Losing faith in Arnel's abilities.

[Rocker Chic]

I'm not even into the band as much as I used to be and I think it is still too soon to be making judgements on Arnel. Think about how fast he went from bar band to Journey...I think he needs to relax and BE Arnel and not try so hard.

He has the voice, he has the talent, he just needs to settle into the role and take it on as his.

You know, Kim, I think this is exactly what's been bothering me about Arnel... I haven't heard what *he* really sounds like. I keep hearing him trying to copy others. I haven't been able to identify with him as a singer on his own.

That is probably why I tend to focus on his accent so much. His style of singing is clearly trying to copy Perry and the accent sticks out like a sore thumb on the more up tempo songs, to me. He seems to be able to control it a bit more on the slow ballads, though.

I want to hear what HE sounds like when he's not trying to emulate someone else. Even with Augeri's similarity to Perry, there was enough of his own tone and style in there for me to grow to like him in the role. I think if AP came into this, singing things well, but in his own voice, I'd be more open to accept him. I, unfortunately, just can't help feeling bothered by hearing him. Besides, having someone trying to sound exactly like Perry is more spooky than anything IMO.

Debbie

[brywool]

...Now, Steve, get the master tapes from Arrival, Remember Me, and Generations. SLOW THE TRACKS DOWN so that they will fit your current vocal range and re-record the lead vocal tracks, presto, another reformed Journey album.

I'd like to see Arnel be given a chance to sing Remember Me and a couple of songs off Arrival.

That'd be cool. Higher Place would rock. I really LIKE what he did with the Generations track.

[Liquid_Drummer]

I started this post and I have to say after seeing the clips that my faith has been reignited...


Foot planted firmly in mouth and it tastes like......

ummm...


Fried spam maybe ?

I want to see arnel sing, open the door, Where were you, Escape, Hoplessly in love...

and....

People and places my fav of all Journey songs. God I love that song. Rollie just has the perfect tone on that one..

[conversationpc]

I really LIKE what he did with the Generations track.

I still prefer the version on "Generations".

[Playitloudforme]

In SW, his delivery is "slow" and "off-tempo".
During the chorus, the lines,
"Some day... Love will find you...
Break those... chains that bind you..."
are drawn out and slow, not short and precise.

And he does this throughout the whole song.
Maybe it's from having the original burned in my freaking brain
but it just doesn't translate well to me.
He has a great voice, don't get me wrong.
But his delivery and accent are still driving me nuts.

Bingo. I've really tried to listen and give this guy a chance. I listened to the Chile concert, I listened to the Wal-mart snippets, I listened to Ellen. Unfortunately, it has only cemented my original take on the guy. There's something off.

He's was too drawn out on SW (and in most rockers that I've heard). The music is staccato, and he was legato, and it drove me bananas. The music was already moving forward, and he was still sitting on those notes. Can he not hear that? Perhaps he was trying to put his own spin on it, but for me, it failed. That and the straining on the upper ranges that he has on occasion (not always, but it's there) is enough for me to step back and say...why. Chalking it up to nerves isn't permitted anymore, as he's been at this for a while now, been performing forever, right? He's sung these songs forever, right? Is he the professional Neal claims, or not?

The jumping around on stage during the Ellen show was distracting beyond all. At least do it ON TIME to the music. It looked as if he had no clue what to do, and so rather than just stand there, he bounced. All over. Badly. I was at the Roxy this past month seeing Camp Freddy, and they had an opening band one of those nights who's bassist clearly thought he was performing on a stadium stage. That boy was ALL OVER the stage, and it didn't make up for his lackluster bass skills. It only made him look ridiculous. Kinda the same here. He's trying to look like a rockstar, and isn't quite there.

It's not so much an accent with me but a diction issue, which is very different from accent. I'm not happy about the words that are mispronounced or dropped. That in and of itself isn't enough to drop him, but add that to the lack of ability to sing anything other than ballads well makes me wonder why.

Pass.

