My Generations thoughts

[Monker]

Ok, I own and have listened to Generations a few times So, my thoughts on Generations:

The negatives:

The recording quality absolutely sucks. I have to strain to understand Augeri on "Faith In the Heartland"...90% of the lyrics on that song are so distorted that I have absolutely NO CLUE what he's singing. I don't think this has to do with "too much high end and not enough bass"...If you listen to some songs there is a clear hiss on his vocals, especialy on "s" sounds. I simply feel it is a poorly recorded vocal track...It's like an analog recording dubbed multiple times before it was digitaly transfered and mixed into the rest of the sound.

Jonathan should not have sang "Every Generation". His voice is simply not suited for that type of song. It seems like a good song but the vocal performance detracts from it. Deen or Augeri should have sang it.

"She's Gone Crazy" is a neat little song - but it is OUT OF PLACE on this album. It would be an interesting ZZ Top song, or Sy Klopps song, or a Van Halen song with DLR on vocals. But, it is VERY out of place on Generations. If Generations was full of LTS, "Walks Like a Lady" type songs, then maybe it would find a place.

"In Self Defense" - Well, what can I say, it's been done before and there isn't much of a difference between this and Schon & Hammer. I don't know why it's here other then to fill up a track.

If they were trying to 'be like Styx' with the multiple vocals, they failed...and they failed badly. Styx albums are a lot more cohesive...a JY song may sound different vocaly but the song itself flows as part of the album. It is not just there for JY to have a vocal (well, except for "Homewrecker" on Edge, but that's another story). I do not feel that ANY of the vocals outside of Augeri and Deen were there for the album, but just there to give somebody else a vocal.

The positives:

I think the album is very well written musicaly. From what I can understand of the lyrics, they seem up to par with anything Journey has ever released. Neal sounds awesome on all of the songs. Deen really kicks on drums too...much more then on Arrival or Red 13. If the recording quality was better, I think Augeri would blow people away on this album...and I am certain some are blown away anyways. He really just lets it all go. Deen's song is OK, but he sounds like the FTLOSM version of Perry with the rough vocals and no range. Also, you can feel that Journey just decided to let it all hang out and rock - a very good idea. This is what a follow up to Frontiers SHOULD have sounded like.

Overall, I think it's a great album but the recording quality knocks it down a few notches for me. If I was just a casual fan who received this at a concert I wouldn't even consider buying it when it was released because of the recording quality. I don't think it would have helped to just make Augeri's voice louder...it would just make the annoying "ssss" sound louder and more annoying. It's already almost as annoying as Perry's deep breathing exercises on FTLOSM.

BTW, I never complained about the sound on Arrival and Red 13...as many others did. It amazes me that they took such a step down for Generations.

I don't think I'd rank it among Journey's best albums ever. It's below : Escape, Frontiers, Infinity and Arrival...But above Evolution and maybe equal to Departure.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Ok, I own and have listened to Generations a few times So, my thoughts on Generations:

The negatives:

The recording quality absolutely sucks. I have to strain to understand Augeri on "Faith In the Heartland"...90% of the lyrics on that song are so distorted that I have absolutely NO CLUE what he's singing. I don't think this has to do with "too much high end and not enough bass"...If you listen to some songs there is a clear hiss on his vocals, especialy on "s" sounds. I simply feel it is a poorly recorded vocal track...It's like an analog recording dubbed multiple times before it was digitaly transfered and mixed into the rest of the sound.

Jonathan should not have sang "Every Generation". His voice is simply not suited for that type of song. It seems like a good song but the vocal performance detracts from it. Deen or Augeri should have sang it.

"She's Gone Crazy" is a neat little song - but it is OUT OF PLACE on this album. It would be an interesting ZZ Top song, or Sy Klopps song, or a Van Halen song with DLR on vocals. But, it is VERY out of place on Generations. If Generations was full of LTS, "Walks Like a Lady" type songs, then maybe it would find a place.

"In Self Defense" - Well, what can I say, it's been done before and there isn't much of a difference between this and Schon & Hammer. I don't know why it's here other then to fill up a track.

