A slightly different Poll here about SP2009

[EightyRock]

Cain and Perry came up with lyrics to DSB in a shared hotel room, in the middle of the night, while watching people still hanging around outside under the streetlights.

That is not correct. Jon Cain had a "skeleton" of that song for some time. Here the guys talk about it. It was obviously co-written, but it was also obviously Cain's "baby" and he told Perry what direction he wanted the lyrics to go in:



Jonathan Cain, the band’s keyboardist, found himself picking out a four-chord piano figure in the band’s Oakland, California, rehearsal hall. Perry liked what he heard and began improvising vocal melodies. Soon, guitarist Neal Schon joined in, working up a bass line and a churning little lead he wanted to sound “like a locomotive.” Before long, they had created the skeleton of a new song. “Like every great thing we ever wrote, it all came together in five minutes,” Schon recalls.

Cain had strong ideas about where the track needed to go. “I told Steve, ‘What you’re missing is you’re not relating to your fans. Let’s turn the mirror on them, write about their lives.’” Together, they came up with a narrative about two young lovers on a train trip, adding noirish images of smoke-filled nightclubs and shadowy streets — and a big, climactic chorus about holding fast to dreams. The result was an undeniable anthem with an unusual arrangement. It contains three verses and a pair of slow-boiling bridges (“Strangers waiting, up and down the boulevard”), but the actual chorus arrives in one soaring, emotional money-shot at the song’s end. “Don’t stop believin’/Hold on to that feelin’/Streetlight people,” Perry belts in his rippling, rock-operatic tenor.

Edit: I can't find the other article where Jon mentions that he already had decided on "Don't stop believin', hold on to that feeling" as the chorus. He is, undoubtedly, the main architect of DSB. This is, for all intents and purposes (to those with any logic), indisputable.

Sometime when I have time to hunt for it, I'll find another interview with Cain telling this story around the time it was actually written. Do you have the date on this history re-write of Cain's?

[Saint John]

Cain and Perry came up with lyrics to DSB in a shared hotel room, in the middle of the night, while watching people still hanging around outside under the streetlights.

That is not correct. Jon Cain had a "skeleton" of that song for some time. Here the guys talk about it. It was obviously co-written, but it was also obviously Cain's "baby" and he told Perry what direction he wanted the lyrics to go in:



Jonathan Cain, the band’s keyboardist, found himself picking out a four-chord piano figure in the band’s Oakland, California, rehearsal hall. Perry liked what he heard and began improvising vocal melodies. Soon, guitarist Neal Schon joined in, working up a bass line and a churning little lead he wanted to sound “like a locomotive.” Before long, they had created the skeleton of a new song. “Like every great thing we ever wrote, it all came together in five minutes,” Schon recalls.

Cain had strong ideas about where the track needed to go. “I told Steve, ‘What you’re missing is you’re not relating to your fans. Let’s turn the mirror on them, write about their lives.’” Together, they came up with a narrative about two young lovers on a train trip, adding noirish images of smoke-filled nightclubs and shadowy streets — and a big, climactic chorus about holding fast to dreams. The result was an undeniable anthem with an unusual arrangement. It contains three verses and a pair of slow-boiling bridges (“Strangers waiting, up and down the boulevard”), but the actual chorus arrives in one soaring, emotional money-shot at the song’s end. “Don’t stop believin’/Hold on to that feelin’/Streetlight people,” Perry belts in his rippling, rock-operatic tenor.

Edit: I can't find the other article where Jon mentions that he already had decided on "Don't stop believin', hold on to that feeling" as the chorus. He is, undoubtedly, the main architect of DSB. This is, for all intents and purposes (to those with any logic), indisputable.

Sometime when I have time to hunt for it, I'll find another interview with Cain telling this story around the time it was actually written. Do you have the date on this history re-write of Cain's?

There is no history re-write. What you're referring to is the way the song was finished up. It has always been known that Cain brought the four chord part and the chorus to the song, and that he and Perry did what you are referring to, afterward.

