Kevin Shirley - The MelodicRock Interview

[Melissa]

Ok the reason I found it amusing is because I can only imagine what that must have been like for the current two alphas. Yes I said two, lol.

If they do plan to take the band in a more harder rock direction, then there was no reason to have found AP, in my humble opinion. JSS would have been the way to go with that, again just my humble opinion. One of those two didn't seem happy with that more "hard rock" direction though, so I don't see where that same one of those two would be happy about a more hard rock direction now either So I guess it will be interesting to see if that's really what happens.

[Saint John]

I could elaborate and clarify my earlier post but it wouldn't be too flattering to certain people in and around the band...but suffice it to say, if you trip and fall into a bunch of shit and come out smelling like a rose enough times, you're not going to wonder too much about why you keep falling into shit...you're just going to start believing that the pile of shit actually does smell like roses...not sure if that's a clear metaphor, but I tried to steer clear of the African three way references, LOL

If I may take a stab at translating this, sir ... Mr Schon's douchery has been rewarded with fortuitous breaks enough times that he actually thinks he knows what the fuck he's doing. Fair translation?

[Jeremey]

I could elaborate and clarify my earlier post but it wouldn't be too flattering to certain people in and around the band...but suffice it to say, if you trip and fall into a bunch of shit and come out smelling like a rose enough times, you're not going to wonder too much about why you keep falling into shit...you're just going to start believing that the pile of shit actually does smell like roses...not sure if that's a clear metaphor, but I tried to steer clear of the African three way references, LOL

If I may take a stab at translating this, sir ... Mr Schon's douchery has been rewarded with fortuitous breaks enough times that he actually thinks he knows what the fuck he's doing. Fair translation?

LOL...combine that with a surplus of "yes men" who want nothing but to collect their million dollar commission check every year while spending their time actually managing other artists with relevant careers, and you may have what I like to call...no comment...

[Michigan Girl]

Or, it could refer to the fact that someone had to keep the band focused when other personalities tend to skip around all over the place...it doesn't sound like Kevin meant that as a bad thing.

This is exactly the way I understood it!! Furthermore; I
feel as though the band depended on him to be the Alpha Dog!!

[FamilyMan]

"He had the ball, he was runnin' with it, and we just let the reins go."
Anyone remember that?

[marco17]

No arguments here. I thnk Perry probably was the most cohesive member of the band, but I also think he was probably the only one that wouldn't budge on something he felt uncomfortable with. And, in the end, that uncomfortablitity was rock music .. and Journey is a rock band. He should have never came back in 1996. His motives weren't genuine.

That said, day after day, it is sounding like Neal is hell bent on a certain direction and redefining the band. I think ROR and TBF, and Augeri's inabaility to ever sing at a high level left him one unhappy motherfucker for almost 25 years, and he now has what he thinks are the components to really rock hard. It's a huge risk and I wouldn't be surprised at all if this album is much harder than anything Journey has ever done. I also wouldn't be surprised if it alienates a lot of the ballad side of the fan base. The million dollar question is whether or not there are enough people out there that will be interested to make up for the ballad fans they're gonna lose and is the material strong enough to make people take notice. It's s huge risk and, being a huge fan of balanced albums with rockers, mid-tempo numbers and a few ballads, I'm interested to see if I like the new album. If I had to bet on it, I'd say probably not. I guess we just have to wait.[/quote]

Dan, I totally get this, and Neal being all bitter, but I would just wonder why Neal would have held on to SA as long as he did knowing there were the live performance issues. At that point, while continuing to tour the band wasn't relevent enough that if they'd replaced him sooner, it really would have made a big difference. I can only guess that Cain pushed to keep him on?? Either way, it will be interesting to see what the new album briings.

[FamilyMan]

I may be in the minority here, but I could listen to tracks like "The Revelation," "With a Tear," and "Majestic" all day and all night. Even the preamble to "Any Way You Want It" on the live Revelation DVD is awesome. If that's where this so-called concept allbum is going, with Neal leading the way, sign me up Walmart.

[Jeremey]

I may be in the minority here, but I could listen to tracks like "The Revelation," "With a Tear," and "Majestic" all day and all night. Even the preamble to "Any Way You Want It" on the live Revelation DVD is awesome. If that's where this so-called concept allbum is going, with Neal leading the way, sign me up Walmart.

For me, it's not a matter of whether the CD is RED 14 or the next coming of Departure, I'll listen like I always have and move on to something different. I don't listen to a whole lot of Journey, Perry or no.

The real story here, to me at least, is if the apparently overwhelming friction in the band has finally become too much to bear for some involved and what the future of the band may be. Like I said earlier, it looks like Kevin's washed his hands of the band at this point, and was frustrated enough at least not to sugar coat his feeling on things. While he's been more outspoken than a lot of producers in the past, it still seems pretty uncharacteristic to voice those frustrations in an interview and certainly doesn't point to a happy ending....