If they were trying to 'be like Styx' with the multiple vocals, they failed...and they failed badly. Styx albums are a lot more cohesive...a JY song may sound different vocaly but the song itself flows as part of the album. It is not just there for JY to have a vocal (well, except for "Homewrecker" on Edge, but that's another story). I do not feel that ANY of the vocals outside of Augeri and Deen were there for the album, but just there to give somebody else a vocal.

The positives:

I think the album is very well written musicaly. From what I can understand of the lyrics, they seem up to par with anything Journey has ever released. Neal sounds awesome on all of the songs. Deen really kicks on drums too...much more then on Arrival or Red 13. If the recording quality was better, I think Augeri would blow people away on this album...and I am certain some are blown away anyways. He really just lets it all go. Deen's song is OK, but he sounds like the FTLOSM version of Perry with the rough vocals and no range. Also, you can feel that Journey just decided to let it all hang out and rock - a very good idea. This is what a follow up to Frontiers SHOULD have sounded like.

Overall, I think it's a great album but the recording quality knocks it down a few notches for me. If I was just a casual fan who received this at a concert I wouldn't even consider buying it when it was released because of the recording quality. I don't think it would have helped to just make Augeri's voice louder...it would just make the annoying "ssss" sound louder and more annoying. It's already almost as annoying as Perry's deep breathing exercises on FTLOSM.

BTW, I never complained about the sound on Arrival and Red 13...as many others did. It amazes me that they took such a step down for Generations.

I don't think I'd rank it among Journey's best albums ever. It's below : Escape, Frontiers, Infinity and Arrival...But above Evolution and maybe equal to Departure.

I've always found Arrival to sound muddy. I find this cd to be way more clarion and clean sounding. Nonetheless, thanks for the review. Here's mine:

This latest Journey album is the modern day equivalent of "Esc4P3" for me. And by that I mean there is a ton of rockers on here. "Generations" might finally answer the age old question, "can a rock album have one too many rockers on it?" In the case of Journey's "Generations" I am afraid (for me) the answer is quite possibly yes. Songs like "Better Together" and "Out of Harm's Way" are more hard edged than what most have come to expect from Journey, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, just as long as they are countered with a good mixture of more melodic keyboard driven rock (see "Place in Your Heart" or the perfected archetype "Ask the Lonely"). Then again, maybe the band's sound is just evolving for the times and 80's fans are about to get left behind in the dust. After all, the keyboard driven rockers are usually the ones that sound the most dated.

I thought "Frontiers" had the balance perfectly (my fav. JRNY LP) , but this album (most notably on the second half) features a preponderance of rock songs that overshadow what more memorably melodic pieces there are. Perhaps, Journey's last two albums spoiled me. Those albums each had 15 or so tracks, so granted, there was much bigger room for error permitted.
But with Generations' compacted 12 tracks, each song really needed to shine and sadly, it misses the mark by a slight hair.

The biggest letdown of the album for me is easily the Augeri-penned, "Believe".
"Believe" is vile in it's simplistic redundancy (its not even a song, as far as I'm concerned, more just a keyboard part that repeats mind-numbingly without end). Andrew claims "Believe" needs a hook or a chorus. However, I see it the other way around. It's a chorus in dire need of a song! The song is just one big hook on repeat; stating again and again...
"I believe in you believe in me"... ad infinitum!

I really was hoping this album would solidify Augeri's writing talent, sadly, it leaves it all the more suspect.
HOWEVER, his collaborations with Jon and Neal have produced real musical gems on this album, so that is good. More collaborative Cain/Schon/Augeri efforts like "Faith in the Heartland"and "Better Together" from here on out. The Augeri/Schon effort "Beyond the Clouds" is similarly phenomenal!

Other than that, I don't agree with how Andrew overlooks the merits of the one song, "Better Together". I think it epitomizes the new sound this incarnation of the group is going in (bluesy-rock) and I really like it alot.

This album for me personally needed one or two more hook-ladden melodic pieces interspered in between the harder-edged rockers.
Judging from the provided sample, the euro bonus track, "It's never too late", probably would've done just the trick.

