A Conversation with Kevin Chalfant

[Gideon]

Oh there's our Giddy, absolutely seeing the world in black and white, no grey area whatsoever. Give him a hair he'll find a way to split it. You need to re-read my statement. Notice isn't the same thing as detect. I said I don't notice it with Perry but I notice it with Chalfant.

http://oald8.oxfordlearnersdictionaries ... ary/detect

You ever hear of a synonym, or should I define that one for you, too?

You don't like the word universally? Fine. Change that word to widely. Happy now? I'm pretty sure the majority of people reading my statement got the gist of where I was coming from. We're not writing contracts here kiddo. I'm certainly not going to spend hours arguing of a choice of word here or there. But you have at it. Enjoy.

Says the guy who spent half his post trying to argue semantics (and losing).

[kgdjpubs]

personally, I think Chalfant has lost a fair amount in the past 10 years---just like most tenors of that age. All I am saying is that judging Chalfant's ability on that Shooting Star record is listening to a much reduced Chalfant, and akin to Perry on FTLOSM. In other words, it's not a very good comparison.

The 2nd Storm album was about where he was at his peak, and at that time, I think he was about as good of a choice as anyone out there. These days, not so much.

[Rick]

Oh there's our Giddy, absolutely seeing the world in black and white, no grey area whatsoever. Give him a hair he'll find a way to split it. You need to re-read my statement. Notice isn't the same thing as detect. I said I don't notice it with Perry but I notice it with Chalfant.

http://oald8.oxfordlearnersdictionaries ... ary/detect

You ever hear of a synonym, or should I define that one for you, too?

You don't like the word universally? Fine. Change that word to widely. Happy now? I'm pretty sure the majority of people reading my statement got the gist of where I was coming from. We're not writing contracts here kiddo. I'm certainly not going to spend hours arguing of a choice of word here or there. But you have at it. Enjoy.

Says the guy who spent half his post trying to argue semantics (and losing).

Love these debates. But, just to add my thoughts... Kevin Chalfant is a great singer, but he couldn't hold Perry's jock strap in Perry's prime or at any other time. That's my looniness coming out in me, I know, but Chalfant could never sing a song like this, not with the range that Perry demonstrates. Especially the vocal acrobatics you hear just after the 2:40 mark.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zn0LZd7WJzw

[STORY_TELLER]

Oh there's our Giddy, absolutely seeing the world in black and white, no grey area whatsoever. Give him a hair he'll find a way to split it. You need to re-read my statement. Notice isn't the same thing as detect. I said I don't notice it with Perry but I notice it with Chalfant.

http://oald8.oxfordlearnersdictionaries ... ary/detect

You ever hear of a synonym, or should I define that one for you, too?

You don't like the word universally? Fine. Change that word to widely. Happy now? I'm pretty sure the majority of people reading my statement got the gist of where I was coming from. We're not writing contracts here kiddo. I'm certainly not going to spend hours arguing of a choice of word here or there. But you have at it. Enjoy.

Says the guy who spent half his post trying to argue semantics (and losing).

Love these debates. But, just to add my thoughts... Kevin Chalfant is a great singer, but he couldn't hold Perry's jock strap in Perry's prime or at any other time. That's my looniness coming out in me, I know, but Chalfant could never sing a song like this, not with the range that Perry demonstrates. Especially the vocal acrobatics you hear just after the 2:40 mark.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zn0LZd7WJzw

There's nothing loony about your assertion, dude. Perry made history with his voice and there's a reason for that. I could go OH so far with this, but ya know -- I mean really -- why bother?

[Rick]

Getting labeled "The Voice" doesn't come easily. As far as I know, it has been bestowed on two. Perry and Farnham. Both very well deserving.

[Gideon]

Oh there's our Giddy, absolutely seeing the world in black and white, no grey area whatsoever. Give him a hair he'll find a way to split it. You need to re-read my statement. Notice isn't the same thing as detect. I said I don't notice it with Perry but I notice it with Chalfant.

http://oald8.oxfordlearnersdictionaries ... ary/detect

You ever hear of a synonym, or should I define that one for you, too?

