all the music your playing (I'm paraphrasing here). Neal's response has always been "hey, Journey music pays the bills". That's all well and good, but, I think he should still remember that Journey was unheard of before Perry joined Journey, and that Perry's voice and the recognition it gave to this unknown band is the reason he is still able to make a living, playing a guitar!

John from Boston

John from Boston

Great post. If Neal had to pay the bills with Pre-Perry money, he'd be eating government cheese. And post-Perry Journey? There would be no post-Perry had there not been a Perry-era Journey. Yeah I know, it's speculation, but that's how I feel.

[Monker]

I find it absolutely amazing that people listen to this and think the band and Perry sound good. Compare this to Lights/Stay Awhile from 1982, and the Bill Graham tribute sounds like crap, Perry sounds like crap...and, yeah, he did forget the words to "Faithfully".

The band sounds OK at best...this is Journey at their lowest point prior to TBF...and it shows to anybody who has an unbiased ear.

hey monker, i really would like to know, -- what u like, where u stand on the band,, your thoughts all wrapped up in 3 or 4 sentences,, the posts go back and forth so much , im lost to where you really are..i cant figure out if you love them , hate them ,, what year u hate/love them.,.believe tapegate,.........this clip was the last time we will see them so i really dug it,,,.......... your thoughts.................sincerly
ps- go to the booze thread , vote larry

In a few sentences? That's impossible, but here you go anyways:

I look at Journey's career as a series of "eras", each building their own section of a pyramid. One lays a foundation, then another era comes about and builds on top of that...and that new era could not exist without the prior.

The pre-Perry stage - I look at this as the band finding themselves musicaly, instrumentaly. It's not popular...it wasn't meant to be. It's the band expressing themselves with music, for their own creative release. It isn't my favorite era but, as I say above, it built a foundation for what came next.

The Infinity/Evolution/Departure era - The band took in Perry, who had as much talent vocaly as the rest of the band had with their instruments. They found a voice and had to change their songwriting to be a vocal band, instead of a band who wrote so much instrumental music. However, they kept those Progressive roots and release music that was both popular still had a somewhat Progressive feel...especialy on Infinity and Departure.

Escape/Frontier era - The one thing missing from the previous era was songwriting to equal the musicianship and vocals. The band was definitely evolving and creating more vocal oriented music...but something was still missing. Of ourse, Jonathan came in and filled that gap and everything finaly came together, the music, the vocals, and the songwriting. Along with that came the mega-popularity that we remember them for.

ROR era - IMO, the biggest mistake of this era was Perry trying to build off of his solo career and turning his back on the history of Journey. HE cracked the pyramid by taking the reins and keys to Journey. One member of the band having too much control destroys a 'band', IMO....the exact same thing happened to Styx...but that's a different pyramid.

TBF - The album was a better way to end things then ROR would have been. The tour wasn't, and I'll leave it at that.

The Augeri years - The band went back to the Escape/Frontiers era and started building from there - IMO, that was the correct choice. They moved a bit away from it with Red 13 and even further with Generations. However, they did NOT do the same with their live shows...which many fans complain about...but, I am not sure if they had much of a choice. They did the best they could with what the audience demands...a few "new" songs, a few album cuts or things like the "unplugged set".

Today, if JSS taks over, we are back to where we were at the start of the Augeri years...Everything that was built for the past 8yrs is gone and they have to start over. They have to go back to 1983 again and build something from there....They HAVE to do that because that is what the fans are familiar with....that is the sound they expect. To ignore that and go off in a completely different direction is foolish. However, at this stage of the game, I don't think it will make much difference. They are in their senior years. They are not going to be around much longer. The people who go to their shows don't care to hear NEW songs...they want the old stuff. The people who buy their NEW albums are so few that it doesn't matter what is put on them, it's not going to change how a new album is accepted. That is how I see things anyways.

[Monker]

Great post. If Neal had to pay the bills with Pre-Perry money, he'd be eating government cheese.

And, before Herbie called, Perry probably WAS eating that cheese...Well, trying to anyway, since Robyn Flanns said he was so malnourished that his teeth were falling out.

[Monker]

Let us not forget that there are also many Journey fans who feel what is touring today under the Journey name isn't Journey and never will be without Perry.

So what? Seems to me that the last 8yrs shows that those fans are pretty irrelevant.

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess there are a whole lot more people who care more about whose voice they are listening to than who is playing bass!

But, not enough people care enough to stay home to force Journey onto the Styx circuit...at least not yet.