All in all I like every song (and actually LOVE quite a few) with the exception of "Believe" which I find to be repetitous, seemingly unfinished lyrically, and insultingly vapid.

Just wish this album was a smidgeon more "Frontiers" and a little less "Esc4p3".

That's it for me.

B+

[amaron]

Ok, I own and have listened to Generations a few times So, my thoughts on Generations:

The negatives:

The recording quality absolutely sucks. I have to strain to understand Augeri on "Faith In the Heartland"...90% of the lyrics on that song are so distorted that I have absolutely NO CLUE what he's singing. I don't think this has to do with "too much high end and not enough bass"...If you listen to some songs there is a clear hiss on his vocals, especialy on "s" sounds. I simply feel it is a poorly recorded vocal track...It's like an analog recording dubbed multiple times before it was digitaly transfered and mixed into the rest of the sound.

Jonathan should not have sang "Every Generation". His voice is simply not suited for that type of song. It seems like a good song but the vocal performance detracts from it. Deen or Augeri should have sang it.

"She's Gone Crazy" is a neat little song - but it is OUT OF PLACE on this album. It would be an interesting ZZ Top song, or Sy Klopps song, or a Van Halen song with DLR on vocals. But, it is VERY out of place on Generations. If Generations was full of LTS, "Walks Like a Lady" type songs, then maybe it would find a place.

"In Self Defense" - Well, what can I say, it's been done before and there isn't much of a difference between this and Schon & Hammer. I don't know why it's here other then to fill up a track.

If they were trying to 'be like Styx' with the multiple vocals, they failed...and they failed badly. Styx albums are a lot more cohesive...a JY song may sound different vocaly but the song itself flows as part of the album. It is not just there for JY to have a vocal (well, except for "Homewrecker" on Edge, but that's another story). I do not feel that ANY of the vocals outside of Augeri and Deen were there for the album, but just there to give somebody else a vocal.

The positives:

I think the album is very well written musicaly. From what I can understand of the lyrics, they seem up to par with anything Journey has ever released. Neal sounds awesome on all of the songs. Deen really kicks on drums too...much more then on Arrival or Red 13. If the recording quality was better, I think Augeri would blow people away on this album...and I am certain some are blown away anyways. He really just lets it all go. Deen's song is OK, but he sounds like the FTLOSM version of Perry with the rough vocals and no range. Also, you can feel that Journey just decided to let it all hang out and rock - a very good idea. This is what a follow up to Frontiers SHOULD have sounded like.

Overall, I think it's a great album but the recording quality knocks it down a few notches for me. If I was just a casual fan who received this at a concert I wouldn't even consider buying it when it was released because of the recording quality. I don't think it would have helped to just make Augeri's voice louder...it would just make the annoying "ssss" sound louder and more annoying. It's already almost as annoying as Perry's deep breathing exercises on FTLOSM.

BTW, I never complained about the sound on Arrival and Red 13...as many others did. It amazes me that they took such a step down for Generations.

I don't think I'd rank it among Journey's best albums ever. It's below : Escape, Frontiers, Infinity and Arrival...But above Evolution and maybe equal to Departure.

I actually like JC on Every Generation the more I listened to it. The one song that really hit me was Better Life. There's something haunting about that song, from Deen's vocals to Neal's guitar in the background. That being said, I'm not a big fan of Butterfly and Knowing that You Love Me for some reason. They aren't bad by any means, they just haven't grabbed me.

As far as production goes, I feel that this CD is 10x better than Red 13. The two copies of R13 I have sound really muddled and like the volume needed to be cranked a bit.

I'd have to put this behind Escape and Frontiers, but ahead of Arrival, Evolution, et al. It's just too bad they'll never be able to find their niche on radio, because I think it would go over well if they could get played.

[NealIsGod]

Most posts I have read praise Gens for having MUCH better sound then Arrival. Maybe you got a bad copy?

[jrnyman28]

The recording quality absolutely sucks.

Great? No. But I don't think I would say "sucks" either. I enjoy the energy the mix creates for me.

I have to strain to understand Augeri on "Faith In the Heartland"...90% of the lyrics on that song are so distorted that I have absolutely NO CLUE what he's singing.