[paulfromwesthill]

Can't really comment until I hear the guy when Journey comes to the UK next month - from clips heard sounds OK but I really don't what to expect

JSS absolutely nailed everything at London Hammersmith last March - Brian May of Queen sitting close to me agreed too and he knows a bit about music ! amazing and Journey really rocked

I'm sitting on the fence - not my style but this will be a toughie - wish the guy luck though - he may need it

[Rocker Chic]

Bingo. I've really tried to listen and give this guy a chance. I listened to the Chile concert, I listened to the Wal-mart snippets, I listened to Ellen. Unfortunately, it has only cemented my original take on the guy. There's something off.

He's was too drawn out on SW (and in most rockers that I've heard). The music is staccato, and he was legato, and it drove me bananas. The music was already moving forward, and he was still sitting on those notes. Can he not hear that? Perhaps he was trying to put his own spin on it, but for me, it failed. That and the straining on the upper ranges that he has on occasion (not always, but it's there) is enough for me to step back and say...why. Chalking it up to nerves isn't permitted anymore, as he's been at this for a while now, been performing forever, right? He's sung these songs forever, right? Is he the professional Neal claims, or not?

The jumping around on stage during the Ellen show was distracting beyond all. At least do it ON TIME to the music. It looked as if he had no clue what to do, and so rather than just stand there, he bounced. All over. Badly. I was at the Roxy this past month seeing Camp Freddy, and they had an opening band one of those nights who's bassist clearly thought he was performing on a stadium stage. That boy was ALL OVER the stage, and it didn't make up for his lackluster bass skills. It only made him look ridiculous. Kinda the same here. He's trying to look like a rockstar, and isn't quite there.

It's not so much an accent with me but a diction issue, which is very different from accent. I'm not happy about the words that are mispronounced or dropped. That in and of itself isn't enough to drop him, but add that to the lack of ability to sing anything other than ballads well makes me wonder why.

That's it! You said it better than I did and, yes, perhaps the correct word is "diction".

Here's what I've said elsewhere about the Ellen performance (because I'm too damned lazy right now to rewrite it and, well, it's almost time to leave for the weekend ):

Okay, I watched the link a few times and, sorry, I still don't like their new vocalist.

He does have difficulties in spots (and I, too, noticed Neal look over -- sorry, Neal, you can't tell us you don't hear the vocals when you play -- busted!) and the darned accent really bothers me. Arnel is able to control it more when he slows down on the ballads (like here in 'Faithfully'), but he really has difficulty on the more up tempo songs ("shains that bine yew" -- sorry that really gets annoying after a while). If it was so important that they find a Perry clone, why didn't they think about the accent issues that were sure to arise?

It also pains me to watch him tossing around the mic stand (I thought he was going to hit someone with it) and bounce/skip around the stage. He really looks like he's not confortable doing that. Sure, I'd chalk most of it up to nervousness in front of so many people, but some people just either have the ease and confidence, or they don't. (Eddie Money is certainly no gisselle on the stage, that's for sure!) Who knows, maybe Arnel will get better at it with experience. :::shrug::: [Oh, and, yes, it really bothers me that he's wearing that chain wallet on the right side, too -- there, I said it! ]

Sure, Arnel sings very well, but he is certainly NOT the second coming, as many protest that he is. Sure, the guy deserves a break because he is talented, but I'm not going to run out and start declaring that he's got more power, depth, and soul than Perry did. That's just ludicrous and I can't believe people keep proclaiming that while keeping a straight face!

I'm sorry, I keep trying to like him. I keep trying to see what others see. And, I keep trying to hope that I will be proven wrong, but, so far, it's not happening. :::shrug::: As a consumer, I firmly believe that I am entitled to my opinion on what I decide to spend my money on. And, right now, I'm not feeling the urge to break out the wallet. To me, this incarnation of Journey, will have to wait much longer to see me hand over the green. After all, I've got FF V to save for!

Debbie

[The_Noble_Cause]

Brian May of Queen sitting close to me agreed too and he knows a bit about music ! amazing and Journey really rocked

JSS won accolades from the highest echelons of rock royalty - May, Blades, and even Kalodner.
Doesn't that account for anything?
I realize AP sounds more like Perry, but they could have just as easily re-done the hits and released a new album with JSS.

[brywool]

I realize AP sounds more like Perry, but they could have just as easily re-done the hits and released a new album with JSS.