That's all well and good, but, I think he should still remember that Journey was unheard of before Perry joined Journey, and that Perry's voice and the recognition it gave to this unknown band is the reason he is still able to make a living, playing a guitar!

Why would he want to remember something that simply isn't true?

Perry's voice isn't the only thing that brought Journey from obscurity. It was Herbie's managerment. It was the songwriting. It was the entire package...NOT just the voice, that was replaced.

And, YOU should remember that Journey wasn't hugely successful prior to Escape...The truth is that STYX was more successful the Journey at that time...after Perry had been with Journey for three albums and tours. Perry was not the magic bullet that made everything make sense.

[conversationpc]

And, YOU should remember that Journey wasn't hugely successful prior to Escape...The truth is that STYX was more successful the Journey at that time...after Perry had been with Journey for three albums and tours. Perry was not the magic bullet that made everything make sense.

Correction. They weren't MEGA successful prior to "Escape". They had platinum albums previously, which is very successful, just not compared to "Escape" and "Frontiers".

[Monker]

The Stones and The Who are not what they once were 25 years ago either.

And, Journey isn't the Stones or the Who...not even close. Journey are not, never were, and never will be, rock icons.

But Steve Perry is, in the vocal department and showman, still classed one of the greatest singers of all time and has inspired the greats, I believe Ricky Martin was inspired by Perry, and the time he Perry was singing, who was a better vocalist?, perhaps they were close or as good, but nobody clearly better than Steve Perry.

yeah, Ricky Martin is really comparable to Roger Daltry and Mick Jagger.

Perry may go down as one of the great voices of rock...But, he's not an icon like Daltry, Jaggar, Plant...These guys are more then just great singers...they were pioneers of the rock era. Perry wasn't.

[Monker]

About what? Words from Herbie should be taken with a gallon shaker of salt.

It's right there for you all to hear - he DID SING IT IN A LOWER KEY. Whether you like Herbie or not - he is correct...Perry changed how those songs were sung. THAT is an undeniable fact.

So is the fact that it was a somber event. It IS possible the keys were lowered to reflect the mood. But Perry haters will NEVER see it that way.

That's because no sane person would seeit that way, cuz it's obviously not true.

[Monker]

And, YOU should remember that Journey wasn't hugely successful prior to Escape...The truth is that STYX was more successful the Journey at that time...after Perry had been with Journey for three albums and tours. Perry was not the magic bullet that made everything make sense.

Correction. They weren't MEGA successful prior to "Escape". They had platinum albums previously, which is very successful, just not compared to "Escape" and "Frontiers".

There is no correction there. I said exactly what you said, and added the FACT that Styx was more successful then Journey at that time.

[Monker]

I find it absolutely amazing that people listen to this and think the band and Perry sound good. Compare this to Lights/Stay Awhile from 1982, and the Bill Graham tribute sounds like crap, Perry sounds like crap...and, yeah, he did forget the words to "Faithfully".

The band sounds OK at best...this is Journey at their lowest point prior to TBF...and it shows to anybody who has an unbiased ear.

hey monker, i really would like to know, -- what u like, where u stand on the band,, your thoughts all wrapped up in 3 or 4 sentences,, the posts go back and forth so much , im lost to where you really are..i cant figure out if you love them , hate them ,, what year u hate/love them.,.believe tapegate,.........this clip was the last time we will see them so i really dug it,,,.......... your thoughts.................sincerly
ps- go to the booze thread , vote larry

In a few sentences? That's impossible, but here you go anyways:

I look at Journey's career as a series of "eras", each building their own section of a pyramid. One lays a foundation, then another era comes about and builds on top of that...and that new era could not exist without the prior.

The pre-Perry stage - I look at this as the band finding themselves musicaly, instrumentaly. It's not popular...it wasn't meant to be. It's the band expressing themselves with music, for their own creative release. It isn't my favorite era but, as I say above, it built a foundation for what came next.

The Infinity/Evolution/Departure era - The band took in Perry, who had as much talent vocaly as the rest of the band had with their instruments. They found a voice and had to change their songwriting to be a vocal band, instead of a band who wrote so much instrumental music. However, they kept those Progressive roots and release music that was both popular still had a somewhat Progressive feel...especialy on Infinity and Departure.

Escape/Frontier era - The one thing missing from the previous era was songwriting to equal the musicianship and vocals. The band was definitely evolving and creating more vocal oriented music...but something was still missing. Of ourse, Jonathan came in and filled that gap and everything finaly came together, the music, the vocals, and the songwriting. Along with that came the mega-popularity that we remember them for.