[Michigan Girl]

Sometime when I have time to hunt for it, I'll find another interview with Cain telling this story around the time it was actually written. Do you have the date on this history re-write of Cain's?

Yeah, I know of/heard another version of this myself!!!
Picture this...Perry, Looking out of a hotel window in South Detroit
after a show at Cobo, he sees people/strangers up and down the boulevard, in the night on
the streets of Detroit, possibly in search of their dealer's, but he
refers to them as Streetlight People........and on and on and on and oooonnn!!!

[Saint John]

"Don't Stop Believing" was originally brought in by Jonathan Cain, then Steve (Perry) and I contributed to it in rehearsal to finish it the way it is." -Neal Schon...March 20th, 2009

[Michigan Girl]

Yesterday?!? How convenient for you!!!

[Saint John]

Yesterday?!? How convenient for you!!!

http://www.honoluluadvertiser.com/artic ... ertainment

[Gideon]

....and you, just a bit past puberty would be an expert on personal relationships, I'm sure. Let's just stick to Journey and leave the personal barbs out of it, shall we?

Christ, you people are ridiculous. Your initial post to me was riddled with condescension and barbs; "Is it past your bed time jr?" springs immediately to mind. I took this in stride, playfully responded, and then dealt you one of my own. And your response is to take it personal?

If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the fucking kitchen. Never start something you can't finish.

To say OA wouldn't exist w/o Cain is dead wrong.

That's a grotesque and twisted perception of logic. Since "Open Arms" originated with Cain, how exactly is the statement "OA wouldn't exist w/o Cain" dead wrong?

OA wouldn't have existed if Perry hadn't insisted Cain pull the part he had written out of mothballs and they work on it, including write the lyrics.

That may or may not be true, but that still doesn't invalidate the claim that "Open Arms" wouldn't exist without Cain. Common sense should prevail at some point. If not for Cain, Perry would have nothing to convince Cain to pull out of "mothballs."

See?

See that is not very nice Gideon, won't win you any favors with personal attacks mate, things like that will only piss Andrew off, probably get you banned again at some point.

Neither was the condescension or "junior" remarks, but lo and behold, I took it in stride and moved on. And I have a hard time believing Andrew will ban me for making a joke (clearly designated as such) which was in response to something EightyRock started.

Selective vision here is epidemic. Amazing how this seventeen year old has the capability to take more shit than adults.

[Arianddu]

Why the hate, SJ?

No hate, ma'am. Just frustration at your insistence to want to split cu nt hairs.

Unless you or I know SP and have discussed this, it's just speculation or opinion about whether it's his favorite now.

Then why fucking talk about anything that anyone has ever said beacuse, for all we know, they may have changed their mind in the last 12 fucking seconds. You were wrong and won't admit it, and now you're acting like a fucking snobby ass-bag.

Don't know when the interview you're referring to was done and I'm sure SP can change his opinion.

You're just a beacon of enlightenment.

I've been known to change my opinion at times...from good to bad or from bad to good.

Well goody, goody gumdrops for you. How 'bout changing your diet to include about a shovel-full of arsenic.

Someone needs to take his vitamin B and go back to bed to get out on the other side!

[Arianddu]

Selective vision here is epidemic. Amazing how this seventeen year old has the capability to take more shit than adults.

That's because you are a teenager trying to behave like a grown up. There are a few people on this board who are middle-aged and still try to be the same people they were in College. Others, myself included, use this place as somewhere to relax and not have to be sober, responsible adults. No one likes pot-shots being taken at them, but you can either take them personally and ignore them, take them personally and launch a counter attack, laugh them off and ignore them, or laugh them off and respond in kind. I tend to the latter

Gideon - I don't agree with you on many things, and this is one of those times (for the record, I don't think the sun shines out of Perry's vocal chords, or that he wrote the Dawn Chorus; I think in terms of creative comparison between Cain and Perry, it's somewhere more in the middle than you or your opponents claim.) However, I do respect you for the attitude you take. When you were protesting being misinterpreted all the time, you actually looked at the criticism, constructive and otherwise, and took it on board. You don't stoop to infantile insults or poisonous mind games, and when you do engage in mudslinging, you prove you have a brain first and a mouth second, every time. That's worthy of my respect.