Ya know, it seems like this is a pattern on the recordings. Steve's vocals are more up front on this one, but I agree that the words are not clear. Whether that is a recording issue or something to do with the way Steve sings, I have yet to determine. But it does not seem like that LIVE. Then again, most of those songs, we all know the lyrics already. You can always 'hear' better when you know the material.

I don't think this has to do with "too much high end and not enough bass"...If you listen to some songs there is a clear hiss on his vocals, especialy on "s" sounds. I simply feel it is a poorly recorded vocal track...It's like an analog recording dubbed multiple times before it was digitaly transfered and mixed into the rest of the sound.

Thought to ponder.
That reminds me of how my first E5C4P3 album sounded after a lot of turns...Perry's 'S's were really 'lispy'.

Jonathan should not have sang "Every Generation". His voice is simply not suited for that type of song. It seems like a good song but the vocal performance detracts from it. Deen or Augeri should have sang it.

I agree that Steve could have easily sung this song. But I do not mind Jon singing it.

"She's Gone Crazy" is a neat little song - but it is OUT OF PLACE on this album. It would be an interesting ZZ Top song, or Sy Klopps song, or a Van Halen song with DLR on vocals. But, it is VERY out of place on Generations. If Generations was full of LTS, "Walks Like a Lady" type songs, then maybe it would find a place.

I can agree with the "out of place", but the more you listen to Generations the less out of place it feels. You just get used to it being there. And it IS a good song...

"In Self Defense" - Well, what can I say, it's been done before and there isn't much of a difference between this and Schon & Hammer. I don't know why it's here other then to fill up a track.

I agree, but it is there because it SMOKES! Like TNC has mentioned, if ISD were replaced with Never Too Late, maybe the CD would feel stronger...

I do not feel that ANY of the vocals outside of Augeri and Deen were there for the album, but just there to give somebody else a vocal.

I agree completely that the songs were sung by different singers just to be sung by different singers. But Ross' works, Jon's is fine (IMO), Deen sounds good (but if he can sing it, so can Steve) and NEal's is just Neal's. I think the material they sang, fits their voices fine. And I believe the music still fits (like you said Styx' does).

The positives:

I think the album is very well written musicaly. From what I can understand of the lyrics, they seem up to par with anything Journey has ever released. Neal sounds awesome on all of the songs. Deen really kicks on drums too...much more then on Arrival or Red 13.

Absolutely agree! But Deen's drum sound could have been a little 'bigger' (as Neal hinted at).

If the recording quality was better, I think Augeri would blow people away on this album...and I am certain some are blown away anyways. He really just lets it all go.

That is why I am concerned that his recorded vocals continue to be an issue. He HAS the voice to do this! I wish everyone could HEAR THAT. But his vocals ARE an improvement over the previous recordings IMO.

Deen's song is OK, but he sounds like the FTLOSM version of Perry with the rough vocals and no range.

I disagree. His voice sounded good and the vocal pattern is cool. I do think he uses that 'rasp' to sound more like Perry though...probably intentional.

Also, you can feel that Journey just decided to let it all hang out and rock - a very good idea. This is what a follow up to Frontiers SHOULD have sounded like.

This is the BEST point in the whole post!! Journey rocks....like they SHOULD!

BTW, I never complained about the sound on Arrival and Red 13...as many others did. It amazes me that they took such a step down for Generations.

It amazes me that you think this is a step down! Arrival had some polish (maybe a little too much) but Steve's vocals were not 'out there' like they should be. Red 13 was very different, and therefore 'uncomfortable', production-wise. But once you get used to it, that EP is stellar! But I still think the mix on this CD is better as a whole that either of those.

I don't think I'd rank it among Journey's best albums ever. It's below : Escape, Frontiers, Infinity and Arrival...But above Evolution and maybe equal to Departure.

Songwise, it is up there with E5C4P3 and Frontiers IMO. Production-wise it is much lower. But overall, I still rank this one in my top 5 and maybe my top 3...

Nice, balance, review Monker.