ROR era - IMO, the biggest mistake of this era was Perry trying to build off of his solo career and turning his back on the history of Journey. HE cracked the pyramid by taking the reins and keys to Journey. One member of the band having too much control destroys a 'band', IMO....the exact same thing happened to Styx...but that's a different pyramid.

TBF - The album was a better way to end things then ROR would have been. The tour wasn't, and I'll leave it at that.

The Augeri years - The band went back to the Escape/Frontiers era and started building from there - IMO, that was the correct choice. They moved a bit away from it with Red 13 and even further with Generations. However, they did NOT do the same with their live shows...which many fans complain about...but, I am not sure if they had much of a choice. They did the best they could with what the audience demands...a few "new" songs, a few album cuts or things like the "unplugged set".

Today, if JSS taks over, we are back to where we were at the start of the Augeri years...Everything that was built for the past 8yrs is gone and they have to start over. They have to go back to 1983 again and build something from there....They HAVE to do that because that is what the fans are familiar with....that is the sound they expect. To ignore that and go off in a completely different direction is foolish. However, at this stage of the game, I don't think it will make much difference. They are in their senior years. They are not going to be around much longer. The people who go to their shows don't care to hear NEW songs...they want the old stuff. The people who buy their NEW albums are so few that it doesn't matter what is put on them, it's not going to change how a new album is accepted. That is how I see things anyways.

[RedWingFan]

I find it absolutely amazing that people listen to this and think the band and Perry sound good. Compare this to Lights/Stay Awhile from 1982, and the Bill Graham tribute sounds like crap, Perry sounds like crap...and, yeah, he did forget the words to "Faithfully".

The band sounds OK at best...this is Journey at their lowest point prior to TBF...and it shows to anybody who has an unbiased ear.

hey monker, i really would like to know, -- what u like, where u stand on the band,, your thoughts all wrapped up in 3 or 4 sentences,, the posts go back and forth so much , im lost to where you really are..i cant figure out if you love them , hate them ,, what year u hate/love them.,.believe tapegate,.........this clip was the last time we will see them so i really dug it,,,.......... your thoughts.................sincerly
ps- go to the booze thread , vote larry

The people who go to their shows don't care to hear NEW songs...they want the old stuff. The people who buy their NEW albums are so few that it doesn't matter what is put on them, it's not going to change how a new album is accepted. That is how I see things anyways.

This is so true it's sad, I can't stand that about concerts nowadays. Just a bunch of traveling jukeboxes.

[Enigma869]

Let us not forget that there are also many Journey fans who feel what is touring today under the Journey name isn't Journey and never will be without Perry.

So what? Seems to me that the last 8yrs shows that those fans are pretty irrelevant.

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess there are a whole lot more people who care more about whose voice they are listening to than who is playing bass!

But, not enough people care enough to stay home to force Journey onto the Styx circuit...at least not yet.

That's all well and good, but, I think he should still remember that Journey was unheard of before Perry joined Journey, and that Perry's voice and the recognition it gave to this unknown band is the reason he is still able to make a living, playing a guitar!

Why would he want to remember something that simply isn't true?

Perry's voice isn't the only thing that brought Journey from obscurity. It was Herbie's managerment. It was the songwriting. It was the entire package...NOT just the voice, that was replaced.

And, YOU should remember that Journey wasn't hugely successful prior to Escape...The truth is that STYX was more successful the Journey at that time...after Perry had been with Journey for three albums and tours. Perry was not the magic bullet that made everything make sense.

I definitely agree with you that Herbie was THE reason Perry was brought into the band. That said, Herbie didn't give Perry his singing ability, and therefore, I'm not giving Herbie the credit for it (not the mention, I think Herbie is a jackass). I know Herbie likes to tell anyone who will listen to him that he's the reason Neal knows how to play guitar and he's the reason that Perry is Perry. There are just many of us who simply think Herbie is nothing more than a windbag who likes to hear himself talk! I also agree with your point that Jonathan Cain was a HUGE reason for the commercial success of Journey. His songwriting was unmatched. That said, Perry co-wrote most of Journey's hits with him. We'll agree to disagree on the point that Perry wasn't the "magic bullet". I think the evidence speaks for itself. You may be a more "cerebral" music fan than most, in terms of you may identify more with the instruments (you alluded to the fact that you were one of the 10 people listening to Journey when they were a jam band) being played. I think most fans will always identify more with the voice they're listening to. Nobody ever seems to care who is playing guitar or drumming for Springsteen!

John from Boston

[Chakra]

The Stones and The Who are not what they once were 25 years ago either.

And, Journey isn't the Stones or the Who...not even close. Journey are not, never were, and never will be, rock icons.

