Eclipse - 5 years

[The_Noble_Cause]

I posted the article in this thread because it sheds great light on why the albums (that would be plural, because more than just Eclipse is mentioned in this thread) may not have met their sales expectations. It also sheds light on why some members of the band may have washed their hands on recording new music (also discussed in this thread). It's quoted from someone 'in the business', so it was worth sharing.

Have a good day, sir.

What you pejoratively call "bickering" I call a lively debate. This thread is actually getting posters to intelligently weigh in, and usually this forum is dead and here you come along disparaging the discussion.

As for some "members" of the band, there is only one member who does not want the record. His name is Jonathan Cain. And he also swore off new Journey records after Arrival tanked.

[Archetype]

I listened to Eclipse a lot in the summer of 2011 right after it came out, but I have to admit that Revelation and Arrival have both had substantially more longevity with me. I was just playing some Arrival tracks in the car the other day. I also love metal (to suppress the arguments that maybe I don't like Eclipse because it's too "heavy"), but to me, Eclipse just isn't really a classic that you can listen to over and over again throughout the years. By the way, Eclipse is not metal at all, contrary to what many here say.

[FamilyMan]

Wrong thread for this, perhaps. But I don't get the 'Arrival was supposed to be Trial By Fire 2' comment. Those two records sound like they're from different planets. One is a Perry solo record; the other more like Escape.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Wrong thread for this, perhaps. But I don't get the 'Arrival was supposed to be Trial By Fire 2' comment. Those two records sound like they're from different planets. One is a Perry solo record; the other more like Escape.

Neither of your descriptions are even close to accurate. Arrival is jam-packed with love songs and bears very little resemblance to Escape. Escape had what? Open Arms and maybe Who's Crying Now. Neal said he set out to do an album like Escape. Instead, he had to deal with boy band crap like All the Way. Sony, for commercial reasons, wanted Arrival to be as close to TBF as possible. 2 of the rock tracks were added to the US release after it leaked. Without them being added, Arrival would be even more of a balladfest.

[Aaron]

My opinion is shite? Thanks for that bro. Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one. LOL So because of your brilliance and superior intellect your opinion carries more weight than mine? Naw, I'm not subscribing to opinion as being fact. Opinions are person preference and I respect yours sir.

I feel how I feel about that cd. And here's why, the detuning on City of Hope is total shite. The detuned guitar is Neal chasing the next shining star. FK that and Fk him. I used to think he had a soul and played what he did because of what he loved. This record proved he'll play anything he thinks will get him in the lime light again. Detuning sucks. He used to be my guitar hero.

I had some other points but there not worth mentioning. I listened to that gd song first out of the box after sneaking into Walmart to the buy the cd a day early. I listened to the first track and I was so mad I pulled it out of the deck and winged it. I bought it again later in the week to give it a fair shake. It sucked then and it sucks now. Journey hasn't done anything relevant since Arrival. Revelation had a couple of winners (thanks Jeremey) but other than that shite.

That's where I am and why. If they quit detuning I might see them live. If not I'll be at a tribute show for sure.

Do yourself favor and go see Night Ranger. Orginal singers, original tune, great show!

Let's all think about this a slightly different way:
If this album (Eclipse) is really the last that Journey ever releases, with all their success, would we all really be ok with it? That THIS is their last stand? The living testament to a band that spanned nearly four decades and whose hits became a soundtrack to our lives? Not sure about any of you, but "Tantra" is not the way I want to remember my favorite band.

[The_Noble_Cause]

My opinion is shite? Thanks for that bro. Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one. LOL So because of your brilliance and superior intellect your opinion carries more weight than mine? Naw, I'm not subscribing to opinion as being fact. Opinions are person preference and I respect yours sir.

That's fine. I don't respect yours at all. I don't even think you listened to the cd.

I feel how I feel about that cd. And here's why, the detuning on City of Hope is total shite. The detuned guitar is Neal chasing the next shining star. FK that and Fk him. I used to think he had a soul and played what he did because of what he loved. This record proved he'll play anything he thinks will get him in the lime light again. Detuning sucks. He used to be my guitar hero.

Yea, like I said, your opinion is total shit. Neal is "chasing the next shining star"? Nothing on Eclipse strikes me as selling out. It's a great guitar album. There's no celebrity cameos or duets. They didn't update their style to chase radio trends whatsoever. In fact, Neal took the tracks from Shirley because Shirley wanted to edit the songs.