[NoMoreTails]

[quote="The_Noble_Cause"]
"This album for me personally needed one or two more hook-ladden melodic pieces interspered in between the harder-edged rockers.
Judging from the provided sample, the euro bonus track, "It's never too late", probably would've done just the trick. [quote]

I think the melodic piece that is missing is Neal's music which ended up on Jeff Scott Soto's Believe In Me. Sort of in the vein of Be Good To Yourself guitar-wise to my ears but better (though BGTY is great live).
It would have of course had different lyrics, etc and Jon's keys added but the melodic hooks are there.
But I think as it is I already prefer Believe In Me to It's Never Too Late.

[The_Noble_Cause]

I think the melodic piece that is missing is Neal's music which ended up on Jeff Scott Soto's Believe In Me. Sort of in the vein of Be Good To Yourself guitar-wise to my ears but better (though BGTY is great live).
It would have of course had different lyrics, etc and Jon's keys added but the melodic hooks are there.
But I think as it is I already prefer Believe In Me to It's Never Too Late.

Yeah, I never quite understood why "Believe In Me" didn't go to Journey. Neal said it was written prior to SS. That the music was shown first to Sammy Hagar who found it too poppy.
It sounds like a Journey song to me.
That was a dumb move on Neal's part.

[NoMoreTails]

Yeah, I never quite understood why "Believe In Me" didn't go to Journey. Neal said it was written prior to SS. That the music was shown first to Sammy Hagar who found it too poppy.
It sounds like a Journey song to me.
That was a dumb move on Neal's part.

Yes, it definitely has the Journey vibe. The only reason I see is that at that point, maybe a new Journey album wasn't in the plans... in light of Andrew's interview w/Steve. The song was given to Jeff...when....early 2004?

[Eric]

1) Wait till you hear "It's Never too Late" - best song on the album IMO.

2) I agree that Every Generation should have had Augeri or Castronovo on lead vocals. The more I hear it, the more I like it, but wish it were not Cain singing.

3) Self Defense is filler-like IMO - except for the new beginning (from Filmore Boogie).

4) Gone Crazy is garbage too, not even out of place, just garbage IMO.

5) Several tracks really have a lot to them, and the album really grows on you. However, an average Joe is not going let it grow on them.

6) I found that Arrival sounded muddy, and the sound on Generations to be very hissy like you described. It sounds better on headphones than on a good system, which is very puzzling? To be honest, ALL of my Journey CD's have poorer audio quality than most others in my collection. The early albums through Escape are very faded/light sounding. Frontiers is okay, Raised on Radio/TBF/Arrival are overpolished and Red13 and Generations not polished enough. I am hard to please I have to admit.

[jrnyjetster]

I think Every Generation is a great song and I like Jon Cain's vocals.

I can not get into Gone Crazy at all.

In Self-Defense...well..cool song LIVE!

As far as people complaining about a muffled recording...could it be that most of us are over 40 and going deaf from attending too many rock concerts over the years?

[The_Noble_Cause]

I think you can make the case that Every Generation would seem more at home on a J. Cain solo work, however, I really can't envision Steve, Deen or anyone else for that matter singing it.

I can't agree that Gone Crazy is garbage. For me, it's one of the catchier songs on the entire album. Say what you will about Ross's *ahem* vocal talents, its still a kick-ass smokin little ditty.

[ForceInfinity]

Good thread here....

Personally the songs I have a hard time getting into are Believe and Out of Harms Way.

Every Generation is one of my favorites and I can't picture anyone singing it but Cain either. Faith in the Heartland though is one of the best songs I've heard Journey churn out in some time

My favorites are quite possibly the first 5. I've been toying with resequencing the album some, and wondering how much better it'd sound if you fitted "I Can Breathe" or any other Red 13 song into Generations. I just know when I gutted believe and slotted "Never Too Late" in its place, the album flowed alot better for me

[The_Noble_Cause]

Good thread here....

Personally the songs I have a hard time getting into are Believe and Out of Harms Way.