As to everyone who's throwing the 'Junior' tag around, lay off, ok? Gideon may not be old enough to vote, but he's more mature than a few regular posters on here. Find an insult a little more worthy of an intellectual fight, damn it!

[Gideon]

Thank you.

But the problem isn't being called junior. It's condescending, but I don't give a shit. Truthfully. Even at school and elsewhere (and Deacon can verify), I hurl and take insults with the best of them. But at least on my end, it's never personal. Ever. EightyRock didn't offend me until he started bitching after the fact. Stupidity offends me; if you have the temerity to initiate an attack, do not even think of whining when your opponent responds in kind.

[Arianddu]

Thank you.

But the problem isn't being called junior. It's condescending, but I don't give a shit. Truthfully. Even at school and elsewhere (and Deacon can verify), I hurl and take insults with the best of them. But at least on my end, it's never personal. Ever. EightyRock didn't offend me until he started bitching after the fact. Stupidity offends me; if you have the temerity to initiate an attack, do not even think of whining when your opponent responds in kind.

Hence the advice to find epithets more worthy of an intellectual battle.

Personally, I relish the opportunity to throw the real bone of contention to the winds and just lay into a verbal exchange of wits. The smarter the banter, the better. Nothing so stilting as a formal debate, but a real donnybrook of intelligent repartee, insults and no-holds barred laughing nastiness. With extra points for not using common obscentities. I've had a running email fight with my sister using only Elizabethan English that's been going for years - every so often we resurrect it for some fun. Recently I went back to the first email to remind myself of what the original argument was about. In the intervening time, we've both completely reversed our positions (not that the fun fight is about that topic any more; it's just a great opportunity for us to insult each other and flex our verbal muscles.)

[walkslikealady]

Sometimes when I argued with friends, I'd suddenly switch sides and start arguing for what I once argued against. Can be fun.

[stevew2]

Thank you.

But the problem isn't being called junior. It's condescending, but I don't give a shit. Truthfully. Even at school and elsewhere (and Deacon can verify), I hurl and take insults with the best of them. But at least on my end, it's never personal. Ever. EightyRock didn't offend me until he started bitching after the fact. Stupidity offends me; if you have the temerity to initiate an attack, do not even think of whining when your opponent responds in kind.

Hence the advice to find epithets more worthy of an intellectual battle.

Personally, I relish the opportunity to throw the real bone of contention to the winds and just lay into a verbal exchange of wits. The smarter the banter, the better. Nothing so stilting as a formal debate, but a real donnybrook of intelligent repartee, insults and no-holds barred laughing nastiness. With extra points for not using common obscentities. I've had a running email fight with my sister using only Elizabethan English that's been going for years - every so often we resurrect it for some fun. Recently I went back to the first email to remind myself of what the original argument was about. In the intervening time, we've both completely reversed our positions (not that the fun fight is about that topic any more; it's just a great opportunity for us to insult each other and flex our verbal muscles.)

i still wish you would display that awesome rack of yours

[Arianddu]

Thank you.

But the problem isn't being called junior. It's condescending, but I don't give a shit. Truthfully. Even at school and elsewhere (and Deacon can verify), I hurl and take insults with the best of them. But at least on my end, it's never personal. Ever. EightyRock didn't offend me until he started bitching after the fact. Stupidity offends me; if you have the temerity to initiate an attack, do not even think of whining when your opponent responds in kind.

Hence the advice to find epithets more worthy of an intellectual battle.