Journey hasn't done anything relevant since Arrival. Revelation had a couple of winners (thanks Jeremey) but other than that shite.

Jeremey was involved with TWO tracks on Revelation and those songs already existed in some form prior to his involvement. But sure, make it sound like it was 100% him. Like I said, you're completely delusional.

[Monker]

I listened to Eclipse a lot in the summer of 2011 right after it came out, but I have to admit that Revelation and Arrival have both had substantially more longevity with me. I was just playing some Arrival tracks in the car the other day. I also love metal (to suppress the arguments that maybe I don't like Eclipse because it's too "heavy"), but to me, Eclipse just isn't really a classic that you can listen to over and over again throughout the years. By the way, Eclipse is not metal at all, contrary to what many here say.

I completely agree with you.

Eclipse is not "metal" or even "hard rock". It's Journey's attempt at being a guitar driven band, like Van Halan. That is something Neal had wanted to do since 1983.

[Monker]

Wrong thread for this, perhaps. But I don't get the 'Arrival was supposed to be Trial By Fire 2' comment. Those two records sound like they're from different planets. One is a Perry solo record; the other more like Escape.

Neither of your descriptions are even close to accurate. Arrival is jam-packed with love songs and bears very little resemblance to Escape. Escape had what? Open Arms and maybe Who's Crying Now. Neal said he set out to do an album like Escape. Instead, he had to deal with boy band crap like All the Way. Sony, for commercial reasons, wanted Arrival to be as close to TBF as possible. 2 of the rock tracks were added to the US release after it leaked. Without them being added, Arrival would be even more of a balladfest.

Escape had:

"Open Arms"
"Who's Cryin' Now"
"Still They Ride"

That is 3/8 songs.

Arrival had:
All the Way
Loved By You
With Your Love
Lifetime of Dreams

That is 5/15 songs. I'll even give you "Kiss Me Softly" (which, IMO, is a new take on a "Journey ballad" and shouldn't be counted) and "Signs of LIfe" (which, IMO, is more mid-tempo like DSB or "Anything is Possible).

So, Escape and Arrival have almost the EXACT same percent of "ballad love songs".

And, I prefer those songs above to anything Journey has recorded with Arnel. They are simply better written songs.

[Monker]

Neal is "chasing the next shining star"? Nothing on Eclipse strikes me as selling out. It's a great guitar album.

That depends on what type of guitar you like. I think it's average.

What Neal did was to make a guitar driven album. From that he tried to introduce goofy effects and multiple layered guitars to Journey. That is simply not Journey to me. IMO, Journey is clean guitar dancing with a clean high tenor voice, along with great song writing. Introducing alternative/grunge sounds to Journey was pretty lame...and it does point to going for a certain listener.

They didn't update their style to chase radio trends whatsoever. In fact, Neal took the tracks from Shirley because Shirley wanted to edit the songs.

So, on the one side Neal is saying this album was going to have legs. But, on the other he is not listening to his producer to get the songs on the radio. That makes perfect sense. Neal should stay out of that side of the business.

Journey hasn't done anything relevant since Arrival. Revelation had a couple of winners (thanks Jeremey) but other than that shite.

Jeremey was involved with TWO tracks on Revelation and those songs already existed in some form prior to his involvement. But sure, make it sound like it was 100% him. Like I said, you're completely delusional.

He's right. The fact is I was hearing "Higher Place" on the radio right up until JSS was in the band. I heard the entire Red 13 CD on the radio, too. I think I heard "City of Hope" on the radio once or twice, but hardly at all...and I heard NOTHING else from Arnel...and I haven't heard ANYTHING other than classic Steve Perry Journey for a couple years.

It doesn't matter if Jeremy's songs were good or not...they were still did not make Journey relevant.

[Monker]

BTW, Arrival sold three times what Eclipse did. If Arrival had packaged the Vegas DVD with it, it would have been a gold album.

Arrival did sell more than Eclipse. But back then, sales charts were alot more important and it did not even crack the Top 50. You needed a Jeweler's eyepiece to find it on Billboard. Eclipse cracked the top 20. Optics are everything, so Arrival appears to be a bigger loser. The band also had a lot more riding on Arrival. Some lineups call it quits after one poorly-received album. Just Ask Gary Cherone. Or the guy who replaced Phil in Genesis.