[jrnyjetster]

IF I didn't know better from reading this thread, it sure seems like a few of you here really want this new Journey effort to fail. We shall see...I will hold my opinions until I have the CD in hand and actually listen to it, whenever that is.

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!

John D.

[timstar78]

Good read, Andrew. Look forward to part 2.

I agree that there is something strange in his desire not to discuss the Journey project. I don't know if it is a good reflection on the music, or a bad one. I'd probably say more the latter.

You know, producers all have their different philosophies and styles. It would seem Mutt Lange's philosophy is in direct contrast to Shirley's methodology. And one producer's style might be a good fit for one band, but it might not be the best fit for another. I've been listening to the new Mr. Big album for about a week and a half now. I have a long history with this band, as I've been a fan since their inception and I hold them all in high regards as players, especially Paul, who I studied with when I went to MI. But the album, from a song standpoint, feels like it was cut in 10 days, which is to say I think it is rushed in certain areas. There are a couple of songs that are excellent -- I love "Undertow," "All The Way Up" and "Stranger In My Life" has been growing on me. But overall, while the musicianship is superb, as to be expected, I feel that it is lacking from a song standpoint.

I think Eric is in fine voice, but why not let him have the opportunity to sing and comp vocal takes?. A studio album is forever, why not do what needs to be done to get the best performances, rather than cutting it all live for the sake of cutting it all live? Not saying that Eric doesn't give a fine showing, but...I don't know.

I guess my questions to Shirley regarding Mr. Big would be, what was the rush? Why not take more time? Why not write more songs? Why not track the band live, and then let Eric go back and sing them again if he wanted?

These are all my preliminary thoughts, perhaps the album will grow on me. But at this juncture, I don't think "What If" is as good as their last studio album with Richie Kotzen, the excellent "Actual Size," and I don't know that it holds up to their first three albums.

And no matter how many times he says he's not meaning to be arrogant, he still came off a bit that way. At least, he did to me.

[Deb]

Loved the alpha dog comments... lol

Woof!

[this guy] is gonna hate that.


Deb will be in Heaven with all the Mr. Big dish.

And you gotta know I'm snagging that last line for my sig.

[Deb]

I think Eric is in fine voice, but why not let him have the opportunity to sing and comp vocal takes?. A studio album is forever, why not do what needs to be done to get the best performances, rather than cutting it all live for the sake of cutting it all live? Not saying that Eric doesn't give a fine showing, but...I don't know.

I guess my questions to Shirley regarding Mr. Big would be, what was the rush? Why not take more time? Why not write more songs? Why not track the band live, and then let Eric go back and sing them again if he wanted?

These are all my preliminary thoughts, perhaps the album will grow on me. But at this juncture, I don't think "What If" is as good as their last studio album with Richie Kotzen, the excellent "Actual Size," and I don't know that it holds up to their first three albums.

And no matter how many times he says he's not meaning to be arrogant, he still came off a bit that way. At least, he did to me.

Part of me agrees with those thoughts, part of me doesn't. As for the raw live feel of it, I love it. It DOES sound like EM and the guys live. Except for a couple songs that are a bit too heavy for my liking and IMO are just a bunch of showboating. But then Hey Man is my favorite album for pretty much a vocal reason, Eric's voice is out front and GREAT on that album, of course I like the songs too, but I think it's some of his best MB studio vocals. I think they had LOTS of songs, but it sounds like Kevin had a lot to do with what songs (i.e., this one sounds too much like this one, this doesn't sound like MB, etc...) that made it. It was nice to hear the props for 2 (Stranger In My Live & Kill Me With a Kiss) of the 3 that EM wrote.

As for Actual Size, loved it too, but I just knew this one was going to be much heavier with Paul and Billy competing again. And from interviews and footage(dvd) etc I've heard/seen recently, I have a feeling Billy is still the underlying Alpha dog in MB. Loved watching Paul and Eric (dvd) trade ideas back and forth on the song Nobody Takes The Blame. Just my opinion, but I would like to have seen more of EM's and PG's songs make the album. But either way, I'm still happy to be hearing something new from them again.

[Don]

What was the hurry for? The band already missed the boat surrundind DSB, why spend a year making an album and then start rushing it to the point of bringing in someone else to mix it?


Did Cain make that phone call too?

[FamilyMan]

IF I didn't know better from reading this thread, it sure seems like a few of you here really want this new Journey effort to fail. We shall see...I will hold my opinions until I have the CD in hand and actually listen to it, whenever that is.

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!

John D.

I'm certainly not one of those rooting for a failure. If this one fails, I'd fear there would not be another...

