OT: Has McCain Thrown in the Towel?

[donnaplease]

The Republicans bitch all day about people aborting babies... but when a mother who is addicted to crack doesn't abort her baby, the Republicans want to deny her public assitance that could help her turn her life around and actually give the kid a fighting chance to do better than his mother did. If that is not an oxymoron, I don't know what is.

If only she'd do that, instead of once again denying her child's needs in order to score one more high...

Do you realize that over a million babies are aborted a year. A million? So all those were extreme cases? I have a problem with killing babies because it is a nusience to someones life. Use protection, and a brain, then maybe we can reduce the numbers. How much money a year does that cost us? We have conditioned people to think it is no big deal because we dehumanize a baby by calling it a fetus. It should be something sad when a mother feels the real need to do so. Not just like getting a shot, or something mundain. The numbers are not justified to real cases where it is needed. I don't want to outlaw it, just not pay for the frivilous abuse of the system.

I couldn't agree more. My comment was about the mother's abuse of the child, not suggesting she should have an abortion. Our society is going to hell in a hand-basket, and as a mother of 4, it really concerns me.

[artist4perry]

Don't lecture me on open-mindedness. That is the problem.

I have lived in Europe, Asia...nine different countries in all. Never seen ANYTHING like the racism down here.

I am not trying to lecture you. I am just trying to discuss this issue with you like a reasonable person. But your not listening to what I am saying either. You have preconceived notions you do not want to let go of. Someone already pointed out the racial divides in large cities as well, so have I. You have painted an entire region the way you wish to percieve it. Your mind is closed.

[conversationpc]

People like Deano, and if I may include myself in that august company, are really engaging in Borscht Belt/ribald humor.
We don't mean any of it.
For all you know we have sucked off 2000 cocks just between the two of us.

I will take up my arms with gay bros. and sisters any day - just draw the battlelines.

I've heard this kind of defense before, yet if I were to use that same kind of humor against an ethnic minority or something to that effect, you and yours would be the first ones to call me racist, homophobic, etc.

[conversationpc]

TNC? In no way, shape or form is he a racist. Not even close.

Nope...Homophobic, though? Definitely.

[artist4perry]

The Republicans bitch all day about people aborting babies... but when a mother who is addicted to crack doesn't abort her baby, the Republicans want to deny her public assitance that could help her turn her life around and actually give the kid a fighting chance to do better than his mother did. If that is not an oxymoron, I don't know what is.

If only she'd do that, instead of once again denying her child's needs in order to score one more high...

Do you realize that over a million babies are aborted a year. A million? So all those were extreme cases? I have a problem with killing babies because it is a nusience to someones life. Use protection, and a brain, then maybe we can reduce the numbers. How much money a year does that cost us? We have conditioned people to think it is no big deal because we dehumanize a baby by calling it a fetus. It should be something sad when a mother feels the real need to do so. Not just like getting a shot, or something mundain. The numbers are not justified to real cases where it is needed. I don't want to outlaw it, just not pay for the frivilous abuse of the system.

I couldn't agree more. My comment was about the mother's abuse of the child, not suggesting she should have an abortion. Our society is going to hell in a hand-basket, and as a mother of 4, it really concerns me.

I was refering to what Voyager said, I agreed with you!

[The_Noble_Cause]

I've heard this kind of defense before, yet if I were to use that same kind of humor against an ethnic minority or something to that effect, you and yours would be the first ones to call me racist, homophobic, etc.

That's not true.
I even defended Imus's right to say what he said.
I just also defend Sharpton's right to protest it.

[conversationpc]

I've heard this kind of defense before, yet if I were to use that same kind of humor against an ethnic minority or something to that effect, you and yours would be the first ones to call me racist, homophobic, etc.

That's not true.
I even defended Imus's right to say what he said.
I just also defend Sharpton's right to protest it.

Give me a break. I've heard you call conservatives far worse for much less.

[7 Wishes]

Anyway, most Americans are in agreement that no matter which ticket wins, this country will be better off.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Give me a break. I've heard you call conservatives far worse for much less.

Who cares what I do?
I'm on a private message board, not syndicated coast-to-coast on public-owned airwaves.

[conversationpc]

Give me a break. I've heard you call conservatives far worse for much less.

Who cares what I do?
I'm on a private message board, not syndicated coast-to-coast on public-owned airwaves.

Yeah, I've heard that excuse at least a couple of times before, too. Poor excuse for bad behavior.

[X factor]

Yeah, Johnny...cause we all KNOW that there's no racism in BOSTON!!!!!!!!!!!