Arrival was selling around 50,000 copies out of the gate. In today's world, that's a top 10 album. Eclipse being #20 is NOT that impressive. I remember SJ posting the numbers and it was 20,000 out of the gate...that's what Arrival was selling weeks later. I told him that it wouldn't last but a few weeks and then fall off the chart...and it did.

Charts do not get the band royalty checks. Charts do not empty Wal-Mart's shelf space, or warehouse. Sales do that.

The fact is, Sony did not restock retail after they initially sold out. That is what Kevin Shirley was complaining about. The fact is that Eclipse was taking up far too much shelf space for far too long....and Wal-Mart lost money because of it.

[Monker]

BTW, Arrival sold three times what Eclipse did. If Arrival had packaged the Vegas DVD with it, it would have been a gold album.

Arrival did sell more than Eclipse. But back then, sales charts were alot more important and it did not even crack the Top 50. You needed a Jeweler's eyepiece to find it on Billboard. Eclipse cracked the top 20. Optics are everything, so Arrival appears to be a bigger loser. The band also had a lot more riding on Arrival. Some lineups call it quits after one poorly-received album. Just Ask Gary Cherone. Or the guy who replaced Phil in Genesis.

Good points. I don't remember, did either guy sound like the guy that they replaced? I know Hagar didn't sound like DLR, but were either of those bands trying to replace the legacy sound?

I don't remember what the story was for how Cherone got into VH. He was dating/married to somebody's sister who had something to do with the band, or something like that. Gary Cherone was/is the lead singer for Extreme (More Than Words, was their big acoustic ballad...which sounds nothing like their other songs.)

Cherone actually has a really good voice. When Extreme did "A Concert For Life" and sang the Queen songs, I thought they were the highlight of the show. Their version of "Love of My Life" was awesome, and so was their Queen medley. I thought he could have been a good replacement for Sammy.

But, "they" screwed it all up. First VH3 was too influenced by funk rock, which was what Extreme did. So, the album bombed. Then Cherone burned his voice out on the road. So, that was the end of that.

[Monker]

BTW, Arrival sold three times what Eclipse did. If Arrival had packaged the Vegas DVD with it, it would have been a gold album.

Can't compare different releases effectively to each other because the time between each and the circumstances and variables surrounding each are so different. I can say Eclipse debuted at #13 and Arrival was #56. I can also say what if Arrival had been shipped as aggressively as TBF was. And I can say what if they both had GH packages attached to them.

Was thinking the same thing as far as charting. It depends on the well an album is selling at the time compared to what else is out there at that time. I think a lot of great albums might have hit #1 if Thriller hadn't held the spot for 37 weeks. MC Hammer held the #1 spot for 21 weeks. I have to believe that there is a lot better music than that coming out during that time.

Well, my argument has nothing to do with charts...it has to do with sales. At the time you are talking about back in the 80's, an album would have to sell 100,000 or so just to get in the top 20. Nowadays, that's close to a #1 album.

As for how the album was shipped. That doesn't matter any longer, and I don't think it mattered for Arrival. Soundscan numbers taken actual sales are counted and certified. For TBF it was what was sent from the warehouse. So, since it shipped as a platinum album, they could certify it platinum very shortly after release....I'm sure that was one of Herbie's "smoke and mirrors" games he played back in the day.

The problem with Arrival, as Keven Shirley explained, is Sony had in mind how much it would sell and would not go beyond that number. So, they did not print more copies and keep it in stock at retail...so sales suffered after the initial shipments were sold out.

So, for Eclipse, they may have printed and shipped 500,000 copies. And, that's probably not a bad estimate since Revelation was platinum. But, those were not counted towards sales like TBF's were. Eclipse only counted REAL sales. So, it didn't do very well. The numbers show that. They didn't even sell out the initial shipment. So, they had 400,000 copies of the CD stuck in Wal-Mart's warehouse(s), and that is not good. It is not good because "space" in retail = money. They want to move things out of the warehouse so new product can use that space. Same with shelf space, stores want to move it off the shelf and make room for whatever the next product is that is 'hot'. Wal-Mart lost a lot of money on Eclipse...I guarantee it. They had to 'dump' a lot of Eclipse CD's...or bury them beside those "ET" Atari 2600 cartridges....since both products represent the exact same mistakes of over-estimating sales.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Arrival was selling around 50,000 copies out of the gate. In today's world, that's a top 10 album. Eclipse being #20 is NOT that impressive. I remember SJ posting the numbers and it was 20,000 out of the gate...that's what Arrival was selling weeks later. I told him that it wouldn't last but a few weeks and then fall off the chart...and it did.