[timstar78]

Part of me agrees with those thoughts, part of me doesn't. As for the raw live feel of it, I love it. It DOES sound like EM and the guys live. Except for a couple songs that are a bit too heavy for my liking and IMO are just a bunch of showboating. But then Hey Man is my favorite album for pretty much a vocal reason, Eric's voice is out front and GREAT on that album, of course I like the songs too, but I think it's some of his best MB studio vocals. I think they had LOTS of songs, but it sounds like Kevin had a lot to do with what songs (i.e., this one sounds too much like this one, this doesn't sound like MB, etc...) that made it. It was nice to hear the props for 2 (Stranger In My Live & Kill Me With a Kiss) of the 3 that EM wrote.

As for Actual Size, loved it too, but I just knew this one was going to be much heavier with Paul and Billy competing again. And from interviews and footage(dvd) etc I've heard/seen recently, I have a feeling Billy is still the underlying Alpha dog in MB. Loved watching Paul and Eric (dvd) trade ideas back and forth on the song Nobody Takes The Blame. Just my opinion, but I would like to have seen more of EM's and PG's songs make the album. But either way, I'm still happy to be hearing something new from them again.

By all accounts I've read and heard, the band did have a great time recording the album. (Here's another new interview with Paul.) And I am very much looking forward to checking out the Making of DVDs. I love that kind of footage and wish more of my favorite bands did it.

Make no mistake, I am glad the boys are back and hope this will be the start of a cycle of new albums and tours. And MB with Kotzen was surely a different sound. But these are my initial thoughts....like I said, I am hoping this album grows on me.

Most of all, I just don't understand why it was absolutely necessary to cut the album in 10 days.

[G.I.Jim]

KS INTERVIEW - PART 1 ONLINE NOW:

www.melodicrock.com/interviews/kevinshi ... Part1.html

Andrew, I'll go ahead and volunteer my time to proof read part two for you for free. I'd like to make sure there are no typos of course. Just let me know when you want me to get started on that.

[Don]

Where's the partying, where's the booze and fun that we heard about during the sessions with Maiden and others?

Is Journey turning into a Christian band with their new direction on this upcoming release?
Someone needs to give Neal an Irish Carbomb, like right now.

You promised a hard rock album, make it happen.

[Rockindeano]

Where's the partying, where's the booze and fun that we heard about during the sessions with Maiden and others?

Is Journey turning into a Christian band with their new direction on this upcoming release?
Someone needs to give Neal an Irish Carbomb, like right now.

You promised a hard rock album, make it happen.

Hahaha.

Look, Journey doesn't do well when they try to "rock hard." They just aren't good at that. I also disagree with Dan- Journey really isn't a rock band. I would call them a pop band, with a slight edge, and that's ok too. They arguably do pop music(or did), as good as anyone.

I of course have no idea, and nobody does by the way, but this internal band dustup is likely attributed to the pace of the music...I would think Schon is arguing for rock and Friga fluff pop. I would assume they will settle on something in the middle, thus presenting a Journey album like all the others- moderate pop pace.

One last thing Donald Son- I also disagree with your assertion that if Espee ever did anytghing with a Journey member, it would be Cain. I absolutely disagree with that. Perry and Schon have something together, something Friga never had with Perry. if Perry ever did something it would definitely be with Neal Joseph.

[Rockindeano]

Part of me agrees with those thoughts, part of me doesn't. As for the raw live feel of it, I love it. It DOES sound like EM and the guys live. Except for a couple songs that are a bit too heavy for my liking and IMO are just a bunch of showboating. But then Hey Man is my favorite album for pretty much a vocal reason, Eric's voice is out front and GREAT on that album, of course I like the songs too, but I think it's some of his best MB studio vocals. I think they had LOTS of songs, but it sounds like Kevin had a lot to do with what songs (i.e., this one sounds too much like this one, this doesn't sound like MB, etc...) that made it. It was nice to hear the props for 2 (Stranger In My Live & Kill Me With a Kiss) of the 3 that EM wrote.

As for Actual Size, loved it too, but I just knew this one was going to be much heavier with Paul and Billy competing again. And from interviews and footage(dvd) etc I've heard/seen recently, I have a feeling Billy is still the underlying Alpha dog in MB. Loved watching Paul and Eric (dvd) trade ideas back and forth on the song Nobody Takes The Blame. Just my opinion, but I would like to have seen more of EM's and PG's songs make the album. But either way, I'm still happy to be hearing something new from them again.

By all accounts I've read and heard, the band did have a great time recording the album. (Here's another new interview with Paul.) And I am very much looking forward to checking out the Making of DVDs. I love that kind of footage and wish more of my favorite bands did it.

Make no mistake, I am glad the boys are back and hope this will be the start of a cycle of new albums and tours. And MB with Kotzen was surely a different sound. But these are my initial thoughts....like I said, I am hoping this album grows on me.

Most of all, I just don't understand why it was [b]absolutely necessary to cut the album in 10 days.[b/]

Money. Journey doesn't have alot of it. The overhead is astronomical, and these aren't the days of Escape and the 80's where Herbie had a money tree in the Nightmare back lot.