Every Generation is one of my favorites and I can't picture anyone singing it but Cain either. Faith in the Heartland though is one of the best songs I've heard Journey churn out in some time

My favorites are quite possibly the first 5. I've been toying with resequencing the album some, and wondering how much better it'd sound if you fitted "I Can Breathe" or any other Red 13 song into Generations. I just know when I gutted believe and slotted "Never Too Late" in its place, the album flowed alot better for me

Yeah, they def. needed to insert "Never Too Late" somewhere in there. The first 5 tracks are the most consecutively melodic ones on the album. While the rest of the disk offers some melodic highlights (Knowing that You Love Me, Beyond the Clouds) the non-stop harder edged block of "Harm's Way" "Self Defense" & "Better Together" begins to get semi-grating. Good songs on there own, but together they seem somewhat indistinguishable. If the aforementioned harder rockers had been spliced with a trademark melodic Journey anthem such as "Never Too Late" the flow would be much better.

Although I enjoy Augeri's "Shine" and "Tall Stories" a great deal, I loathe "Believe". Augeri said he wrote many songs that were slated to go on this album initially (until Jon pitched in and his songs took priority). Augeri says he has so many songs left over (which were to go on Generations) that he will now put them on a solo record.
Out of all the material he wrote, I find it hard to believe that "believe" or "butterfly" were the cream of the crop.

[AOR rules]

The first 5 tracks are the most consecutively melodic ones on the album. While the rest of the disk offers some melodic highlights (Knowing that You Love Me, Beyond the Clouds) the non-stop harder edged block of "Harm's Way" "Self Defense" & "Better Together" begins to get semi-grating. Good songs on there own, but together they seem somewhat indistinguishable. If the aforementioned harder rockers had been spliced with a trademark melodic Journey anthem such as "Never Too Late" the flow would be much better.

This is the problem with me too. Every time I´m listening “Generations” it starts with “Hell yeah, this is great”-type of vibe but when 5 first tracks have passed excitement gets lower and lower. But maybe we have too high expectations for Journey cd. I mean, how many times you can nowadays hear new album which is exciting from start to finish? I would say it´s extremely rare. Back in good old times in eighties it happened much more regularly.

[jrnyman28]

[But maybe we have too high expectations for Journey cd.

I don't think they are TOO high. We have grown accustom to a certain level. I truly love Generations, but it is obvious that the material 'post-Perry' is not at the same level. Most of it is NOT due to Perry's abscence though. IMO

I mean, how many times you can nowadays hear new album which is exciting from start to finish? I would say it´s extremely rare. Back in good old times in eighties it happened much more regularly.

That is NO excuse...

[NoMoreTails]

[But maybe we have too high expectations for Journey cd.

I don't think they are TOO high. We have grown accustom to a certain level. I truly love Generations, but it is obvious that the material 'post-Perry' is not at the same level. Most of it is NOT due to Perry's abscence though. IMO

Do you intend for "post Perry" to imply that ROR and TBF contained better material than the three Augeri fronted albums? I think you meant as compared up through Frontiers but just wanted clarification.

What about if Arrival and Generations were cut down to ten song albums, how would they compare to Escape and Frontiers?

[NealIsGod]

[But maybe we have too high expectations for Journey cd.

I don't think they are TOO high. We have grown accustom to a certain level. I truly love Generations, but it is obvious that the material 'post-Perry' is not at the same level. Most of it is NOT due to Perry's abscence though. IMO

Do you intend for "post Perry" to imply that ROR and TBF contained better material than the three Augeri fronted albums? I think you meant as compared up through Frontiers but just wanted clarification.

What about if Arrival and Generations were cut down to ten song albums, how would they compare to Escape and Frontiers?

I think Gens would compare, but not Arrival. I only like 4 or 5 from that disc. I like all of Gens, but if you whittled Believe and Butterfly off of it, and kept It's Never Too Late, you have a lean, mean CD.

[NoMoreTails]

I think Gens would compare, but not Arrival. I only like 4 or 5 from that disc. I like all of Gens, but if you whittled Believe and Butterfly off of it, and kept It's Never Too Late, you have a lean, mean CD.