You don't like the word universally? Fine. Change that word to widely. Happy now? I'm pretty sure the majority of people reading my statement got the gist of where I was coming from. We're not writing contracts here kiddo. I'm certainly not going to spend hours arguing of a choice of word here or there. But you have at it. Enjoy.

Says the guy who spent half his post trying to argue semantics (and losing).

Love these debates. But, just to add my thoughts... Kevin Chalfant is a great singer, but he couldn't hold Perry's jock strap in Perry's prime or at any other time. That's my looniness coming out in me, I know, but Chalfant could never sing a song like this, not with the range that Perry demonstrates. Especially the vocal acrobatics you hear just after the 2:40 mark.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zn0LZd7WJzw

Fair enough, but I'm not buying it. Chalfant demonstrated comparable range to Perry in his heyday and I think he could tackle S&S. As far as not being able to hold Perry's jockstrap EVER? Chalfant would have slain TBF.

But to each his own.

[Gideon]

There's nothing loony about your assertion, dude. Perry made history with his voice and there's a reason for that. I could go OH so far with this, but ya know -- I mean really -- why bother?

You rehash the same old "lol I could take care of this but why bother lol?" every time we disagree. Whatever you have to tell yourself to nurse your wounded pride, be my guest.

[Pelata]

My comment to follow has nothing to do w/ Kevin Chalfant, but it needs to be said, IMO.

There are plenty of singers with the RANGE of Steve Perry in terms of range of octaves and what notes they can hit. Perry's real magic came in his delivery, his vibe, his personality coming THROUGH his range. That's really what made him unique...not simply the notes he could hit (which many singers can do) but the WAY he hit them.

So, in that sense, NOBODY can sing like Steve Perry...but many others can, and have been able to, sing Journey songs and still sound good...including Kevin.

[Gideon]

My comment to follow has nothing to do w/ Kevin Chalfant, but it needs to be said, IMO.

There are plenty of singers with the RANGE of Steve Perry in terms of range of octaves and what notes they can hit. Perry's real magic came in his delivery, his vibe, his personality coming THROUGH his range. That's really what made him unique...not simply the notes he could hit (which many singers can do) but the WAY he hit them.

So, in that sense, NOBODY can sing like Steve Perry...but many others can, and have been able to, sing Journey songs and still sound good...including Kevin.

I don't disagree with that. My point of contention is the enduring implication in these parts that Perry and Perry alone can "emote" the way you describe. There are plenty of singers who have graced the pop culture scene who are known for such delivery, Perry has hardly cornered the market on it

I personally think that Chalfant is/was more than capable of evincing sincerity while singing.

[Pelata]

My comment to follow has nothing to do w/ Kevin Chalfant, but it needs to be said, IMO.

There are plenty of singers with the RANGE of Steve Perry in terms of range of octaves and what notes they can hit. Perry's real magic came in his delivery, his vibe, his personality coming THROUGH his range. That's really what made him unique...not simply the notes he could hit (which many singers can do) but the WAY he hit them.

So, in that sense, NOBODY can sing like Steve Perry...but many others can, and have been able to, sing Journey songs and still sound good...including Kevin.

I don't disagree with that. My point of contention is the enduring implication in these parts that Perry and Perry alone can "emote" the way you describe. There are plenty of singers who have graced the pop culture scene who are known for such delivery, Perry has hardly cornered the market on it

I personally think that Chalfant is/was more than capable of evincing sincerity while singing.

In reality, Perry emotes like Sam Cooke singing Rock music. But yes...you're 100% correct, IMO. He certainly has not cornered the market in sincerity and conviction while singing and I think Kevin would indeed do a fine job. The problem is Perry left such a distinct mark that any other singers will have a hell of a time making their own.

[Gideon]

Agreed.

[STORY_TELLER]

There's nothing loony about your assertion, dude. Perry made history with his voice and there's a reason for that. I could go OH so far with this, but ya know -- I mean really -- why bother?