[steveo777]

Part of me agrees with those thoughts, part of me doesn't. As for the raw live feel of it, I love it. It DOES sound like EM and the guys live. Except for a couple songs that are a bit too heavy for my liking and IMO are just a bunch of showboating. But then Hey Man is my favorite album for pretty much a vocal reason, Eric's voice is out front and GREAT on that album, of course I like the songs too, but I think it's some of his best MB studio vocals. I think they had LOTS of songs, but it sounds like Kevin had a lot to do with what songs (i.e., this one sounds too much like this one, this doesn't sound like MB, etc...) that made it. It was nice to hear the props for 2 (Stranger In My Live & Kill Me With a Kiss) of the 3 that EM wrote.

As for Actual Size, loved it too, but I just knew this one was going to be much heavier with Paul and Billy competing again. And from interviews and footage(dvd) etc I've heard/seen recently, I have a feeling Billy is still the underlying Alpha dog in MB. Loved watching Paul and Eric (dvd) trade ideas back and forth on the song Nobody Takes The Blame. Just my opinion, but I would like to have seen more of EM's and PG's songs make the album. But either way, I'm still happy to be hearing something new from them again.

By all accounts I've read and heard, the band did have a great time recording the album. (Here's another new interview with Paul.) And I am very much looking forward to checking out the Making of DVDs. I love that kind of footage and wish more of my favorite bands did it.

Make no mistake, I am glad the boys are back and hope this will be the start of a cycle of new albums and tours. And MB with Kotzen was surely a different sound. But these are my initial thoughts....like I said, I am hoping this album grows on me.

Most of all, I just don't understand why it was [b]absolutely necessary to cut the album in 10 days.[b/]

Money. Journey doesn't have alot of it. The overhead is astronomical, and these aren't the days of Escape and the 80's where Herbie had a money tree in the Nightmare back lot.

Cain is fine
Arnel is fine
Neal is probably living paycheck to paycheck
Ross is a line away from the soup kitchen (or a banana peel away from the grave)
Deen has Ferrari's he could sell.

[RossValoryRocks]

Part of me agrees with those thoughts, part of me doesn't. As for the raw live feel of it, I love it. It DOES sound like EM and the guys live. Except for a couple songs that are a bit too heavy for my liking and IMO are just a bunch of showboating. But then Hey Man is my favorite album for pretty much a vocal reason, Eric's voice is out front and GREAT on that album, of course I like the songs too, but I think it's some of his best MB studio vocals. I think they had LOTS of songs, but it sounds like Kevin had a lot to do with what songs (i.e., this one sounds too much like this one, this doesn't sound like MB, etc...) that made it. It was nice to hear the props for 2 (Stranger In My Live & Kill Me With a Kiss) of the 3 that EM wrote.

As for Actual Size, loved it too, but I just knew this one was going to be much heavier with Paul and Billy competing again. And from interviews and footage(dvd) etc I've heard/seen recently, I have a feeling Billy is still the underlying Alpha dog in MB. Loved watching Paul and Eric (dvd) trade ideas back and forth on the song Nobody Takes The Blame. Just my opinion, but I would like to have seen more of EM's and PG's songs make the album. But either way, I'm still happy to be hearing something new from them again.

By all accounts I've read and heard, the band did have a great time recording the album. (Here's another new interview with Paul.) And I am very much looking forward to checking out the Making of DVDs. I love that kind of footage and wish more of my favorite bands did it.

Make no mistake, I am glad the boys are back and hope this will be the start of a cycle of new albums and tours. And MB with Kotzen was surely a different sound. But these are my initial thoughts....like I said, I am hoping this album grows on me.

Most of all, I just don't understand why it was [b]absolutely necessary to cut the album in 10 days.[b/]

Money. Journey doesn't have alot of it. The overhead is astronomical, and these aren't the days of Escape and the 80's where Herbie had a money tree in the Nightmare back lot.

Cain is fine
Arnel is fine
Neal is probably living paycheck to paycheck
Ross is a line away from the soup kitchen (or a banana peel away from the grave)
Deen has Ferrari's he could sell.

No offense to anyone, but I love people commenting on things they just aren't applying common sense to in regards to Journey, especially the money situation.

While certainly NOT pulling the money in they did back in the heyday, I would wager they all make more money than anyone posting here, and are doing rather well.

Touring makes a LOT of money for bands...A LOT of money, MILLIONS...Journey has been succesfully touring for most the last 12 years or so, and I doubt they are hurting, even Neal will the alimony payments.

[slucero]

Shirley refuses to talk about the J-boys at all, yet gushes about Mr. Big... even though they are MORE difficult to work with???


That says enough right there...

