What the dude at the House of Blues Said

[Jeremey]

It was funny. Last weekend I was in Cleveland doing my one man show and Barry and I decided to go check out the House of Blues, as we are playing there in December. On Sunday mornings they have this big "Gospel Brunch" or something, where they have awesome gospel music and serve chicken and waffles and the like. So the place was open and staffed, and there was this rasta dude working the merchandise cart out in the lobby. So i was asking him about the venue and shit, then i told him we were a Journey tribute. I told him we normally draw pretty well - easily several hundred people at most shows, and he said he thought we were going to do real well, but that

"You'd probably get a bigger crowd if you advertised that you were going to beat Steve Perry on stage!" and he laughed, like this was a real funny joke.

What the hell!?!?

Do people really hate steve perry so much?

i think it comes from the Rolling Stone and Rock and Roll Hall of Fame mentality that thinks Steve Perry ruined Journey...the whole santana meets jerry garcia vibe that got mashed and molded and packaged and sold when steve perry joined the band.

Personally, i think it was the phenomenal success that ESCAPE brought the band, and steve perry, being the identifiable voice on that record ("so heeere I am, with oooooopen aaaahaams")....he became the target for that sort of vindictive, and it all went downhill from there. which is too bad, because no critics were bashing perry and journey during departure or evolution, in fact, i think they were pretty well respected back then. as i write this, i am more and more sure that it was the one-two punch of who's cryin now and open arms that dismantled journey's critical base and made them the poster children for 80's "corporate rock."

these are my observations only about the "cool" rock and roll establishment and why they may feel the way they do about inarguably the greatest vocal technician in rock and roll history.

for discussion's sake, why do most of you think Journey elicit such elitist opinions from the rock and roll establishment?

[jrnyman28]

I think the people who dislike/hate Perry feel that way because he took away the Journey that they love. Whether it is the change between Next and Infinity, or Departure and Escape, or ROR, or because he is no longer in Journey...Perry had something to do with the changes. And, like so many supporters attest to, Perry is the face of Journey (even now ) so the successes and the failures get attributed to him.

But then again, maybe this guy was just an Augeri-era supporter? OR he knows that many people there continue to support Journey? Nah, that couldn't be it, huh?

[cubby69]

I'm sorry I have to agree with this guy. Perry did ruin Journey and if you want to further than that, I'll say the combination of Perry/Cain and their obsessive need to write poppy ballady crap radio friendly bullshit songs is what really ruined Journey. I dont' care how many albums Escape sold, it was still the point at which Journey ceased being a rock band and sold their souls to the radio gods. If Rolie had never left Perry would never had the chance to make such a shit album like ROR.

Thank God this band is finally at least attempting to get in touch with their roots and playing whatever the hell they feel like playing, like they did when they started out.

[cudaclan]

If you notice on the media (TV, radio, etc), what strikes the most attention... controversy and sensationalism? Bad news travels fast, good news travels slow. It has been said 'you can't teach an old dog new tricks'. Some are fixated in remembering and dwelling in the past, they fall in the same path of being outdated. It is essential to know the past; it prevents us in creating ‘mistakes’ and reflects on accomplishments. I think his statement was based on this controversy mentality. If the media portrayed positive news (constantly) you would lose your core customers. Worse yet, you would have ignorance. Look at the global perspective, countries that censor news breed ignorance about other cultures. Comedians receive their greatest response by insulting others, but if you can't laugh at yourself, don't laugh at others. IMO, the media gives us half-truth and half distorted or incomplete lies. Mistakes were made, egos were involved, but the current line-up is much more of a group than in the past. Past ‘mistakes’ were noted and time has an effect on reconciliation (for some).

[Jeremey]

I think the people who dislike/hate Perry feel that way because he took away the Journey that they love. Whether it is the change between Next and Infinity, or Departure and Escape, or ROR, or because he is no longer in Journey...Perry had something to do with the changes. And, like so many supporters attest to, Perry is the face of Journey (even now ) so the successes and the failures get attributed to him.

