MR

So, I read the Herbie Herbert interview that Noble Cause posted a link to. I had read it years ago, but forgot a lot of it.

It seems that Perry was a real control-freak. To be fair, Herbie sounds a bit arrogant to me, but anyway. According to him, the demise of Journey happened in large part due to Perry.

What do you all think of this? Do you think it's true?

Is Herbie notorious for being an arrogant SOB, or is he simply an honest guy with a chip on his shoulder? It's hard to read him, but I'm willing to give him a benefit of the doubt.

I love Perry's voice, but hate the idea that he may have really been a jerk to work with.

Most great artists, though, are notoriously difficult.

My other question is: Why do you think Schon didn't do something sooner, and allowed Perry to essentially string them along, as it were (at least according to Herbie)?

Herbie smacked of sour grapes, rightfully so. But I do not think he lied about the events. He is a straight-shooter. I just think his tone was harsh because of his feelings.

Bloodflower wrote:So, I read the Herbie Herbert interview that Noble Cause posted a link to. I had read it years ago, but forgot a lot of it.

It seems that Perry was a real control-freak. To be fair, Herbie sounds a bit arrogant to me, but anyway. According to him, the demise of Journey happened in large part due to Perry.

What do you all think of this? Do you think it's true?

O boy, I have been waiting for this one..
Herbie sounds arrogant? Ok, he is. He is the sole reason Journey ever became HUGE. If he wasn't there, Schon and Valory would still be doing Golden Gate Rthym crap...Schon needed guidance..Hell, he was only 18 or so years of age. Schon hints at Herbie being a father figure to him.

It seems Perry was a control freak? Uh, where have you been the last twenty or so years? Perry came onto the scene in 1977, and started the Infinity sessions. Hey, by all accounts, he was a shy kid...That is, until he and others saw that he was in fact changing the band with his voice..It was a good thing. However, dude was all too high on himself after Escape.. He thought he was the President, the Prime Minister..Hell he thought he was King, and there was no democracy. His voice was it..He was the shit. Sure it was all good when you're selling out 4 nights at a time, and selling shitloads of records....
Perry just wasn't a control freak then, he was at his peak in 1986. The worst era for the band. They weren't Journey. They were Steve Perry and the San Francisco Bay band. And they sucked big time too. Poppy fluffy crap, guitar turned down, gay looking clothing, and even gayer hair doo's..I know Neal has still got to be pissed he let him control that much...and then Perry says on TV, "I never felt like I was part of the Band." We don't need to rehash that bullshit and his other lies.....That's when I went from being a super perry fan, to a "Perry is an asshole" observer.

Is Herbie notorious for being an arrogant SOB, or is he simply an honest guy with a chip on his shoulder? It's hard to read him, but I'm willing to give him a benefit of the doubt.

I have. He didn't have to do an interview. Hell he owns half of Frisco..Dude was saavy, and made that bands oodles of scratch..They IMO, owe him big time.

I love Perry's voice, but hate the idea that he may have really been a jerk to work with.

Yep, that's how I feel now. But I would use another word for jerk. Didn't Herbie call him a Motherfucker in the interview? He also said "If you were drowning, and Steve Perry came along on his big yacht, he might throw you a life raft."

Most great artists, though, are notoriously difficult.

Is that some sort of an excuse? There are a lot of super artists who are good people, if not great people. Bruce Springsteen comes to mind, as does Shania Twain. Hey, give me fame and fortune, and watch what a great person I become. Don't feed me this crap.

My other question is: Why do you think Schon didn't do something sooner, and allowed Perry to essentially string them along, as it were (at least according to Herbie)?

Good question. I wonder what Neal would say now. It must be hard to cut your lead singer(the most identifiable face in the band), even though he is a major asshole. I would like to know that if he knew Augeri would work out the way he has, he might have pulled the plug sooner, rather than take a decade long vacation, and lose your place in popularity.