You rehash the same old "lol I could take care of this but why bother lol?" every time we disagree. Whatever you have to tell yourself to nurse your wounded pride, be my guest.

::: pats the kid on the head and says ::: Not gonna do it Master Baiter! But nice try though lol...

[Gideon]

Give me time.

[STORY_TELLER]

My comment to follow has nothing to do w/ Kevin Chalfant, but it needs to be said, IMO.

There are plenty of singers with the RANGE of Steve Perry in terms of range of octaves and what notes they can hit. Perry's real magic came in his delivery, his vibe, his personality coming THROUGH his range. That's really what made him unique...not simply the notes he could hit (which many singers can do) but the WAY he hit them.

So, in that sense, NOBODY can sing like Steve Perry...but many others can, and have been able to, sing Journey songs and still sound good...including Kevin.

I don't disagree with that. My point of contention is the enduring implication in these parts that Perry and Perry alone can "emote" the way you describe. There are plenty of singers who have graced the pop culture scene who are known for such delivery, Perry has hardly cornered the market on it

I personally think that Chalfant is/was more than capable of evincing sincerity while singing.

In reality, Perry emotes like Sam Cooke singing Rock music. But yes...you're 100% correct, IMO. He certainly has not cornered the market in sincerity and conviction while singing and I think Kevin would indeed do a fine job. The problem is Perry left such a distinct mark that any other singers will have a hell of a time making their own.

Uhhh wait a minute now. The fact that the average person confuses and/or compares other singers with Steve Perry is in fact Perry cornering a market of some kind! I mean how many times do you hear the average person saying, "hey that guy sounds like Sam Cooke"?

Both Rod Stewart and Steve Perry took heavy influence from Sam Cooke, but nobody has ever confused Perry for Stewart or either for Cooke. They both evolved Cooke's influence into something unique to themselves. That's the mark of artistry.

Additionally, both Perry and Stewart can take another vocalist's song and make it their own, and neither would sound like one another doing it. I can't make a better case for it than this -- Here is Perry singing a Sam Cooke song. He's not mimicking Cooke, he makes it his own, and he makes it his own by emoting in his own UNIQUE way:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onKprNfFUho

It takes more than great pipes to do that guys.

There's a reason scores of other singers have sought out Perry to sing backup on their albums over the years. It's admiration for HIS artistry. Perry has a unique vocal signature in both the way he technically and emotively delivers. Many, INCLUDING Chalfant, try to emulate HIS delivery, not Cooke's.

Chalfant sings fine, but Steve Perry he never was. Not in his prime and not since.

[Pelata]

Perry has a unique vocal signature in both the way he technically and emotively delivers.

Which is exactly what I said makes him unique a couple posts ago...not just his range (lots of people can hit the notes)...but the way he USES his range...his delivery and putting forth his personality THROUGH his range. The man was magic, no doubt about it. I'm only saying that one doesn't have necessarily BE Steve Perry in order to sound good singing a Journey song.

Your average person won't know who Sam Cooke is, doesn't make the comparison any less valid.

Nobody confuses Perry w/ Stewart because their tones are completely different.

[STORY_TELLER]

Perry has a unique vocal signature in both the way he technically and emotively delivers.

Which is exactly what I said makes him unique a couple posts ago...not just his range (lots of people can hit the notes)...but the way he USES his range...his delivery and putting forth his personality THROUGH his range. The man was magic, no doubt about it. I'm only saying that one doesn't have necessarily BE Steve Perry in order to sound good singing a Journey song.

Your average person won't know who Sam Cooke is, doesn't make the comparison any less valid.

Nobody confuses Perry w/ Stewart because their tones are completely different.

Oh absolutely. Of course anyone who can hit the right notes and sing on key can sound good singing a Journey song. Where they suffer is by comparison to Perry. Chalfant can hit the notes and do all the right technical things, but what he comes up with overall falls short by comparison. That's what guys like me and Rick were generally pointing out.