But then again, maybe this guy was just an Augeri-era supporter? OR he knows that many people there continue to support Journey? Nah, that couldn't be it, huh?

just because someone thinks it's funny to say they think you should "beat steve perry" on stage doesn't mean that they are an augeri supporter. so no, i would have to heartily disagree that this was why he said that.


i think the intent of my original post was that steve perry always seems to symbolize what the rock and roll elite hate most about the 80's, corporate rock, and the commercial success they had. what i meant was more along the lines of "why do the critics hate journey so much," "why is steve perry the whipping boy for this, when it wasn't until the success of "open arms" that they really started getting critically destroyed."

[Rockindeano]

I disagree with Cubby on this one. AND support Perry here. Look, if he hadn't joined the band, they wouldn't have gotten popular enough to even be joked about. I sincerely think there is nothing wrong with a pop song, as long as it's good. Don't DStop Believin' IS still good..It stands the test of time....Same with WCN, Stone in Love, Escape, even OA..

Jon once said, "I think it comes from jealousy and envy" speaking of the phrase corporate rock given to Journey. Who cares? I would rather be a 70 million album selling band who gets some fun poked at them, then some angry, political band who has to naw Taco Bell nightly.

That employee at the HOB is a fuckin asshole. Even I never advocated "beating Steve Perry." I loved what Perry brought to the band was hits, notoreity and fame...I am thankful for that. I wish he wouldn't have changed the band AGAIN with that shit CD ROR..that's what started the real poppy crap...then to make a decent TBF album, he leaves...that's when I got pissed at him..

I would rather have a Journey that can make an Infinity, Evolution, Departure, AND an Escape, Frontiers, Arrival AND Generations..I like the diversity....

Look at U2 if you want to look at corporate rock..Those guys are complete sellouts...They just kiss Rolling Stones ass, and sing poilitical garbage and a lot of the time, it's directed at the US.....

[Fernando Ramirez]

I'm sorry I have to agree with this guy. Perry did ruin Journey and if you want to further than that, I'll say the combination of Perry/Cain and their obsessive need to write poppy ballady crap radio friendly bullshit songs is what really ruined Journey. I dont' care how many albums Escape sold, it was still the point at which Journey ceased being a rock band and sold their souls to the radio gods. If Rolie had never left Perry would never had the chance to make such a shit album like ROR.

FAITHFULLY and OPEN ARMS are classic songs... I don't know know and understand why people continually dump on them. So what if it's a poppy ballad... they are still great songs. I get chillbumps when I listen to them.

If you want something that rocks harder, then go find a metal band. Metal bands don't play melodic rock. Maybe I'm one of the few that likes the rock songs and the ballads the same.

And as far as Perry ruining Journey, what a laughable idea. I seriously doubt Journey would have gotten farther than a limited niche audience with the fusion-style music.

[Fernando Ramirez]

Look at U2 if you want to look at corporate rock..Those guys are complete sellouts...They just kiss Rolling Stones ass, and sing poilitical garbage and a lot of the time, it's directed at the US.....

I disagree with that assessment of U2. They have some fantastic music, and some classic songs. They are a great band, and they have great management. They have always been political, but I agree that Bono goes too far with it sometimes.... I don't want to hear that shit. But that doesn't detract from how great of a band they are.

[The_Noble_Cause]

And as far as Perry ruining Journey, what a laughable idea. I seriously doubt Journey would have gotten farther than a limited niche audience with the fusion-style music.

The band's musical style had already evolved beyond strictly jam-band fusion style prior to Perry.
Who knows to what musical heights with Fleishman the band could've truly soared?

[jrnyman28]

i think the intent of my original post was that steve perry always seems to symbolize what the rock and roll elite hate most about the 80's, corporate rock, and the commercial success they had. what i meant was more along the lines of "why do the critics hate journey so much," "why is steve perry the whipping boy for this, when it wasn't until the success of "open arms" that they really started getting critically destroyed."

I know, that is why I adressed that point first. I stand by the idea that people who bash Perry probably do so because they somehow feel wronged by Perry. His face/name is attached to blame as much as the credit.

[jrnyman28]

And as far as Perry ruining Journey, what a laughable idea. I seriously doubt Journey would have gotten farther than a limited niche audience with the fusion-style music.

