OT: ohsherrie

[Rockindeano]

BEFORE arguing with Dave and RWF




and AFTER

[conversationpc]

I missed the bulk of the conversation but the certain vice president you're talking about. Is this the one who invented the internet? Also the same one who is out there on the lecture circuit talking about the environment like he is the one who figured out all by himself that we fucked this planet up. All of us, Republicans AND Democrats. People fucked this up not political parties. You mean that certain vice president right?

Al Gore didn't figure out the environment is fucked up. He researched it, wrote a damned good book about it, used his position in Government to speak about it, and warn us about it, and has been proven 100% correct by actual scientists.

So if you want to degrade a good man, have at it.

Um, no he hasn't. Even the NY Times called bullshit on Al Gore's exaggerations.

I forgot that. One of the editors probably keeled over from a massive coronary when that happened.

[conversationpc]

BEFORE arguing with Dave and RWF


and AFTER

Ummm...I think that is just a little unnecessary and out of bounds.

I think I will now hurl...

[RedWingFan]

I'd like to appologize to everyone on this board for inadvertantly contributing to the posting of the above pictures...Again I'm sorry

[Blueskies]

Oh good grief, Dean! Everytime I come on here anymore theres your worm Put that thing away before you hurt yourself

[Rockindeano]

Oh good grief, Dean! Everytime I come on here anymore theres your worm Put that thing away before you hurt yourself

Hey Phylldogg. Whats up? Haven't seen you around here in a week or so. Could use some help in this GOP ambush.

[Tom Jrnyfn]

BEFORE arguing with Dave and RWF





and AFTER

Holy shit dude, please tell me that's not your junk.

[jrnychick]

To suggest teachers are less intelligent in some way, from the bottom of their class, or lazy is BSand quite frankly, insulting. I had a few careers before I became a teacher. I worked in publishing, marketing, music, and ran art galleries. My passion is in the classroom and I clearly went into the field for the benefits of serving children. As for striking, it comes to a vote. I've never voted to strike. Think how you'd feel if you recieved a 3% raise over two years and the next offered was another 3%... not even a cost of living raise. That is where our unions do what we pay them to do. The need for me to spend from my own pocket comes from red tape administative/board BS. Because I do care about my students I'll do it, but that will surely be coming to an end with twins on the way.

You guys are getting passionate over the teacher/education situation, but not being in the classroom doing the job leaves you a little unclear on the reality of what is going on.

Lula, I couldn't agree with you more! I graduated Cum Laude from college, and I probably could have done even better if I tried harder. I worked my ass off as a teacher. I taught for 8 years: first grade, fourth grade, and fifth grade. I got my master's in Elementary Ed Administration while teaching. My GPA was a 3.91 in my master's program. I was one of those teachers who got to school at 7am and left at 5pm, and brought work home EVERY night. I worked on developing new units over the summer. I wrote grants over the summer. I was back in my classroom every year on August 1st to get things ready for my kids. I got a key to the school so I could go in on weekends. At the beginning of the school year, my husband used to say, "See you in June." We never went out during the week, because I was always working every night. I loved those kids, and I thought they deserved the best. I didn't go back to teaching when my daughter was born because I knew I couldn't do the job the way I wanted without taking too much time away from her. Now I run my own company, and I work in the education publishing field. I'm looking for a teaching job now, because I miss the classroom! If I find a job, I will be taking a huge cut in pay, but money isn't everything.

While I taught, I was in a teacher's union. I was in the AFT in one school district, and the NEA in another. I was on strike for 6 weeks while in the AFT district. That was sheer hell. I was a second-year teacher. The district wanted us to take a CUT in salary and benefits. I was making a whopping $22,000 at the time. I spent probably an average of $200 a month of my own money for supplies. The district was not wealthy, and xerox paper was rationed. Each teacher got 1 box of paper a year. No, I'm not kidding. We were not allowed to touch the xerox machine, and the clerk would make 30 copies a day of something for us. We had to count the sheets of paper to give to her with whatever we wanted copied. One year, a group of teachers (myself included) go together and rented our own xerox machine. I remember it cost each of us $10 a month, and we each bought our own paper. Besides that, we had chalk, construction paper, butcher paper, and usually not enough textbooks. And people wondered why we were striking?