I will say that MANY people knew full well who Sam Cooke was back in the 60's and 70's. He was an influential hit maker. When Stewart hit the scene with the small faces, he was not confused with Cooke. Nor was Perry when he hit the scene in late 70's. I'm submitting that's because of both's unique evolution of Cooke's stylings. They took his influence and moved it far enough away to make it their own. People confuse the likes of Augeri, Chalfant, Hugo and Jeremy (among others) with Perry, even on non journey songs, because they identify the markers Perry originated in their approach. Not Cooke's, but Perry's.

Give two illustrators with similar artistic influences the exact same photo to use as reference for a portrait, they will come up with two very different illustrations every time. By comparison, I'd further submit that, even if Stewart and Perry had similar tone, they would still sound different because they use their voices in very different artistic ways.

This is where Perry has in fact cornered a market. Your average person holds him up as a standard. Guys like Chalfant never evolved their influences. They just sound like a guy with pipes. No *it* factor to be had. Arnel suffers from the same problem. Great pipes, sounds great singing other people's songs, but nothing original going on.

Something else to consider -- and it's a side note (not aimed at you, Pilata):
Post Journey bands like Bad English and The Storm had hits that, by the pure numbers, charted higher than say Wheel in the Sky, Lights, Living Touching Squeezing, Anyway you Want It, right? How often do you hear a Bad English tune played on the radio today? How often do you hear The Storm? Why are the Journey songs, which didn't chart terribly high, consistently played on radio to this day over songs that charted higher by the post Journey bands, or other heyday bands from the same time period? The answer is Steve fucking Perry. That's why.

[Gideon]

I hear more Bon Jovi and AC/DC on FM radio than Journey; by your logic, Jon and Brian must be better singers than Perry. You can dispense with the notion that Perry is a household name on par with Elvis or Freddie Mercury, he's not.

[kgdjpubs]

double post.

[kgdjpubs]

I will say that MANY people knew full well who Sam Cooke was back in the 60's and 70's. He was an influential hit maker. When Stewart hit the scene with the small faces, he was not confused with Cooke. Nor was Perry when he hit the scene in late 70's. I'm submitting that's because of both's unique evolution of Cooke's stylings. They took his influence and moved it far enough away to make it their own. People confuse the likes of Augeri, Chalfant, Hugo and Jeremy (among others) with Perry, even on non journey songs, because they identify the markers Perry originated in their approach. Not Cooke's, but Perry's.

To be totally honest, I don't hear much of Perry's vocal style in Augeri, Chaflant or Jeremey. Maybe Hugo at times. Similar range? Yes. Similar vocal tone? Yes. Similar material? yes. Totally different vocal style.

Give two illustrators with similar artistic influences the exact same photo to use as reference for a portrait, they will come up with two very different illustrations every time. By comparison, I'd further submit that, even if Stewart and Perry had similar tone, they would still sound different because they use their voices in very different artistic ways.

true---IF you can differentiate vocal tone. That's what I've always used, and it's the one thing you cannot copy. For all the people that can't tell the difference between Perry and all the others, if you made Perry and Rod Stewart fairly close in vocal tone, they would be tone deaf to that also.

This is where Perry has in fact cornered a market. Your average person holds him up as a standard. Guys like Chalfant never evolved their influences. They just sound like a guy with pipes. No *it* factor to be had. Arnel suffers from the same problem. Great pipes, sounds great singing other people's songs, but nothing original going on.

Actually, I'd give Chalfant an edge over Arnel. Kevin Chalfant has a fairly definable vocal style. Honestly, I don't think Arnel does. If you compare Chalfant's voice on The Storm's Eye of the Storm and his solo Running With the Wind cd (both recorded within a few years of each other--1994 vs 1997), the material is totally different. The vocal style is pretty similar on both---and fairly consistent throughout the album.

Arnel, on the other hand, changes his vocal style wildly throughout a single cd. What I hear on Revelation and Eclipse is Arnel either singing (or being told to sing) the melodies as written. To put it mildly, neither Cain nor Schon are singers. Can they sing? Yes, but they aren't singers. Put Perry (or any good singer) on any song, and he will add his own style over top, and that's what makes him one of the best. I just don't get that from Arnel. He's singing the wrote melodies, and it comes off cold and clinical. He's got the raw talent, but he's missing the key ingredient.

