Journey album - new date

[The_Noble_Cause]

And, an opinion based on hero worship and conceived through rose colored glasses is no better.

When Neal fucks up (ex. embarrassing Resonate video featuring him and Michaele making out Here-to-Eternity style), I call it out. Things are pretty great right now. All of your doomsday predictions (Eclipse is the last album!) have been shot to shit. The Journey continues.....

[Monker]

And, an opinion based on hero worship and conceived through rose colored glasses is no better.

When Neal fucks up (ex. embarrassing Resonate video featuring him and Michaele making out Here-to-Eternity style), I call it out.

Ah, so when Neal fucked up and said there would be a single last July or August and you started a thread about it, you called him out.

So, when Neal fucked up and said there would be a single released every month this year until the album was released, you called him out.

When Neal fucked up and said that a single would be released in March, or whatever, you called him out.

When ANDREW posted that a single would be released soon and the delays were because they had to get all the legal stuff out of the way, you called out all of Neal's fuck ups over the past year.

Yeah, you call Neal out all the time.

[youkeepmewaiting]

Bloody hell, this is getting embarrassing mate. I assume you're a gorgeous man with children? Come on buddy

[The_Noble_Cause]

Ah, so when Neal fucked up and said there would be a single last July or August and you started a thread about it, you called him out.

So, when Neal fucked up and said there would be a single released every month this year until the album was released, you called him out.

When Neal fucked up and said that a single would be released in March, or whatever, you called him out.

When ANDREW posted that a single would be released soon and the delays were because they had to get all the legal stuff out of the way, you called out all of Neal's fuck ups over the past year.

Yeah, you call Neal out all the time.

Release dates change all the time. I'm glad Neal wanted the music out sooner. The most important thing is, new music WAS actually being made and IS actually being released. The optics of you going on the warpath against the band ever since they added two men of color is very very bad.

[youkeepmewaiting]

Ah, so when Neal fucked up and said there would be a single last July or August and you started a thread about it, you called him out.

So, when Neal fucked up and said there would be a single released every month this year until the album was released, you called him out.

When Neal fucked up and said that a single would be released in March, or whatever, you called him out.

When ANDREW posted that a single would be released soon and the delays were because they had to get all the legal stuff out of the way, you called out all of Neal's fuck ups over the past year.

Yeah, you call Neal out all the time.

Release dates change all the time. I'm glad Neal wanted the music out sooner. The most important thing is, new music WAS actually being made and IS actually being released. The optics of you going on the warpath against the band ever since they added two men of color is very very bad.

Exactly. Neal gets ahead of himself sometimes because he's so keen, not going to hold that against him

[jrnyman28]

And, an opinion based on hero worship and conceived through rose colored glasses is no better.

When Neal fucks up (ex. embarrassing Resonate video featuring him and Michaele making out Here-to-Eternity style), I call it out.

Ah, so when Neal fucked up and said there would be a single last July or August and you started a thread about it, you called him out.

So, when Neal fucked up and said there would be a single released every month this year until the album was released, you called him out.

When Neal fucked up and said that a single would be released in March, or whatever, you called him out.

When ANDREW posted that a single would be released soon and the delays were because they had to get all the legal stuff out of the way, you called out all of Neal's fuck ups over the past year.

Yeah, you call Neal out all the time.

Well, at least you now admit Neal fucked up, not lied.

[Monker]

Ah, so when Neal fucked up and said there would be a single last July or August and you started a thread about it, you called him out.

So, when Neal fucked up and said there would be a single released every month this year until the album was released, you called him out.

When Neal fucked up and said that a single would be released in March, or whatever, you called him out.

When ANDREW posted that a single would be released soon and the delays were because they had to get all the legal stuff out of the way, you called out all of Neal's fuck ups over the past year.

Yeah, you call Neal out all the time.

Release dates change all the time. I'm glad Neal wanted the music out sooner. The most important thing is, new music WAS actually being made and IS actually being released. The optics of you going on the warpath against the band ever since they added two men of color is very very bad.