Charts do not get the band royalty checks. Charts do not empty Wal-Mart's shelf space, or warehouse. Sales do that.

The fact is, Sony did not restock retail after they initially sold out. That is what Kevin Shirley was complaining about. The fact is that Eclipse was taking up far too much shelf space for far too long....and Wal-Mart lost money because of it.

You're saying a whole lotta nothing. Adjusted for inflation, I'm sure Thunderball and Gone with the Wind made more than something like Avengers. Bottom line, Avengers is viewed as the bigger movie. Same with Eclipse. It charted whereas Arrival was relegated to the bargain bin. Perception is everything and nobody perceived Arrival as a hit. Both Arnel albums charted. You cannot say the same for Arrival, Red 13, or Generations. You have to try very hard to make a top 20 debut seem like a bad thing for the band.

[Eric]

He's right. The fact is I was hearing "Higher Place" on the radio right up until JSS was in the band. I heard the entire Red 13 CD on the radio, too. I think I heard "City of Hope" on the radio once or twice, but hardly at all...and I heard NOTHING else from Arnel...and I haven't heard ANYTHING other than classic Steve Perry Journey for a couple years.

I know it's not the point of all of this, but where did you hear Red13 on the radio? It's an amazing song, but it would take big balls to play "The Time" on the radio in the 200o's. And where did you hear Higher Place on the radio up until 2006?

Off the top of my head, here are the only 5 songs I've heard on the radio for Journey songs created post ROR. I'm curious to hear about other's experiences...

- When You Love a Woman
- Can't Tame the Lion
- Higher Place
- After all these years
- Where did I lose your Love


Couple of other miscellaneous comments:

- Anything is Possible was being spun despite not being released. How someone didn't push that as a single is mind boggling.
- Journey should be playing Higher Place and/or Faith in the Heartland every show. Those should be big hits.

[Eric]

As for how the album was shipped. That doesn't matter any longer, and I don't think it mattered for Arrival. Soundscan numbers taken actual sales are counted and certified. For TBF it was what was sent from the warehouse. So, since it shipped as a platinum album, they could certify it platinum very shortly after release....I'm sure that was one of Herbie's "smoke and mirrors" games he played back in the day.

I think it would have been a big boost to Journey in 2001 to say they had a platinum album minus Steve Perry. And Arrival deserved to be platinum.

[Eric]

Journey hasn't done anything relevant since Arrival. Revelation had a couple of winners (thanks Jeremey) but other than that shite.

I respect all your opinions, but I cannot fathom how a Journey fan doesn't love "Faith in the Heartland".

[Eric]

That depends on what type of guitar you like. I think it's average.

What Neal did was to make a guitar driven album. From that he tried to introduce goofy effects and multiple layered guitars to Journey. That is simply not Journey to me. IMO, Journey is clean guitar dancing with a clean high tenor voice, along with great song writing. Introducing alternative/grunge sounds to Journey was pretty lame...and it does point to going for a certain listener.

You're entitled to your opinion of course of whether you liked the guitar or not on Eclipse - but comparisons to Grunge are ridiculous.

[Eric]

Neal turned his back on the audience that Revelation built. Journey spent a bunch of time rebuilding an audience for the "legacy" sound. They started kissing Perry's ass in public interviews and such and even Perry fans started buying into it. When Neal pushed Journey into being the Neal Schon solo band, he turned off a lot of people. It is obvious that is what happened and why Eclipse is where it is today.

I do think you have a point here, Monker. They definitely played up the "returning to their legacy sound" in 2008 and re-recording their hits and making a formulatic new album stuck to that. But by the next year they had amped up some of their hits (extended versions of SepWays, AWYWI, etc.) and even played that Download Fest...then wrote/made Eclipse in 2010-2011. I'm glad they did, but you could make a good argument that 2008 was a good time to release what they wanted to be. Then again...there are bills to be paid and most of their albums are different from each other.