Personally, I relish the opportunity to throw the real bone of contention to the winds and just lay into a verbal exchange of wits. The smarter the banter, the better. Nothing so stilting as a formal debate, but a real donnybrook of intelligent repartee, insults and no-holds barred laughing nastiness. With extra points for not using common obscentities. I've had a running email fight with my sister using only Elizabethan English that's been going for years - every so often we resurrect it for some fun. Recently I went back to the first email to remind myself of what the original argument was about. In the intervening time, we've both completely reversed our positions (not that the fun fight is about that topic any more; it's just a great opportunity for us to insult each other and flex our verbal muscles.)

i still wish you would display that awesome rack of yours

I'll clear the shit off the cellar door, go down and take a photo for you . I want a cabernet-merlot for dinner tomorrow anyway.

[stevew2]

Thank you.

But the problem isn't being called junior. It's condescending, but I don't give a shit. Truthfully. Even at school and elsewhere (and Deacon can verify), I hurl and take insults with the best of them. But at least on my end, it's never personal. Ever. EightyRock didn't offend me until he started bitching after the fact. Stupidity offends me; if you have the temerity to initiate an attack, do not even think of whining when your opponent responds in kind.

Hence the advice to find epithets more worthy of an intellectual battle.

Personally, I relish the opportunity to throw the real bone of contention to the winds and just lay into a verbal exchange of wits. The smarter the banter, the better. Nothing so stilting as a formal debate, but a real donnybrook of intelligent repartee, insults and no-holds barred laughing nastiness. With extra points for not using common obscentities. I've had a running email fight with my sister using only Elizabethan English that's been going for years - every so often we resurrect it for some fun. Recently I went back to the first email to remind myself of what the original argument was about. In the intervening time, we've both completely reversed our positions (not that the fun fight is about that topic any more; it's just a great opportunity for us to insult each other and flex our verbal muscles.)

i still wish you would display that awesome rack of yours

I'll clear the shit off the cellar door, go down and take a photo for you . I want a cabernet-merlot for dinner tomorrow anyway.

You got it ,id cook you a nice tender steak to

[Arianddu]

i still wish you would display that awesome rack of yours

I'll clear the shit off the cellar door, go down and take a photo for you . I want a cabernet-merlot for dinner tomorrow anyway.

You got it ,id cook you a nice tender steak to

Now a good steak would do justice to a Barossa or McLarenvale Shiraz, but tomorrow I'm cooking veal in a cream and mushroom sauce, and an Aussie shiraz would just overwhelm it, hence the cab-merlot blend. Still debating whether to go with an Adelaide Hills or one from the Hunter. I might check out how my precious few bottles of viogner and barbarossa are doing too. Yes, I am a wine nerd (note - nerd not snob. Big difference.)

[stevew2]

i still wish you would display that awesome rack of yours

I'll clear the shit off the cellar door, go down and take a photo for you . I want a cabernet-merlot for dinner tomorrow anyway.

You got it ,id cook you a nice tender steak to

Now a good steak would do justice to a Barossa or McLarenvale Shiraz, but tomorrow I'm cooking veal in a cream and mushroom sauce, and an Aussie shiraz would just overwhelm it, hence the cab-merlot blend. Still debating whether to go with an Adelaide Hills or one from the Hunter. I might check out how my precious few bottles of viogner and barbarossa are doing too. Yes, I am a wine nerd (note - nerd not snob. Big difference.)

Im a wino, i dont eat veal at all,never

[SherriBerry]

Friga's time as chief candy-ass songster has been up for years, but that doesn't stop him. He still writes the cheesiest ballads on the planet, but he doesn't have Perry anymore to give them credibility.

You amuse me. Perry isn't half the writer Cain is.

Eh Giddy, the first round of condescension started with this particular comment in response to EightyRock - that's when he came back with the "Junior" comment. No one likes being on the receiving end of it and as you've noticed, it tends to get a person's back up rather quickly. You took it in stride with humour, but some may take it more personally based on their own life experiences.

[annie89509]

Sometime when I have time to hunt for it, I'll find another interview with Cain telling this story around the time it was actually written. Do you have the date on this history re-write of Cain's?