It is not laughable if you are a fan from the beginning. Maybe you preferred the fusion-rock jam band. BUT, Journey was much more than that throughout Infinity, Evolution and Departure. Many feel this is Journey's best work. I agree. So, while Escape amybe far more popular and successful, it is easy to understand that Journey changed with the addition of Jon Cain. And the change can be considered by many as a ruination of the band they loved. If you came on board as a Journey fan with Escape or Frontiers, then of course it will be harder to understand. You will be more emotionally attached to those bodies of work than of the previous ones....

[jrnyman28]

I disagree with that assessment of U2. They have some fantastic music, and some classic songs. They are a great band, and they have great management.

True, but they are also very much like Aerosmith and KISS. They have become a completely commercial act (read 'sellout'). There management is great at finding ways to keep the band in "our" faces. But those ways have hurt U2's credibility as a rock band. And it is hard to find a 'great' song on the last 4 CDs...IMO.

They have always been political, but I agree that Bono goes too far with it sometimes.... I don't want to hear that shit. But that doesn't detract from how great of a band they are.

Again, you are right that the politics do not detract from the band. In fact, I don't believe Deano mentioned the politics specifically as an example. it is U2's commercialism that Deano was referring to. And I agree with him that U2 are a far better example of 'corporate rock' than Journey. Aerosmith and KISS are up there as well. Aerosmith has changed everything so they can stay relevant. They almost lost the band alltogether because 3 of the guys thought they had gone too far. And of course, there is nothing that KISS won't sell to make a buck. That includes their dignity...

[Abitaman]

Couple of things,
1) I know NC, and Rockd got there cds I sent, have you Red13 and NIG got yours yet?
and NIG, I may have sent you VU and main Event instead of VU and VH, if I did let me know and I'll send the VH.

2) Jeremy, I was listening to a Journey concert from Toyko in 1980 and they do I'm crying. Awesome!! Do Frontiers play that song? Thought your take of Good Morning Girl was good! Would like to hear take on Cryin. Any chance of coming to Biloxi, MS area or New Orleans?

Have a good one-ERIC

[Fernando Ramirez]

It is not laughable if you are a fan from the beginning.

It has historically been shown that fusion-rock bands didn't really sell all that well, and that style of music is limited to hardcore niche audiences. I consider those first albums before Perry fusion rock. Journey would have done respectably well there, but without Perry, they never would have gone to worldwide success, and to big arena tours. It's one thing to play to musicians, it's another to play to mainstream America.

Maybe you preferred the fusion-rock jam band. BUT, Journey was much more than that throughout Infinity, Evolution and Departure. Many feel this is Journey's best work. I agree. So, while Escape amybe far more popular and successful, it is easy to understand that Journey changed with the addition of Jon Cain. And the change can be considered by many as a ruination of the band they loved. If you came on board as a Journey fan with Escape or Frontiers, then of course it will be harder to understand. You will be more emotionally attached to those bodies of work than of the previous ones....

I came on board with CAPTURED, and ESCAPE was the first music release I ever bought with my own money when I was a teenager. I love that era, but I also dearly love INFINITY, EVOLUTION, and DEPARTURE. Those albums in my mind are what you could arguably call prototyes of early melodic rock music. So that should sum up how i feel about Perry's addition... he made Journey better... ballads and everything. He is arguably the best singer ever. I wouldn't necessarily want to have lunch with the guy, but I don't see how anybody can say he ruined Journey.

[Fernando Ramirez]

True, but they are also very much like Aerosmith and KISS. They have become a completely commercial act (read 'sellout'). There management is great at finding ways to keep the band in "our" faces. But those ways have hurt U2's credibility as a rock band. And it is hard to find a 'great' song on the last 4 CDs...IMO.

I don't know, I just don't see how U2 has sold out. Their music has been great... it's continued evolving, and it's not fluff crap like NSYNC or BACKSTREET BOYS or BRITNEY or those other piece of shit bands. So by that thinking, if JOURNEY has a breakout album with GENERATIONS and they start touring arenas again, and the world embraces Augeri as the rightful heir of Perry, does that mean they sold out? I think branding U2 as sellouts is only because they are big, they are in the public eye... because their management knows what their doing. I mean, music is supposed to be commercial... it's supposed to be listened to, it's supposed to be out there in the world. It great that mainstream radio plays U2, but it sucks that they don't play Journey.