Exactly. Neal gets ahead of himself sometimes because he's so keen, not going to hold that against him

Except there was no "release date" that changed. No release date was given until recently. As ANDREW said, the reason was because of the legal issues....You remember, the legal issues that NEAL SCHON started.

As I said, NOBODY here seems to hold Neal accountable. You all are making excuse after excuse.

I have been on Journey's case since before they even fired Augeri. This is nothing new for me. Everybody knows that.

[Monker]

Well, at least you now admit Neal fucked up, not lied.

He fucked up when he sued Nightmare/Valory/Smith and he fucked up multiple times by lying about release dates.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Both Cain and Schon were parties to the lawsuit. Do you think Cain liked being deposed from a place of leadership? Repeatedly, you have made the lawsuit seem like a unilateral move by Schon, which is just not factually accurate.


Your agenda is transparent and lame. Nobody gives a shit about release dates being moved around.

[Monker]

Gideon is right, Monker. You have some sort of weird grudge against Schon.

“He lied” sounds ridiculous. They had a couple songs last year and Schon is excitable and aggressive. The legal stuff, new management and perhaps even producing needs have not allowed anything to be released.

Yes, he lied. As ANDREW said, the legal stuff held stuff held up the release of a single. Don't try to convince me that he did not know that was happening. There was not going to be any new Journey while they were fighting in court. Neal lied about it. You are excusing that.

[Monker]

Both Cain and Schon were parties to the lawsuit. Do you think Cain liked being deposed from a place of leadership? Repeatedly, you have made the lawsuit seem like a unilateral move by Schon, which is just not factually accurate.


Your agenda is transparent and lame. Nobody gives a shit about release dates being moved around.

There was no release date. Neal lied and said stupid shit about a single being released and you all would wait for news of a release date that common sense showed was never going to happen.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Yes, he lied. As ANDREW said, the legal stuff held stuff held up the release of a single. Don't try to convince me that he did not know that was happening. There was not going to be any new Journey while they were fighting in court. Neal lied about it. You are excusing that.

1) Andrew was only trying to give fans an update. Drew never outright said Neal was lying.
2) As previously mentioned, bands/artists have released new music while litigation is going on. Geoff Tate's Queensryche release on Cleopatra Music is just one recent example.

So where's the lie?

Maybe you're just trying to distract posters' attention away from your own history of lies and failed predictions?

Yeah, right, a new Journey album. That will happen after Steve Perry tours for his solo release.

I said it way back when Eclipse came out, Andrew even said I was wrong, that Journey would keep recording. Well, I wasn't wrong.

Like I said back then, Eclipse will be Journey's final album.

[Monker]

Yes, he lied. As ANDREW said, the legal stuff held stuff held up the release of a single. Don't try to convince me that he did not know that was happening. There was not going to be any new Journey while they were fighting in court. Neal lied about it. You are excusing that.

1) Andrew was only trying to give fans an update. Drew never outright said Neal was lying.

Andrew said that the legal issues are what held up the release. Don't try to add bits.

You are not going to convince me that Neal did not KNOW that his lawsuit was holding up Journey releasing anything. He knew and lied about when Journey was going to release a single. Instead of admitting that Journey will release music after the legal garbage is out of the way, he lied and invented stuff like "next month".

Maybe you're just trying to distract posters' attention away from your own history of lies and failed predictions?

Seems to me that is exactly what you are doing. If what I am saying is so inaccurate and irresponsible, there would not be a need to defend Neal. He lied to fans and you did not call him out for it - and you know it.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Andrew said that the legal issues are what held up the release. Don't try to add bits.

Your claim that ongoing litigation somehow automatically prevents new music - and that Neal knew this - is totally speculative. Other bands have done it. Where's your proof?