I think this is wrong. While he could've recorded them, they wouldn't have the connection to the old sound at all. With Pro-Tools, Ringo Starr could've done the vocals for the new album. Doesn't mean it would connect with Journey's fans or sound.

I can't believe we're still talking about Jss as the singer for the band. It didn't work out for whatever reason. I think that he'll be better off without Journey honestly.

[Gin and Tonic Sky]

Can't really comment until I hear the guy when Journey comes to the UK next month - from clips heard sounds OK but I really don't what to expect

JSS absolutely nailed everything at London Hammersmith last March - Brian May of Queen sitting close to me agreed too and he knows a bit about music ! amazing and Journey really rocked

I'm sitting on the fence - not my style but this will be a toughie - wish the guy luck though - he may need it

yep I was there at that SOTO HAMMERSMITH concert -man that was some great shit. Still I have an open mind with Arnel. My decison wil be made in Cardiff and by listening to Revelation. I want to like Arnel and I hope I can return a positive verdict.

[Rick]

Can't really comment until I hear the guy when Journey comes to the UK next month - from clips heard sounds OK but I really don't what to expect

JSS absolutely nailed everything at London Hammersmith last March - Brian May of Queen sitting close to me agreed too and he knows a bit about music ! amazing and Journey really rocked

I'm sitting on the fence - not my style but this will be a toughie - wish the guy luck though - he may need it

yep I was there at that SOTO HAMMERSMITH concert -man that was some great shit. Still I have an open mind with Arnel. My decison wil be made in Cardiff and by listening to Revelation. I want to like Arnel and I hope I can return a positive verdict.

Outside of Arnels unconventional stage presence, which is kind of cool in it's own right, you should be a very happy camper.

[FormerJrnyFan]

I'm not even into the band as much as I used to be and I think it is still too soon to be making judgements on Arnel. Think about how fast he went from bar band to Journey...I think he needs to relax and BE Arnel and not try so hard.

He has the voice, he has the talent, he just needs to settle into the role and take it on as his.

You know, Kim, I think this is exactly what's been bothering me about Arnel... I haven't heard what *he* really sounds like. I keep hearing him trying to copy others...

Which is exactly what Mr. Schon & Mr. Friga were after, no?

[Sarah]

I realize AP sounds more like Perry, but they could have just as easily re-done the hits and released a new album with JSS.

I think this is wrong. While he could've recorded them, they wouldn't have the connection to the old sound at all. With Pro-Tools, Ringo Starr could've done the vocals for the new album. Doesn't mean it would connect with Journey's fans or sound.

Wouldn't an updated/new sound for the re-records have been less pointless than the note-by-note remakes we seem to have gotten?

[Rick]

I realize AP sounds more like Perry, but they could have just as easily re-done the hits and released a new album with JSS.

I think this is wrong. While he could've recorded them, they wouldn't have the connection to the old sound at all. With Pro-Tools, Ringo Starr could've done the vocals for the new album. Doesn't mean it would connect with Journey's fans or sound.

Wouldn't an updated/new sound for the re-records have been less pointless than the note-by-note remakes we seem to have gotten?

It isn't us they're trying to sell to. While I'm sure they want us to buy them also, they recorded them again the way the general public expects them to sound. That's the demographic they're trying to target.

[Sarah]

It isn't us they're trying to sell to. While I'm sure they want us to buy them also, they recorded them again the way the general public expects them to sound. That's the demographic they're trying to target.

But wouldn't even the general public (besides people buying it for Arnel) hear them and go, "Couldn't I have just bought GH?" There's no new draw except a different singer.

[Rick]

It isn't us they're trying to sell to. While I'm sure they want us to buy them also, they recorded them again the way the general public expects them to sound. That's the demographic they're trying to target.

But wouldn't even the general public (besides people buying it for Arnel) hear them and go, "Couldn't I have just bought GH?" There's no new draw except a different singer.

Yes, but the point is to pimp Arnel as the new voice of Journey. That's what they are, buncha pimps.

[fightingilliniJRNY]

But wouldn't even the general public (besides people buying it for Arnel) hear them and go, "Couldn't I have just bought GH?" There's no new draw except a different singer.

That's a pretty big reason...

[FormerJrnyFan]

I realize AP sounds more like Perry, but they could have just as easily re-done the hits and released a new album with JSS.