Yeah, I know of/heard another version of this myself!!!
Picture this...Perry, Looking out of a hotel window in South Detroit
after a show at Cobo, he sees people/strangers up and down the boulevard, in the night on
the streets of Detroit, possibly in search of their dealer's, but he
refers to them as Streetlight People........and on and on and on and oooonnn!!!

This is my understanding of how the song originated, too. Jon came up with the piano chords and title, Neal the guitar riffs. All 3 contributed on the lyrics.

I think there are some posters here who are trying to spin their own brand of revisionist history. Look up any of the interviews from Journey's heyday (no, not the ones they gave post-Perry). SP was the focal point to all these songs; JC and NS wrote to complement the Voice (and not the other way around).

Sometime, when I get a chance, I'm going to upload my audio old interviews collection, for anyone interested. Whenever they discussed how a song came about, it had SP's stamp all over it.

[Arianddu]

i still wish you would display that awesome rack of yours

I'll clear the shit off the cellar door, go down and take a photo for you . I want a cabernet-merlot for dinner tomorrow anyway.

You got it ,id cook you a nice tender steak to

Now a good steak would do justice to a Barossa or McLarenvale Shiraz, but tomorrow I'm cooking veal in a cream and mushroom sauce, and an Aussie shiraz would just overwhelm it, hence the cab-merlot blend. Still debating whether to go with an Adelaide Hills or one from the Hunter. I might check out how my precious few bottles of viogner and barbarossa are doing too. Yes, I am a wine nerd (note - nerd not snob. Big difference.)

Im a wino, i dont eat veal at all,never

Baby cow not to your taste? How 'bout baby goat? Because I have some great recipes for kid.

[Shadowsong]

i still wish you would display that awesome rack of yours

I'll clear the shit off the cellar door, go down and take a photo for you . I want a cabernet-merlot for dinner tomorrow anyway.

You got it ,id cook you a nice tender steak to

Now a good steak would do justice to a Barossa or McLarenvale Shiraz, but tomorrow I'm cooking veal in a cream and mushroom sauce, and an Aussie shiraz would just overwhelm it, hence the cab-merlot blend. Still debating whether to go with an Adelaide Hills or one from the Hunter. I might check out how my precious few bottles of viogner and barbarossa are doing too. Yes, I am a wine nerd (note - nerd not snob. Big difference.)

Oooohh viogner.. & you sure know your Aussie wines...

[Arianddu]

Sometime when I have time to hunt for it, I'll find another interview with Cain telling this story around the time it was actually written. Do you have the date on this history re-write of Cain's?

Yeah, I know of/heard another version of this myself!!!
Picture this...Perry, Looking out of a hotel window in South Detroit
after a show at Cobo, he sees people/strangers up and down the boulevard, in the night on
the streets of Detroit, possibly in search of their dealer's, but he
refers to them as Streetlight People........and on and on and on and oooonnn!!!

This is my understanding of how the song originated, too. Jon came up with the piano chords and title, Neal the guitar riffs. All 3 contributed on the lyrics.

I think there are some posters here who are trying to spin their own brand of revisionist history. Look up any of the interviews from Journey's heyday (no, not the ones they gave post-Perry). SP was the focal point to all these songs; JC and NS wrote to complement the Voice (and not the other way around).

Sometime, when I get a chance, I'm going to upload my audio old interviews collection, for anyone interested. Whenever they discussed how a song came about, it had SP's stamp all over it.

Definitely. Fan speculation is a lot of fun, but I'd always prefer to base my opinions on primary sources.

[SherriBerry]

:lol: I'm trying to remember where I saw a clip of someone throwing panties at the stage and they actually got caught on the neck of Neal's guitar. His roadie had to come out and pull them off as it was mid-song and Neal was standing there playing with panties on his guitar and trying not to laugh! It was during the Perry-era, but I'm not sure which tour. If anyone has a link to the clip, it was really funny.