You are not going to convince me that Neal did not KNOW that his lawsuit was holding up Journey releasing anything. He knew and lied about when Journey was going to release a single. Instead of admitting that Journey will release music after the legal garbage is out of the way, he lied and invented stuff like "next month".

You are the one claiming that Neal knowingly lied. The burden of proof is on you. So where's the proof?

It seemed apparent to me that JTT would run into some kind of legal trouble (and it eventually did). Neal went ahead with it anyway. Who's to say he didn't have the same devil-may-care mindset in regards to releasing new Journey music? You can't prove anything.

Seems to me that is exactly what you are doing. If what I am saying is so inaccurate and irresponsible, there would not be a need to defend Neal. He lied to fans and you did not call him out for it - and you know it.

How did he lie when he periodically updated fans on the changing release dates as well as the legal situation?

[Gideon]

Still perplexed why Monker is litigating his weird hatred of Jon and Neal especially about this shit. Starting to think he's quibbling to cover for his doomsday prophecies about how Eclipse was gonna be the last Journey album.

If so... bro, legitimately no one gives a fuck about that. People make wrong predictions all the time; you're neither the first nor last.

[Monker]

Andrew said that the legal issues are what held up the release. Don't try to add bits.

Your claim that ongoing litigation somehow automatically prevents new music - and that Neal knew this - is totally speculative. Other bands have done it. Where's your proof?

As you quoted, Andrew already said that the reason for the delay was the legal stuff. Unless you don't believe Andrew and what he was told - it is no longer speculative.

You are not going to convince me that Neal did not KNOW that his lawsuit was holding up Journey releasing anything. He knew and lied about when Journey was going to release a single. Instead of admitting that Journey will release music after the legal garbage is out of the way, he lied and invented stuff like "next month".

You are the one claiming that Neal knowingly lied. The burden of proof is on you. So where's the proof?

This is silly. You are basically saying that a single was not going to be released until the legal matters were over, ACCORDING TO ANDREW, and Neal did not know it, and he -NEAL- kept changing his story because he is clueless. You are making Neal look out of touch and stupid.

He knew and lied about it. Again, all he had to say is they were waiting for the legal stuff to end. Instead, all he could say is "next month".

It seemed apparent to me that JTT would run into some kind of legal trouble

When did you say that?

Neal went ahead with it anyway. Who's to say he didn't have the same devil-may-care mindset in regards to releasing new Journey music? You can't prove anything.

Neal doesn't release music - labels do. Unless Neal owns the label, which I doubt he does.
In addition, the entire JTT fiasco is tied to the Journey fiasco because Nightmare filed a complaint against Neal then instantly (the next day) Neal sued Nightmare, Valory, and Smith. It's all connected.

Seems to me that is exactly what you are doing. If what I am saying is so inaccurate and irresponsible, there would not be a need to defend Neal. He lied to fans and you did not call him out for it - and you know it.

How did he lie when he periodically updated fans on the changing release dates as well as the legal situation?[/quote]

First of all, YOU are lying because there was no "changing release date". It was just Neal spouting off random lies, there was no specific "release date" involved. He KNEW they were waiting for his lawsuits to end but he gave expectations anyway...he lied and you did NOT hold him accountable. You make excuses for him.

[The_Noble_Cause]

As you quoted, Andrew already said that the reason for the delay was the legal stuff. Unless you don't believe Andrew and what he was told - it is no longer speculative.

Andrew has also previously (and correctly) attributed the delay to other factors (like QPrime and Bob Clearmountain’s role). The quote that “legal shit held things up” does not imply that the ONLY issue ever at play was the lawsuit - nor does it imply that Neal knowingly lied to fans.

"Neal just confirmed for me that new mgmt QPrime (awesome company with 30 year track record) want to wait until new year for any new music to arrive."

"Single pushed back a few more weeks due to Bob Clearmountain's new role."

So aside from one cherry-picked Andrew quote, where is your proof?