[Art Vandelay]

He's right. The fact is I was hearing "Higher Place" on the radio right up until JSS was in the band. I heard the entire Red 13 CD on the radio, too. I think I heard "City of Hope" on the radio once or twice, but hardly at all...and I heard NOTHING else from Arnel...and I haven't heard ANYTHING other than classic Steve Perry Journey for a couple years.

I know it's not the point of all of this, but where did you hear Red13 on the radio? It's an amazing song, but it would take big balls to play "The Time" on the radio in the 200o's. And where did you hear Higher Place on the radio up until 2006?

Off the top of my head, here are the only 5 songs I've heard on the radio for Journey songs created post ROR. I'm curious to hear about other's experiences...

- When You Love a Woman
- Can't Tame the Lion
- Higher Place
- After all these years
- Where did I lose your Love


Couple of other miscellaneous comments:

- Anything is Possible was being spun despite not being released. How someone didn't push that as a single is mind boggling.
- Journey should be playing Higher Place and/or Faith in the Heartland every show. Those should be big hits.

Message of Love had decent airplay on the rock stations in Philly.

[SF-Dano]

He's right. The fact is I was hearing "Higher Place" on the radio right up until JSS was in the band. I heard the entire Red 13 CD on the radio, too. I think I heard "City of Hope" on the radio once or twice, but hardly at all...and I heard NOTHING else from Arnel...and I haven't heard ANYTHING other than classic Steve Perry Journey for a couple years.

I know it's not the point of all of this, but where did you hear Red13 on the radio? It's an amazing song, but it would take big balls to play "The Time" on the radio in the 200o's. And where did you hear Higher Place on the radio up until 2006?

Off the top of my head, here are the only 5 songs I've heard on the radio for Journey songs created post ROR. I'm curious to hear about other's experiences...

- When You Love a Woman
- Can't Tame the Lion
- Higher Place
- After all these years
- Where did I lose your Love


Couple of other miscellaneous comments:

- Anything is Possible was being spun despite not being released. How someone didn't push that as a single is mind boggling.
- Journey should be playing Higher Place and/or Faith in the Heartland every show. Those should be big hits.

They played all of Red 13 on bay area radio around the release date and continued playing songs (mostly SOG) for a while after the release. After that initial month or so, BA radio never played those tunes again.
Actually, as far as airplay goes for post Perry material, I think that short period after the release of Red 13 was when I heard the most post Perry material on the radio. They may have had a connection at 107.7 The Bone at the time of Red 13, because neither Arrival nor any release since (incl. Revelations), has received the radio play I recall hearing for SOG. As a big fan of Arrival, I recall being surprised at the time that SOG was getting much more airplay than I ever heard Higher Place get. Contributing to the airplay of Red 13 was that Journey was headlining the radio stations (107.7 The Bone) 1st ever "BoneBash" concert. Which I am sure the station was trying to promote by actually playing RED 13.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Escape had:

"Open Arms"
"Who's Cryin' Now"
"Still They Ride"

No, that's not accurate. Neither "Still They Ride" or "Mother Father" can be lumped together with the by-the-number romantic filler on Arrival. Those tunes are not cookie-cutter ballads at all.

Arrival had:
All the Way
Loved By You
With Your Love
Lifetime of Dreams

That is 5/15 songs.

You are implying by omission that every other track on Arrival is a rocker, and that's simply false.
Stuff like "Live and Breathe" and "We Will Meet Again" and "Live and Breathe" are not uptempo rock tracks. Escape is a ten track album with 5 of the tracks being Escape, Stone In Love, Keep on Running, Dead or Alive, and Lay It Down. Arrival is a 14 track album bogged down with ballads and mid-tempo slogs...much like Trial By Fire. In its original form, two of Arrival's rock tracks were not even on the disc and another, To Be Alive Again, was the bonus track.

And, I prefer those songs above to anything Journey has recorded with Arnel. They are simply better written songs.

Good for you. That's because they had a small army of outside writers helping them. Maybe you will get your wish and the band will re-record Arrival, as they have discussed.