[Blueskies]

Oh good grief, Dean! Everytime I come on here anymore theres your worm Put that thing away before you hurt yourself

Hey Phylldogg. Whats up? Haven't seen you around here in a week or so. Could use some help in this GOP ambush.

well , I'd help ya, maybe, if you stop trying to prove how much your a Democrat by showing your willy. Thats not helping our side a bit!

[cookieduster]

Oh good grief, Dean! Everytime I come on here anymore theres your worm Put that thing away before you hurt yourself

Hey Phylldogg. Whats up? Haven't seen you around here in a week or so. Could use some help in this GOP ambush.

well , I'd help ya, maybe, if you stop trying to prove how much your a Democrat by showing your willy. Thats not helping our side a bit!

[Ms_M]

Can't add anything to what you two have said Lula and Jrnychick. It is all very true, and I don't think enough of the general public realizes it.

[conversationpc]

Holy shit dude, please tell me that's not your junk.

Yeah, it probably is. Seriously, though that IS out of line. I'd be major pissed if my daughter walked by when that was on the screen.

[Monker]

Most of the top Democrats agreed with and/or authorized the war with Iraq. They are just as responsible as Republicans for the outcome of it. They would have done the same thing the Republican-controlled Congress did.

And, they were cowards for voting with the polls instead of voting the reality of the situation.

I said, right from the begining - and you know this - that it the entire Iraq thing was bullshit. Iraq was NOT a threat to the US. They were NOT a terrorist state. They had NOTHING to do with 9/11. They had no capability of attacking the US in any way shape or form. Trying to make me afraid of some attack from Iraq is like trying to make me fear my neighbor's 2yr old daughter. Wow, what a big threat they were.

It's common sense.

That is something that people who line up their political views with the propaganda they choose to believe lack. They go and search for 'news' sources that back up their views, rather then face the commen sense reality of the situation.

You conservatives laughed at those who opposed Bush's actions at the time. You made them out to be unpatriotic. You said that they should leave the country. Some of you thought this thing would be over in a few months. You thought that we would be welcomed as liberators. You thought that Iraq oil would pay for the war. You believed that Iraq would be this shiny example of democracy in the middle east. You believed that under some rock would be found some hidden nuclear weapon, or whatever.

You were all wrong...on all accounts.

Now that we have been in this 'war' longer then we were in WWII, you want to 'share the blame'. That is acting just as cowardly as those who voted for this war because the polls told them to. You guys wanted this. You guys supported this. You guys have to take the lions share of the blame for the result of it.

Nowadays, we have a terrorist state in the making. We have a "country" that can't control it's own people. We have a nation of factions all wanting power and control over the country - the basic definition of a civil war. We have a country that is more of a threat to the stability of the region NOW then they were BEFORE the war. It's Bush's fault, and don't try to pass off the blame to others.

[Rick]

Most of the top Democrats agreed with and/or authorized the war with Iraq. They are just as responsible as Republicans for the outcome of it. They would have done the same thing the Republican-controlled Congress did.

And, they were cowards for voting with the polls instead of voting the reality of the situation.

I said, right from the begining - and you know this - that it the entire Iraq thing was bullshit. Iraq was NOT a threat to the US. They were NOT a terrorist state. They had NOTHING to do with 9/11. They had no capability of attacking the US in any way shape or form. Trying to make me afraid of some attack from Iraq is like trying to make me fear my neighbor's 2yr old daughter. Wow, what a big threat they were.

It's common sense.

That is something that people who line up their political views with the propaganda they choose to believe lack. They go and search for 'news' sources that back up their views, rather then face the commen sense reality of the situation.

You conservatives laughed at those who opposed Bush's actions at the time. You made them out to be unpatriotic. You said that they should leave the country. Some of you thought this thing would be over in a few months. You thought that we would be welcomed as liberators. You thought that Iraq oil would pay for the war. You believed that Iraq would be this shiny example of democracy in the middle east. You believed that under some rock would be found some hidden nuclear weapon, or whatever.