This is silly. You are basically saying that a single was not going to be released until the legal matters were over, ACCORDING TO ANDREW, and Neal did not know it, and he -NEAL- kept changing his story because he is clueless. You are making Neal look out of touch and stupid.

Andrew never said that the delay was exclusively due to the lawsuit and he made no comment on what Neal knew and when did he know it.
The only one attributing dishonest motives to Neal is you.

As for stupidity, didn't Herbie famously say Neal "isn't the sharpest knife in the drawer"?

He knew and lied about it. Again, all he had to say is they were waiting for the legal stuff to end. Instead, all he could say is "next month".

So prove it.

It seemed apparent to me that JTT would run into some kind of legal trouble

When did you say that?

I said "it seemed apparent to me." Unsure whether I expressed that on here. Believe it or not, most people have thoughts/emotions/lives outside of MR.

Neal doesn't release music - labels do. Unless Neal owns the label, which I doubt he does.

The past two albums were independently released by NOMOTA. Walmart handled the distribution and in-store marketing. Who, exactly, do you think owns NOMOTA?
There's always a give-and-take between the band and management regarding when new music drops. Just because a date changes, doesn't make it a lie.

First of all, YOU are lying because there was no "changing release date". It was just Neal spouting off random lies, there was no specific "release date" involved. He KNEW they were waiting for his lawsuits to end but he gave expectations anyway...he lied and you did NOT hold him accountable. You make excuses for him.

Every time Neal gave us a new date (on Sirius/XM Eddie Trunk or on social media), I posted about it right here.

[JourneyHard]

All Neal wanted to do was have some fun and go out with Gregg and the others and play some deep cuts that the regular band didn't have time to play in their shared-headliner concerts. Ross and Smith saw this and said they better stop Neal from doing this or they won't see any money because the regular band might get put on the backburner. Neal and Jon countered by kicking Ross and Smith out of the band. Neal replaced them with two of the best musicians in the world.

The result of all of this is Neal is fired up about making new music, and Ross and Smith get paid for staying home. Everybody wins!

[Monker]

All Neal wanted to do was have some fun and go out with Gregg and the others and play some deep cuts that the regular band didn't have time to play in their shared-headliner concerts.

NOT TRUE. He also decided to record and release an album.

Ross and Smith saw this and said they better stop Neal from doing this or they won't see any money because the regular band might get put on the backburner.

Absolutely NOT TRUE. NIGHTMARE, not Smith/Valory, filed a trademark complaint. NIGHTMARE owns the trademark, not Smith/Valory and not Elmo Bros, NoMoTa, or whatever Schon/Cain call themselves.

Neal and Jon countered by kicking Ross and Smith out of the band.

Again, NOT TRUE. Neal sued Nightmare because Neal dreamt up some wild scheme that Smith/Valory wanted to take over Journey by taking over Nightmare, because they wanted some kind of retirement financed. THAT was Neal's excuse for firing Smith/Valory, not the trademark complaint filed by Nightmare.

Neal replaced them with two of the best musicians in the world.

LOL.

The result of all of this is Neal is fired up about making new music, and Ross and Smith get paid for staying home. Everybody wins!

The result is you have a single and album delayed for at least a year and a duo of a band that has very little connection to their heritage.

[Onestepper]

For someone accusing others of kissing band member’s asses, you sure do spend a lot of time learning every single detail about their business, lives, music and gossip. You’d think someone with that level of knowledge could come off even slightly less miserable, and just embrace being a fan.

Maybe it’s not everyone else that has the problem.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Absolutely NOT TRUE. NIGHTMARE, not Smith/Valory, filed a trademark complaint. NIGHTMARE owns the trademark, not Smith/Valory and not Elmo Bros, NoMoTa, or whatever Schon/Cain call themselves.

Totally omitting the fact that Smitty/Ross deposed, Cain and Schon, from leadership roles. According to Cain/Schon lawsuit, Cain's signature was forged on legal documents to hold the board meeting and the vote. Why do you omit that?