[jrnyman28]

I don't know, I just don't see how U2 has sold out. Their music has been great... it's continued evolving, and it's not fluff crap like NSYNC or BACKSTREET BOYS or BRITNEY or those other piece of shit bands. So by that thinking, if JOURNEY has a breakout album with GENERATIONS and they start touring arenas again, and the world embraces Augeri as the rightful heir of Perry, does that mean they sold out? I think branding U2 as sellouts is only because they are big, they are in the public eye... because their management knows what their doing. I mean, music is supposed to be commercial... it's supposed to be listened to, it's supposed to be out there in the world. It great that mainstream radio plays U2, but it sucks that they don't play Journey.

I hear what youare saying. If "Generations" broke out, then I would not call it a sell out because Journey did it "their way". They recorded the music they wanted...it happened to hit a chord with the audience. However, IF JOURNEY were to pull a ridiculous publicity stunt or horendous promotional ploy that seemed unnatural, that I would call selling out. I am not picking on U2 because they are big. Obviously they are very smart, like Aerosmith, for finding a way to stay in the media eye. BUT, I do criticize HOW they chose to do that. I DO think the music has suffered for it. And THAT is a sellout!

[cubby69]

I'm sorry I have to agree with this guy. Perry did ruin Journey and if you want to further than that, I'll say the combination of Perry/Cain and their obsessive need to write poppy ballady crap radio friendly bullshit songs is what really ruined Journey. I dont' care how many albums Escape sold, it was still the point at which Journey ceased being a rock band and sold their souls to the radio gods. If Rolie had never left Perry would never had the chance to make such a shit album like ROR.

FAITHFULLY and OPEN ARMS are classic songs... I don't know know and understand why people continually dump on them. So what if it's a poppy ballad... they are still great songs. I get chillbumps when I listen to them.

If you want something that rocks harder, then go find a metal band. Metal bands don't play melodic rock. Maybe I'm one of the few that likes the rock songs and the ballads the same.

And as far as Perry ruining Journey, what a laughable idea. I seriously doubt Journey would have gotten farther than a limited niche audience with the fusion-style music.

Well I'll tell you what, I get chillbumps when I listen to 'Of A Lifetime' or 'Anyway' or 'In The Morning Day' or 'Spaceman'. So I guess I can have an opinion about Journey music also, can't I???

I do listen to metal, and I happen to like a lot of it, but I also love Journey and have since the beginning. And if I'm not mistaken here, we all do have a right to our opinions, do we not. Please straighten me on that if I'm mistaken. Just because you love the 'so called' classic Journey, does not mean that everyone does.

Have you ever listened to all three pre-Perry albums, thru and thru. Because if you haven't, you really should give it a try. And really listen, don't just scan 3 seconds of each song. There are some incredible sounds that have as much the Journey sound as any other song they ever produced. And calling these albums fusion rock is such misconception accepted by most who have never even took the time to listen. Steve Perry is not a god sent down here for us to worship. Yes, he is one the most talented vocalists to ever hold a microphone, but his continually, incessant need to change Journey from a solid rock band to a poppy hits band is not something that I can understand.

[Fernando Ramirez]

Well I'll tell you what, I get chillbumps when I listen to 'Of A Lifetime' or 'Anyway' or 'In The Morning Day' or 'Spaceman'. So I guess I can have an opinion about Journey music also, can't I???

I do listen to metal, and I happen to like a lot of it, but I also love Journey and have since the beginning. And if I'm not mistaken here, we all do have a right to our opinions, do we not. Please straighten me on that if I'm mistaken. Just because you love the 'so called' classic Journey, does not mean that everyone does.

No of course we're all entitled to our opinons. I just get tired of people always dumping on songs that I feel are classic. I mean, I really genuinely believe there's some great emotion and feeling in songs like OPEN ARMS and FAITHFULLY. For some reason, I just can't get tired of FAITHFULLY.