[steveo777]

Part of me agrees with those thoughts, part of me doesn't. As for the raw live feel of it, I love it. It DOES sound like EM and the guys live. Except for a couple songs that are a bit too heavy for my liking and IMO are just a bunch of showboating. But then Hey Man is my favorite album for pretty much a vocal reason, Eric's voice is out front and GREAT on that album, of course I like the songs too, but I think it's some of his best MB studio vocals. I think they had LOTS of songs, but it sounds like Kevin had a lot to do with what songs (i.e., this one sounds too much like this one, this doesn't sound like MB, etc...) that made it. It was nice to hear the props for 2 (Stranger In My Live & Kill Me With a Kiss) of the 3 that EM wrote.

As for Actual Size, loved it too, but I just knew this one was going to be much heavier with Paul and Billy competing again. And from interviews and footage(dvd) etc I've heard/seen recently, I have a feeling Billy is still the underlying Alpha dog in MB. Loved watching Paul and Eric (dvd) trade ideas back and forth on the song Nobody Takes The Blame. Just my opinion, but I would like to have seen more of EM's and PG's songs make the album. But either way, I'm still happy to be hearing something new from them again.

By all accounts I've read and heard, the band did have a great time recording the album. (Here's another new interview with Paul.) And I am very much looking forward to checking out the Making of DVDs. I love that kind of footage and wish more of my favorite bands did it.

Make no mistake, I am glad the boys are back and hope this will be the start of a cycle of new albums and tours. And MB with Kotzen was surely a different sound. But these are my initial thoughts....like I said, I am hoping this album grows on me.

Most of all, I just don't understand why it was [b]absolutely necessary to cut the album in 10 days.[b/]

Money. Journey doesn't have alot of it. The overhead is astronomical, and these aren't the days of Escape and the 80's where Herbie had a money tree in the Nightmare back lot.

Cain is fine
Arnel is fine
Neal is probably living paycheck to paycheck
Ross is a line away from the soup kitchen (or a banana peel away from the grave)
Deen has Ferrari's he could sell.

No offense to anyone, but I love people commenting on things they just aren't applying common sense to in regards to Journey, especially the money situation.

While certainly NOT pulling the money in they did back in the heyday, I would wager they all make more money than anyone posting here, and are doing rather well.

Touring makes a LOT of money for bands...A LOT of money, MILLIONS...Journey has been succesfully touring for most the last 12 years or so, and I doubt they are hurting, even Neal will the alimony payments.

Well, my post was meant to be sarcastic, unless your underwear are so up your crack and eating your ass out that you just didn't get it.

Shirley refuses to talk about the J-boys at all, yet gushes about Mr. Big... even though they are MORE difficult to work with???


That says enough right there...

Maybe Shirley has lost the edge. This could mean that Journey's next album is great.

[kgdjpubs]

All I gotta say Dan....yes, I saw the post before you deleted it... Is that singing is buttloads more difficult than playing any other instrument. If he couldn't sing it in one take, or live - so what?! Which begs the next question Perhaps that is why we never got a TBF Tour....

There are a shitload of songs that are cut and pasted on that album, and there isn't one song on tha album that's difficult to sing (though it is very hard to stay awake through the entire album!). Anyone can hit those notes. So, yes, I think that's why you/we never saw a tour that year. If he couldn't blaze through those terribly easy vocals, there's no way he could have even attempted the older songs. He couldn't sing them all that well during ROR and had to "speed" his way through many of them, he had to tune down a half step and eliminate songs during FTLOSM and in 1996 he realized it was all over, as far as singing live went. And the undeniable proof of that is in the puddding ... the almost 15 years since with zero live performances.

note: technical discussion coming....

There are several reasons for doing a comp for vocals....and not being able to physically sing the song in one take is usually the least of them. Safe to say Perry is a perfectionist. I'm a perfectionist also, and have recorded narration for videos. It's not singing, but it's pretty similar in parts. You are going for certain inflections and tones, etc. I've done over 100 takes for a particular line of narration when I was starting out. These days, I might get it on the first time, or maybe up to 10 takes on an annoying day. This is talking about a single sentence or two---not a 5 minute song. Sure, "magic" occasionally happens, and you get that one take on a long piece that just works and you have no complaints about....but it's rare--even for the pros. Any competant singer knows exactly what they want, and exactly what they want to sound like, and they are hearing things that the average fan could never tell the difference between. Some of it is just knowing your voice that well, and the difference between what you are giving, and what you are capable of.

The good part about doing a comp is that you can get all those little inflections and things and make them perfect. The bad part--for a song--is that sometimes you lose the heart of the performance and it can sound rather put together and stale. Being a pro, and having a good producer, tends to smooth out the bad part. With studio time being so expensive, you can get the perfect vocal on a single take, but it's just easier to do a comp. 99% of the people would never be able to tell the difference, and it's a lot cheaper unless you just happen to catch that magic moment. It has NOTHING to do with whether the singer can or cannot physically sing the song in one take.

[kgdjpubs]

Shirley refuses to talk about the J-boys at all, yet gushes about Mr. Big... even though they are MORE difficult to work with???


That says enough right there...

here's the way I see this...

