MR

By now, even the most verdant of Journey fans probably knows that the original version of "Frontiers" was to feature two of Journey's all-time best songs, "Ask the Lonely" along with "Only the Young".

Providentally seeing that it would make more financial sense to release those two tracks individually as prospective soundtrack singles, they were taken off the album and "Back Talk" and "Troubled Child" were placed on there in lieu of them.

Former Sony guru and current Sanctuary CEO, John Kalodner says that if "Frontiers" had came out as initially planned (with both ATL & OTY) it would be one of the best melodic rock albums of all time. I feel, as it currently stands, it still remains one of Journey's strongest works. However, I must admit it would be all the more better if those two tracks had stayed on there. I mean "Troubled Child" and "Back Talk" have their respective merits, but neither are nearly as good as "Only the Young" & "Ask the Lonely".

So.........
Who likes the album the way it is?
Who here wishes that they didn't tinker with it and left "ATL" and "OTY" on there?

The_Noble_Cause wrote:Who likes the album the way it is?
Who here wishes that they didn't tinker with it and left "ATL" and "OTY" on there?

I think they it is best the way it is. One side is pop/rock and the other side is progressive. Changing it the songs as suggested removes the entire concept presented for the Frontiers album.

What I find interesting is that Neal has said that Schon & Hammer's "Self Defence" was written for Frontiers...That would have fit nicely on side 2 and kept the same concept for the album. If it is going to be on Generations, it will be interesting to see how "Fronteirs" like it sounds when performed by Journey.

I definately prefer Frontiers the way it is. I love the more experimental feel to the album. It worked because it was on vinyl/cassette...two sides!

We have no way of knowing how the 'original' version of Frontiers would have sold. I doubt it would have made a big deal, Frontiers was running out of steam anyway. Those two tracks would have not received as much attention on the CD but they DID receive much attention as Soundtrack singles. And they prolonged Journey's visibility during the tour and subsequent recording of ROR.

Frontiers is better as is. BUT if they had left it alone, it may have given Escape more of a run for sales.-ERIC

Abitaman wrote:Frontiers is better as is. BUT if they had left it alone, it may have given Escape more of a run for sales.-ERIC

I agree with part of your statement Eric. But leaving it alone means keeping BackTalk on the album...arguably, and this was a thread, Journey's worst tune ever...
Ironically, Ask The Lonely is my all-time favorite Journey tune...

I always liked "Troubled Child", so I would keep that on there. I wouldn't have minded subbing "Ask The Lonely" for "Back Talk". Though I grew to like "Back Talk", "Ask The Lonely" is one of my all time favorites.

I know I'm in the minority on this one, but I never really thought "Only the Young" was that great a song. It is good, but I like "Troubled Child" more.

Just my opinion.

SF-DANO wrote:I know I'm in the minority on this one, but I never really thought "Only the Young" was that great a song. It is good, but I like "Troubled Child" more.

Just my opinion.

Well, You are not alone. Ask The Lonely is great, but Only The Young is a little dull at times...

Troubled Child is a great song. And I love the way Perry holds that "mooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooon"!!!
I actually like Back Talk, but I guess it is because I have kids and I can relate. And while it is not a great song, it is very different for Journey. Plus, I love the drums pounding through that song.

I would have kept Only the Young and Ask the Lonely and dumped Rubicon and BackTalk. That would put the album on par with ESC4P3, IMO.

NealIsGod wrote:I would have kept Only the Young and Ask the Lonely and dumped Rubicon and BackTalk. That would put the album on par with ESC4P3, IMO.

Dump Rubicon?
Are you out of your gord?
I love that song.
I've always found it to compliment the title track very nicely, too.

hi, its my favorite journey cd /album and though I like it the way it is..it would be hands down the best they ever did with those 2 tracks added..IMHO sometimes, when u mess with success u fuck it up..in this case, I'd say no..the songs fit perfectly with the rest of the cd....

just my 2 cents...


augeri rocks!!!!!



chi-town crazy mar'tay

lukeisgod wrote:hi, its my favorite journey cd /album and though I like it the way it is..it would be hands down the best they ever did with those 2 tracks added..IMHO sometimes, when u mess with success u fuck it up..in this case, I'd say no..the songs fit perfectly with the rest of the cd....

just my 2 cents...


augeri rocks!!!!!



chi-town crazy mar'tay

I agree luke. Those two tracks are classics, though I do like Rubicon and Troubled Child a LOT.

I don't dislike Rubicon, it's just that I prefer OTY and ATL to it. And the only song I DON'T like on Frontiers is BackTalk. Rubicon would be my second, albeit painful, cut from the album. Nowadays it is not uncommon for a CD to have up to 18 tracks, so imagine Frontiers the way it is, with OTY and ATL included as well. Maybe I will burn a new copy of Frontiers and add them myself!

Was No More Lies really written for Frontiers as well? That doesn't fit at all. I find it hard to believe.

NealIsGod wrote:Was No More Lies really written for Frontiers as well? That doesn't fit at all. I find it hard to believe.