You were all wrong...on all accounts.

Now that we have been in this 'war' longer then we were in WWII, you want to 'share the blame'. That is acting just as cowardly as those who voted for this war because the polls told them to. You guys wanted this. You guys supported this. You guys have to take the lions share of the blame for the result of it.

Nowadays, we have a terrorist state in the making. We have a "country" that can't control it's own people. We have a nation of factions all wanting power and control over the country - the basic definition of a civil war. We have a country that is more of a threat to the stability of the region NOW then they were BEFORE the war. It's Bush's fault, and don't try to pass off the blame to others.

This is the second time in a week that I've agreed with Monker! In the words of Buford T. Justice; What in the hell is the world coming to?

[RedWingFan]

Most of the top Democrats agreed with and/or authorized the war with Iraq. They are just as responsible as Republicans for the outcome of it. They would have done the same thing the Republican-controlled Congress did.

And, they were cowards for voting with the polls instead of voting the reality of the situation.

I said, right from the begining - and you know this - that it the entire Iraq thing was bullshit. Iraq was NOT a threat to the US. They were NOT a terrorist state. They had NOTHING to do with 9/11. They had no capability of attacking the US in any way shape or form. Trying to make me afraid of some attack from Iraq is like trying to make me fear my neighbor's 2yr old daughter. Wow, what a big threat they were.

It's common sense.

That is something that people who line up their political views with the propaganda they choose to believe lack. They go and search for 'news' sources that back up their views, rather then face the commen sense reality of the situation.

You conservatives laughed at those who opposed Bush's actions at the time. You made them out to be unpatriotic. You said that they should leave the country. Some of you thought this thing would be over in a few months. You thought that we would be welcomed as liberators. You thought that Iraq oil would pay for the war. You believed that Iraq would be this shiny example of democracy in the middle east. You believed that under some rock would be found some hidden nuclear weapon, or whatever.

You were all wrong...on all accounts.

Now that we have been in this 'war' longer then we were in WWII, you want to 'share the blame'. That is acting just as cowardly as those who voted for this war because the polls told them to. You guys wanted this. You guys supported this. You guys have to take the lions share of the blame for the result of it.

Nowadays, we have a terrorist state in the making. We have a "country" that can't control it's own people. We have a nation of factions all wanting power and control over the country - the basic definition of a civil war. We have a country that is more of a threat to the stability of the region NOW then they were BEFORE the war. It's Bush's fault, and don't try to pass off the blame to others.

Dude, you are aware we're killing terrorists there right? Is that a good thing?

[Blueskies]

Most of the top Democrats agreed with and/or authorized the war with Iraq. They are just as responsible as Republicans for the outcome of it. They would have done the same thing the Republican-controlled Congress did.

And, they were cowards for voting with the polls instead of voting the reality of the situation.

I said, right from the begining - and you know this - that it the entire Iraq thing was bullshit. Iraq was NOT a threat to the US. They were NOT a terrorist state. They had NOTHING to do with 9/11. They had no capability of attacking the US in any way shape or form. Trying to make me afraid of some attack from Iraq is like trying to make me fear my neighbor's 2yr old daughter. Wow, what a big threat they were.

It's common sense.

That is something that people who line up their political views with the propaganda they choose to believe lack. They go and search for 'news' sources that back up their views, rather then face the commen sense reality of the situation.

You conservatives laughed at those who opposed Bush's actions at the time. You made them out to be unpatriotic. You said that they should leave the country. Some of you thought this thing would be over in a few months. You thought that we would be welcomed as liberators. You thought that Iraq oil would pay for the war. You believed that Iraq would be this shiny example of democracy in the middle east. You believed that under some rock would be found some hidden nuclear weapon, or whatever.

You were all wrong...on all accounts.

Now that we have been in this 'war' longer then we were in WWII, you want to 'share the blame'. That is acting just as cowardly as those who voted for this war because the polls told them to. You guys wanted this. You guys supported this. You guys have to take the lions share of the blame for the result of it.

