MR

Probably the only REAL problem I had with the band's setlist was the fact they didn't include a single song off of Trial By Fire, at least at the two shows I attended.
There are some great songs off this CD, which I believe to be underrated, overall, on this site. Opinions?

My opinion is that TBF sucks except for Message of Love. When You Love a Woman is ok for what it is, but Journey doesn't need another syrupy love song to add to the set list. I think the members of today's Journey want to avoid a lot of the songs from ROR and TBF because those CDs are not really representative of what Journey is all about. I am sure many do not agree with me, but I am interested in others' opinions.

MMMMMMMmmmmmmm don't know about overlooked. It went Platinum. Arrival, imo was overlooked.

TBF to me is a case of the whole being LESS than the sum of its parts.
I don't like the record as a whole, but still of course listen to it a lot and am fond of a lot of parts on it.

When Augie and Deen first came abord they were playing a lot TBF material. I've heard MOL, WYLAW, Castles Burining, TBF, and Can't Tame The Lion played.

TBF was SHIPPED Platinum.

TBF sounds like 3 solo cds combined.

Too many slow songs.

Unrecognizable artwork for a Journey CD.

Leaves a bad taste in most fan/band member's mouths because of the following events.

OpeningAct wrote:There are some great songs off this CD, which I believe to be underrated, overall, on this site. Opinions?

Easy To Fall, great Neal solo on the outro.

Red13JoePa wrote:MMMMMMMmmmmmmm don't know about overlooked. It went Platinum. Arrival, imo was overlooked.

TBF to me is a case of the whole being LESS than the sum of its parts.
I don't like the record as a whole, but still of course listen to it a lot and am fond of a lot of parts on it.

When Augie and Deen first came abord they were playing a lot TBF material. I've heard MOL, WYLAW, Castles Burining, TBF, and Can't Tame The Lion played.

I wonder if it ever sold platinum.
I agree, it didn't live up to its potential, but still some great stuff here and there. Smitty's best playing on a Journey album imo, for example, One More, Jonathan's only real piano solo on a Journey album, and Neal is always great. I didnt think Perry was great on the rockers.
When I Think Of You was a nice sentiment for Perry's mother but came across as the sappiest song they've ever done, imo.
The '98 set list was incredible I thought, I saw the Lousville KY show, they played MOL, WYLAW (I think) Castles Burning, CTTL(I heard it somewhere that year anyway) and One More.

NoMoreTails wrote:

Red13JoePa wrote:MMMMMMMmmmmmmm don't know about overlooked. It went Platinum. Arrival, imo was overlooked.

TBF to me is a case of the whole being LESS than the sum of its parts.
I don't like the record as a whole, but still of course listen to it a lot and am fond of a lot of parts on it.

When Augie and Deen first came abord they were playing a lot TBF material. I've heard MOL, WYLAW, Castles Burining, TBF, and Can't Tame The Lion played.

I wonder if it ever sold platinum.
I agree, it didn't live up to its potential, but still some great stuff here and there. Smitty's best playing on a Journey album imo, for example, One More, Jonathan's only real piano solo on a Journey album, and Neal is always great. I didnt think Perry was great on the rockers.
When I Think Of You was a nice sentiment for Perry's mother but came across as the sappiest song they've ever done, imo.
The '98 set list was incredible I thought, I saw the Lousville KY show, they played MOL, WYLAW (I think) Castles Burning, CTTL(I heard it somewhere that year anyway) and One More.

Well, I know 28 corrected me up there, but "shipped" platinum is like I said going platinum. That disticntion's made by units shipped, not necessarilly units sold. So TBF went platinum. I don't know if you can get accurate sales figures for records. The RIAA goes by shipped.

And yes, TBF was officially certified double platinum.

WHen did that happen? Not bad work for no tour.....

Red13JoePa wrote:WHen did that happen? Not bad work for no tour.....

That shows you what one moderate "hit" can do for you.

Well, I think it took it something like 5 years to sell the 300,000 copies or so that it needed. I will try again to find the numbers. I could be wrong...

According to the RIAA it's still just Platinum.

http://www.riaa.com/gp/database/search_results.asp

What we need is the Soundscan numbers, and even they aren't that accurate.