But Steve Perry is, in the vocal department and showman, still classed one of the greatest singers of all time and has inspired the greats, I believe Ricky Martin was inspired by Perry, and the time he Perry was singing, who was a better vocalist?, perhaps they were close or as good, but nobody clearly better than Steve Perry.

No one better then or now! Oooops, I forgot, Mick Jagger. He can hit those high notes like an opera singer! LOL

[Chakra]

The Stones and The Who are not what they once were 25 years ago either.

And, Journey isn't the Stones or the Who...not even close. Journey are not, never were, and never will be, rock icons.

Whether you like it or not, the FACT is that Journey continued on without Perry...and still are continuing on without him. The people who keep going back to see Journey perform don't seem to mind that Perry isn't there.

While they might not "mind" Perry isn't there, they realize there's nothing they can do about it. Would the VAST majority PREFER he were there? Of course. I'd bet all the corn in Iowa on that one, Monker.

And I would bet all the stars in Hollywood!

[Monker]

The Stones and The Who are not what they once were 25 years ago either.

And, Journey isn't the Stones or the Who...not even close. Journey are not, never were, and never will be, rock icons.

Whether you like it or not, the FACT is that Journey continued on without Perry...and still are continuing on without him. The people who keep going back to see Journey perform don't seem to mind that Perry isn't there.

While they might not "mind" Perry isn't there, they realize there's nothing they can do about it. Would the VAST majority PREFER he were there? Of course. I'd bet all the corn in Iowa on that one, Monker.

And, THAT is where you enter the land of OPINION.

The FACT is people still go to concerts whether Perry is there or not...and it has been like that since Vactation's Over.

[Vladan]

The Stones and The Who are not what they once were 25 years ago either.

And, Journey isn't the Stones or the Who...not even close. Journey are not, never were, and never will be, rock icons.

Whether you like it or not, the FACT is that Journey continued on without Perry...and still are continuing on without him. The people who keep going back to see Journey perform don't seem to mind that Perry isn't there.

While they might not "mind" Perry isn't there, they realize there's nothing they can do about it. Would the VAST majority PREFER he were there? Of course. I'd bet all the corn in Iowa on that one, Monker.

And, THAT is where you enter the land of OPINION.

The FACT is people still go to concerts whether Perry is there or not...and it has been like that since Vactation's Over.

Well, going to concerts is fun. I went to a concert the other night, watched a bunch of gigs - did not even know who they were! watched them anyway, there was booze ofcourse, and women - the music? well didn't listen to it much

[Monker]

Well, going to concerts is fun. I went to a concert the other night, watched a bunch of gigs - did not even know who they were! watched them anyway, there was booze ofcourse, and women - the music? well didn't listen to it much

Yeah, but I bet you didn't spend $75/ticket. Maybe that was the bill for your drinks, though.

Point is, people don't spend that kinda money with the nonchalant attitude you describe above.

[A Fire Inside]

And by the way AFI, I don't think it was sad or awful that Perry decided to surprise some fans, I thought it was pretty f***ing cool! Even if I wasn't one of them, I'd still think the same.

I think it was nice of him, too... did I sound like I thought it was awful? I didn't mean to if so. Wish I'd been there too.

[A Fire Inside]

While they might not "mind" Perry isn't there, they realize there's nothing they can do about it. Would the VAST majority PREFER he were there? Of course. I'd bet all the corn in Iowa on that one, Monker.

Well, too bad all the preferring and wishing ain't gonna do much good... Perry is done with Journey.

[ddregs]

Read a lot of comments here, and totally agree with Monker on everything.
I'll add to the chart that inspiring an artist like Ricky Martin is more bad than good, that ROR was more a follow-up to Street Talk and not to the quality level of the previous Journey records (but this will always remain My Opinion), and that thinking to Perry next to Jagger/Daltrey/Gillan/Plant and the other rock icons makes me laugh. After all, we're talking about singers who are out doing their stuff for more than 30-40 years, compared to Perry who lasted 10 years (and did exceptional things in that time frame).
The point of all is I really don't care where Perry is nor what Perry could add to the Journey chart today.
Are we all blind? He said "I really never felt part of the band" in that VH1 music tribute to Journey. So why bother again? Better leave things as they are, here's hoping in an european tour after being let down by Perry in 1997.

[Matthew]

Hmm, no, it seems to me the "largest" fanbase is the Perry-with-Journey crowd, not Perry solo or Journey today. Just read their Myspace comments... "get Perry back"... there are more classic Journey fans than Perry alone. I also do not think that the handful of Perry boards surpasses the membership of this forum and BT, they are probably comparable at best.