Have you ever listened to all three pre-Perry albums, thru and thru. Because if you haven't, you really should give it a try. And really listen, don't just scan 3 seconds of each song. There are some incredible sounds that have as much the Journey sound as any other song they ever produced. And calling these albums fusion rock is such misconception accepted by most who have never even took the time to listen. Steve Perry is not a god sent down here for us to worship. Yes, he is one the most talented vocalists to ever hold a microphone, but his continually, incessant need to change Journey from a solid rock band to a poppy hits band is not something that I can understand.

Okay, I'll be honest and say that I've never heard the first three albums. You sound like you really love them, and I respect that. So I'll open my mind to it and I'll actually go out and buy one of them. Because of what you're saying. Which one would you recommend me getting first? If I like it, then I'll get the other two.

[Red13JoePa]

Er, Fernado Ramirez, might I be so bold as to enquire if you have the greatest boxset ever assembled, Time3 If not start with that. Got a great sampling of the first 3 albums on disc one.....Only one I don't have right now is Next, hafta get around to grabbing that soon. It's got Hustler. What's witht the lyrics Jon was embarassed to sing?

PS: Hey, Eric Abita. Yep, got Albany Saturday. Thank you. State Of Grace is excellent on that one and the opportunity to hear the current lineup do Where Were You is priceless. SOmebody with a woking burner please get J28 Biloxi. Gotta be one of the top5 available JRNY boots.

[cubby69]

Have you ever listened to all three pre-Perry albums, thru and thru. Because if you haven't, you really should give it a try. And really listen, don't just scan 3 seconds of each song. There are some incredible sounds that have as much the Journey sound as any other song they ever produced. And calling these albums fusion rock is such misconception accepted by most who have never even took the time to listen. Steve Perry is not a god sent down here for us to worship. Yes, he is one the most talented vocalists to ever hold a microphone, but his continually, incessant need to change Journey from a solid rock band to a poppy hits band is not something that I can understand.

Okay, I'll be honest and say that I've never heard the first three albums. You sound like you really love them, and I respect that. So I'll open my mind to it and I'll actually go out and buy one of them. Because of what you're saying. Which one would you recommend me getting first? If I like it, then I'll get the other two.[/quote]

Well thank you for responding, and of course, you are correct, you have a right to feel close to any Journey song you chose. I happen to like Faithfully actually, I just think that Journey is so much more than a couple of poppy ballads and irritates me when someone calls those songs, Journey masterpieces.... .....lol...

I appreciate your honesty in admitting to never listening to the first three. And Joe is right, you might want to start with Time 3 and listen to the entire first disc. Great sampling of the early sounds of Journey before and just after they hired Perry.

But if I were to recommend one of the first three to start out with, I'd tell to get 'Look Into The Future, its my personal favorite of the three. There are some incredible Journey sounding like songs mixed in the some of the harder songs. In particular, the title track is amazing as well as 'Anyway', which I consider one of Journeys top five songs of their career. Let me know what you think.

[Fernando Ramirez]

I appreciate your honesty in admitting to never listening to the first three. And Joe is right, you might want to start with Time 3 and listen to the entire first disc. Great sampling of the early sounds of Journey before and just after they hired Perry.

But if I were to recommend one of the first three to start out with, I'd tell to get 'Look Into The Future, its my personal favorite of the three. There are some incredible Journey sounding like songs mixed in the some of the harder songs. In particular, the title track is amazing as well as 'Anyway', which I consider one of Journeys top five songs of their career. Let me know what you think.

I've seen the TIME3 box, and I've never picked it up. Never thought it had much to offer me, since I had every CD except for the first three. I'd rather go right into one of the albums, since I like to get the overall vibe of the individual sessions. Okay, LOOK INTO THE FUTURE it will be... I'll let you know what happens! Thanks!

[Fernando Ramirez]

Well thank you for responding, and of course, you are correct, you have a right to feel close to any Journey song you chose. I happen to like Faithfully actually, I just think that Journey is so much more than a couple of poppy ballads and irritates me when someone calls those songs, Journey masterpieces.... .....lol...