Again, NOT TRUE. Neal sued Nightmare because Neal dreamt up some wild scheme that Smith/Valory wanted to take over Journey by taking over Nightmare, because they wanted some kind of retirement financed. THAT was Neal's excuse for firing Smith/Valory, not the trademark complaint filed by Nightmare.

Cain/Schon's lawsuit referred to their knowledge of the retirement scheme as being "on information and belief." That's a legal term for second hand information. Neither Ross or Smith have disputed the claim. Smitty is back to jazz, but Ross def. appears retired for the time being. What proof do you have that Neal dreamt up a wild scheme?

LOL.

Not sure why this is funny (unless you're a racist pos). With Randy and Narada on-board, the band elevated to super group status. I hope they stay permanently. But who knows.

The result is you have a single and album delayed for at least a year and a duo of a band that has very little connection to their heritage.

1) The REAL result is new music. Without the lineup change, there would be no new music to delay.

2) Randy's connection dates back to Frontiers. In addition to Journey, he worked with Cain/Schon on projects like Bolton's The Hunger. Sounds pretty legit to me.

As for "connection to heritage"....who tf cares? This is a band - not the Disney robotic hall of presidents or Madame Tussauds. It's about embracing the past, but also moving forward.

[Monker]

[
Totally omitting the fact that Smitty/Ross deposed, Cain and Schon, from leadership roles.

Not true. Smith/Valory did not do this....NIGHTMRRE voted them in and Schon/Cain out.

According to Cain/Schon lawsuit, Cain's signature was forged on legal documents to hold the board meeting and the vote. Why do you omit that?

Because even adding that ACCUSATION it does not change the fact that this statement is simply NOT TRUE, "Ross and Smith saw this(JTT) and said they better stop Neal from doing this or they won't see any money because the regular band might get put on the backburner."

It was NIGHTMARE who issued the trademark dispute against JTT.

Cain/Schon's lawsuit referred to their knowledge of the retirement scheme as being "on information and belief." That's a legal term for second hand information. Neither Ross or Smith have disputed the claim. Smitty is back to jazz, but Ross def. appears retired for the time being. What proof do you have that Neal dreamt up a wild scheme?

You have no idea what Valory/Smith disputed in court. You are just making stuff up now. In fact, you will NEVER know to what extent ANYTHING was proven because part of the settlement was to have some sealed documents DESTROYED.

Not sure why this is funny (unless you're a racist pos). As I said upon their joining, Randy and Narada just elevated the band to super group status. I hope they stay permanently. But who knows.

It is funny to me because Steve Smith already is one of the best drummers in the world. And, Randy "American Idol" Jackson being one of the best bassists is funny in itself.

1) The REAL result is new music. Without the lineup change, there would be no new music to delay.

Nothing but speculation on your part based on statements from a damaged Neal Schon. It seems to me that all he would have had to do was go to the studio with a different drummer and toured with Steve Smith. Instead, he put his recording ambitions into JTT and did some revenge firing in Journey when JTT fell through. Like was said by the Ross camp, all Neal would have had to do was talk to them.

2) Randy's connection dates back to Frontiers. In addition to Journey, he worked with Cain/Schon on projects like Bolton's The Hunger. Sounds pretty legit to me.

And, Ross dates back to the before the band was even Named. Steve Smith dates back to the Infinity tour (with Montrose) and also worked on all sorts of outside projects by almost every member of Journey. And, both were part of the classic Escape lineup. Journey gave up that heritage when they were fired.

As for "connection to heritage"....who tf cares?

I think a lot more people care then you'll ever know. They blew their chance at capitalizing on it...with Neal being focused on JTT.

This is a band - not the Disney robotic hall of presidents or Madame Tussauds. It's about embracing the past, but also moving forward.

No, it's more like the "bands" who perform at Disney where only one or two members of the real band remain.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Not true. Smith/Valory did not do this....NIGHTMRRE voted them in and Schon/Cain out.