I wasn't comparing Perry solo with Journey. I was talking about Steve Perry fans - the die-hards who love anything with the Voice on it.

BT isn't an accurate reflection of the fanbase because most "Perry Onlies" have been banned. Also - the membership of MelodicRock is made up of fans of AOR music in general - even though the Journey messageboard is the most popular one.

So let's take the Yahoo groups as a barometer. The Steve Perry Group has far the biggest membership and is a high volume board. Whereas the three main Journey boards have tiny memberships - and people rarely post on any of them.

Nothing really, but if it can be said that Augeri sounds fine in the studio but crappy live, it's possible that Perry has "fixed" his voice up a bit in studio to sound his best.

This could be said about every singer who has ever recorded an album. Plus - you dodged my point that Perry hasn't disguised the changes in his voice on the studio recordings since 1981.

Actually, you can't know that for sure. I'm not guessing he DID, but you still can't say he didn't.

Perry is innocent until proven guilty. No-one has made any allegations against Perry for deceiving his fans. There is no evidence that he has. So I can say he didn't.

After long, hard thinking and changing his mind several times, I'd bet.

The decision making process is irrelevant. The fact is he made the decision to sing in public - regardless of any harsh words that followed.

Yeah, I do, I love him for his music and voice. His character, however, is a completely different story.

This judgemental attitude toward Perry's 'character' seems strange to me. First - haven't we all behaved in an egotistical and controlling way at some point in our lives? Is there is possibility that critics of Perry are being a little self-righteous and hypocritical?

Also - Perry's 'character' was a key reason why Journey succeeded in the first place. Do you really think Journey would have become the number one band in America in the early/mid 1980s had Perry been an unassuming, affable guy like the '"humble" and "gracious" Augeri?

Sure, Perry has been difficult, stubborn, self-centred...but which rock star hasn't?

We could judge Neal Schon too - and go on about his greed, his emotional immaturity, his terrible business sense, his small-minded resentments, his aloof attitude to his fans, his cynical attitude to Journey. Or Jonathan Cain... sly... arrogant... moody...not to be trusted....and so on. But why are these negative traits relevant at all? Either we love the music or we don't.

Does the fact that Perry has a flawed personality even need to be added as a qualifier?

[Matthew]

The Stones and The Who are not what they once were 25 years ago either.

And, Journey isn't the Stones or the Who...not even close. Journey are not, never were, and never will be, rock icons.

But Steve Perry is, in the vocal department and showman, still classed one of the greatest singers of all time and has inspired the greats, I believe Ricky Martin was inspired by Perry, and the time he Perry was singing, who was a better vocalist?, perhaps they were close or as good, but nobody clearly better than Steve Perry.

yeah, Ricky Martin is really comparable to Roger Daltry and Mick Jagger.

Perry may go down as one of the great voices of rock...But, he's not an icon like Daltry, Jaggar, Plant...These guys are more then just great singers...they were pioneers of the rock era. Perry wasn't.

Monker - the original point was that the Who and the Rolling Stones are nowhere near as good as they used to be but they still have successful careers - so why can't Perry?

Are you saying that you need to be an Icon in order for fans to forgive the ageing process? For it not to matter how good or bad you are? That being merely "one of the great voices in rock" isn't enough?

I agree that Journey aren't in the same league as Led Zeppellin, The Who or the Rolling Stones. As as you say, this is mainly because Journey weren't a first-generation rock band. They weren't as pioneering and so on.

But how is this relevant to the success or otherwise of a Steve Perry comeback?

Perhaps a better comparison would be an artist such as Billy Joel. He isn't an Icon...he's not even one of the great voices in rock...and he's 57. Yet his recent tour was a spectacular success.

Or let's take Neil Diamond...Emmylou Harris...Johnny Cash...who all released commercially successful and critically acclaimed albums after long fallow periods...years and years of beind unfashionable and neglected.

So...I guess what I'm saying is...you don't have to be an Icon to be successful in your late fifties/early sixties Or have I misunderstood your argument?

[finalfight]

I might well be in the minority but I preferred the sound of Perry's voice from Raised on Radio onward, particulary on the For The Love of Strange Medicine record. There is some outstanding vocal work, energy and emotion on that record. Literally a vocal masterclass.

[Matthew]

I might well be in the minority but I preferred the sound of Perry's voice from Raised on Radio onward, particulary on the For The Love of Strange Medicine record. There is some outstanding vocal work, energy and emotion on that record. Literally a vocal masterclass.

I prefer Perry's voice from "Frontiers" onwards - but other than that - I totally agree....