I think you could take 20 songs from Arrival, Red13, and Generations and you'd have the 2 best albums they've ever done. There are many that I feel are musically more impressive and lyrically more profound than anything they've done.

[amaron]

I think Gens would compare, but not Arrival. I only like 4 or 5 from that disc. I like all of Gens, but if you whittled Believe and Butterfly off of it, and kept It's Never Too Late, you have a lean, mean CD.

I think you could take 20 songs from Arrival, Red13, and Generations and you'd have the 2 best albums they've ever done. There are many that I feel are musically more impressive and lyrically more profound than anything they've done.

Higher Place
All the Way
Signs of Life
All the Things
Loved By You
Livin' to Do
World Gone Wild
I Got a Reason
With Your Love
Lifetime of Dreams
I'm Not That Way
Nothin' Comes Close
To Be Alive Again
Kiss Me Softly
We Will Meet Again

State of Grace
The Time
Walking Away From the Edge
I Can Breathe

Faith In The Heartland
The Place In Your Heart
A Better Life
Every Generation
Butterfly (She Flies Alone)
Believe
Knowing That You Love Me
Out of Harms Way
In Self-Defense
Better Together
Gone Crazy
Beyond The Clouds
Never Too Late
Pride of the Family

Have at it. I'm interested to see/hear what people come up with.

[jrnyman28]

Do you intend for "post Perry" to imply that ROR and TBF contained better material than the three Augeri fronted albums? I think you meant as compared up through Frontiers but just wanted clarification.

What about if Arrival and Generations were cut down to ten song albums, how would they compare to Escape and Frontiers?

NOT THE SONGS THEMSELVES. I THINK THE SONGS ARE JUST AS GOOD AS THE PERRY-ERA MATERIAL. EVEN BACK THEN, THERE WERE SONGS THAT YOU COULD THROWAWAY AT FIRST. (sorry, forgot the caps lock) But the mix or production, some of the artwork, definately the amount of material, are all lower than the level of expectation set by the Perry years.

[jrnyman28]

What about if Arrival and Generations were cut down to ten song albums, how would they compare to Escape and Frontiers?

I DEFINATELY think Arrival could have lost 4 songs (all ballads). I am cool with Generations, but if you add INTL in place of one song, it could be better.

[NealIsGod]

Here ya go.

The Time
Higher Place
The Place In Your Heart
Loved By You
World Gone Wild
A Better Life
Faith In The Heartland
In Self-Defense
Never Too Late
Knowing That You Love Me
Out of Harms Way
Beyond The Clouds
Livin' to Do
To Be Alive Again

I included 14 songs. If only the technology existed to create a CD like this ourselves... *sigh*

[amaron]

Here ya go.

The Time
Higher Place
The Place In Your Heart
Loved By You
World Gone Wild
A Better Life
Faith In The Heartland
In Self-Defense
Never Too Late
Knowing That You Love Me
Out of Harms Way
Beyond The Clouds
Livin' to Do
To Be Alive Again

I included 14 songs. If only the technology existed to create a CD like this ourselves... *sigh*

It does.

[OpeningAct]

Eric wrote: Gone Crazy is garbage too, not even out of place, just garbage IMO.

I hate to say it, but Ross sounded HORRIBLE singing Gone Crazy and Walks Like A Lady in concert...terrible.

[Monker]

But the mix or production, some of the artwork, definately the amount of material, are all lower than the level of expectation set by the Perry years.

I definitely disagree with the above. The artwork on Frontiers and ROR isn't too special. I was not impressed with Frontiers production since Perry vocals seemed odd to me...the same with Dream After Dream...even after it was released on CD. There was an interview somewhere where Ross comments that Escape was the first album where they mixed the bass correctly...and I agree since you really can't feel it on Infinity/Evolution/Departure. And, the drums on Infinity? Come on, talk about a bad drum sound! The 'amount of material' on Departure is TOO SHORT, espcially given that a couple of the songs themselves are VERY short. The vocals are over-produced on Infinity and Evolution, unless you like that RTB sorta thing.