The Schon/Cain lawsuit alleges the special shareholder meeting, using Cain's forged signature, was done at the behest of Smith/Valory. Whether that's true or not, you simply don't know and never will.

You have no idea what Valory/Smith disputed in court.

Neither do you. The only difference is, I am not citing one lawsuit as indisputable factual history - while omitting other key allegations.

You are just making stuff up now. In fact, you will NEVER know to what extent ANYTHING was proven because part of the settlement was to have some sealed documents DESTROYED.

What did I make up? Be specific.

It is funny to me because Steve Smith already is one of the best drummers in the world.

He wasn't using those chops constructively in Journey (same setlist, no new music). So what good is it?

And, Randy "American Idol" Jackson being one of the best bassists is funny in itself.

Sorry. Still don't get this. Are you denying his session work and pedigree? Are you denying that Ross's most famous bassline (SIL) wasn't even written by Ross? Have you never listened to Randy's playing on After the Fall?

Nothing but speculation on your part based on statements from a damaged Neal Schon. It seems to me that all he would have had to do was go to the studio with a different drummer and toured with Steve Smith.

The scenario you mentioned (record with a different drummer) is not appealing at all. At that point, why bother?

Instead, he put his recording ambitions into JTT and did some revenge firing in Journey when JTT fell through. Like was said by the Ross camp, all Neal would have had to do was talk to them.

So what prevented Ross from talking to Schon/Cain before (allegedly) nominating himself to Nightmare leadership and convening an illegitimate meeting?

I think a lot more people care then you'll ever know. They blew their chance at capitalizing on it...with Neal being focused on JTT.

Smith has been back since 2015 and there has been no new music. JTT, which didn't even exist until 2018-2019, is somehow the issue? That makes no sense at all.

No, it's more like the "bands" who perform at Disney where only one or two members of the real band remain.

According to this, the band should've been playing at Disney during the Deen Castronovo years. Funny how you didn't complain back then. I wonder what changed....

[Monker]

The Schon/Cain lawsuit alleges the special shareholder meeting, using Cain's forged signature, was done at the behest of Smith/Valory. Whether that's true or not, you simply don't know and never will.

Irrelevent.

Nightmare voted for them. That is a simple FACT.

Neither do you. The only difference is, I am not citing one lawsuit as indisputable factual history - while omitting other key allegations.

I am just stating the FACT that NIGHTMARE filed the Trademark complaint, not Valory/Smith. I do not need to cite the lawsuit to prove this...it is a very simple FACT that you do not seem to want to accept.

What did I make up? Be specific.

You said that Valory/Smith did not dispute the claim of a retirement plan. You do not know this because you do not know what all was disputed in court.

He wasn't using those chops constructively in Journey (same setlist, no new music). So what good is it?

Irrelevent to my sense of humor.

Sorry. Still don't get this. Are you denying his session work and pedigree?

I am laughing at the idea that Randy Jackson is one of the best bassists in the world. LOL. See, there I go again.

Are you denying that Ross's most famous bassline (SIL) wasn't even written by Ross?

I am also not claiming he is one of the best bassists, LOL.

Have you never listened to Randy's playing on After the Fall?

Get back to me when he can play Yes' "Heart of the Sunrise", or anything else that I think is worthy of the "best bassist in the world" title.

The scenario you mentioned (record with a different drummer) is not appealing at all.

LOL...that is EXACTLY what you are getting now!

So what prevented Ross from talking to Schon/Cain before (allegedly) nominating himself to Nightmare leadership and convening an illegitimate meeting?

JTT. That is the reason this whole thing started. Neal making JTT a competitor to Journey.

Smith has been back since 2015 and there has been no new music. JTT, which didn't even exist until 2018-2019, is somehow the issue? That makes no sense at all.

Instead of working around Steve Smith, Neal chose to bypass Journey completely. Also, back then Jonathan was not on his good side either...It's convenient how there was no whining about Steve Smith or Ross back then...only in retrospect.