Rock'ndeano wrote:It seems Perry was a control freak? Uh, where have you been the last twenty or so years?

For the last time, I have not been following Journey much in recent years. And when I did follow them in the 80s, I never read anything negative about Perry. I only read good stuff - perhaps because I was reading crap teen mags.

Rock'ndeano wrote:
Is that some sort of an excuse? There are a lot of super artists who are good people, if not great people. Bruce Springsteen comes to mind, as does Shania Twain. Hey, give me fame and fortune, and watch what a great person I become. Don't feed me this crap.

No, it's not an excuse. It's an observation. Stop reading so much into everything I post, please.

Thanks for your other comments. I had no idea about all of this until I read the Herbie interview - which I had read several years ago, but forgotten about.

It's too bad someone you admire so much is seemingly such an ass (I say seemingly because I do not know him). But I have a feeling most of the artists we respect are assholes in one form or another. Sadly.

Bloodflower, I was being sarcasstic asking where have you've been crack!

Sorry about that. Look in your PM, ok?

Bloodflower wrote:So, I read the Herbie Herbert interview that Noble Cause posted a link to. I had read it years ago, but forgot a lot of it.

It seems that Perry was a real control-freak. To be fair, Herbie sounds a bit arrogant to me, but anyway. According to him, the demise of Journey happened in large part due to Perry.

What do you all think of this? Do you think it's true?

I think it is absolutely true. I was saying some of these same things years before that interview.

Herbie is very 'in your face' and 'this is how it was, deal with it!' But, I think he was tired of all of the Perry idol worship that was going on, and still goes on...The fans crediting Perry for EVERYTHING, all of Journey's success....and putting him on a pedestal above so many others. So, this was his rebuttal to all of the years of "Perry is Journey's savior" talk....and he held nothing back.

I love Perry's voice, but hate the idea that he may have really been a jerk to work with.

Honestly, as a fan, why do you care how he was to work with? If you like the end result, does it matter how it was achieved? Are you a fan of Perry's art, or just of the man himself?

My other question is: Why do you think Schon didn't do something sooner, and allowed Perry to essentially string them along, as it were (at least according to Herbie)?

Well, after Journey, Bad English happened. After Bad English, Hardline happened. After Hardline, Abraxas Pool happened. After Abraxas Pool, Journey happened again. Did Neal need Steve Perry to continue making music?

As for 'wating for Perry' to return to Journey...Well, Perry owned part of the name. They would have to strike a deal with Perry in order to continue Journey without him. Herbie basicaly said they gave up WAY too much to continue on without him. Even today, Perry still owns a part of the Journey name and has some control over band decisions....

So, as long as they had other roads in the music business to persue, why give up so much just so Journey could move on without Perry? Why not patiently wait for Perry to return?

After TBF and Perry balking yet again, whether you believe the hip story or are like Herbie and don't, WHY NOT move on without him since it became OBVIOUS that Perry was no longer a lead singer who could be relied upon. Sure, "it's not a band decision...." But, not considering the situation with the band forces the band to MAKE it a band decision to move on without you.

Monker wrote:Honestly, as a fan, why do you care how he was to work with? If you like the end result, does it matter how it was achieved? Are you a fan of Perry's art, or just of the man himself?

Actually Monker, I do. Take a sports team or a sports player. What if you really like a player, but find out he sells crack and beats his wife. Would you still publicly support him?

Take Michael Jackson. How anyone can publicly say they like him is beyond me.

Now, I am not saying Steve Perry is anything like those two examples, but I consider myself a hardcore fan, and firmly entrenched in Journey history. So, thinking that I know something deep about the Band, ...yeah, it bothers me.

On the other hand, I have said before, Neal Schon is a great dude. I would go to war with that guy.

I am a fan of Perry's voice first and foremost but let's face it: we all care about the inner workings of a band. It's interesting, if nothing else, but not essential to our liking of the band, in the end.

