MR

Neal has stated now that in hindsight he would've re-formed Journey alot sooner than 1998 (or 96 if you count the Chalfant, Rolie lineup that got sidetracked by Perry's return).

Who agree with Neal, that him and Jon shouldn't have waited twelve long years for, as Herbie calls it, The Perry Dream?

Who feels Neal and Jon shoudl've reformed the band shortly after ROR?

Who doesn't feel this way?

Thoughts?

The_Noble_Cause wrote:Neal has stated now that in hindsight he would've re-formed Journey alot sooner than 1998 (or 96 if you count the Chalfant, Rolie lineup that got sidetracked by Perry's return).

Who agree with Neal, that him and Jon shouldn't have waited twelve long years for, as Herbie calls it, The Perry Dream?

Who feels Neal and Jon shoudl've reformed the band shortly after ROR?

Who doesn't feel this way?

Thoughts?

You mean reformed Journey without Perry right after ROR? Journey MIGHT would have been successful for the last couple of years in the 1980's and MAYBE the first couple of years in the 1990's, but I don't really believe they would have remained as such throughout the 1990's with the grunge scene, alternative scene, and the boy bands ruling radio.

The only reason why Journey was even romotely successful with Trial By Fire was Perry's vocals on the album. Not that I'm a Perry worshipper mind you, but having the orginal voice of the band gave Journey in that era a legimate chance at success. Not to mention that Journey had their first grammy nominated song - 'When You Love A Woman.'

I think Neal and Jon did the best thing they could after ROR - and that was forming Bad English. I think if Bad English could have stayed together, THAT band might have been as successful as Journey was through the 1980's.

I can't wait for Monker to respond...I know what he will say.

But to be honest, seeing how everything played out, I would say YES! Journey should have found someone in the late 80's to sing for them. In some ways, I think it would have been easier then, than it was after the ill-fated reunion. If jOurney had made an announcement that Steve Perry had left the band and that they would be looking for a replacement, it would have been easier for the fans to accept. Instead, we have fans that believe Perry left, and others that believe that he was left.

I don't know how it would have affected Journey's longevity, but it could have been cool for Journey fans.

Shortly after ROR? You mean in 1988 or so?

To be honest, I don't think so. Neal and Jonathan went into Bad English and had success there. After BE fell apart, I think they should have looked into reforming Journey. That is exactly what happened. But, it happened slowly...and probably not until after Hardline fell apart. I think they should have went with the Chalfant/Rolie lineup at that time and stuck to their guns instead of allowing Sony pressure them into accepting Perry back. I doubt the success would have been any less then TBF, a one hit wonder album with no tour. They had the ORIGINAL voice of Journey back, Gregg Rolie, they would have toured, and they would have had Herbie managing. IMO, it's hard to argue these facts would have led to a 'less successful' effort.

Also, I think they should have axed Perry BEFORE ROR...but I'm not sure who would have replaced him...Michael Bolton? (bleh!) Maybe, Eric Martin? Not sure if Chalfant would have been in the picture back then. Instead, they did the exact opposite and let Perry have TOTAL control. THAT was the biggest mistake Journey ever made and it took a LOT of time to unravel.

Great post, Monker. I agree with it all. Why did Bad English break up, anyway? I didn't care for them, but they weren't bad (other than their name!).

I used to like a group called Giuffria who had a singer who, I thought, sounded a lot like Perry. Do you guys remember them? His name was David Glen Eisley. Remember their song "Call to the Heart"? I thought that was Journey the first time I heard it! I still like that album a lot.

NealIsGod wrote:Great post, Monker. I agree with it all. Why did Bad English break up, anyway? I didn't care for them, but they weren't bad (other than their name!).

I used to like a group called Giuffria who had a singer who, I thought, sounded a lot like Perry. Do you guys remember them? His name was David Glen Eisley. Remember their song "Call to the Heart"? I thought that was Journey the first time I heard it! I still like that album a lot.