JTT is the start of this whole thing because Neal tried to make them his version of Journey and Nightmare did not like it.

According to this, the band should've been playing at Disney during the Deen Castronovo years.

Are you sure they didn't? I'm not.

Funny how you didn't complain back then. I wonder what changed....

Steve Smith quit Journey even before Perry did. in 1999 the Journey that existed was the Journey that was left after Perry was fired. Neal, Jonathan, and Ross...with Steve Smith quiting on his own because the time he allowed for the Journey reunion ran out, and Steve Perry being fired. So, the band had a direct connection to their legacy.

Also, Neal has changed. Back then he knew what a BAND was and Journey was a BAND. Today, he treats it like his own plaything that he alone can shape and mold however he wants. Augeri wasn't fired, he quit...even if was forced to. Neal no longer has the attitude that I quoted from the Bill Graham tribute...Journey is all about him now.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Irrelevent.
Nightmare voted for them. That is a simple FACT.

Members of Nightmare held a vote. Sure, that much is factual But IF the meeting was convened on fraudulent grounds, as Cain/Schon attests, then the vote has no weight.

I am just stating the FACT that NIGHTMARE filed the Trademark complaint, not Valory/Smith. I do not need to cite the lawsuit to prove this...it is a very simple FACT that you do not seem to want to accept.

You keep conflating the trademark complaint with the improperly held shareholder meeting. Even if they are one and the same, who appointed Valory and Smitty as the protectors of the brand? What actions can you point to showing they care about Journey in any way?

You said that Valory/Smith did not dispute the claim of a retirement plan. You do not know this because you do not know what all was disputed in court.

Neither do you. Here’s what we do know:

1) Nothing prevented Ross (or Smitty) from disputing the retirement claim leading up to the settlement.
2) Even if an NDA was signed post-settlement, actions speak volumes. Ross is doing nothing.
3) If it was false, wouldn't Neal have been served with an injunction for slander? He repeated it multiple times.

The scenario you mentioned (record with a different drummer) is not appealing at all.

LOL...that is EXACTLY what you are getting now!

You suggested using a different drummer for recording purposes only. That’s not what we got AT ALL. We got an arranger, producer, vocalist, and a drummer. How is that remotely the same as what you suggested?

Instead of working around Steve Smith, Neal chose to bypass Journey completely.

If a band has to start finding ways to exclude certain members from the creative process, then those members shouldn’t be there. Period. It sounds like you are defending Smitty’s right to use Journey as little more than an ATM.

Also, back then Jonathan was not on his good side either...It's convenient how there was no whining about Steve Smith or Ross back then...only in retrospect.

Even by 2017, Neal was saying “Ross is no help” in regards to the band’s creative stagnation. So this is just wrong.

Steve Smith quit Journey even before Perry did. in 1999 the Journey that existed was the Journey that was left after Perry was fired. Neal, Jonathan, and Ross...with Steve Smith quiting on his own because the time he allowed for the Journey reunion ran out, and Steve Perry being fired. So, the band had a direct connection to their legacy.

Also, Neal has changed. Back then he knew what a BAND was and Journey was a BAND. Today, he treats it like his own plaything that he alone can shape and mold however he wants. Augeri wasn't fired, he quit...even if was forced to. Neal no longer has the attitude that I quoted from the Bill Graham tribute...Journey is all about him now.

Blah. blah, blah. Sounds about as credible as a grand klan wizard shouting "I'm not racist! I have black friends."

We see you, and we know PRECISELY what is driving your slash-and-burn hatred for this new exciting chapter of Journey.

[JourneyHard]

Neal just wants Journey to be fun again. And guess what? He has succeeded. New music is fun! So again. Everybody wins.

[jrnyman28]

As for "connection to heritage"....who tf cares?

I think a lot more people care then you'll ever know. They blew their chance at capitalizing on it...with Neal being focused on JTT.