NealIsGod wrote:My opinion is that TBF sucks except for Message of Love. When You Love a Woman is ok for what it is, but Journey doesn't need another syrupy love song to add to the set list. I think the members of today's Journey want to avoid a lot of the songs from ROR and TBF because those CDs are not really representative of what Journey is all about. I am sure many do not agree with me, but I am interested in others' opinions.

I agree, NIG. This year Journey wants to rock...and rockin' they are! If people were looking for Perry they wouldn't be showing up at the gate with their tickets already in hand. They come to hear the songs they love, but now they love hearing Steve Augeri sing them!

TBF debuted as a No. 3 on the Billboard charts. It quickly plunged into oblivion because of Perry's antics.

I think TBF is the best album Journey ever made. I really don't understand why some say there were too many ballads. There may be more than Escape or Frontier(which was too hardedged for me overall) but it doesn't seem to me that there were any more than on the pre-Escape albums.

I loved the divesity of the music on TBF. It might not have worked for a band that's trying to establish itself, but for Journey it was perfect. I don't see how any rock vocalist could have done any better than Steve did on Message of Love, One More and Castles Burning. What more could you want?

Easy To Fall is my favorite song on it. It's just outstanding.

ohsherrie wrote:I think TBF is the best album Journey ever made. I really don't understand why some say there were too many ballads. There may be more than Escape or Frontier(which was too hardedged for me overall) but it doesn't seem to me that there were any more than on the pre-Escape albums.

I loved the divesity of the music on TBF. It might not have worked for a band that's trying to establish itself, but for Journey it was perfect. I don't see how any rock vocalist could have done any better than Steve did on Message of Love, One More and Castles Burning. What more could you want?

Easy To Fall is my favorite song on it. It's just outstanding.

I'm willing to bet that a lot of people are jaded towards TBF because they get this new Journey CD, after 10 years, and nothing ever comes of it. No tour, one single, and one video. That's it... after such a long wait.

amaron wrote:

ohsherrie wrote:I think TBF is the best album Journey ever made. I really don't understand why some say there were too many ballads. There may be more than Escape or Frontier(which was too hardedged for me overall) but it doesn't seem to me that there were any more than on the pre-Escape albums.

I loved the divesity of the music on TBF. It might not have worked for a band that's trying to establish itself, but for Journey it was perfect. I don't see how any rock vocalist could have done any better than Steve did on Message of Love, One More and Castles Burning. What more could you want?

Easy To Fall is my favorite song on it. It's just outstanding.

I'm willing to bet that a lot of people are jaded towards TBF because they get this new Journey CD, after 10 years, and nothing ever comes of it. No tour, one single, and one video. That's it... after such a long wait.

Plus it couldn't touch ESC4P3 or Frontiers. And it wasn't as pop as ROR. Just a strange album.

ohsherrie wrote:
What more could you want?

What we have this summer.

ohsherrie wrote:I loved the divesity of the music on TBF

With the exception of the rare eccentric musical flourish (Castles Burning, Colors of the Spirit, Baby I'm a Leavin You) the majority of the songs are soporific ballads. Some are even very good ballads.
But, diversity?
I fail to see it.
By and large, it's an album of pretty decent love songs.

That's what I like about Generations, the brazen diversity of it. Reminds me of the early years before they were creatively pigeon-holed into being a bubble gum ballad machine.

Which songs do you call soporific ballads TNC? I really, seriously don't understand the difference between what you consider a ballad and what you consider a slow tempo rock song.

ohsherrie wrote:Which songs do you call soporific ballads TNC?

"Still She Cries" and to a less egregious extent "Don't be down on Me Baby". I tolerate "DBDOMB", however, "SHC" really tests my patience. It's sorta meandering. In terms of musicianship, I recognize it's faultlessly played by all the guys (with a hauntingly beatiful solo by Jon), but I think this one could've been left off the album.

Y'know, on second thought, it's not even so much that these ballads are bad when looked at separately on their own merits. It's that they are soo densely clustered together on the album. One ballad after another. It's just overkill for me. Similar to how the 2nd half of Generations is almost rock overload for me.