In the old days, you had 3 very strong personalities...
Perry, who left to his own, would make a Motown-influenced pop rock album. See Raised on Radio.
Schon would make the pure hard rock album.
Cain would do the ballad and love songs album.
Reign the three of them in, and you get "Journey". Schon's rock tendencies, mixed with Cain's lyrics and melodies.....and Perry's soulful approach to rearranging vocal melodies on top of it. Combine the three successfully, and you could get magic. Having successful albums helps because you don't want to rock the boat too far and potentially lose fans--and everybody knows it.

These days, Perry's out of the equation. So, you have Schon and Cain fighting it out as to who wins. You also have a natural re-establishment of the pecking order. Do you get the soft ballad album or the hard rock album? Put the whole thing closer to the end of the band's career than the beginning, with recent material failing to get a tremendous amount of radio airplay, and people are willing to push harder than usual, because who knows if they will get another chance, and they want the chance to make their perfect idea of a "Journey album". It's a pretty tension-filled environment. It can be good tension sometimes. Other times, it can be pretty unbearable for everyone involved.

Now, put yourself in the middle trying to find "Journey" between the two extremes, and people unwilling to budge on either side. It's not an easy job. That's Kevin Shirley's job. Sounds like he's burned out from dealing with it. I was extremely burned out after making one video production. Got in well over my head, and it was just a continuous fight after fight from start to finish. When it was done, I didn't want to deal with it, talk about it or anything. I was simply drained and didn't have anything left. Looking back, I'm very proud of what I accomplished, but at the time, you might have never known it. Maybe that's what is going on here--maybe not.

The end result may be genius. It may be a flop. It could be both. That happens also. It will be interesting to hear the final product.

[RossValoryRocks]

Shirley refuses to talk about the J-boys at all, yet gushes about Mr. Big... even though they are MORE difficult to work with???


That says enough right there...

here's the way I see this...

In the old days, you had 3 very strong personalities...
Perry, who left to his own, would make a Motown-influenced pop rock album. See Raised on Radio.
Schon would make the pure hard rock album.
Cain would do the ballad and love songs album.
Reign the three of them in, and you get "Journey". Schon's rock tendencies, mixed with Cain's lyrics and melodies.....and Perry's soulful approach to rearranging vocal melodies on top of it. Combine the three successfully, and you could get magic. Having successful albums helps because you don't want to rock the boat too far and potentially lose fans--and everybody knows it.

These days, Perry's out of the equation. So, you have Schon and Cain fighting it out as to who wins. You also have a natural re-establishment of the pecking order. Do you get the soft ballad album or the hard rock album? Put the whole thing closer to the end of the band's career than the beginning, with recent material failing to get a tremendous amount of radio airplay, and people are willing to push harder than usual, because who knows if they will get another chance, and they want the chance to make their perfect idea of a "Journey album". It's a pretty tension-filled environment. It can be good tension sometimes. Other times, it can be pretty unbearable for everyone involved.

Now, put yourself in the middle trying to find "Journey" between the two extremes, and people unwilling to budge on either side. It's not an easy job. That's Kevin Shirley's job. Sounds like he's burned out from dealing with it. I was extremely burned out after making one video production. Got in well over my head, and it was just a continuous fight after fight from start to finish. When it was done, I didn't want to deal with it, talk about it or anything. I was simply drained and didn't have anything left. Looking back, I'm very proud of what I accomplished, but at the time, you might have never known it. Maybe that's what is going on here--maybe not.

The end result may be genius. It may be a flop. It could be both. That happens also. It will be interesting to hear the final product.

EXCELLENT POST!

[slucero]

Shirley refuses to talk about the J-boys at all, yet gushes about Mr. Big... even though they are MORE difficult to work with???


That says enough right there...

here's the way I see this...

In the old days, you had 3 very strong personalities...
Perry, who left to his own, would make a Motown-influenced pop rock album. See Raised on Radio.
Schon would make the pure hard rock album.
Cain would do the ballad and love songs album.
Reign the three of them in, and you get "Journey". Schon's rock tendencies, mixed with Cain's lyrics and melodies.....and Perry's soulful approach to rearranging vocal melodies on top of it. Combine the three successfully, and you could get magic. Having successful albums helps because you don't want to rock the boat too far and potentially lose fans--and everybody knows it.

These days, Perry's out of the equation. So, you have Schon and Cain fighting it out as to who wins. You also have a natural re-establishment of the pecking order. Do you get the soft ballad album or the hard rock album? Put the whole thing closer to the end of the band's career than the beginning, with recent material failing to get a tremendous amount of radio airplay, and people are willing to push harder than usual, because who knows if they will get another chance, and they want the chance to make their perfect idea of a "Journey album". It's a pretty tension-filled environment. It can be good tension sometimes. Other times, it can be pretty unbearable for everyone involved.