Well, there is a Journey Force interview where Jonathan explains that the reason for the band itself to exist just ceased. He described it as a group of friends getting together...they were all successful and they didn't need to become a 'corporate, kiss-ass, rock band', but that is what they became. He said he had to strike deals just to get his songs on the album. They only allowed "Ghost In Your Heart" on the album because he agreed to allow "When I See You Smile". He said, "John Waite, Jonathan Cain, Neal Schon, and Ricky Phillips can't write songs good enough to be put on the album? I DON'T THINK SO!" He described the recording of Backlash as becoming the "John Waite" show and the band started unraveling. He said the label could see how screwed up things were and didn't even try to keep them together. After the album was finished, they basicaly went their separate ways. The label tried to put John Waite out there to promote the album, but Neal eventualy announced Hardline and that was the end of the album.

He said there is a life, a soul, an existence for a band. In the end IT ceased, IT stopped being. He said they had a number one single on the charts but couldn't sell 500 seats...that told him what he needed to know.

Here is part of that interview...

"The record company looked at us as a business investment for them and it turned into a question of money. It was an expensive band to run because John is from New York, Deen is from Portland and Neal and I are from San Francisco. When you have bicoastal bands, it can get very expensive. The record company immediately got nervous about their investment because we had spent a lot of money in pre-production costs before the record was even made. The whole experience taught me a lot about production and planning for a record. You have to be careful because money gets to be such a factor that the music can take a back seat to, 'Well, is this a hit?'

"John lied to himself and to us in the sense that he wanted to be in a band, but he wanted to be a pop star, too. When you join a band you have to make a commitment to the people in the band to be true to the entity and not just to what YOU want. I think John sort of lost sight of that and it was more, 'I want to be a star and I don't care what it takes, so we're doing this song.' We have outtakes of real adventurous kinds of music that I was very keen on doing. There are things that we could have done that would have blown people's minds. They might not have been big hit songs, but would have at least given us a musical direction. The kinds of things that we were doing were really fun and I thought that they were free, but John didn't think they were hits, so they got left by the wayside.

"I didn't think very many people would care when we left and I was right. We had a number one record but we couldn't even sell 1,500 seats. That told me what I needed to know. A band has a fate and a life and an existence. You either believe in it and trust it and nurture it or it dies. It's like planting a tree in the wrong climate. It's going to die. That's what happened to Bad English. IT vaporized. IT just withered away, and in the end, all that great music just kind of went by the wayside. the only good thing is that there are still CDs out there so we haven't totally vaporized yet."

IN HINDSIGHT.....

Journey should have replaced Perry in '84 after the Frontiers Tour with Mickey Thomas......

Monker wrote:Here is part of that interview...

"We have outtakes of real adventurous kinds of music that I was very keen on doing. There are things that we could have done that would have blown people's minds. They might not have been big hit songs, but would have at least given us a musical direction. The kinds of things that we were doing were really fun and I thought that they were free, but John didn't think they were hits, so they got left by the wayside."

I would LOVE to hear some of that!
The first excerpt is Jon speaking. But I am guessing this is Neal speaking. Otherwise, I don't usually think of 'adventurous' and Jon Cain in the same context.

Monker wrote:Shortly after ROR? You mean in 1988 or so?

To be honest, I don't think so. Neal and Jonathan went into Bad English and had success there. After BE fell apart, I think they should have looked into reforming Journey. That is exactly what happened. But, it happened slowly...and probably not until after Hardline fell apart. I think they should have went with the Chalfant/Rolie lineup at that time and stuck to their guns instead of allowing Sony pressure them into accepting Perry back. I doubt the success would have been any less then TBF, a one hit wonder album with no tour. They had the ORIGINAL voice of Journey back, Gregg Rolie, they would have toured, and they would have had Herbie managing. IMO, it's hard to argue these facts would have led to a 'less successful' effort.