The_Noble_Cause wrote:Y'know, on second thought, it's not even so much that these ballads are bad when looked at separately on their own merits. It's that they are soo densely clustered together on the album. One ballad after another. It's just overkill for me.

BINGO!

I really liked TBF because to me it sounded like Journey growing up and moving forward - it sounded like what a band who made Escape and Frontiers should sound like 10 years later. I thought it showed a maturity that maybe went a little too far (I think that dropping one ballad would fix it - my choice would be Don't Be Down On Me Baby), but I felt like Arrival was trying too at times hard to step back (especially To Be Alive Again).

I'm new, so go easy on me. I like both Steves and have no axe to grind.

Really great post Sponge......

I think the reason they avoided TBF is that there are other less well known songs that both the band and its hardcore fans would rather play+hear, and you can only play so many lesser known songs. No matter what some of you say, "Message of Love" fell flat as an opener in 2001, and that is why it was replaced with "Anyway You Want it" by the end of the tour.

jrnyman28 wrote:

The_Noble_Cause wrote:Y'know, on second thought, it's not even so much that these ballads are bad when looked at separately on their own merits. It's that they are soo densely clustered together on the album. One ballad after another. It's just overkill for me.

BINGO!

I agree as well. To me, Still She Cries is a fantastic but does kinda get clumped together with the rest of ballads.
When it comes to ballads, though, Journey is in a league of their own...

I remember getting ROR and being incredibly disappointed. Fast forward 10 years or so. I was so excited about Journey reuniting and releasing a new CD, Trial By Fire. I bought it, and remember, once again, being incredibly disappointed. I wrote Journey off as part of my past.

Then the incredible news that Perry was no longer in the band. I was shocked, but VERY interested in hearing who they thought could fill those shoes. I went to see Journey in 1999 or 2000, before Arrival was released. I was amazed at Steve Augeri, and the fantastic job he did at replacing Perry.

Then Arrival came out. I remember liking it, but still not quite as much as ESC4P3 or Frontiers. But it blew away ROR and TBF, which was a good sign.

Fast forward to 2005. Steve Augeri seems to have really settled in nicely with the band. Generations was released. Finally, the band is back to the level of their heyday. Excellent songs, strong vocals, and Neal's guitar wizardry on full display. Journey is BACK.

Great post NiG!!

sponge wrote:I really liked TBF because to me it sounded like Journey growing up and moving forward

Well, to me it sounded like Journey growing old. but I understand that a band cannot stay young forever.

sponge wrote:- it sounded like what a band who made Escape and Frontiers should sound like 10 years later. I thought it showed a maturity that maybe went a little too far (I think that dropping one ballad would fix it - my choice would be Don't Be Down On Me Baby),

This is actually what lost me. They sounded like the five guys who made Escape and Frontiers. But they did not sound like the BAND that made them. I hear Neal solo material, Perry solo material, Jon solo material...it just sounded like they threw it all together.

sponge wrote:but I felt like Arrival was trying too at times hard to step back (especially To Be Alive Again).

Absolutely true. Sony and JDK were picking the material that sounded the most like 80's Journey. IMO The stand out tracks were songs like "Kiss Me Softly" and "We Will Meet Again" which reflected a new direction for Journey.

sponge wrote:I'm new, so go easy on me. I like both Steves and have no axe to grind.

Welcome to the board! Have fun.

jrnyman28 wrote:Well, to me it sounded like Journey growing old. but I understand that a band cannot stay young forever.

They sure have seemed to recapture their youth now, haven't they Dave? It's obvious who was making them sound old and tired...

NealIsGod wrote:They sure have seemed to recapture their youth now, haven't they Dave? It's obvious who was making them sound old and tired...

Yes they have! It is hard to believe these guys can rock like that, they are getting up there in age. And I won't lay ALL the blame on Perry for them sounding old. But I do think that the vocalists contributes so much to the sound. I don't think anyone can argue that Perry's strengths were on slower, softer, more emotional, mature songs. Sadly Neal and Jon accepted that...sp the blame lies with them as well.

Hey guys! Is this what's called,"arguing with success?"