Now, put yourself in the middle trying to find "Journey" between the two extremes, and people unwilling to budge on either side. It's not an easy job. That's Kevin Shirley's job. Sounds like he's burned out from dealing with it. I was extremely burned out after making one video production. Got in well over my head, and it was just a continuous fight after fight from start to finish. When it was done, I didn't want to deal with it, talk about it or anything. I was simply drained and didn't have anything left. Looking back, I'm very proud of what I accomplished, but at the time, you might have never known it. Maybe that's what is going on here--maybe not.

The end result may be genius. It may be a flop. It could be both. That happens also. It will be interesting to hear the final product.

Except if it was GOOD... meaning Shirley liked the results... he'd be hyping it like he did Revelation...

Its one thing to not talk about the band... I get that... But he's not saying jack about the recording at all... nada... and he's the producer, so he's getting POINTS for this~!

[Rockindeano]

Part of me agrees with those thoughts, part of me doesn't. As for the raw live feel of it, I love it. It DOES sound like EM and the guys live. Except for a couple songs that are a bit too heavy for my liking and IMO are just a bunch of showboating. But then Hey Man is my favorite album for pretty much a vocal reason, Eric's voice is out front and GREAT on that album, of course I like the songs too, but I think it's some of his best MB studio vocals. I think they had LOTS of songs, but it sounds like Kevin had a lot to do with what songs (i.e., this one sounds too much like this one, this doesn't sound like MB, etc...) that made it. It was nice to hear the props for 2 (Stranger In My Live & Kill Me With a Kiss) of the 3 that EM wrote.

As for Actual Size, loved it too, but I just knew this one was going to be much heavier with Paul and Billy competing again. And from interviews and footage(dvd) etc I've heard/seen recently, I have a feeling Billy is still the underlying Alpha dog in MB. Loved watching Paul and Eric (dvd) trade ideas back and forth on the song Nobody Takes The Blame. Just my opinion, but I would like to have seen more of EM's and PG's songs make the album. But either way, I'm still happy to be hearing something new from them again.

By all accounts I've read and heard, the band did have a great time recording the album. (Here's another new interview with Paul.) And I am very much looking forward to checking out the Making of DVDs. I love that kind of footage and wish more of my favorite bands did it.

Make no mistake, I am glad the boys are back and hope this will be the start of a cycle of new albums and tours. And MB with Kotzen was surely a different sound. But these are my initial thoughts....like I said, I am hoping this album grows on me.

Most of all, I just don't understand why it was [b]absolutely necessary to cut the album in 10 days.[b/]

Money. Journey doesn't have alot of it. The overhead is astronomical, and these aren't the days of Escape and the 80's where Herbie had a money tree in the Nightmare back lot.

Cain is fine
Arnel is fine
Neal is probably living paycheck to paycheck
Ross is a line away from the soup kitchen (or a banana peel away from the grave)
Deen has Ferrari's he could sell.

No offense to anyone, but I love people commenting on things they just aren't applying common sense to in regards to Journey, especially the money situation.

While certainly NOT pulling the money in they did back in the heyday, I would wager they all make more money than anyone posting here, and are doing rather well.

Touring makes a LOT of money for bands...A LOT of money, MILLIONS...Journey has been succesfully touring for most the last 12 years or so, and I doubt they are hurting, even Neal will the alimony payments.

You and Steveo missed my point. The individual members don't buy the studio time. I KNOW they all do quite well, Stu and Steve. My point was the band(Azoff Mgt), does not have a ton of allocated funds for Journey studio time. They aren't Bon Jovi or Metallica. Journey is not a high earning band any more where they can afford 6-8 months in thre studio. You know that Stu.

[RossValoryRocks]

Part of me agrees with those thoughts, part of me doesn't. As for the raw live feel of it, I love it. It DOES sound like EM and the guys live. Except for a couple songs that are a bit too heavy for my liking and IMO are just a bunch of showboating. But then Hey Man is my favorite album for pretty much a vocal reason, Eric's voice is out front and GREAT on that album, of course I like the songs too, but I think it's some of his best MB studio vocals. I think they had LOTS of songs, but it sounds like Kevin had a lot to do with what songs (i.e., this one sounds too much like this one, this doesn't sound like MB, etc...) that made it. It was nice to hear the props for 2 (Stranger In My Live & Kill Me With a Kiss) of the 3 that EM wrote.

As for Actual Size, loved it too, but I just knew this one was going to be much heavier with Paul and Billy competing again. And from interviews and footage(dvd) etc I've heard/seen recently, I have a feeling Billy is still the underlying Alpha dog in MB. Loved watching Paul and Eric (dvd) trade ideas back and forth on the song Nobody Takes The Blame. Just my opinion, but I would like to have seen more of EM's and PG's songs make the album. But either way, I'm still happy to be hearing something new from them again.

By all accounts I've read and heard, the band did have a great time recording the album. (Here's another new interview with Paul.) And I am very much looking forward to checking out the Making of DVDs. I love that kind of footage and wish more of my favorite bands did it.