Listen fuckhead...I never said that racism isn't a problem EVERYWHERE, including in Boston. I simply pointed out that it was a FAR bigger problem in the south than I ever saw it being in New England!

"They actually have retail stores devoted to the KKK and their clothing"

BTW- I totally call Bullshit on this statement! I want proof that such a place exists.

You, my friend, are a fucking moron! I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that you're from the south

http://a.abcnews.com/TheLaw/wireStory?id=4419959

Read it and weap, asshole! Contrary to what you think, I actually don't just make this shit up. By the way, this store has been in business since 1996! I can assure you that in this part of the country, a store like that wouldn't be in business for 12 minutes, let alone 12 years! I can tell you that as an American, I am beyond embarrassed that shit like this exists, ANYWHERE in this country! Once I saw this story on the local NC news, I realized that I was in a very fucked up part of the country, and that perhaps people in other parts of the country really didn't have the open mind that I was raised with. Let me know if you need any more "proof", Einstein!


John from Boston

I won't resort to name calling, but I will assure you that I am not a "fucking moron". I simply find it ironic that you have such strong feelings about the racism in the South, yet you constantly praise a city notorius for it.

I would also point out that your relentless attacks on the South get very tiresome to those of us who call it home and who are NOT the racist scumbags you portray us as. Perhaps you should consider this when you post that a large number of us on this board are insulted by your rhetoric.

As for your store, I stand corrected. But living in the South, we are subjected to all manor of "urban legend" regarding the Klan and "small out of the way southern towns", so my assumption was that this store should've been filed under that heading. I was wrong, and I apologize for calling you out before I checked my facts. I think the place you refer to is sick, and I too am embarrased by it's presence,but most of the people I have resided amongst in my life DO NOT feel this way. And yes, I do reside in the South, and have for most of my life, thus I think that makes me a fairly good judge of the folks in these parts.

Plus, let's face it...there is the South, and there is "the South". The further South you go, the worse some of this stuff rears it's ugly head. I reside in Kentucky (BTW- you needn't have asked me if I live in the South, as you could've assertained that from my profile...EINSTEIN!) That state borders Ohio, which BTW- when the Klan reformed in the 1920's was the state where more than HALF of their membership was based. Learned that in "fucking moron History 101"

[RedWingFan]

What it comes down to is that a lot of Republicans - are racists. I don't believe you are, RWF, but there are some posters here who clearly are.

Okay 7 Wishes, let's play name that quote. Who said this?

“[Obama's] the first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy”

Guesses? Anyone? Here's a hint, he's NOT from the south.

[Voyager]

What it comes down to is that a lot of Republicans - are racists. I don't believe you are, RWF, but there are some posters here who clearly are.

Okay 7 Wishes, let's play name that quote. Who said this?

“[Obama's] the first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy”

Guesses? Anyone? Here's a hint, he's NOT from the south.

Joe Biden said it, and the way I take it is that he was saying Obama was not like Jesse Jackson and most other mainstream African American political figures who do nothing but race-bait. Obama actually uses intellect, reason, and communication to deal with issues instead of just protesting and complaining about them.

I agree with Biden... except for maybe the good looking comment. I'll have to defer to Friga or Stevew on that one.

[Rick]

What it comes down to is that a lot of Republicans - are racists. I don't believe you are, RWF, but there are some posters here who clearly are.

Okay 7 Wishes, let's play name that quote. Who said this?

“[Obama's] the first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy”

Guesses? Anyone? Here's a hint, he's NOT from the south.

Joe Biden said it, and the way I take it is that he was saying Obama was not like Jesse Jackson and most other mainstream African American political figures who do nothing but race-bait. Obama actually uses intellect, reason, and communication to deal with issues instead of just protesting and complaining about them.

I agree with Biden... except for maybe the good looking comment. I'll have to defer to Friga or Stevew on that one.

[annie89509]

I always give people/positions the benefit of the doubt -- not draw a line on the sand right off the bat. Stayed up all last night listening to the news commentaries about this Palin selection. Yes, she's relatively young and inexperienced to the national political scene, but what a resume and set of accomplishments (problem-solving, reform, stood up to and stamped out corruption in HER OWN party - wow)! The people in Alaska say she's accomplished more in 1-1/2 yrs. as Gov than her predecessor did in 3 terms!

Obama talks about change and working for the people, but (imo) this lady trumps him by a mile. She not only talks the talk but walks the walk, too. Whoever posted that line about McCain being senile and desperate when he picked Palin as running mate is doing a disservice to both McCain and Palin.