I never thought Arrival or Red13 were any better or worse mixed/produced then the earlier albums. The mix/production on Generations isn't ''bad", it's Augeri's vocal track itself that isn't good quality. That hissy stuff isn't on the other guy's vocals. Perhaps they should have filtered it somehow, don't know....It sucks to hear, "SSHHHHe flieSSS alone", and SSSStuff.

BTW, Perry DOES have a lisp. It's even there in some of the live stuff.

[Rockindeano]

Jesus..Now we are breaking down artwork? ARTWORK. Fucking artwork. I thought we were talking about 5 guys making music? Now we have some bitching about ...artwork. okay.

By the way Picasso-(Monker)..What is so wrong with ROR's artwork? If you ask me, it may be the only Journey CD where the artwork is better than the crap inside of it? All those poppy cornball songs, save 3-4 of them...This album is crap...but the "artwork, ie, picture of a fogged in futuristic radio station is cool..maybe Angie works there?

[The_Noble_Cause]

What is so wrong with ROR's artwork? If you ask me, it may be the only Journey CD where the artwork is better than the crap inside of it?

Agreed.

[jrnyman28]

Jesus..Now we are breaking down artwork? ARTWORK. Fucking artwork. I thought we were talking about 5 guys making music? Now we have some bitching about ...artwork. okay.

By the way Picasso-(Monker)..What is so wrong with ROR's artwork? If you ask me, it may be the only Journey CD where the artwork is better than the crap inside of it? All those poppy cornball songs, save 3-4 of them...This album is crap...but the "artwork, ie, picture of a fogged in futuristic radio station is cool..maybe Angie works there?

Hold on, I brought up artwork. And I do so because I do not feel the artwork on Generations or Red 13 (either cover) stands up to the artwork HH had picked out for Journey CDs. I also agree that ROR's cover was (although very un-Journey-like) pretty frickin' cool. And YES, better than the CD. TBF's and Frontiers' covers were horrible...but that would be two out of 8 covers compared to 2 out of 3 post-Perry covers. And even Arrival wasn't the greatest. It was better on the Japan CD!

Furthermore, Monker, when I mentioned the amount of material, I menat quantity of the Perry-era. 8 CDs worth of material in 8 years compared to 2 1/2 in 7 years. The length of a song has NOTHING to do with the quality of the song. In fact, just like I would prefer a shorter CD with no filler, I prefer a shorter song to one that has crap added to it just to make it longer.

As for the mix, I think every CD of the Perry era "sounds" better than any of the post-Perry era. Of course, in the case of Generations I believe the sound was intentional, but the rest just haven't been 'on'. Why is it that Steve's vocals NEVER sound right on recording? He sounds INCREDIBLE live, but the CDs do NOT do him justice!

[Monker]

My point is that the Perry era is not without its flaws too. The mix/production was not 'perfect', and I don't think it is a given 'fact' that those albums sound any better or worse the the Augeri era.

The Frontiers and ROR covers suck because they completely turned away from the symbolic history Herbie had built for the band. I don't see anything particularly special about a JRNY radio station or an Elmo.

I thought you were talking about the length of albums...it seems everybody says Arrival is too long, and some even say Generations is a couple songs too long. But, if you are talking about years/albums, there is a ten year gap in the 'Perry era' where NO new music was released, except a few bits in the box set.

People look back at that time as if it is some 'standard' of perfection to compare everthing new to. I simply don't believe that to be true. Everything from every era has imperfections, things that could have been done differently. Frontiers could have the soundtrack songs. They could have used Herbie's artwork instead of Perrys. They could have produced the vocals different instead of using RTB. Ross isn't happy with his bass sound prior to Escape. Departure is too short. They could have finshed and put "With a Tear" and "Into Your Arms" on ROR, and cut some crap. A ten year gap of no music. Steve Perry: cut his hair, grew a mustache and then shaved it off! Neal had an afro. Gregg had a monster. They did crappy videos like "After the Fall". Jonathan played a keyboard guitar thing. Ross turned into Randy. They used DRUM MACHINES to write an album!

[ForceInfinity]

Hmmmm...and here I rather fancied the Frontiers artwork personally, though I am not so crazy of ROR or TBF for that matter. I liked Red 13 quite a bit though...