Something else to consider -- and it's a side note (not aimed at you, Pilata):
Post Journey bands like Bad English and The Storm had hits that, by the pure numbers, charted higher than say Wheel in the Sky, Lights, Living Touching Squeezing, Anyway you Want It, right? How often do you hear a Bad English tune played on the radio today? How often do you hear The Storm? Why are the Journey songs, which didn't chart terribly high, consistently played on radio to this day over songs that charted higher by the post Journey bands, or other heyday bands from the same time period? The answer is Steve fucking Perry. That's why.

You're comparing apples to oranges. Just because they were radio hits doesn't mean they didn't get exposure, and the musical climate of the late 70s is worlds apart from the early 90s. You're also comparing one hit wonders to a band that had many hits and got those "non-charting songs" on a greatest hits cd that has sold a LOT of copies.

Was Perry a big reason for Journey's success? Yes, you'd be a fool to deny it. That said, if Perry were the end-all-be-all, FTLOSM would have sold a heck of a lot more and you'd still hear some of those songs on the radio today. It's the Journey-Perry combination that worked--and was willing to get pushed by the record companies.

[Don]

Nevermind.

[Pelata]

I don't hear much of Perry's vocal style in Augeri, Chaflant or Jeremey. Maybe Hugo at times. Similar range? Yes. Similar vocal tone? Yes. Similar material? yes. Totally different vocal style.

This. Anyone with a smooth, higher-range voice singing melodic rock automatically gets the "Steve Perry" comparison.

Hugo, I have to say IMO, is like on a Vegas impersonator level in his Perry-isms.

I know good and damn well I don't sound like Steve Perry...but I still get the comparison from people...most recently a couple days ago. I think it's just a frame of reference thing for some...high+vibrato=Steve Perry.

[Yoda]

My comment to follow has nothing to do w/ Kevin Chalfant, but it needs to be said, IMO.

There are plenty of singers with the RANGE of Steve Perry in terms of range of octaves and what notes they can hit. Perry's real magic came in his delivery, his vibe, his personality coming THROUGH his range. That's really what made him unique...not simply the notes he could hit (which many singers can do) but the WAY he hit them.

So, in that sense, NOBODY can sing like Steve Perry...but many others can, and have been able to, sing Journey songs and still sound good...including Kevin.

I don't disagree with that. My point of contention is the enduring implication in these parts that Perry and Perry alone can "emote" the way you describe. There are plenty of singers who have graced the pop culture scene who are known for such delivery, Perry has hardly cornered the market on it

I personally think that Chalfant is/was more than capable of evincing sincerity while singing.

I don't believe anyone thinks that Steve Perry is the only singer who can sing with such a magical delivery of emotion and style. I think Adele has such a talent, as well as Celine Dion. But, Steve Perry DOES/DID have that magical it factor that many felt helped him to stand out among the other singers of the 1980's. That is not to say no other singer could have sang those songs with their own special, magical, delivery and made those songs hits. But, there is just something about Steve Perry's voice that seemed to intertwine and work beautifully with Jon's song writing and Neal's guitar playing. We could argue all day (and I know you would) that some other singer could have done as good of a job, but the fact is, no other singer did. Steve Perry sang those vocal melodies and it worked for the band. So much so that they base their "legacy" sound on his voice.

[Gideon]

Was your post meant to convey something other than an affirmation of Perry's "magic"? No one here has claimed or suggested that Perry wasn't a remarkable singer. That some of us ascribe similar praise for Chalfant takes nothing away from Perry unless you're a Loon.

[The_Noble_Cause]

personally, I think Chalfant has lost a fair amount in the past 10 years---just like most tenors of that age. All I am saying is that judging Chalfant's ability on that Shooting Star record is listening to a much reduced Chalfant, and akin to Perry on FTLOSM. In other words, it's not a very good comparison.

The 2nd Storm album was about where he was at his peak, and at that time, I think he was about as good of a choice as anyone out there. These days, not so much.