I think this is wrong. While he could've recorded them, they wouldn't have the connection to the old sound at all. With Pro-Tools, Ringo Starr could've done the vocals for the new album. Doesn't mean it would connect with Journey's fans or sound.

Wouldn't an updated/new sound for the re-records have been less pointless than the note-by-note remakes we seem to have gotten?

It isn't us they're trying to sell to. While I'm sure they want us to buy them also, they recorded them again the way the general public expects them to sound. That's the demographic they're trying to target.

Let's face it, we're more than just casual fans here. The general public already have the originals and are more than happy listening to SP singing them. They are not going to buy this set to listen to re-recorded tunes - no way. They might just buy it for the new material - out of curiousity. If they're even curious, that is...

[Rick]

I realize AP sounds more like Perry, but they could have just as easily re-done the hits and released a new album with JSS.

I think this is wrong. While he could've recorded them, they wouldn't have the connection to the old sound at all. With Pro-Tools, Ringo Starr could've done the vocals for the new album. Doesn't mean it would connect with Journey's fans or sound.

Wouldn't an updated/new sound for the re-records have been less pointless than the note-by-note remakes we seem to have gotten?

It isn't us they're trying to sell to. While I'm sure they want us to buy them also, they recorded them again the way the general public expects them to sound. That's the demographic they're trying to target.

Let's face it, we're more than just casual fans here. The general public already have the originals and are more than happy listening to SP singing them. They are not going to buy this set to listen to re-recorded tunes - no way. They might just buy it for the new material - out of curiousity. If they're even curious, that is...

Respectfully, nobody goes through the whole process of recording an album without hoping it will be a hit with the masses.

[Liquid_Drummer]

Just the fact that they are able to re-release the older songs gives them a better chance to chart again. The newer and more modern production will attract the ear of younger listeners that may even think its new. Production wise, the new songs wouldnt sound out of place with other new material on the radio which is why I think that they did it.

[FormerJrnyFan]

I realize AP sounds more like Perry, but they could have just as easily re-done the hits and released a new album with JSS.

I think this is wrong. While he could've recorded them, they wouldn't have the connection to the old sound at all. With Pro-Tools, Ringo Starr could've done the vocals for the new album. Doesn't mean it would connect with Journey's fans or sound.

Wouldn't an updated/new sound for the re-records have been less pointless than the note-by-note remakes we seem to have gotten?

It isn't us they're trying to sell to. While I'm sure they want us to buy them also, they recorded them again the way the general public expects them to sound. That's the demographic they're trying to target.

Let's face it, we're more than just casual fans here. The general public already have the originals and are more than happy listening to SP singing them. They are not going to buy this set to listen to re-recorded tunes - no way. They might just buy it for the new material - out of curiousity. If they're even curious, that is...

Respectfully, nobody goes through the whole process of recording an album without hoping it will be a hit with the masses.

Good point - some do it strictly because they love it though. Anything after that is a bonus.

[fightingilliniJRNY]

Respectfully, nobody goes through the whole process of recording an album without hoping it will be a hit with the masses.

Good point - some do it strictly because they love it though. Anything after that is a bonus.

After seeing his quotes in the GQ extra from the MR frontpage today - it's clear that that man is Neal Schon.

[Rick]

I realize AP sounds more like Perry, but they could have just as easily re-done the hits and released a new album with JSS.

I think this is wrong. While he could've recorded them, they wouldn't have the connection to the old sound at all. With Pro-Tools, Ringo Starr could've done the vocals for the new album. Doesn't mean it would connect with Journey's fans or sound.

Wouldn't an updated/new sound for the re-records have been less pointless than the note-by-note remakes we seem to have gotten?

It isn't us they're trying to sell to. While I'm sure they want us to buy them also, they recorded them again the way the general public expects them to sound. That's the demographic they're trying to target.

Let's face it, we're more than just casual fans here. The general public already have the originals and are more than happy listening to SP singing them. They are not going to buy this set to listen to re-recorded tunes - no way. They might just buy it for the new material - out of curiousity. If they're even curious, that is...

Respectfully, nobody goes through the whole process of recording an album without hoping it will be a hit with the masses.

Good point - some do it strictly because they love it though. Anything after that is a bonus.