As one political pundit said last night, if you're voting based on who has made the most executive decisions and who has faced the toughest challenges as a public servant, it would be Palin over any of the other 3 men.

Can't wait for the debates! Everybody is saying this will be the most exciting pres election ever seen in our lifetime. I'll have to agree. I guess the only one to rival this one is JFK's, and I was too young to know anything then.

[Rick]

I always give people/positions the benefit of the doubt -- not draw a line on the sand right off the bat. Stayed up all last night listening to the news commentaries about this Palin selection. Yes, she's relatively young and inexperienced to the national political scene, but what a resume and set of accomplishments (problem-solving, reform, stood up to and stamped out corruption in HER OWN party - wow)! The people in Alaska say she's accomplished more in 1-1/2 yrs. as Gov than her predecessor did in 3 terms!

Obama talks about change and working for the people, but (imo) this lady trumps him by a mile. She not only talks the talk but walks the walk, too. Whoever posted that line about McCain being senile and desperate when he picked Palin as running mate is doing a disservice to both McCain and Palin.

As one political pundit said last night, if you're voting based on who has made the most executive decisions and who has faced the toughest challenges as a public servant, it would be Palin over any of the other 3 men.

Can't wait for the debates! Everybody is saying this will be the most exciting pres election ever seen in our lifetime. I'll have to agree. I guess the only one to rival this one is JFK's, and I was too young to know anything then.

It will probably be the best voter turnout that the people of our age have known. You have a lot of dynamics working in this election to drive that.

I agree, it will be very interesting.

[annie89509]

I was just a toddler when JFK ran. From an historic perspective, I guess it was pretty significant at the time. JFK - young Catholic - against the old guard, Nixon. JFK won through the debates. Which will be what ultimately decides this election, too.

[7 Wishes]

If it was just about debates, Annie - and there was a time I would have agreed with you - Bush never would have "won" in 2000 or won in 2004.

Obama is lights-out compared to McCain when it comes to debating, but there's the whole "issue thing" (see GH Bush, 1988).

[Rick]

If it was just about debates, Annie - and there was a time I would have agreed with you - Bush never would have "won" in 2000 or won in 2004.

You've never spoken a more profound truth.

[conversationpc]

If it was just about debates, Annie - and there was a time I would have agreed with you - Bush never would have "won" in 2000 or won in 2004.

Obama is lights-out compared to McCain when it comes to debating, but there's the whole "issue thing" (see GH Bush, 1988).

I don't know...McCain seems to be better off the cuff than Obama. Obama has a very halting, nervous style when he is not prepared.

[annie89509]

Oh, I only meant it will come down to hearing what they "have to say" "in their debates." I see, lumping the JFK debates with these upcoming debates might have confused my point.

The race is very close. A lot of people have not decided who they want to vote for yet. We are all waiting to see/hear how the candidates fare against each other. The political ads are just pr and gross exageration stuff. Only the hardcore partyliners are swayed by those misleading statements against the opponent.

[separate_wayz]

Don't lecture me on open-mindedness. That is the problem.

I have lived in Europe, Asia...nine different countries in all. Never seen ANYTHING like the racism down here.

The worst racism I ever saw (and heard) was when I lived in Europe. What's worse, this explicit racism occurred as much among the educated Europeans as it did among the lower socio-economic status Europeans. The worst discussion was one German student who tried to lecture me on American racism toward Mexicans -- and within five minutes made grossly racist comments toward Turks that would've made David Duke blush. Unfortunately he wasn't the only one. The English look down their noses at "Asians" (Indians and Pakistanis) in the worst sort of way. The French treat North Africans like third-class citizens and ghettoize them.

Here's the difference, what you usually don't find among racist Americans compared with racist Europeans: that noxious self-righteousness and know-it-all smarmy attitude that suggests they can cast judgement on the rest of the world while not practicing what they preach. Europeans like to remind everyone (whether you want to hear it or not) that they are somehow the cradle of the world's civilization. Unfortunately for them, a lot of that great historic culture stays in museums under glass cases and has hardly any animating effect whatsoever on European thinking.

America, for all its problems, spends less time lecturing everyone else about treating people decently and more time opening its arms to the rest of the world's cast-offs and trying to give everyone an equal opportunity. America has more immigrants right now (39.7 million) than the entire population of the Netherlands, Belgium, and Denmark combined. (And between now and 2060, we'll add 100 million more immigrants, more than the entire current population of Germany.) Bottom line, for most Americans, if you as an immigrant mind your own business and work hard, you're welcome to be anybody's neighbor.