Nowadays, we have a terrorist state in the making. We have a "country" that can't control it's own people. We have a nation of factions all wanting power and control over the country - the basic definition of a civil war. We have a country that is more of a threat to the stability of the region NOW then they were BEFORE the war. It's Bush's fault, and don't try to pass off the blame to others.

Great post, Monker

[conversationpc]

You conservatives laughed at those who opposed Bush's actions at the time. You made them out to be unpatriotic. You said that they should leave the country.

Ummm...Direct your comments at someone else, please. I never said nor thought anything of the kind.

Some of you thought this thing would be over in a few months.

Sorry. No one that I know of thought that.

It's Bush's fault, and don't try to pass off the blame to others.

Depending on your stance on the war and whether we should have gone to Iraq, if you're going to blame Bush, it's no major feat of mental gymnastics to conclude that members of Congress who also voted for the war are also to blame to one degree or another. That is a fact.

[Monker]

The president gave about a half dozen reasons, WMD's only being 1. WMD's is what the liberals and their accomplices in the media jumped on to discredit America and defend Saddam.

What an outright lie. We had the VP of this country chatting it up. We had Powell chatting it up to the UN. IMO, the Republicans supported the WMD scenerio to scare this country into supporting them....and anybody who didn't became an unpatriotic fool who should be deported.

It was all bullshit, and I said so from the beginning. Iraq has the brains to build a nuclear weapon? Come on, they were so stupid they tried to build a giant canon/gun thing to point at Israel.

If terrorists were everywhere else in the world EXCEPT Iraq (which is bullshit)

It is now...But, Saddam was just as big of an enemy to the 'terrorists' as we were. I'm sure you remember how he 'attacked his own people'.

They are there now, we need to keep killin' em. But then again I'm pro Freedom/American and stuff

The problem is that if we let Iraq have the freedom you speak so highly of, they would vote in a government more akin to Iran then anything you would want.

You are dealing with a country and people who don't WANT a Democracy. They do not know how to live in one. They didn't WANT one...THEY are not the ones who fought for this - we are. They had no vested interest in the outcome of this. Shoving 'democracy' down a country's throat is not 'freedom' and I don't think it's very 'American' either. It sounds more like what the Soviets did to Easter Europe then anything 'American'.

[Melissa]

Can't add anything to what you two have said Lula and Jrnychick. It is all very true, and I don't think enough of the general public realizes it.

The paper part is SO true here too. We've donated lots of paper for my son's K class, as well as construction paper & card stock & things they need all the time for projects. Paper towels & soap are needed all the time too. My son's teacher sent a note home with all the kids one time asking for each family to donate just 1 roll of paper towels & just 1 bottle of soap, to help keep a stock. Know how many actually did so? About 5, myself included in that. Amazed me that people couldn't get just 1 roll of paper towels & 1 bottle of soap. Costs less than $2 total, but nope, they ignored her request. Now I just get big packs of paper towels & packs of soap at Sam's & bring them in, since most of the other parents just can't be bothered.

Oh & I had to laugh about the Xerox machine, I thought the librarian at my son's school would slit my throat when I went to make copies for my son's teacher in there because the only other copy machine in the school was being used, & she needed the copies asap. Didn't realize the library copy machine was so sacred lol.

[Blueskies]

Dave, I dont blame just Bush. He is just at the top of the heap. Then theres the Rover, Lon Chaney, Rummie, Wolf- o - bits, Rice cakes....etc.

[Barb]

"As far as setting a timeline... that's not a wise decision, because it only empowers those who don't want us there."

Who said this?

[ohsherrie]

Bravo Monker!!!

[Rockindeano]

Look at Monker coming out of nowhere to throw one down with authority.

Nice work dude.

[RedWingFan]

The president gave about a half dozen reasons, WMD's only being 1. WMD's is what the liberals and their accomplices in the media jumped on to discredit America and defend Saddam.