I can't imagine that Perry still owns part of the Journey name. I don't know that much about how these things work, but I certainly didn't think you could OWN part of the name of a band.

So he still has control over some of the things they can do? That doesn't seem right. Does he still get money, too, from the things they are doing?? Herbie seemed to allude to that.

I do think Perry brought a ton to Journey. And I continue to think they were silly for carrying on Journey without him. I just think they coulda moved on, and done different things (as Schon has done with his solo stuff, which I want to get). It seems weird to continue with the Journey institution, especially considering what they have to sacrifice because of it.

My last post on this topic, Bloodflower.

Perry does have some "rights" on Journey still.. And if anyone tells you that they know for sure is lying. A good person to maybe ask would Andrew, but I wonder if he would tell much. I do believe Perry is/was a 1/6th member for sometime, maybe even now..meaning whatever Journey does, he gets a piece...I could be mistaken.

And if you don't think this band should have moved on, well, you should go to a show and see for yourself..plus you get the CD free(since you won't accept one from me!).

Look at it this way- if the Perry fans(the hardcores), didn't argue so vehemently, that tells you Journey are still enjoying success. Right?

Bloodflower wrote:I can't imagine that Perry still owns part of the Journey name. I don't know that much about how these things work, but I certainly didn't think you could OWN part of the name of a band.

So he still has control over some of the things they can do? That doesn't seem right. Does he still get money, too, from the things they are doing?? Herbie seemed to allude to that.

At one time it was reported that Perry still earns 1/6th of the earnings from Journey. Think of Journey as a business with shareholders. There are 6 shareholders in Journey: Perry, Neal, Jon, Steve, Deen, Ross.

AND he of course still gets his royalties from the music he helped create.

BUT Perry said recently that he is in no way involved with Journey and that all his contracts have expired. So maybe there was a time limit and that time has passed.

Perry retains control over ANY Journey merchandising from HIS era of the band or containing any songs he has helped create. ANY DVD must have his permission if it has any song from his era performed. However, a live CD only needs the royalty agreements worked out prior.

Bloodflower wrote:I do think Perry brought a ton to Journey. And I continue to think they were silly for carrying on Journey without him. I just think they coulda moved on, and done different things (as Schon has done with his solo stuff, which I want to get). It seems weird to continue with the Journey institution, especially considering what they have to sacrifice because of it.

Perry did bring a lot to the band...no question. But there was a Journey before Perry and there is one after. He was a major part of the puzzle but he was not the sole reason for Journey's success and he was not (ever) a sole member of Journey. Hell, he didn't even feel like a member of the band, so why should the name end with him?

In an interview for Arrival, Neal said that his guitar was calling Journey again. When he was hearing songs in his head, they were Journey songs. THAT is why he wanted to get Journey going again. Besides, Journey has been a part of his life since he was 18-19...that a lot to 'let go of'.

Bloodflower wrote:Why do you think Schon didn't do something sooner, and allowed Perry to essentially string them along, as it were (at least according to Herbie)?

I would guess that fame, celebrity, money, success are all pretty good reasons to "let go of the reigns" as Neal said in BTM. I can't understand it either, looking back on it now. But I am sure at the time it was 'harder to see'. He was riding this huge wave, I am sure there were a lot of peope telling him he 'had to'. Seems to me that it is a difficult prospect to cut your lead singer (who was a HUGE part of your success) just because you cannot get along with someone.

But imagine if Journey had continued on with a new lead singer back in 1987? There were rumors of Mickey Thomas and Micheal Bolton. The latter would have been a horrible choice. But I think if it had been done during the height of their success, it might have been easier. Come to an agreement with Perry, make an announcement, put out new material while the fans are still paying attention...it would have been a little smoother IMO.

jrnyman28 wrote:In an interview for Arrival, Neal said that his guitar was calling Journey again. When he was hearing songs in his head, they were Journey songs. THAT is why he wanted to get Journey going again. Besides, Journey has been a part of his life since he was 18-19...that a lot to 'let go of'.