Ive seen that clip too. But, I believe it was a Bra and it is on Frontiers and Beyond video.

Found the clip: watch for Neal's solo at the 2:00 mark - it's still funny :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V32jQZvTAEg&feature=related

[Arianddu]

i still wish you would display that awesome rack of yours

I'll clear the shit off the cellar door, go down and take a photo for you . I want a cabernet-merlot for dinner tomorrow anyway.

You got it ,id cook you a nice tender steak to

Now a good steak would do justice to a Barossa or McLarenvale Shiraz, but tomorrow I'm cooking veal in a cream and mushroom sauce, and an Aussie shiraz would just overwhelm it, hence the cab-merlot blend. Still debating whether to go with an Adelaide Hills or one from the Hunter. I might check out how my precious few bottles of viogner and barbarossa are doing too. Yes, I am a wine nerd (note - nerd not snob. Big difference.)

Oooohh viogner.. & you sure know your Aussie wines...

I should do, I used to work in the industry!

[EightyRock]

"Don't Stop Believing" was originally brought in by Jonathan Cain, then Steve (Perry) and I contributed to it in rehearsal to finish it the way it is." -Neal Schon...March 20th, 2009

LMAO!! Quoted by the essence of truth himself....Neal Schon....in 2009, no less! Yeah, SJ, I'm a believer now! You believe your version and I'll stick with mine, since it was from an interview around the time the song was actually written. I don't need Cain or Schon's revised version of the band's history. I've been watching this movie long enough to know they revise everything to fit their current situation, as it changes so frequently, along with their singers. Perhaps, if they could find one talented enough to actually write something as good as their classic songs with them, they could stop feeling the need to rewrite history.

[Saint John]

Before tracking that album, Journey worked 11-to-6, five days a week in an Oakland, Calif., warehouse, writing and then rehearsing the new material. “It was a great time with me and Steve Perry,” Cain says. “He could have said, ‘Screw you, I'm going to write this, you're the new guy, get out of here,' but he didn't. It was the wonderful thing of ‘What can we do together to make this better?' It was probably the third or fourth song I wrote with them.

“I brought in the chorus, the last out-chorus — ‘Don't stop believin', hold on to that feelin”, and I think I had ‘streetlights people.' I showed it to Steve [Perry] and I believe Neal [Schon] came up with the bass line. It was Steve Perry's idea that, since it was my chorus, I should chime in with some sort of piano thing that sounded like we were going somewhere. I put that [strident intro] on top of Neal's bass [motif] line, and then Steve started scatting on that. Steve looked at Neal, and said, ‘Okay, now you have to sound like a train' and he did that guitar in between the verses — the 16th arpeggio.

[Michigan Girl]

Perhaps SP just dropped the "S" then?!?!?

Sounds like teamwork to me!!!

[Saint John]

Perhaps SP just dropped the "S" then?!?!?

Sounds like teamwork to me!!!

No one is arguing that it wasn't "teamwork," MG. Pay attention please. I conceded that the song was created by Schon, Perry and Cain. What I'm arguing is that Jon Cain already had the 4 part keys intro and the chorus and, because of that, he is the main architect of the song. At the same time, there is also no doubt that the song probably wouldn't have done shit without Perry's vox. But that's all a moot point if Cain never introduces the concept in the first place.

[Ehwmatt]

Perry-Schon-Cain together are one of the greatest songwriting teams ever. You take just one of them away or even leave them on their own and the results are inferior. Most great songwriting teams are the same way. In fact, the only two songwriters I can think of that wrote equally well solo as together is Randy Bachman and Burton Cummings.

And for what it's worth, generally, a great song is a great song. Suggesting that a pop song as well-crafted as DSB wouldn't have done ANYTHING without SP's voice is probably not right.

[Michigan Girl]

Perhaps SP just dropped the "S" then?!?!?

Sounds like teamwork to me!!!

" MG. Pay attention please.

Oh!!!