Make no mistake, I am glad the boys are back and hope this will be the start of a cycle of new albums and tours. And MB with Kotzen was surely a different sound. But these are my initial thoughts....like I said, I am hoping this album grows on me.

Most of all, I just don't understand why it was [b]absolutely necessary to cut the album in 10 days.[b/]

Money. Journey doesn't have alot of it. The overhead is astronomical, and these aren't the days of Escape and the 80's where Herbie had a money tree in the Nightmare back lot.

Cain is fine
Arnel is fine
Neal is probably living paycheck to paycheck
Ross is a line away from the soup kitchen (or a banana peel away from the grave)
Deen has Ferrari's he could sell.

No offense to anyone, but I love people commenting on things they just aren't applying common sense to in regards to Journey, especially the money situation.

While certainly NOT pulling the money in they did back in the heyday, I would wager they all make more money than anyone posting here, and are doing rather well.

Touring makes a LOT of money for bands...A LOT of money, MILLIONS...Journey has been succesfully touring for most the last 12 years or so, and I doubt they are hurting, even Neal will the alimony payments.

You and Steveo missed my point. The individual members don't buy the studio time. I KNOW they all do quite well, Stu and Steve. My point was the band(Azoff Mgt), does not have a ton of allocatred funds for Journey studio time. They aren't Bon Jovi or Metallica. Journey is not a high earning band any more where they can afford 6-8 months in thre studio. You know that Stu.

Your right I missed it your point, you are correct Azoff doesn't allocate a ton of money for Journey to record...then again after the success of Revelations (They made a ton on the album), perhaps that has changed? I don't know for sure but I suspect it might be so.

[Rockindeano]

Part of me agrees with those thoughts, part of me doesn't. As for the raw live feel of it, I love it. It DOES sound like EM and the guys live. Except for a couple songs that are a bit too heavy for my liking and IMO are just a bunch of showboating. But then Hey Man is my favorite album for pretty much a vocal reason, Eric's voice is out front and GREAT on that album, of course I like the songs too, but I think it's some of his best MB studio vocals. I think they had LOTS of songs, but it sounds like Kevin had a lot to do with what songs (i.e., this one sounds too much like this one, this doesn't sound like MB, etc...) that made it. It was nice to hear the props for 2 (Stranger In My Live & Kill Me With a Kiss) of the 3 that EM wrote.

As for Actual Size, loved it too, but I just knew this one was going to be much heavier with Paul and Billy competing again. And from interviews and footage(dvd) etc I've heard/seen recently, I have a feeling Billy is still the underlying Alpha dog in MB. Loved watching Paul and Eric (dvd) trade ideas back and forth on the song Nobody Takes The Blame. Just my opinion, but I would like to have seen more of EM's and PG's songs make the album. But either way, I'm still happy to be hearing something new from them again.

By all accounts I've read and heard, the band did have a great time recording the album. (Here's another new interview with Paul.) And I am very much looking forward to checking out the Making of DVDs. I love that kind of footage and wish more of my favorite bands did it.

Make no mistake, I am glad the boys are back and hope this will be the start of a cycle of new albums and tours. And MB with Kotzen was surely a different sound. But these are my initial thoughts....like I said, I am hoping this album grows on me.

Most of all, I just don't understand why it was [b]absolutely necessary to cut the album in 10 days.[b/]

Money. Journey doesn't have alot of it. The overhead is astronomical, and these aren't the days of Escape and the 80's where Herbie had a money tree in the Nightmare back lot.

Cain is fine
Arnel is fine
Neal is probably living paycheck to paycheck
Ross is a line away from the soup kitchen (or a banana peel away from the grave)
Deen has Ferrari's he could sell.

No offense to anyone, but I love people commenting on things they just aren't applying common sense to in regards to Journey, especially the money situation.

While certainly NOT pulling the money in they did back in the heyday, I would wager they all make more money than anyone posting here, and are doing rather well.

Touring makes a LOT of money for bands...A LOT of money, MILLIONS...Journey has been succesfully touring for most the last 12 years or so, and I doubt they are hurting, even Neal will the alimony payments.

You and Steveo missed my point. The individual members don't buy the studio time. I KNOW they all do quite well, Stu and Steve. My point was the band(Azoff Mgt), does not have a ton of allocatred funds for Journey studio time. They aren't Bon Jovi or Metallica. Journey is not a high earning band any more where they can afford 6-8 months in thre studio. You know that Stu.

Your right I missed it your point, you are correct Azoff doesn't allocate a ton of money for Journey to record...then again after the success of Revelations (They made a ton on the album), perhaps that has changed? I don't know for sure but I suspect it might be so.

I am not so sure they made a ton on Revelation. It was a solid figure by Walmart, yres? Meaning, it didn't matter if they sold 80 units or 800K, their money was up front. Now, the fact that they did sell an ok number of units probably bodes well for this upcoming release..meaning WM may do it again because Journey sold a fair amount of records.