Exactly the reason that Neal is the heart and soul of the band.

Somebody mention Micheal Bolton?

He looks fantastic with his haircut. Do You all think that Augeri should get his hair cut? I do indeed.

Herby's thoughts did smack of a lot of axes to grind. But through all the vitriol I see that he was telling the truth. Laced with totally scathing language, but none the less.

To HOT's thought....mmmmmmmmm I wonder how good Augie would look with shorter hair. I don't know .I'm thinking Michael Hutchence circa 1990, the X tour.

I have to laugh at how you guys jump on any new poster to make sure that they are filled in on all the rumored background of Journey/Perry. It's about the 999th time that it's been recorded here.
Good Luck! If you can get fans to change their minds about Perry, the artist, the man, good for you.
I've been posting for years and so far there have been only two, to my knowledge that have been influenced, maybe three if you do your job here..

HOTS, this poster has actually expressed an interest in learning Journey's history. We are merely trying to help out. I don't see anyone (other RED in the other thread) really "jumping" on her now. Deano made some sarcastic remarks but has already 'handled' that.

Don't try and make this into an "us" against "them" thing...it clearly is not.

What are you talking about, HOTS? I love the Perry era. But I can't accept ONLY that erea...

jrnyman28 wrote:HOTS, this poster has actually expressed an interest in learning Journey's history. We are merely trying to help out. I don't see anyone (other RED in the other thread) really "jumping" on her now. Deano made some sarcastic remarks but has already 'handled' that.

Don't try and make this into an "us" against "them" thing...it clearly is not.

Yeah, let's not let the board get out of hand again.

Jrnyman has been the nicest - so has Deano, after we worked out our "stuff."

But a couple of others won't relent. So. The board is out of hand again, and this time, I had nothing to do with it.

Good luck in maintaining peace.

It's not outa hand, and it's not getting outa hand.

heardonthestreet wrote: Do You all think that Augeri should get his hair cut? I do indeed.

Since when did YOU give two shits about Augeri, anyway?

Hey! It could give the band an up to date look. Admit it. So I'm thinking about how Journey looks and not Augeri personally.. So what?

heardonthestreet wrote:Somebody mention Micheal Bolton?

He looks fantastic with his haircut. Do You all think that Augeri should get his hair cut? I do indeed.

Glad to hear your concern for Augeri! Didn't know you cared so much. You probably would like him to go sit on the runway at JFK too.

Hey HOTS, you keep it up.. I am not even remotely thinking of fighting you. It's the same skipped record being replayed over and over and over again. Quite pathetic..

Now, I will wait to see how I broke the Forum rules and how i was direspectful..

C'mon, this is dumb. Who gives a shit about Steve Augeri's hair. This isn't BT. This is melodic-fucking-rock.com.

Yea with that Avatar NealIsGod, you're obviously a guy who doesn't worry about bad hair.

When are we get rid of the ascott one and get the classic NIG one back, too?

NealIsGod wrote:C'mon, this is dumb. Who gives a shit about Steve Augeri's hair. This isn't BT. This is melodic-fucking-rock.com.

Now NIG, a poster(who has MR rights) has expressed concern for our frontman's hair. We should really give her the stage.

Bullshit. Just ignore IT and move on.

I got some bad news NIG..The kitty I got and named after you...is dead..Coyote got him..

Thanks for shitting all over my weekend, Deano.

It's not about hair. It's about making the band look less dated. It would draw a lot of fans to the concerts, to see him without his long hair, once word got around.

Well, Slash has big fuzzy perm fro. Does that make Velvet Revolver look dated

NealIsGod wrote:Thanks for shitting all over my weekend, Deano.

Fuck, I'm sorry. I can't help it if those bastards are so lazy they won't chase rabbits? NIG got outside when I left the door open...