[The_Noble_Cause]

They played all of Red 13 on bay area radio around the release date and continued playing songs (mostly SOG) for a while after the release. After that initial month or so, BA radio never played those tunes again.
Actually, as far as airplay goes for post Perry material, I think that short period after the release of Red 13 was when I heard the most post Perry material on the radio. They may have had a connection at 107.7 The Bone at the time of Red 13, because neither Arrival nor any release since (incl. Revelations), has received the radio play I recall hearing for SOG. As a big fan of Arrival, I recall being surprised at the time that SOG was getting much more airplay than I ever heard Higher Place get. Contributing to the airplay of Red 13 was that Journey was headlining the radio stations (107.7 The Bone) 1st ever "BoneBash" concert. Which I am sure the station was trying to promote by actually playing RED 13.

This is a topic worthy of its own thread. In the post-Perry years, I heard "After All These Years" played on Delilah or some similar syndicated radio show. That is the only non-SP tune I heard on the air.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Arrival was selling around 50,000 copies out of the gate. In today's world, that's a top 10 album. Eclipse being #20 is NOT that impressive.

Except that Arrival in it's day did not chart. And neither could Red 13 or Generations. So yeah, I would say it's pretty impressive.

Introducing alternative/grunge sounds to Journey was pretty lame...and it does point to going for a certain listener.

And just what song(s) on Eclipse sounds like grunge or alternative?

[Aaron]

Bro, I appreciate your view but wow. I think the fans that like "Faith in the Heartland" can't speak well with that big dick in their mouth.

I just never got into the song. It felt like a Cain contrived, suck your crotch song. I'm not feeling it but I'm glad you do!

Journey hasn't done anything relevant since Arrival. Revelation had a couple of winners (thanks Jeremey) but other than that shite.

I respect all your opinions, but I cannot fathom how a Journey fan doesn't love "Faith in the Heartland".

[Aaron]

I did listen to the cd several times. I was so offended by Schon's playing I discarded the cd quickly. Your opinion is genius and everyone else are delusional. Right on bro. I gave that cd a fair assessment and it failed in my opinion.

It did not meet my expectations on key to drive a positive vibe, lead guitar work that lacked soul and emotion (non wankfest playing) and vocal capability. There was zero soul in Neal's playing on this cd. It was a technical wankfest I would expect from Engve Malmsteen, not from Neal "The Melodic Man" Schon. The lower song keys kill the bright, happy, uplifting, positive vibe of Journey songs. The vocals were decent but too conservative with no risky maneuvers by Arnel. His vocals felt like he was protecting for live performances versus putting down his best in the studio regardless his live obligations.

The bottom line is we have different views of this work. I feel bad that your expectations are so low that you'll except mediocre work like this from "Journey". And the only track from Revelation worth it's salt is "Never Walk Away", thanks to Jeremey for that. And it's a good thing you have a keyboard because if we we're having a conversation we could not understand a word you're saying with Schon's Schlong in your mouth so much.

My opinion is shite? Thanks for that bro. Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one. LOL So because of your brilliance and superior intellect your opinion carries more weight than mine? Naw, I'm not subscribing to opinion as being fact. Opinions are person preference and I respect yours sir.

That's fine. I don't respect yours at all. I don't even think you listened to the cd.

I feel how I feel about that cd. And here's why, the detuning on City of Hope is total shite. The detuned guitar is Neal chasing the next shining star. FK that and Fk him. I used to think he had a soul and played what he did because of what he loved. This record proved he'll play anything he thinks will get him in the lime light again. Detuning sucks. He used to be my guitar hero.

Yea, like I said, your opinion is total shit. Neal is "chasing the next shining star"? Nothing on Eclipse strikes me as selling out. It's a great guitar album. There's no celebrity cameos or duets. They didn't update their style to chase radio trends whatsoever. In fact, Neal took the tracks from Shirley because Shirley wanted to edit the songs.

Journey hasn't done anything relevant since Arrival. Revelation had a couple of winners (thanks Jeremey) but other than that shite.

Jeremey was involved with TWO tracks on Revelation and those songs already existed in some form prior to his involvement. But sure, make it sound like it was 100% him. Like I said, you're completely delusional.

[The_Noble_Cause]

I did listen to the cd several times. I was so offended by Schon's playing I discarded the cd quickly.