Another good point.

[FormerJrnyFan]

Respectfully, nobody goes through the whole process of recording an album without hoping it will be a hit with the masses.

Good point - some do it strictly because they love it though. Anything after that is a bonus.

After seeing his quotes in the GQ extra from the MR frontpage today - it's clear that that man is Neal Schon.

To avoid another thread being closed............. no comment

[RossValoryRocks]

I realize AP sounds more like Perry, but they could have just as easily re-done the hits and released a new album with JSS.

I think this is wrong. While he could've recorded them, they wouldn't have the connection to the old sound at all. With Pro-Tools, Ringo Starr could've done the vocals for the new album. Doesn't mean it would connect with Journey's fans or sound.

I can't believe we're still talking about Jss as the singer for the band. It didn't work out for whatever reason. I think that he'll be better off without Journey honestly.

Uhhh...if you were at ANY of the concerts Jeff did with Journey you would know the fans (most of them) connect with Jeff amazingly well.

The crowd loved him...he WORKED the crowd up...drew them into the music he was singing...and he didn't it NOT being a clone of Steve Perry...and THAT is pretty fucking impressive.

[Rick]

I realize AP sounds more like Perry, but they could have just as easily re-done the hits and released a new album with JSS.

I think this is wrong. While he could've recorded them, they wouldn't have the connection to the old sound at all. With Pro-Tools, Ringo Starr could've done the vocals for the new album. Doesn't mean it would connect with Journey's fans or sound.

I can't believe we're still talking about Jss as the singer for the band. It didn't work out for whatever reason. I think that he'll be better off without Journey honestly.

Uhhh...if you were at ANY of the concerts Jeff did with Journey you would know the fans (most of them) connect with Jeff amazingly well.

The crowd loved him...he WORKED the crowd up...drew them into the music he was singing...and he didn't it NOT being a clone of Steve Perry...and THAT is pretty fucking impressive.

Sure was. I'd take a Soto fronted Journey over anyone except SP. PERIOD.

[fightingilliniJRNY]

Respectfully, nobody goes through the whole process of recording an album without hoping it will be a hit with the masses.

Good point - some do it strictly because they love it though. Anything after that is a bonus.

After seeing his quotes in the GQ extra from the MR frontpage today - it's clear that that man is Neal Schon.

To avoid another thread being closed............. no comment

What? You don't think Neal still writes and records because he loves it? I know the running (tired) joke is that he has to finance his alimony payments...but c'mon. The man hasn't stopped since he was 15. I know he wants a hit with Revelation, but I'm sure he's not fooling himself. If Revelations isn't a hit (but sells better than Arrival and Generations), I think we'll still see another Journey album. If Revelation isn't a hit, Neal's not going to retire Journey.

[strangegrey]

I really LIKE what he did with the Generations track.

I still prefer the version on "Generations".

Im convinced, the effort put into rerecording FITH is an effort to invalidate generations.....which is sad. You release an album, stand by it, dud or hit.

By re releasing it, you're sorta saying to your fans. "Don't listen to the previous one, it wasn't nearly as good as this one!" That's not cool, in my book.

[Rick]

I really LIKE what he did with the Generations track.

I still prefer the version on "Generations".

Im convinced, the effort put into rerecording FITH is an effort to invalidate generations.....which is sad. You release an album, stand by it, dud or hit.

By re releasing it, you're sorta saying to your fans. "Don't listen to the previous one, it wasn't nearly as good as this one!" That's not cool, in my book.

Actually I don't think enough people heard it to make a difference.

[fightingilliniJRNY]

I really LIKE what he did with the Generations track.

I still prefer the version on "Generations".

Im convinced, the effort put into rerecording FITH is an effort to invalidate generations.....which is sad. You release an album, stand by it, dud or hit.

By re releasing it, you're sorta saying to your fans. "Don't listen to the previous one, it wasn't nearly as good as this one!" That's not cool, in my book.

I'm not sure enough people are aware that FITH was already on another album for this to be a slap in the face to Generations. I get what you're saying, though. I personally think that Journey wants to give FITH (a killer song that they wish more people know) another chance. Has anybody in the band actually gone on record as to why they put FITH on Revelation?