But they are!!! They are masterpieces in their own right! I mean, I can put FAITHFULLY on one hand and say... yep, that's a masterpiece. I can do the same for STAIRWAY TO HEAVEN, LAYLA, FREEBIRD, HOTEL CALIFORNIA, BOHEMIAN RHAPSODY... these are all songs that have maximum emotional impact for me and many others around the world. They are songs that say something important and that have resonated.

But, I wouldn't ever call them JOURNEY MASTERPIECES... no one song can define the band. Journey is a summation of all of it's music... whether good, bad, ballad, rocker, fusion, instrumental ... and you just can't pick one song and say... this sums up Journey. But they have some serious diamonds in there... don't they?

[Abitaman]

Well thank you for responding, and of course, you are correct, you have a right to feel close to any Journey song you chose. I happen to like Faithfully actually, I just think that Journey is so much more than a couple of poppy ballads and irritates me when someone calls those songs, Journey masterpieces.... .....lol...

But, I wouldn't ever call them JOURNEY MASTERPIECES... no one song can define the band. Journey is a summation of all of it's music... whether good, bad, ballad, rocker, fusion, instrumental ... and you just can't pick one song and say... this sums up Journey. But they have some serious diamonds in there... don't they?

Yes they do, good from ever era-ERIC

[Greg]

I have to say, regardless if Perry had ever joined the band or not, Journey would have changed it's sound of music to have a chance at corporate success in the 80's. Would it have worked as well, I don't know. Jefferson Airplane felt the need the need to change into a "corporate rock band" and manged to be very successful at such a change. Kansas had to scale their prog sound back and install a more "poppy" sound to try to grab some radio airplay.

The band members have to make a living, and sometimes they have to put out tracks that are radio friendly to earn a living.

[sngrchk04]

"You'd probably get a bigger crowd if you advertised that you were going to beat Steve Perry on stage!" and he laughed, like this was a real funny joke.

What the hell!?!?

Do people really hate steve perry so much?

i think it comes from the Rolling Stone and Rock and Roll Hall of Fame mentality that thinks Steve Perry ruined Journey...the whole santana meets jerry garcia vibe that got mashed and molded and packaged and sold when steve perry joined the band.

I think Mr. Rasta is suffering from a case of "selective amnesia"

Here's my backup to support that statement:

From the BTM: (paraphrased):

Gregg Rolie: "Neal and I both looked at each other and said, "Nah"....I mean, no WAY, man - this guys a CROONER - we want someone who can SCREAM".

Herbie Herbert: "They FLAT-OUT didn't want to KNOW from this guy, and I FLAT-OUT told them:

"Steve Perry's gonna be in this band. Get used to it"

So, following this guys, uh, "train of thought" (such as it is ) he should've said the name "Herbie Herbert" in his statement.

Seriously, that whole exchange has bothered me since it aired: If the ENTIRE BAND is telling you "NO", then "WHAT THE HELL?!" Indeed!

[jrnyman28]

Face it...Herbie had 'the vision'. He KNEW Perry would do great things for the band and he was right. Neal accepted it, I am not sure Gregg ever really did (but then Gregg was older and already a "veteran").

[Rockindeano]

[quote="sngrchk04"]
Herbie Herbert: [b]"They FLAT-OUT didn't want to KNOW from this guy, and I FLAT-OUT told them:[color=red]

All good, but it was, :flatout didn't want a NOTE from this guy."

[jrnyman28]

I thought Nora had it right...

[Rockindeano]

I thought Nora had it right...

I went and watched it 5-6 times..I originally rhought it to be KNOW, but my decision goes for NOTE.

It fits..

[Jeremey]

i think rock snobs really dislike journey and steve perry because of the success of the band, and perry puts a face on that. but no one can reconcile their dislike of the band based on their success with the utter magic of the songs that they created. and sure, "of a lifetime" or "mystery mountain" may really float your boat (or "City of Angels" or "Im Cryin" for that matter), but it was the alignment of the moon and the stars that brought songs like "DSB" and "Faithfully" and "Separate Ways," and those are the songs the band will always be known for, and the songs that make them either rock icons or cheeseball sellouts, depending on your point of view. i guess if the ramones or talking heads are your favorite bands, you tend to take the cheeseball point of view.