Wow, a poster who lives in reality. How very refreshing.

[tater1977]

They are all pretty good singers in their own right..
Just never heard the " SP sounds just like KC"..thing....
Guess thats why SP's at the top of the totem pole

Sorry been at a family funeral all day...& thanks Rick for the S&S link..
what I needed tonite..lol bedtime...

[The_Noble_Cause]

Perry has a unique vocal signature in both the way he technically and emotively delivers.

Which is exactly what I said makes him unique a couple posts ago...not just his range (lots of people can hit the notes)...but the way he USES his range...his delivery and putting forth his personality THROUGH his range. The man was magic, no doubt about it. I'm only saying that one doesn't have necessarily BE Steve Perry in order to sound good singing a Journey song.

Your average person won't know who Sam Cooke is, doesn't make the comparison any less valid.

Nobody confuses Perry w/ Stewart because their tones are completely different.

Oh absolutely. Of course anyone who can hit the right notes and sing on key can sound good singing a Journey song. Where they suffer is by comparison to Perry. Chalfant can hit the notes and do all the right technical things, but what he comes up with overall falls short by comparison. That's what guys like me and Rick were generally pointing out.

I will say that MANY people knew full well who Sam Cooke was back in the 60's and 70's. He was an influential hit maker. When Stewart hit the scene with the small faces, he was not confused with Cooke. Nor was Perry when he hit the scene in late 70's. I'm submitting that's because of both's unique evolution of Cooke's stylings. They took his influence and moved it far enough away to make it their own. People confuse the likes of Augeri, Chalfant, Hugo and Jeremy (among others) with Perry, even on non journey songs, because they identify the markers Perry originated in their approach. Not Cooke's, but Perry's.

Give two illustrators with similar artistic influences the exact same photo to use as reference for a portrait, they will come up with two very different illustrations every time. By comparison, I'd further submit that, even if Stewart and Perry had similar tone, they would still sound different because they use their voices in very different artistic ways.

This is where Perry has in fact cornered a market. Your average person holds him up as a standard. Guys like Chalfant never evolved their influences. They just sound like a guy with pipes. No *it* factor to be had. Arnel suffers from the same problem. Great pipes, sounds great singing other people's songs, but nothing original going on.

Something else to consider -- and it's a side note (not aimed at you, Pilata):
Post Journey bands like Bad English and The Storm had hits that, by the pure numbers, charted higher than say Wheel in the Sky, Lights, Living Touching Squeezing, Anyway you Want It, right? How often do you hear a Bad English tune played on the radio today? How often do you hear The Storm? Why are the Journey songs, which didn't chart terribly high, consistently played on radio to this day over songs that charted higher by the post Journey bands, or other heyday bands from the same time period? The answer is Steve fucking Perry. That's why.

You need to take off the rose colored bifocals.

On some live recordings, Perry is downright ripping off Sam Cooke. Not emulating, not paying tribute, not doing an homage - just doing his best to sound EXACTLY like him. Like any good singer, over time, he managed to tone it down, pull from a variety of sources, and create his own unique sound.

As for why Bad English is never played despite their string of hits.....you could ask the same question of Perry's FTLOSM. Totally changing music scene at the time. At least "When I see You Smile" still gets played. I've never heard "You Better Wait." Ever.

Herbie Herbert and his care of the catalog is the reason why songs like "Wheel in the Sky" and "Loving Touching Squeezing" endure. If it weren't for his business savvy, Perry would still be laundering the chicken shit out of his bell bottoms. Give me a break.

Chalfant is a first rate singer who draws from a number of blues, gospel, and motown influences. Augeri too, has his own Robert Plant British rock inflections. Nobody fawns and over-analyzes them like Perry, because they're not famous. End of story.

[STORY_TELLER]

You need to take off the rose colored bifocals.

On some live recordings, Perry is downright ripping off Sam Cooke. Not emulating, not paying tribute, not doing an homage - just doing his best to sound EXACTLY like him. Like any good singer, over time, he managed to tone it down, pull from a variety of sources, and create his own unique sound.