What an outright lie. We had the VP of this country chatting it up. We had Powell chatting it up to the UN. IMO, the Republicans supported the WMD scenerio to scare this country into supporting them....and anybody who didn't became an unpatriotic fool who should be deported.

What I'm talking about was his initial address to the American people at the start of the war...look it up

You are dealing with a country and people who don't WANT a Democracy.

Then why did their voting turnout put ours to shame, even though they threatened w/ death?

[Monker]

Dude, you are aware we're killing terrorists there right? Is that a good thing?

No.

We should have been killing them in Afghanistan - not giving them a new place to hide in Iraq, and a new place for them to attack us.

[Rockindeano]

Then why did their voting turnout put ours to shame, even though they threatened w/ death?

Good point actually.

Here we have the fuckin beaners who can't vote, the lazy bastards who well, are too lazy to vote, and the old fuckers who well, are old. We take our voting rights too haphazardly.

I remember when Saddam was in power, that guy won every election in a romp. He always got 99% of the vote. He was a powerhouse!

[conversationpc]

What an outright lie. We had the VP of this country chatting it up. We had Powell chatting it up to the UN. IMO, the Republicans supported the WMD scenerio to scare this country into supporting them....and anybody who didn't became an unpatriotic fool who should be deported.

Practically the entire world supported the WMD angle, including Democrats, as previously stated. Hillary and Kerry actually made stronger cases for WMDs in Iraq and going to war with them than Bush did previous to the invasion.

Iraq has the brains to build a nuclear weapon? Come on, they were so stupid they tried to build a giant canon/gun thing to point at Israel.

I don't think anyone claims that Iraq had a nuclear weapon. Besides that, I think it's rather naive to believe that Saddam Hussein wouldn't have grabbed one if he had the opportunity at the time. Personally, though, I don't think that's a rationale for war, so it doesn't matter to me one way or the other on this point.

It is now...But, Saddam was just as big of an enemy to the 'terrorists' as we were.

Sometimes you can make a decent point but this is the most ridiculous utterance I've heard yet in this thread. Saddam, an enemy to terrorists? Tell that to the families of suicide bombers who benefited from his being an "enemy" to them.

The problem is that if we let Iraq have the freedom you speak so highly of, they would vote in a government more akin to Iran then anything you would want.

Can't disagree with that. If they vote them in, they get what they deserve.

Shoving 'democracy' down a country's throat is not 'freedom' and I don't think it's very 'American' either. It sounds more like what the Soviets did to Easter Europe then anything 'American'.

Was it "Soviet" of us to do the same thing to Japan after WWII? We imposed democracy on them, didn't we?

[conversationpc]

Here we have the fuckin beaners who can't vote, the lazy bastards who well, are too lazy to vote, and the old fuckers who well, are old. We take our voting rights too haphazardly.

People who don't vote don't have a moral right to complain about government, in my opinion. If someone doesn't vote, they should keep their lazy mouth closed.

I remember when Saddam was in power, that guy won every election in a romp. He always got 99% of the vote. He was a powerhouse!

He must've had some kind of mojo going for him...

[Monker]

It's Bush's fault, and don't try to pass off the blame to others.

Depending on your stance on the war and whether we should have gone to Iraq, if you're going to blame Bush, it's no major feat of mental gymnastics to conclude that members of Congress who also voted for the war are also to blame to one degree or another. That is a fact.

Geez, read the first sentence in my post...to quote myself, "And, they were cowards for voting with the polls instead of voting the reality of the situation."

Bush was already going to do attack Iraq. Everybody knew that. The vote in congress was a formality...a "we stand together" bullshit vote that meant nothing except that those who voted against it were unpatriotic fools who should be voted out of office.

[conversationpc]

Geez, read the first sentence in my post...to quote myself, "And, they were cowards for voting with the polls instead of voting the reality of the situation."

I did read the first sentence. That sentence doesn't reference nor having anything to do with who is to blame, which is what you referenced in your last paragraph. It doesn't necessarily follow that your first sentence is linked in any way to the last sentence in that last paragraph unless you specifically state it. Context, Monker. Context.