I hadn't heard that...but Self-Defense was.

Thought this one was worth visiting again. I never got to weigh in and though obviously it would be a better record with ATL and OTY added, I have to have Frontiers the way it is. It wouldn't be Frontiers with those 2 added or instead of 2 others.

As I understand it, I think per the Time liner notes it was never scheduled to include the 10 tracks plus these 2. Rather, these 2 were planned to be part of the record's 10 and were replaced at the last minute by Troubled Child (love it) and Back Talk (like it). Weird, but it makes Frontiers the lean mean rock album it is. Drop Rubicon, NealIsGod

I would also keep Troubled Child and replace BT with one of the other two.

I agree that I like it the way it is!
I think things worked the way they should. If Journey had left the ATL and OTY on Frontiers then we might not have gotten anything from Journey after the Frontiers Tour Before ROR...

yep. but then...in a parallel world there exists a Frontiers that has Only The Young, Ask The Lonely AND We're All That Really Matters. Maybe Liberty too, unless that was and ESC4P3 outtake.

But then we also might not have enough brilliant material for Time3.

I made my own Frontiers with Only The Young and Ask The Lonely.

Back Talk and Troubled Child seem like replacement fillers to me, anyway.

Had OTY and ATL been on the album, it would have been up there with Escape.

What a bonehead thing they did

But Columbia had them pull ATL and OTY at the 11th hour in favor of BT and TC. They must've thought the filler was the former instead of the latter.

Troubled Child especially is a very cool tune.

ATL and OTY are both good songs in their own right. But Troubled Child is an incredible tune, much much better. Back Talk needed to be there only to show that this version of the band(Cain) did more than just write love songs. Lord knows we have enough of Cains sappy sugary lovey dovey shit songs.

cubby69 wrote:ATL and OTY are both good songs in their own right. But Troubled Child is an incredible tune, much much better. Back Talk needed to be there only to show that this version of the band(Cain) did more than just write love songs. Lord knows we have enough of Cains sappy sugary lovey dovey shit songs.

"Troubled Child" might have a little more lyrical depth going on (and even that's arguable) but I prefer OTY hands down easily.

Just got done a spin. First time in a while.
Side 2 is nothing short of a goddam tour-de-force. This record is very very close to being as good as ESC4P3.

Red13JoePa wrote:Just got done a spin. First time in a while.
Side 2 is nothing short of a goddam tour-de-force. This record is very very close to being as good as ESC4P3.

I'd agree if it weren't for Back Talk. IMO, Journey's worst song, only seconded by Dead or Alive.

amaron wrote:

Red13JoePa wrote:Just got done a spin. First time in a while.
Side 2 is nothing short of a goddam tour-de-force. This record is very very close to being as good as ESC4P3.

I'd agree if it weren't for Back Talk. IMO, Journey's worst song, only seconded by Dead or Alive.

So wouldn't those two songs cancel each other out, amaron? You place Frontiers #2, after ESC4P3?

NealIsGod wrote:

amaron wrote:

Red13JoePa wrote:Just got done a spin. First time in a while.
Side 2 is nothing short of a goddam tour-de-force. This record is very very close to being as good as ESC4P3.

I'd agree if it weren't for Back Talk. IMO, Journey's worst song, only seconded by Dead or Alive.

So wouldn't those two songs cancel each other out, amaron? You place Frontiers #2, after ESC4P3?

BARELY #2. It's probably because I've listened to Frontiers waayy too much and gotten a little burnt out of it. I just really dislike Back Talk that much.

NealIsGod wrote:I would have kept Only the Young and Ask the Lonely and dumped Rubicon and BackTalk. That would put the album on par with ESC4P3, IMO.

Yep, that's what I think too. Go figure.

[quote="The_Noble_Cause"]By now, even the most verdant of Journey fans probably knows that the original version of "Frontiers" was to feature two of Journey's all-time best songs, "Ask the Lonely" along with "Only the Young".

Providentally seeing that it would make more financial sense to release those two tracks individually as prospective soundtrack singles, they were taken off the album and "Back Talk" and "Troubled Child" were placed on there in lieu of them.

Former Sony guru and current Sanctuary CEO, John Kalodner says that if "Frontiers" had came out as initially planned (with both ATL & OTY) it would be one of the best melodic rock albums of all time. I feel, as it currently stands, it still remains one of Journey's strongest works. However, I must admit it would be all the more better if those two tracks had stayed on there. I mean "Troubled Child" and "Back Talk" have their respective merits, but neither are nearly as good as "Only the Young" & "Ask the Lonely".

So.........
Who likes the album the way it is?
Who here wishes that they didn't tinker with it and left "ATL" and "OTY" on there?[/quote]

I like Back Talk, but prefer Only the Young and Ask the Lonely. Two of the best songs.

I think Frontiers would have been perfect if BT had some different lyrics and actual singing or if it had been replaced by Self Defense. OTY and ATL are great songs but would have made Frontiers too pop. They should have been included on Freedom...Rubicon is one of the best tunes they ever did imo and is one of the best tunes ever done live by the current Journey.