As for why Bad English is never played despite their string of hits.....you could ask the same question of Perry's FTLOSM. Totally changing music scene at the time. At least "When I see You Smile" still gets played. I've never heard "You Better Wait." Ever.

Herbie Herbert and his care of the catalog is the reason why songs like "Wheel in the Sky" and "Loving Touching Squeezing" endure. If it weren't for his business savvy, Perry would still be laundering the chicken shit out of his bell bottoms. Give me a break.

Chalfant is a first rate singer who draws from a number of blues, gospel, and motown influences. Augeri too, has his own Robert Plant British rock inflections. Nobody fawns and over-analyzes them like Perry, because they're not famous. End of story.

Yeah, I don't think that's the end of the story pal. but thanks so much for the mean spirit! Wow! Those panties must really hurt all bunched up like that, huh? Well, here's my retort. I couldn't cover everyone's points, because I just don't have that much free time on my hands, but I think I covered most below. If anyone has something specific they really want me to respond to, copy and paste it to an IM and I'll post my response in the thread:

As for how household a name Perry is compared to Elvis or Freddy Mercury, I will say that, I believe Perry is as well known as Journey, and Journey is a household name in America. Case in point (from 2010) - watch the reaction from a STADIUM full of average folk singing a pre-cain hit when they realize Perry is in the audience - Note how the jumbo tron doesn't state "Steve Perry, former singer of Journey". it simply says "the giants welcome Steve Perry" -- and the whole stadium goes fucking nuts. Is that not name recognition?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipOY1LILlVM

Noble, we're gonna agree to disagree about Perry/Cooke. Sure he was chock full of things he heard Sam do, very early on, but as you said yourself, he grew away from it, and I would add, pretty damn fast, nor was it there in every song he created/sang. I would go further and say, even when he did use Cooke-isms, he still made them his own just as Stewart did. That link I posted of him singing Cupid is a perfect example. He used cooke-isms but still made that song his own. In that same concert, he blended lyrics from two entirely different songs originated by other singers and made it his own as well (Seal's "Don't Cry" & Everly Brothers' "Let It Be Me"). Mark of an artist -- worlds apart from all the other good singers debated here for comparison. I think someone said something about the good singers not capable of holding Perry's jockstrap? This illustrates why.

Now then, When I see you Smile was a number ONE hit dude! FTLOSM had a downright depressing energy, and that's what sunk that album. If Perry opted to make another Oh Sherrie, we might be having a different conversation. Speaking of Oh Sherrie, it gets played pretty often too, and it wasn't a number one hit. I don't know where you live and I can't speak for your radio stations, but here in SoCal, When I see you Smile is maybe played once in a VERY blue moon. I think I heard it once last year. I hear old Journey several times a week out here across multiple radio stations. I've heard those same pre-cain era songs back in New York in constant rotation since they came out, LONG before the greatest hits album was compiled I might add (someone else mentioned the reason for the longevity was because of the GH's compilation -- that makes sense, but respectfully, it can't be the only reason if they've been played consistently for years before that album came out dude.) Don might be able to shed some light here.

About Herbie: He was a great businessman who absolutely had a big hand in getting the band maximum exposure, but at the end of the day, if the masses don't dig the songs, he can't do dick with them. He even eluded to this himself when talking about Eric Martin's first band (I think it's on youtube). Radio plays the Journey songs because they continue to be crowd pleasers. By the management logic, the only reason Led Zeppelin songs still get played is because of the management too? Riiiight. And if Herbie is the reason for the success, the reason herbie couldn't do that with EVERY song in Journey's catalogue, including the pre-perry stuff, or even more than say two songs from Mr. Big's catalogue would be, what exactly? If the masses don't dig the songs, no measure of behind the scenes handshaking will create an evergreen catalogue dude. So give ME a break, okay?