Also, I think they should have axed Perry BEFORE ROR...but I'm not sure who would have replaced him...Michael Bolton? (bleh!) Maybe, Eric Martin? Not sure if Chalfant would have been in the picture back then. Instead, they did the exact opposite and let Perry have TOTAL control. THAT was the biggest mistake Journey ever made and it took a LOT of time to unravel.

That's a great post Monker! And...I see where you are coming from with Gregg Rollie and Chalfant. Then again, it seems to me that when Journey was at the height of their success was after Rollie left. But....if Journey was interested in having the Journey of the 70's, then Rollie and Calfant in the band instead of Perry would have probably been a better deal.

Eric wrote:IN HINDSIGHT.....

Journey should have replaced Perry in '84 after the Frontiers Tour with Mickey Thomas......

Nahhh....I couldn't ever see that....

As far as the band members itself excluding the talent part, yeah Perry should have left and the band should have kept Valory and Smith - and Journey could have gotten someone different..hahahah Steve Augeri!! LOL Or, what is his name that was the frontman for Bad Company for a while?

But, I thought ROR was a very good album - it certainly had success and is actually one of my favorite Journey albums when I'm in the mood to listen to them.

if Journey was interested in having the Journey of the 70's, then Rollie and Calfant in the band instead of Perry would have probably been a better deal.

Had that been in the works? I know Rolie's name had been tossed around in the 96 reunion; but I hadn't heard about Chalfant being involved.

How close did that come to happening?

Hippie,
Rollie and Chalfant were both in.
Kevin Chalfant has said that he will (or has) record/ed some of the songs written during that time.

Does anyone have a copy or heard any of these songs Kevin song on? If so are they any good? Kevin is one of my favorite singers in the business.

On the Bad english side, I have a cd that is suppose to be unreleased songs that never made it onto their cds. Production is ok, they do sound like demos, but I am not positive they are Bad english. Could be John Waite solo. Neal' axe isn't really there.-ERIC

Monker wrote:...but I'm not sure who would have replaced him...Michael Bolton? (bleh!) Maybe, Eric Martin? Not sure if Chalfant would have been in the picture back then. Instead, they did the exact opposite and let Perry have TOTAL control. THAT was the biggest mistake Journey ever made and it took a LOT of time to unravel.

Eric Martin could possibly have been a good replacement. Good singer, good looking, good stage presence. Michael Bolton? Never!

Their biggest mistake was NOT replacing Perry the very first time he pulled what was to become his usual crap. Too bad they couldn't look into the future and see what was going to happen.

yak wrote:

Monker wrote:...but I'm not sure who would have replaced him...Michael Bolton? (bleh!) Maybe, Eric Martin? Not sure if Chalfant would have been in the picture back then. Instead, they did the exact opposite and let Perry have TOTAL control. THAT was the biggest mistake Journey ever made and it took a LOT of time to unravel.

Eric Martin could possibly have been a good replacement. Good singer, good looking, good stage presence. Michael Bolton? Never!

Their biggest mistake was NOT replacing Perry the very first time he pulled what was to become his usual crap. Too bad they couldn't look into the future and see what was going to happen.

The chemistry has helped them play at casinos, fairs, and campground in 2005.

Journeytroll

JourneyTroll wrote:The chemistry has helped them play at casinos, fairs, and campground in 2005.

I'll take that chemistry over the Journey chemistry that led to Bad English, Hardline, the Storm, and reunions that have no tours.

yak wrote:Eric Martin could possibly have been a good replacement. Good singer, good looking, good stage presence. Michael Bolton? Never!

I agree...and Eric Martin was managed by Herbie.

Their biggest mistake was NOT replacing Perry the very first time he pulled what was to become his usual crap. Too bad they couldn't look into the future and see what was going to happen.

The problem was that Perry wrestled too much control away from Herbie. The band should have backed up Herbie and trusted his judgement, which is what led them to the success they had with Escape and Frontiers. Instead, they put their faith and trust in Perry, which led to the band's downfall after ROR, and TBF.