So that would be all those fans who didn't want the band going on without Perry and were so passionately represented online by the Perryheads? The ones you said weren't that many?

[jrnyman28]

I know I didn't follow the legal procedures as close as Monker, but I remember getting the distinct impression that there was a board meeting that voted to place Ross and Smitty on the board. And with their appointing it was then possible to bring the trademark injunction.

And I know that JTT was put together because of Neal's frustration at being blocked by most of the band from doing anything creative with Journey whether in the studio or on the stage (this included Jon and was before Smitty came back. But since Journey was Neal, Jon and Ross at that time...) This goes back years. I remember the talk of possibly doing "JRNY" as a club run to play those deep cuts.

[Monker]

I know I didn't follow the legal procedures as close as Monker, but I remember getting the distinct impression that there was a board meeting that voted to place Ross and Smitty on the board. And with their appointing it was then possible to bring the trademark injunction.

This is pretty much true. My point is, regardless of the meetings and lawsuites and how Smith/Valory got on the board at Nightmare....it is still a fact that NIGHTMARE filed the trademark complaint against JTT. It was not Smith/Valory that did it.

And, take a step back for a moment and look at what happened if everything in Neal's lawsuit is true.

That would mean that:
Nightmare forged Jonathan Cain's ELECTRONIC signature to schedule a board meeting.

Nightmare desired and planned that board meeting to kick out Schon/Cain from board leadership and replace them with Smith/Valory, and expand the number of board members to make it impossible for Schon/Cain to gain back control.

Nightmare wanted to do this to file a trademark complaint against JTT and also take control of Journey, even though they already owned the trademark.

That is how desperate Nightmare was to control Neal, JTT, and Journey...according to Neal. Doesn't that speak volumes about how out of control Neal really was/is to make Nightmare so desperate? And, that isn't even going into labeling this a 'coup' or planning for retirement. And, Nightmare includes Herbie, and Perry's representative(s), and Nightmare's attorneys...they were all in favor of this.

And I know that JTT was put together because of Neal's frustration at being blocked by most of the band from doing anything creative with Journey whether in the studio or on the stage (this included Jon and was before Smitty came back. But since Journey was Neal, Jon and Ross at that time...) This goes back years. I remember the talk of possibly doing "JRNY" as a club run to play those deep cuts.

It's always everybody elses fault. I can't blame Azoff for telling Neal to quit if he is so anhappy. I also can't blame Azoff for walking away from this disaster. Journey has become nothing but drama and that's not good for business.

[Monker]

As for "connection to heritage"....who tf cares?

I think a lot more people care then you'll ever know. They blew their chance at capitalizing on it...with Neal being focused on JTT.

So that would be all those fans who didn't want the band going on without Perry and were so passionately represented online by the Perryheads? The ones you said weren't that many?

No.

There are literally tens of thousands, or even hundreds of thousands, of people who go to the concerts who never post to these forums.

Back in the mid-90's I saw Little River Band twicw within a month. The second time was at the grandstand at the fair, some disco act canceled a free concert...I think it was Donna Summers or someone like that. LRB filled in and gave one of the best concerts I have ever seen to this date. It was awesome, but I'm not going to get into that. People started leaving after that. First was their lead singer, Glen Shorrock. He was replaced by the very capable Steve Wade. I saw them a year later and they were still very good. Then Ian Mason left...he was in the band "Player" and sang "Baby Come Back". Ok, well, I guess that just meant they could do more LRB songs. Then Steve Wade left and was never replaced. And, their very long time drummer Derek Pelucci left.

They went from performing the grandstand at the fair to 10,000 - 15,000 people, to performing outside festivals with Steve Wade singing, to performing 500 GA capacity at a local ballroom. Yeah, they can release new music. Yeah, they can still tour. Yeah, you can say a member was with them back in the 80's. So what. They are nothing compared to the band I saw....and people know that.

That is where Journey is headed under Schon's "leadership". He has successfully fired everybody but himself and Jonathan Cain.