Now then, about Chalfant having the influences Noble mentioned. I don't know enough about his influences to comment, however, what you stated does not come through in his voice to me on any level. Try as I might, I don't DETECT any soul from Chalfant. Perry's voice, on the other hand, drips with soul. So much so that I, and many, many others, can't help but NOTICE it, and that's because it stands out so much, a deaf person would take NOTICE. (gosh, those synonyms certainly mean different things when viewed in the context of their intended use, don't they?)

Furthermore, if what someone else here said about the reason Journey didn't hire Chalfant is accurate, they (the band) seem to think the same thing about his lack of soul (i.e. "sounds like Bon Jovi"). I certainly don't hear Chalfant emoting any better than Augeri, and I don't think Augeri has the ability to emote at all. Both are soulless rock singers to my ear. Good pipes, but very average in the end. The thing that made Perry standout has always been the physical talent from his vocal chords coupled with his R&B base and emotive abilities, but let me explain something here: It takes more than influence to be able to emote through your voice. It's not like learning math. You either got it or you don't. Perry has it because he's innately talented in that area. Just listen to his interviews. The guy feels deeply about the smallest of things and he uses that part of him to channel it into his singing. That emotive quality is sourced from him, not from what he heard someone else do. He's an artist who is capable of being spontaneously creative with his instrument in a very engaging and compelling manner. Listen to the opening of LTS for an example of it here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AqNG8DW-Ohg

Can someone say try to hold the Jock strap?

Look y'all: The songs we are all still talking about today, the ones we're debating about who covers them as good as Perry, the ones the band continues to base their tours on, would not be the same songs without Perry's melodic input into their creation. It was his voice, but it was SO much more. it was his melody choices, his delivery, his artistic choices WITH his instrument -- all the things that make Perry unique unto Perry went into their creation. Just as you can give two artists the same photo from which to draw a portrait and get two very different illustrations, you can give two singers the same lyrics and instrumentals from which to create a melody, and they will craft two very different final versions of the song. If the likes of Chalfant or Augeri or a Mickey Thomas, was the guy in the mix originating any of the songs from Journey's Perry era, they would not be the same songs we know, and I would even say, if it weren't for Perry's specific input and his unique singing choices with his SPECTACULAR FUCKING VOICE, it's highly doubtful any of us would be here talking about a band called Journey today. So to say, Chalfant is as good or better. or Arnel is as good or better, or Augeri is as good or better -- because they can hit a note Perry hit on a song Perry originated? Because they have as much vocal power as Perry had on a song Perry originated? Bullshit. Bullshit. Bullshit. Originate something that compares with the very band members he worked with, then talk. None of them have done that yet. Not Chalfant with Rollie. Not Augeri with Cain and Schon. Not Arnel with Cain and Schon. Do you get my point here? Or do we need to keep splitting hairs until the molecules of the follicles feel naked?

Sheesh, that took a lot of time to write. How do you all have so much freedom to sit here and post so often?

[slucero]

[Gideon]

Now then, When I see you Smile was a number ONE hit dude! FTLOSM had a downright depressing energy, and that's what sunk that album.

Nice try at moving the goalpost. Wanna bet that I can find enduring songs/albums with a depressing energy?

And if Herbie is the reason for the success, the reason herbie couldn't do that with EVERY song in Journey's catalogue, including the pre-perry stuff, or even more than say two songs from Mr. Big's catalogue would be, what exactly?

And if PERRY is the reason for the success, the reason that EVERY song in Journey's catalog with PERRY's voice on it wasn't a chart-topping success would be what exactly?

Now then, about Chalfant having the influences Noble mentioned. I don't know enough about his influences to comment, however, what you stated does not come through in his voice to me on any level. Try as I might, I don't DETECT any soul from Chalfant. Perry's voice, on the other hand, drips with soul. So much so that I, and many, many others, can't help but NOTICE it, and that's because it stands out so much, a deaf person would take NOTICE. (gosh, those synonyms certainly mean different things when viewed in the context of their intended use, don't they?)

Not really, no. And YOU wanna talk about splitting hairs?

[Don]

Did Chalfant get any kind of mention in the BTM show? For a guy who has been recording for 30 years, he never did make much of a musical imprint. I never heard of him until I started reading here at MR.