Offended? By what? As if de-tuning is something new?

It did not meet my expectations on key to drive a positive vibe, lead guitar work that lacked soul and emotion (non wankfest playing) and vocal capability. There was zero soul in Neal's playing on this cd.

Sorry. Statements like this just have no credibility at all.
"On key to drive a positive vibe" - whatever the fuck that means. Are we discussing a rock band or the latest Tony Robbins motivational seminar?

The vocals were decent but too conservative with no risky maneuvers by Arnel. His vocals felt like he was protecting for live performances versus putting down his best in the studio regardless his live obligations.

Again, ridiculous. Arnel is pretty much shooting for the stratosphere on the cd. The vocals on this cd were recorded TWICE and the band spent more time on the vocals for Eclipse than Revelation.

And the only track from Revelation worth it's salt is "Never Walk Away",

NWA is one of the most derivative songs on the album, sounding like a straight rip-off of JSS/Schon's "Believe In Me" and "Never Too Late" from Generations. As Schon said, "I don't see the point of repeating the same song with different chords."

So in total, you like one song off of Revelation, hate Eclipse and also hate Faith in the Heartland. Why not gather your cd collection, go to Tiger stadium and torch that shit. The hate is strong with you dude.

...thanks to Jeremey for that.

Why? Jeremey said he changed NWA's lyrics mostly, not the melody. So again, you are just a crazed liar making OTT statements not backed-up by reality.

And it's a good thing you have a keyboard because if we we're having a conversation we could not understand a word you're saying with Schon's Schlong in your mouth so much.

Says the guy pouting like a little bitch whose Power Wheels Barbie roadster got a flat. I think you're just "offended" because Neal is giving the D to Michaele and sending your Aqua Velva-sprayed love letters back marked 'Return to Sender.' Fucking nutcase.

[The_Noble_Cause]

He's right. The fact is I was hearing "Higher Place" on the radio right up until JSS was in the band. I heard the entire Red 13 CD on the radio, too. I think I heard "City of Hope" on the radio once or twice, but hardly at all...and I heard NOTHING else from Arnel...and I haven't heard ANYTHING other than classic Steve Perry Journey for a couple years.

It doesn't matter if Jeremy's songs were good or not...they were still did not make Journey relevant.

Augeri himself would be the first to admit that Arnel boosted the band's profile and Q rating. DSB-mania (Sopranos, Glee etc.) and Arnel's rags-to-riches story coincided and created a perfect storm for the band. Even if that relevancy was fleeting, it happened. Which is more than can be said for the Augeri years which never really caught fire. The band even alluded to this with tour names like "Under the Radar." The fact that the Arnel-lineup appeared on Ellen recently demonstrates that they still have some form of relevancy. Towards the end of the SA years, the band could barely get arrested. It's total revisionist history to claim that Arrival was relevant. If it was, Schon/Cain wouldn't be talking about re-recording it.

[RedWingFan]

Anyone else astonished that from Infinity to Trial By Fire = 18 years. And Trial By Fire to today = 20 years????

[JourneyHard]

Radio stations always had play lists, but now they are even more restrictive. The classic rock stations don't play City of the Angels after Lovin, Touchin, Squeezin anymore for example. This hurts Journey because only their greatest hits get air play now, and so they are stuck playing those in concert.

[tj]

Radio stations always had play lists, but now they are even more restrictive. The classic rock stations don't play City of the Angels after Lovin, Touchin, Squeezin anymore for example. This hurts Journey because only their greatest hits get air play now, and so they are stuck playing those in concert.

I don't recall any of today's "Classic Rock" stations, as they describe themselves, in any of the areas I have lived or visited ever really playing City of the Angels after LTS. Usually, it is LTS and then on to something else - whether a different Journey dirty dozen tune or another band altogether.

I do recall FM Rock stations during the 70's, and 80's to a good extent, playing it after LTS as well as letting Feeling That Way roll on into Anytime. Now, since so many of the stations are corporate owned, their ability to play "classic rock" is pretty restricted to any band's hits. Occassionally, a deeper cut like City of the Angels will make it in, but rarely.

For people like us, we can just pull up the album or playlist and hear the deeper tunes. The loss is really on the average fan who doesn't own the album or want to dig any deeper. Journey has some real gems.