[7 Wishes]

Except Bulgarians. I HATE Bulgarians. They're EVERYWHERE, and they're annoying. Just like Andorrans and Liechtensteinians.

[Rick]

Don't lecture me on open-mindedness. That is the problem.

I have lived in Europe, Asia...nine different countries in all. Never seen ANYTHING like the racism down here.

The worst racism I ever saw (and heard) was when I lived in Europe. What's worse, this explicit racism occurred as much among the educated Europeans as it did among the lower socio-economic status Europeans. The worst discussion was one German student who tried to lecture me on American racism toward Mexicans -- and within five minutes made grossly racist comments toward Turks that would've made David Duke blush. Unfortunately he wasn't the only one. The English look down their noses at "Asians" (Indians and Pakistanis) in the worst sort of way. The French treat North Africans like third-class citizens and ghettoize them.

Here's the difference, what you usually don't find among racist Americans compared with racist Europeans: that noxious self-righteousness and know-it-all smarmy attitude that suggests they can cast judgement on the rest of the world while not practicing what they preach. Europeans like to remind everyone (whether you want to hear it or not) that they are somehow the cradle of the world's civilization. Unfortunately for them, a lot of that great historic culture stays in museums under glass cases and has hardly any animating effect whatsoever on European thinking.

America, for all its problems, spends less time lecturing everyone else about treating people decently and more time opening its arms to the rest of the world's cast-offs and trying to give everyone an equal opportunity. America has more immigrants right now (39.7 million) than the entire population of the Netherlands, Belgium, and Denmark combined. (And between now and 2060, we'll add 100 million more immigrants, more than the entire current population of Germany.) Bottom line, for most Americans, if you as an immigrant mind your own business and work hard, you're welcome to be anybody's neighbor.

It's just more pronounced in the U.S. because it's the U.S., sadly.

[Rick]

Except Bulgarians. I HATE Bulgarians. They're EVERYWHERE, and they're annoying. Just like Andorrans and Liechtensteinians.

[The_Noble_Cause]

I don't know...McCain seems to be better off the cuff than Obama. Obama has a very halting, nervous style when he is not prepared.

Obama at his worst is even more of a flannel mouth than Dubya.
And despite Frank Luntz's most concerted post-FOX debate spin, McCain didn't win shit.
The best debaters were the ones who got the least attention.
For this reason, it'll be nice to see Biden getting one last shot to maw someone's face clean off.

This was a rigged game, and you can lob rotten tomatoes all you want, but people like the late Tim Russert and George Stephanopoulos, who devoted an overwhelming amount of attention to the celebrity candidates, let this country down.

[conversationpc]

This was a rigged game, and you can lob rotten tomatoes all you want, but people like the late Tim Russert and George Stephanopoulos, who devoted an overwhelming amount of attention to the celebrity candidates, let this country down.

Good thing you're not in charge of determining what is and isn't treasonous behavior.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Good thing you're not in charge of determining what is and isn't treasonous behavior.

You can't continually kvetch about the relative inadequacies of both candidates, and give the Washington news bureau chiefs a pass.
They are the sheperds of what Joe Q. Public sees and hears.
In each case, celebrity candidates were pushed at the exclusion of more qualified others, while far too much of the time centered around trivial bullshit (UFOs, sports teams).

Good to see you treat your quadrennial civic rite with all the solemn gravity of picking the Frito crumbs out of your navel.

[7 Wishes]

The truth is McCain is essentially tied or trailing in every swing state that matters — and too close for comfort in several states like Indiana and Montana the GOP usually wins pretty easily in presidential races. On top of that, voters seem very inclined to elect Democrats in general this election — and very sick of the Bush years.

McCain could easily lose in an electoral landslide. That is the private view of Democrats and Republicans alike.

McCain’s pick shows he is not pretending. Politicians, even “mavericks” like McCain, play it safe when they think they are winning — or see an easy path to winning. They roll the dice only when they know that the risks of conventionality are greater than the risks of boldness.

The Republican brand is a mess. McCain is reasonably concluding that it won’t work to replicate George W. Bush and Karl Rove’s electoral formula, based around national security and a big advantage among Y chromosomes, from 2004.

Good luck, guys.

There are a lot of rah-rah posters here who will accept ANYTHING their party throws their way, but they are in a minority.

I'm not guaranteeing Obama will win, but polls and evidence strongly suggests McCain is a huge underdog.

[Sarah]

Just like Andorrans

I know, with their antennae and stuff... creepy


Oh wait.